IRC log of mediaann on 2010-10-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

10:53:19 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #mediaann

10:53:19 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-mediaann-irc

10:53:25 [wbailer]

zakim, this will be mawg

10:53:25 [Zakim]

ok, wbailer; I see IA_MAWG()7:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes

10:55:22 [shepazu]

shepazu has joined #mediaann

10:56:11 [shepazu]

hi, tmichel, I've sent in my responses, and I can join the MAWG telcon today (in a few minutes, right?)

10:57:20 [shepazu]

tmichel?

10:57:27 [shepazu]

Zakim, code?

10:57:27 [Zakim]

the conference code is 6294 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), shepazu

10:58:03 [Zakim]

IA_MAWG()7:00AM has now started

10:58:10 [Zakim]

+Doug_Schepers

10:58:32 [daniel]

daniel has joined #mediaann

11:00:26 [Zakim]

+joakim

11:00:40 [Zakim]

+wbailer

11:00:55 [joakim]

joakim has joined #mediaann

11:02:01 [joakim]

http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-mediaann-minutes.html

11:02:14 [joakim]

http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-mediaann-minutes.html

11:02:25 [Zakim]

+ +1.201.807.aaaa

11:02:34 [Zakim]

+ +39.538.5.aabb

11:02:46 [wbailer]

scribenick: wbailer

11:02:53 [wbailer]

topic: previous minutes

11:02:58 [wbailer]

accepted

11:03:02 [tmichel]

zakim, who is here

11:03:02 [Zakim]

tmichel, you need to end that query with '?'

11:03:04 [wbailer]

topic: next meeting

11:03:11 [wbailer]

schedules for oct. 12

11:03:16 [tmichel]

zakim, who is here?

11:03:16 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Doug_Schepers, joakim, wbailer, +1.201.807.aaaa, +39.538.5.aabb

11:03:18 [Zakim]

On IRC I see joakim, daniel, shepazu, RRSAgent, Zakim, wbailer, tmichel, trackbot

11:03:29 [wbailer]

chair: joakim

11:03:33 [tmichel]

Hello Doug

11:03:52 [wbailer]

present: doug, thierry, joakim, werner

11:04:21 [wbailer]

regrets: florian, felix

11:04:28 [tmichel]

no one from the API team ...

11:04:30 [wbailer]

present+ daniel (irc)

11:04:37 [tmichel]

too bad we had Doug today ...

11:05:08 [wbailer]

rrsagent, make logs public

11:05:16 [wbailer]

rrsagent, draft minutes

11:05:16 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-mediaann-minutes.html wbailer

11:05:37 [wbailer]

regrets+ wonsuk

11:06:34 [wbailer]

meeting: MAWG Telco

11:06:40 [wbailer]

topic: comments from doug

11:06:43 [shepazu]

http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-mediaont-api-1.0-20100608/

11:06:47 [vero]

vero has joined #mediaann

11:08:01 [wbailer]

doug: make sure to look at right version

11:08:12 [wbailer]

... previous comment still holds for the current version

11:08:41 [wbailer]

... don't think that browser vendors will implement all the 32 interfaces in the spec

11:08:45 [tmichel]

LC comment from Doug

11:08:48 [tmichel]

http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/42786/WD-mediaont-api-1.0-20100608/2406

11:09:15 [wbailer]

doug: approach is very java-like, very verbose, strongly typed

11:09:46 [Zakim]

+ +31.20.598.aacc

11:10:13 [vero]

zakim, +31.20.598.aacc is me

11:10:13 [Zakim]

+vero; got it

11:10:22 [wbailer]

... same solution as proposed at last tpac an even before group started: only 1 or 2 methods only for getting metadata

11:10:32 [wbailer]

... generic methods instead of typed interfaces

11:10:36 [tmichel]

should have only one ot two methods allowing to get the metadata generecly

11:10:44 [wbailer]

present+ veronique

11:12:20 [wbailer]

doug: there is generic getProperty, but different interfaces for return types

11:13:40 [tmichel]

doug: what is the goal of all these interfaces ?

11:14:51 [tmichel]

Doug: I was confused, with earlier draft. But now it seems fine.

