09:04:25 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag
09:04:25 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/22-mediafrag-irc
09:04:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
09:04:27 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mediafrag
09:04:29 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
09:04:29 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()5:00AM scheduled to start 4 minutes ago
09:04:30 <trackbot> Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
09:04:30 <trackbot> Date: 22 September 2010
09:04:49 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()5:00AM has now started
09:04:52 <erik> erik has joined #mediafrag
09:04:57 <Zakim> +??P0
09:05:33 <Zakim> + +33.4.93.00.aaaa
09:05:38 <raphael> zakim, aaaa is raphael
09:05:38 <Zakim> +raphael; got it
09:05:56 <raphael> zakim, P0 is Philip
09:05:56 <Zakim> sorry, raphael, I do not recognize a party named 'P0'
09:06:05 <raphael> zakim, +??P0 is Philip
09:06:05 <Zakim> sorry, raphael, I do not recognize a party named '+??P0'
09:06:12 <raphael> zakim, +?P0 is Philip
09:06:12 <Zakim> sorry, raphael, I do not recognize a party named '+?P0'
09:06:45 <Zakim> +Yves
09:08:13 <foolip> foolip has joined #mediafrag
09:08:14 <raphael> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Sep/0051.html
09:08:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/22-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:08:49 <raphael> Chair: Raphael
09:08:59 <raphael> Regrets: Davy, Jack, Silvia
09:09:08 <raphael> Present: Raphael, Yves, Erik (irc), Philip
09:09:18 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes available', raphael.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
09:09:45 <raphael> Topic: 1. Admin
09:10:00 <raphael> Accept the minutes from 15/09
09:10:05 <raphael> http://www.w3.org/2010/09/15-mediafrag-minutes.html
09:10:08 <raphael> +1 ?
09:10:21 <foolip> +1
09:10:22 <erik> +1
09:10:30 <raphael> minutes accepted
09:10:36 <raphael> Topic 2. TPAC
09:11:08 <raphael> TPAC week from Nov 1st till Nov 5th in Lyon France
09:11:31 <Zakim> + +44.329.331.aabb
09:11:32 <raphael> Yves, most likely only on Tuesday
09:12:27 <raphael> Davy will attend the whole weeek
09:12:30 <raphael> s/weeek/week
09:12:41 <raphael> Raphael will attend from Mon till Thu or Fri
09:13:44 <raphael> There are 40$ fees per day, and the fees increase after Oct 22nd
09:13:48 <raphael> ... so please register before
09:15:00 <raphael> ACTION: Yves to book zakim for the 2 days meeting of the group on Mon 1st and Tue 2nd Nov
09:15:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-185 - Book zakim for the 2 days meeting of the group on Mon 1st and Tue 2nd Nov [on Yves Lafon - due 2010-09-29].
09:15:15 <raphael> ACTION-183?
09:15:15 <trackbot> ACTION-183 -- Raphaël Troncy to send reminders to all relevant groups -- due 2010-09-15 -- OPEN
09:15:15 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/183
09:15:40 <raphael> I have not yet done this for IETF, TAG
09:16:23 <erik> q+
09:16:42 <raphael> Topic: 3. MEDIA FRAGMENT EXTENSION:
09:16:51 <raphael> zakim, ack Erik
09:16:51 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
09:18:58 <raphael> Erik: no more news from Michael/Conrad should we be concerned?
09:19:12 <raphael> Raphael: I don't think so ... there are no critical actions from them we depend on
09:19:19 <raphael> ... if they can provide feedback, it's good
09:19:27 <raphael> ... we must progress without waiting
09:20:01 <raphael> Philippe's proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Aug/0005.html
09:20:56 <raphael> Philippe: this is just one part of the problem
09:21:12 <raphael> ... we could include this piece of ABNF in the doc
09:22:27 <raphael> ACTIOn-173?
09:22:27 <trackbot> ACTION-173 -- Yves Lafon to produce the code that will check the grammar of both the URI syntax and the Headers syntax -- due 2010-06-22 -- OPEN
09:22:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/173
09:22:43 <raphael> ISSUE-19?
09:22:43 <trackbot> ISSUE-19 -- Parsing must be defined normatively in the MF spec itself -- open
09:22:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/19
09:23:17 <raphael> Yves: action is still pending
09:23:43 <raphael> ... what I would like to have is what goes in the javascript stack from the browsers when they meet a %encoded URL
09:24:11 <raphael> ... %encoded and html-encoded URL (with ampersand)
09:24:26 <raphael> Erik: is this browser independent?
