IRC log of lld on 2010-08-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:45:14 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #lld
13:45:14 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-irc
13:45:29 [antoine]
rrsagent, bookmark
13:45:29 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-irc#T13-45-29
13:45:42 [antoine]
zakim, this will be lld
13:45:42 [Zakim]
ok, antoine; I see INC_LLDXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
13:46:39 [antoine]
Meeting: LLD XG
13:46:57 [antoine]
Chair: antoine
13:48:13 [Jeff]
I think I'm ready, but can't call in on the bridge yet
13:49:03 [Zakim]
INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has now started
13:49:11 [Zakim]
+??P6
13:49:23 [antoine]
zakim, ??P6 is me
13:49:23 [Zakim]
+antoine; got it
13:49:30 [AlexanderH]
AlexanderH has joined #lld
13:49:50 [Zakim]
+??P13
13:50:06 [antoine]
zakim, ??P13
13:50:06 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??P13', antoine
13:50:10 [antoine]
zakim, ??P13 is Jeff
13:50:10 [Zakim]
+Jeff; got it
13:50:38 [antoine]
Scribe: Jeff
13:51:43 [antoine]
Regrets: Bernard, Jodi, Jonathan, Oreste, Guenther
13:51:58 [antoine]
rrsagent, please make record public
13:52:00 [kai]
kai has joined #lld
13:52:02 [emma]
emma has joined #lld
13:52:22 [antoine]
zakim, who is here?
13:52:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see antoine, Jeff
13:52:23 [Zakim]
On IRC I see emma, kai, AlexanderH, RRSAgent, Zakim, antoine, Jeff, michaelp, rsinger, edsu
13:52:31 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
13:52:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html antoine
13:52:46 [Zakim]
+??P18
13:53:04 [antoine]
zakim, ??P18 is kai
13:53:04 [Zakim]
+kai; got it
13:55:33 [aseiler]
aseiler has joined #lld
13:55:37 [tituomin]
tituomin has joined #lld
13:55:59 [Zakim]
+??P14
13:56:07 [AlexanderH]
zakim, ??P14 is AlexanderH
13:56:07 [Zakim]
+AlexanderH; got it
13:57:01 [Zakim]
+emma
13:57:29 [Zakim]
+ +49.221.400.7.aaaa
13:57:50 [kcoyle]
kcoyle has joined #lld
13:57:54 [monica]
monica has joined #lld
13:58:14 [marcia]
marcia has joined #lld
13:58:17 [digikim]
digikim has joined #lld
13:58:21 [antoine]
zakim, aaaa is Anette
13:58:21 [Zakim]
+Anette; got it
13:58:21 [digikim]
hello
13:58:32 [Zakim]
+michaelp
13:58:45 [Zakim]
+monica
13:58:54 [antoine]
zakim, who is here?
13:58:54 [Zakim]
On the phone I see antoine, Jeff, kai, AlexanderH, emma, Anette, michaelp, monica
13:58:56 [Zakim]
On IRC I see digikim, marcia, monica, kcoyle, tituomin, aseiler, emma, kai, AlexanderH, RRSAgent, Zakim, antoine, Jeff, michaelp, rsinger, edsu
13:58:58 [GordonD]
GordonD has joined #lld
13:59:19 [aseiler]
zakim, aseiler is really me
13:59:19 [Zakim]
sorry, aseiler, I do not recognize a party named 'aseiler'
13:59:19 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
13:59:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html antoine
13:59:32 [antoine]
zakim, Anette is aseiler
13:59:32 [Zakim]
+aseiler; got it
13:59:41 [digikim]
hmm, conference code not valid
13:59:46 [Zakim]
+rsinger
13:59:47 [TomB]
TomB has joined #lld
13:59:59 [Zakim]
+??P0
14:00:13 [antoine]
zakim, ??P0 is GordonD
14:00:13 [Zakim]
+GordonD; got it
14:00:29 [Zakim]
+??P26
14:00:31 [aseiler]
zakim, mute me
14:00:31 [Zakim]
aseiler should now be muted
14:00:43 [rsinger]
zakim, mute me
14:00:43 [Zakim]
rsinger should now be muted
14:01:00 [antoine]
zakim, ??P26 is digikim
14:01:00 [Zakim]