11:15:08 [wbailer]

doug: specific return types are not necessary

11:15:42 [wbailer]

... to get data in a generic way will not work with strongly typed return types

11:16:17 [wbailer]

... it's more java and not usual for javascript developers used to json structures

11:16:24 [wbailer]

... could be name value pairs

11:16:49 [wbailer]

... should not be described as interfaces

11:17:00 [wbailer]

... generic json style object should be the goal

11:18:09 [wbailer]

doug: dicussion on filtering results at last tpac

11:18:39 [wbailer]

... eg getting all titles, filter for subtitles, episode titles etc

11:19:07 [wbailer]

... or filter for certain format

11:19:51 [wbailer]

... not sure how to do that with a generic array

11:20:11 [wbailer]

doug: document states its for both client and server side use

11:20:29 [wbailer]

... not clear how it could be used on a server

11:20:49 [wbailer]

joakim: api exposed as web service, to be called from client

11:21:01 [wbailer]

doug: shared ontology is useful

11:21:20 [wbailer]

... not sure if designing for both client and server is good approach

11:21:24 [wbailer]

... focus on client

11:21:37 [wbailer]

... metadata for media file can be remote

11:21:53 [wbailer]

doug: important to clarify what is meant by the interfaces

11:22:35 [wbailer]

... should clarify that people are not expected to implemented multiple different interfaces

11:22:47 [wbailer]

rrsagent, draft minutes

11:22:47 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-mediaann-minutes.html wbailer

11:23:07 [wbailer]

joakim: there are 3 questions:

11:23:12 [wbailer]

1. what is meant by interfaces

11:23:23 [wbailer]

2. less strong typing of return types

11:23:34 [wbailer]

3. filtering results by subproperties

11:24:06 [wbailer]

doug: if you do not talk about interfaces, the question of whether all need to be implemented disappears

11:24:43 [wbailer]

... if application supports ontology, it should be possible to retrieve all the values

11:25:03 [wbailer]

... are there properties that there are more problematic than others?

11:27:10 [wbailer]

joakim: here is an example for title in 3.5.2.1

11:27:23 [wbailer]

... returning a specific subtype of title

11:29:08 [wbailer]

doug: json format as return format would make things easier to understand

11:29:24 [wbailer]

... need to look more closely to this

11:29:34 [wbailer]

joakim: could you propose an example?

11:30:00 [wbailer]

doug: json looks ok, but maybe not with a more complex example

11:30:18 [wbailer]

... makes more sense to have a json style repsonse format

11:34:49 [wbailer]

doug: plan to talk to Cameron McCormack about whether is the correct use of webidl for this purpose

11:35:43 [wbailer]

doug: scenario: mp3 with album title, song title, annotations in id3

11:36:01 [wbailer]

... plus annotations in xmp with the 2 titles

11:36:22 [wbailer]

... expect to get 4 titles, 2 from id3, 2 from xmp

11:36:52 [wbailer]

... expect to be able to filter to just get the xmp

11:37:48 [wbailer]

... in addition, get creation date of metadata and author of metadata

11:40:08 [wbailer]

doug: using same set of properties for meta-metadata seems to be solution

11:40:17 [wbailer]

needs to be described in the document

11:40:37 [wbailer]

doug: each piece has to contain where it comes from

11:41:04 [wbailer]

... either on the high-level structure or as a nested structure

11:41:33 [wbailer]

... on high-level, it would be useful to all titles and authors

11:42:00 [wbailer]

... but to filter by annotation, and not go down to specific properties and then filter

11:42:25 [wbailer]

doug: meta-metadata should be part of return data

11:45:02 [wbailer]

doug: rather than overloading getProperty, return values first and filter results

11:45:08 [Zakim]

-joakim

11:45:15 [wbailer]

... append filters to narrow results

11:45:46 [joakim]

I was thrown out from zakim

11:46:01 [Zakim]

+joakim

11:46:06 [wbailer]

doug: will draw up a few scenarios, and put together what I expect the api to return

11:47:05 [wbailer]

joakim: people at sony ericsson were interested in having provenance of metadata

11:48:14 [wbailer]

doug: would like to talk to browser vendors more deeply, not sure if possible in time

11:48:34 [wbailer]

... currently not sure that all common use case are covered by the api

11:49:54 [wbailer]

doug: will draw up scenario and wg to decide whether its covered by the spec

11:51:38 [wbailer]

thierry: set up specific telecon with api doc editors and doug at a time more convenient for doug

11:52:18 [wbailer]

... possible time tuesday 13:00 utc (15:00 cest)

11:52:43 [Zakim]

-Doug_Schepers

11:53:22 [wbailer]

joakim: anything urgent about LC status?

11:53:41 [wbailer]

thierry: thought about scheduling 2nd LC, in order to manage before tpac

11:53:50 [wbailer]

... seems very difficult to achieve

11:54:04 [wbailer]

... goal should be to finalise docs a tpac

11:54:08 [daniel]

I think we may can not catch up the proposed schedule. There are still so many open issues...

