15:01:03 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov-xg
15:01:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/17-prov-xg-irc
15:01:05 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:01:05 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov-xg
15:01:07 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 98765
15:01:07 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_PROVXG()11:00AM scheduled to start now
15:01:08 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference
15:01:08 <trackbot> Date: 17 September 2010
15:01:09 <Luc> Luc has joined #prov-xg
15:02:00 <jun> the UK bridge is still not working:(
15:02:18 <Paolo> jun, I m in through the uk briudge...
15:02:20 <Christine> The French bridge is working
15:02:34 <jun> that's why all the services are busy now?:)
15:03:12 <YolandaGil> I had trouble connecting through the US bridge, but got through, so keep trying
15:03:38 <jun> I dialled in by the US bridge
15:03:46 <kai> same here, but now it seems to work
15:04:30 <Luc> the UK bridge is working for me
15:04:52 <kai> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:52 <Zakim> INC_PROVXG()11:00AM has not yet started, kai
15:04:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see Luc, Zakim, RRSAgent, kai, jun, Christine, smiles, SamCoppens, pgroth, Paolo, YolandaGil, Paulo, ssahoo2, trackbot
15:06:38 <YolandaGil> Paulo: could you scribe?  I don't think you have done it before...
15:07:29 <Paulo> Yolanda, I cannot get in :-( I tried both the uk and us bridges
15:07:48 <Luc> q+
15:08:02 <YolandaGil> Paulo: keep trying, you'll get through
15:10:21 <pgroth> Paul: major fact unable to track back
15:10:57 <pgroth> Luc: problem of being able to understand provenance from multiple sites
15:12:04 <pgroth> Luc: trust issues and imperfections are still research but require a basic infrastructure
15:14:33 <YolandaGil> q+
15:14:36 <Paulo> Luc: scalability is a major provenance and we need APIs and models in place to deal with scalability issues
15:15:05 <DeborahMcG> DeborahMcG has joined #prov-xg
15:15:50 <Luc> yes, I agree that writing trust policies will be possible
15:16:19 <Luc> What i meant was that devising a universal measure of trust will be difficult
15:17:18 <Luc> So, what we want is a provenance platform to enable more functionality/solutions
15:17:26 <Paulo> Yolanda: both trust and provenance scalability requires a provenance representation
15:20:16 <Paulo> Yolanda: what is the “minimal” representation of provenance required to create provenance data
15:21:02 <Christine> Would you need time as well? e.g. content on a page may change over time (e.g. wikipedia entries)
15:21:41 <Paulo> Paul: raises the question on how to associate some content to a person
15:23:01 <ssahoo2> Would we term what Yolanda described as "provenance of provenance"?
15:24:06 <Paulo> Yolanda: raises some legal aspects of encoding the content-person provenance including licensing issues 
15:24:13 <Christine> Digital signing?
15:25:16 <Paulo> this distinction between provenance and provenance of provenance is the reason why PML has two major modules, PML-J and PML-P
15:27:10 <Paulo> my phone connection dropped and I cannot  take notes
15:27:22 <jun> q+
15:27:29 <YolandaGil> no problem Paulo, thanks
15:28:18 <YolandaGil> ack Luc
15:28:22 <YolandaGil> ack YolandaGil
15:28:29 <pgroth> phone dropped
15:29:01 <pgroth> back
15:29:57 <Christine> Thank you everyone. My apologies. I need to leave the call.
15:33:52 <YolandaGil> Luc said "devising a universal measure of trust will be difficult" earlier.  I think a universal measure is impossible/unrealistic, all trust measures are context/use dependent by definition
15:35:28 <ssahoo2> "all trust measures are context/use dependent by definition" - I would say the same is true for defining "minimal provenance"
15:36:16 <Luc> difficult was a euphemism!
15:36:17 <jun> q-
15:36:56 <Luc> q+
15:41:50 <Luc> q-
15:42:09 <Paulo> Luc:  a document may have a digital signature but a piece of information in the document may not have a specific signature
15:43:09 <kai> Need to leave earlier today, too. Thanks and bye to all.
15:43:11 <Paulo> Yolanda: asks where provenance information should be placed
15:43:33 <jun> q+
15:43:38 <Luc> The web architecture offers answers to yolanda's point
15:44:26 <jun> q-
15:45:18 <Paulo> Paul: for a document, we may have a supporting provenance document or the provenance can also be added to the document
15:45:46 <Paulo> q+
15:45:50 <Luc> i lost the call
15:46:31 <Luc> back
15:52:38 <ssahoo2> q+
15:53:55 <Luc> I think what Paulo describes is a primer for provenance publishers
15:54:46 <Luc> ... or provenance "processors"
15:55:39 <YolandaGil> ack Paulo
15:55:42 <YolandaGil> ack Satya
15:56:31 <Luc> I think YOlanda didn't use the word minimum but a "small set"
15:58:03 <Luc> So, when we talk about small data model, we talk about what information is exchanged  and not what people keep internally in their systems
15:58:21 <ssahoo2> q-
16:01:56 <Luc> yes
16:01:58 <pgroth> sure
16:02:51 <Luc> bye
16:06:09 <YolandaGil> Yolanda will start a wiki page and include a draft of the recommendations that we discussed on NA scenario
16:06:34 <YolandaGil> rrsagent, set log public
16:06:42 <YolandaGil> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:06:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/17-prov-xg-minutes.html YolandaGil