+digikim; got it
14:01:07 [fsasaki]
fsasaki has joined #lld
14:01:08 [Zakim]
+ +1.330.289.aabb
14:01:15 [Andras]
Andras has joined #lld
14:01:25 [antoine]
zakim, aabb is marcia
14:01:25 [Zakim]
+marcia; got it
14:01:37 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:01:43 [Zakim]
+[LC]
14:01:44 [edsu]
Zakim, [LC] is edsu
14:01:44 [Zakim]
+edsu; got it
14:01:52 [TomB]
zakim, IPcaller is TomB
14:01:52 [Zakim]
+TomB; got it
14:01:57 [Zakim]
+??P28
14:02:05 [Zakim]
+??P30
14:02:07 [Zakim]
+ +1.361.279.aacc
14:02:25 [antoine]
zakim, aacc is karen
14:02:35 [jphipps]
jphipps has joined #lld
14:02:37 [TomB]
zakim, ??p30 is andras
14:02:39 [Zakim]
+karen; got it
14:03:06 [Zakim]
+andras; got it
14:03:30 [Zakim]
+jon
14:04:02 [Jeff]
Topic: Administrative
14:04:36 [antoine]
zakim, unmute aseiler
14:04:36 [Zakim]
aseiler should no longer be muted
14:04:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html TomB
14:05:20 [aseiler]
zakim, mute me
14:05:20 [Zakim]
aseiler should now be muted
14:05:30 [rayd]
rayd has joined #lld
14:05:47 [GordonD]
minutes ok with me
14:06:06 [Jeff]
RESOLVED: accept previous telecon minutexs
14:06:17 [Jeff]
s/minutesx/minutes/
14:06:28 [Zakim]
+[LC]
14:06:39 [Jeff]
Topic: F2F meetings
14:06:42 [antoine]
zakim, LC is rayd
14:06:42 [Zakim]
+rayd; got it
14:06:51 [digikim]
what is the URL of the agenda?
14:07:12 [emma]
agenda : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Aug/0089.html
14:07:20 [digikim]
thanks
14:07:45 [whalb]
whalb has joined #lld
14:07:48 [antoine]
zakim, who is here?
14:07:49 [Zakim]
On the phone I see antoine, Jeff, kai, AlexanderH, emma, aseiler (muted), michaelp (muted), monica (muted), rsinger (muted), GordonD (muted), digikim, marcia, TomB, edsu, Felix
14:07:54 [Zakim]
... (muted), andras, karen, jon, rayd
14:07:56 [Zakim]
On IRC I see whalb, rayd, jphipps, Andras, fsasaki, TomB, GordonD, digikim, marcia, monica, kcoyle, tituomin, aseiler, emma, kai, AlexanderH, RRSAgent, Zakim, antoine, Jeff,
14:07:58 [Zakim]
... michaelp, rsinger, edsu
14:08:01 [Jeff]
Tom: Joint meeting of LLD XG and DCMI architecture group
14:09:08 [Jeff]
... Discuss application profiles and how they can be applied in both groups
14:11:12 [Jeff]
... Look for patterns in application profiles and how they could be applied in the Linked Data context
14:13:32 [Zakim]
-michaelp
14:15:03 [emma]
F2F meetings : http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F
14:15:07 [Jeff]
Saturday and Sunday, 23 and 24 October - confirmed
14:15:07 [Jeff]
Face-to-face meeting of LLD XG
14:16:12 [GordonD]
I will definitely be attending the F2F meeting in Pittsburgh
14:16:22 [Jeff]
ACTION: verify possible attendence
14:16:25 [rsinger]
I will definitely not be, unfortunately
14:16:28 [kai]
People can edit their states, just changed my to stron yes :-)
14:17:54 [Jeff]
s/verify possible attendence/Use wiki page to indicate whether they are attending or not/
14:18:31 [Jeff]
Colone F2F
14:18:37 [TomB]
s-attending or not=attending or not - at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F=
14:18:47 [antoine]
regrets+ jneuchim
14:19:02 [TomB]
s=attending or not=attending or not - at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F=
14:19:13 [Jeff]
Topic: Use cases and case studies
14:19:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html TomB
14:19:27 [GordonD]
doodle poll link for cologne is not working
14:19:59 [aseiler]
doodle poll for cologne: http://www.doodle.com/tdxwapytnxrsm4tm