09:25:22 <foolip> html entities: &amp;
09:25:42 <foolip> percent encoding: %64
09:25:45 <raphael> Philippe: this never reaches javascript, this is handled by the HTML parser
09:26:50 <raphael> ... for percent encoding, yes, the js sees the un-decode strign
09:26:55 <raphael> s/strign/string
09:27:14 <raphael> Yves: could you send to the mailing list the tests you have made so we can test on another browser than Opera
09:27:21 <raphael> Philippe: sure
09:27:50 <raphael> ACTION: philippe to send his list of test cases to the mailing list for understanding how browsers handle %-encodded and html-encoded URL
09:27:50 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - philippe
09:27:55 <foolip> Philip
09:27:57 <raphael> ACTION: philip to send his list of test cases to the mailing list for understanding how browsers handle %-encodded and html-encoded URL
09:27:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-186 - Send his list of test cases to the mailing list for understanding how browsers handle %-encodded and html-encoded URL [on Philip Jägenstedt - due 2010-09-29].
09:28:18 <raphael> Erik: what's happened if browsers manage this inconsistently?
09:29:02 <raphael> Raphael: the related problem deals with extensibility
09:29:12 <raphael> ... of the URI syntax
09:29:53 <raphael> Philip: the whole thing is to have a break into name/value pairs
09:30:10 <raphael> ... and then be relaxed if you don't understand all name/value pairs
09:31:14 <raphael> ... I think we should have a syntax, that mandates what we should have as name/value
09:31:22 <raphael> ... parsers fail for typos
09:31:46 <raphael> ... but implementations should be more relaxed
09:33:21 <raphael> Yves: what bothers me that the ABNF tells both what the syntax is and how to parse it
09:34:04 <raphael> ... the big issue is something that is not a media fragment can be recognized as a Media Fragment
09:34:34 <foolip> "parsers fail for typos" isn't correct
09:34:46 <foolip> a validator would, but not a parser in a browser
09:36:03 <raphael> Yves: we could put an algorithm for the browser
09:37:29 <raphael> Yves: we need to decide first what to do with extensibility
09:37:46 <raphael> ... then I don't see problem of having the algo closed to the ABNF definition
09:37:58 <raphael> ... so Annex D will move up towards the formal grammar
09:39:55 <raphael> Erik: I will not make the parsing instructions normative, they are useful guidelines only
09:42:35 <raphael> Philip: if we need to valid the whole URI before, then parsers will be broken with version 2
09:42:49 <raphael> Yves: yes, but if the new thing means already something you're already into trouble
09:43:14 <silvia> silvia has joined #mediafrag
09:44:34 <silvia> ping?
09:44:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/22-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:45:15 <raphael> Yves: I agrre
09:45:23 <Yves> s/agrre/agree/
09:45:25 <raphael> s/agrre/agree with Philip
09:46:31 <raphael> Raphael: could we just write a normative paragraph that states how the parser should behave ?
09:46:51 <raphael> Erik: a lot of test cases would need to be redefined
09:48:05 <raphael> Yves: I want to have everybody on the phone to agree what we want to do with extensibility
09:48:18 <Zakim> +Silvia
09:48:28 <Zakim> -Silvia
09:50:45 <Yves> I would note that we can try to get agreement on the ML in the meantime
09:52:09 <raphael> ACTION: Philip to start a new thread about extensibility of the Media Fragments in order to get consensus by next week
09:52:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-187 - Start a new thread about extensibility of the Media Fragments in order to get consensus by next week [on Philip Jägenstedt - due 2010-09-29].
09:52:35 <raphael> Tpic: 4. UBLIC COMMENTS:
09:52:45 <raphael> s/UBLIC COMMENTS:/PUBLIC COMMENT
09:52:48 <raphael> ACTON-184?
09:52:54 <raphael> ACTION-184?
09:52:54 <trackbot> ACTION-184 -- Yves Lafon to email Chris the reply on when to send the range header -- due 2010-09-15 -- OPEN
09:52:54 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/184
09:53:02 <raphael> Yves: pending?
09:53:28 <raphael> Topic: 5. AOB?
09:54:08 <erik> have a nice day
09:54:10 <Zakim> -raphael
09:54:12 <Zakim> -Yves
09:54:14 <Zakim> -Philip
09:54:15 <Zakim> -Erik
09:54:17 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()5:00AM has ended
09:54:17 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft minites', raphael.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
09:54:18 <Zakim> Attendees were +33.4.93.00.aaaa, raphael, Yves, Philip, +44.329.331.aabb, Erik, Silvia
09:54:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/22-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:54:32 <raphael> Silvia: will you attend TPAC in Lyon ?
09:54:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/22-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:54:51 <silvia> raphael: no and I think I have un-registered
09:56:21 <raphael> ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
09:56:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/22-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:57:10 <raphael> s/Topic 2./Topic: 2.
09:57:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/22-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
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