11:54:10 [wbailer]

... to avoid 3rd LC

11:54:45 [wbailer]

thierry: before tpac we should have a good idea what has already implemented from lc comments

11:54:56 [wbailer]

... some commenters want to see editors draft

11:55:41 [wbailer]

rrsagent, draft minutes

11:55:41 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-mediaann-minutes.html wbailer

11:56:08 [tmichel]

LC Comments

11:56:08 [tmichel]

=====

11:56:08 [tmichel]

Agreed: Commenter approved disposition

11:56:08 [tmichel]

******

11:56:08 [tmichel]

-- LC Comment -2389 on Media Ontology spec

11:56:09 [tmichel]

-- LC Comment -2403 on Media Ontology spec

11:56:11 [tmichel]

-- LC Comment -2404 on Media Ontology spec

11:56:13 [tmichel]

-- LC Comment -2410 on Media API spec Jo Rabin

11:56:15 [tmichel]

On going:

11:56:17 [tmichel]

*********

11:56:19 [tmichel]

* LC Comment -2394 on Media API spec (timeless :need to read more-travelling)

11:56:21 [tmichel]

** LC Comment -2419 on Media API spec (need to respond to unsolved issues)

11:56:23 [tmichel]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Sep/0243.html

11:56:25 [tmichel]

** LC Comment -2418 on Media Ontology spec (need to respond to 3 unsolved issues) see to do

11:56:27 [tmichel]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Sep/0242.html

11:56:29 [tmichel]

* LC Comment -2393 on Media Ontology spec (deasagree for speex or VP8 and codec)

11:56:31 [tmichel]

* LC Comment -2395 on Media API spec(deasagree for speex or VP8 and codec)

11:56:33 [tmichel]

* LC Comment -2394 on Media API spec (Doug)

11:56:37 [tmichel]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Oct/0020.html

11:56:39 [tmichel]

Doug kind of agree ... should make this statement more clear.

11:56:41 [tmichel]

LC Comment -2405 on Media Ontology spec (Doug)

11:56:43 [tmichel]

satisfied by our response but would like to see it in the spec.

11:56:45 [tmichel]

Confused by your solution around the "ma" prefix, and would like to

11:56:47 [tmichel]

see it in writing.

11:56:49 [tmichel]

---------

11:56:50 [wbailer]

thierry: we have comments with disagreement for commenters

11:56:51 [tmichel]

No response yet:

11:56:53 [tmichel]

************

11:56:55 [tmichel]

LC Comment -2398 on Media Ontology spec (jose)

11:56:57 [tmichel]

LC Comment -2411 on Media Ontology spec (Karen)

11:56:59 [tmichel]

LC Comment -2414 on Media Ontology spec (Pling)

11:57:08 [wbailer]

... shall we ask person who drafted original repsonse to look into this?

11:59:10 [wbailer]

action: chris to respond to unsolved issues of lc 2419

11:59:11 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-318 - Respond to unsolved issues of lc 2419 [on Chris Poppe - due 2010-10-12].

12:00:01 [wbailer]

action: thierry to draft repsonse to open issues in lc 2395

12:00:01 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-319 - Draft repsonse to open issues in lc 2395 [on Thierry Michel - due 2010-10-12].

12:00:46 [wbailer]

action: veronique to draft response for open issues in lc 2418

12:00:47 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - veronique

12:01:37 [wbailer]

action: thierry to draft repsonse for open issues in lc 2392

12:01:37 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-321 - Draft repsonse for open issues in lc 2392 [on Thierry Michel - due 2010-10-12].

12:02:39 [wbailer]

veronique: update of 2405 needs to be done after syntax update

12:03:02 [wbailer]

regrets+ raphael

12:03:29 [wbailer]

veronique: also update on normative/non-normative is required (action in joakim)

12:04:21 [wbailer]

rrsagent, draft minutes

12:04:21 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-mediaann-minutes.html wbailer

12:04:48 [wbailer]

joakim: next week normal telecon, then api telecom

12:05:04 [wbailer]

action: joakim to send mail to api doc editors to attend call next week

12:05:05 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-322 - Send mail to api doc editors to attend call next week [on Joakim Söderberg - due 2010-10-12].

12:05:17 [wbailer]

action: thierry to book telecon bridge for api call

12:05:17 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-323 - Book telecon bridge for api call [on Thierry Michel - due 2010-10-12].

12:05:23 [Zakim]

-vero

12:05:26 [Zakim]

- +39.538.5.aabb

12:05:27 [Zakim]

- +1.201.807.aaaa

12:05:28 [wbailer]

[adjourned]

12:05:29 [Zakim]

-wbailer

12:05:30 [Zakim]

-joakim

12:05:31 [Zakim]

IA_MAWG()7:00AM has ended

12:05:33 [Zakim]

Attendees were Doug_Schepers, joakim, wbailer, +1.201.807.aaaa, +39.538.5.aabb, vero

12:05:34 [wbailer]

rrsagent, draft minutes

12:05:34 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-mediaann-minutes.html wbailer

13:27:59 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #mediaann

14:04:33 [tmichel]

tmichel has joined #mediaann