14:20:06 [TomB]
q+
14:20:23 [antoine]
zakim, ack TomB
14:20:23 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:20:31 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'where are we'
14:21:51 [Jeff]
Deadline was yesterday for submitting use cases
14:21:57 [Jeff]
8 use cases submitted
14:22:01 [TomB]
scribenick: Jeff
14:23:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html fsasaki
14:24:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html fsasaki
14:25:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html fsasaki
14:25:30 [antoine]
ACTION: Everyone to create use cases on the "use case note" page http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseNotes. Not more than 2 persons per case. Deadline august 25. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html#action04]
14:25:32 [antoine]
--DONE
14:26:21 [mhausenblas]
mhausenblas has joined #lld
14:26:30 [fsasaki]
present: AlexanderH Andras Anette Felix GordonD Jeff LC TomB antoine aseiler digikim edsu emma fsasaki jon jphipps kai karen kcoyle marcia michaelp monica rayd rsinger tituomin whalb
14:26:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html fsasaki
14:26:35 [Jeff]
Review of individual use cases:
14:27:30 [Jeff]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Authority_Data_Enrichment
14:27:59 [Jeff]
Bibliographic Network
14:27:59 [Jeff]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Bibliographic_Network
14:28:29 [matolat]
matolat has joined #lld
14:28:51 [rsinger]
there's tod
14:29:08 [antoine]
Jeff: I'm not finished
14:29:15 [antoine]
... but I like the template
14:29:21 [rsinger]
if'n you want him to talk about the use case
14:29:45 [Zakim]
-GordonD
14:29:46 [matolat]
sorry I can't join the ca;;
14:29:48 [matolat]
call
14:30:01 [rsinger]
well, nm then :)
14:31:07 [Zakim]
+??P0
14:31:08 [antoine]
Jeff: I wouldn't change the templates on the section I started
14:31:32 [antoine]
Kai: it's not a problem that youcouldn't use a section,it's just that you're not there yet
14:31:36 [GordonD]
zakim, ??P90 is me
14:31:36 [Zakim]
sorry, GordonD, I do not recognize a party named '??P90'
14:31:53 [rsinger]
no
14:32:00 [Jeff]
Jeff: The template worked well for me so far. My use case is incomplete
14:32:18 [Jeff]
Open Library Data
14:32:19 [Jeff]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Open_Library_Data
14:33:10 [Jeff]
Karen: Not sure how linked data applied to use case and how topics could be applied
14:33:25 [rsinger]
btw, i have a copy of the OL data in a platform store (therefore, has sparql): http://api.talis.com/stores/openlibrary
14:33:34 [Jeff]
AlexanderH: 2 use cases
14:34:15 [Zakim]
-karen
14:35:06 [Jeff]
... who are the actors? Use OL as one provider for such data
14:35:23 [emma]
q+ to comment on the name of the UC
14:35:43 [Jeff]
karen: OL is a real use case
14:37:14 [Jeff]
Karen: we don't have applications that use Linked Data
14:38:09 [Jeff]
AlexanderH: Who is the user and what are the interactions?
14:38:50 [Jeff]
Alexander: The goal isn't to have Linked Data
14:39:06 [Jeff]
... What is the problem and why is Linked Data the best solution?
14:39:42 [Jeff]
... Linked Data is a means, not an ends
14:40:27 [Jeff]
... Linked Data can be used to express requirements for use cases
14:40:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html TomB
14:41:43 [Jeff]
antoine: can use case be adapted to accommodate AnelxanderH's perspective?
14:41:48 [TomB]
s/Use wiki page to/Potential attendees in Pittsburgh to use wiki page to/
14:41:49 [AlexanderH]
wasn't me speaking it was Kai
14:42:18 [Jeff]
kcoyle: Kai's view seems like a different use case
14:42:22 [emma]
s/AlexanderH/Kai
14:42:40 [emma]
s/Alexander/Kai
14:43:11 [Jeff]
Kai: Assumes use cases come from a user's perspective
14:43:21 [Zakim]
-monica
14:43:34 [edsu]
q+ to support kai
14:43:55 [Zakim]
-marcia
14:44:48 [kai]
zakim, who is noisy?
14:44:53 [Jeff]
antoine: use case seems similar to http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Subject_Search
14:44:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html fsasaki
14:44:59 [Zakim]
kai, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: TomB (20%)
14:45:17 [marcia]
＊*somehow my line was dropped
14:45:19 [Zakim]
+monica
14:46:21 [Zakim]
+marcia
14:46:24 [AlexanderH]
+1 for naming the UC by the use case scenario
14:46:28 [antoine]
zakim, ack emma
14:46:28 [Zakim]
emma, you wanted to comment on the name of the UC
14:46:30 [Zakim]
I see edsu on the speaker queue
14:46:40 [Jeff]
emma: use cases should describe user views rather than describing project
14:46:53 [antoine]
zakim, ack edsu
14:46:53 [Zakim]
edsu, you wanted to support kai
14:46:55 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:47:37 [Jeff]
edsu: concrete examples are important
14:47:44 [GordonD]
I'm expecting we will combine some use cases, and split others - but user should be the focus
14:47:54 [AlexanderH]
q+
14:48:06 [antoine]
zakim, ack AlexanderH
14:48:06 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:48:26 [jphipps]
q+ to support Karen's notion that there should be multiple use cases
14:48:41 [antoine]
zakim, ack jphipps
14:48:41 [Zakim]
jphipps, you wanted to support Karen's notion that there should be multiple use cases
14:48:43 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:49:05 [kai]
zalim, who is making noise?
14:49:12 [Jeff]
jphipps: There is value in publishing the data without knowing how it will be used
14:49:26 [emma]
Q+ tu use "inteded audience to record UC which UC are producer-oriented
14:49:42 [antoine]
zakim, ack emma
14:49:44 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:50:00 [GordonD]
users are professional intermediaries. service developers, content providers, and ... end-users
14:50:14 [kcoyle]
+1
14:50:27 [Jeff]
emma: differentiate target audience in use case between user and producers
14:50:46 [edsu]
sometimes i even think users are computer programs :)
14:50:53 [GordonD]
+1
14:51:15 [Zakim]
+michaelp
14:51:15 [fsasaki]
@ edsu: in some cases they are, see the "language technology" use case
14:51:23 [jphipps]
+1 edsu
14:51:26 [edsu]
fsasaki++
14:51:35 [fsasaki]
:)
14:51:45 [TomB]
+1 EdSu - and making this point explicit
14:52:05 [Jeff]
Kai: OK to indicate the target audience in the use case with focus on producer vs consumer
14:52:33 [AlexanderH]
q+
14:52:38 [Jeff]
... but a consumer perspective provides greater insight why Linked Data is important
14:53:22 [antoine]
zakim, ack AlexanderH
14:53:22 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:53:39 [Jeff]
antoine: producer-oriented use cases raises interesting problems that a user-perspective may miss
14:54:43 [GordonD]
I assume linked-data refers to architectures, applications, etc. as well as content (that is, instance triples and resorces with URIs)
14:54:51 [emma]
q+
14:56:23 [rsinger]
"You don't work on the goal you want, you work on the goal you have"
14:57:02 [Jeff]
edsu: why should the OL data base exposed as Linked Data?
14:57:47 [Jeff]
kcoyle: the stated goal is to make the data as useful as possible
14:57:52 [Zakim]
-michaelp
14:58:32 [Jeff]
kai: change the goal section and generalize the use case name
14:58:33 [rsinger]
Would it make more sense to define the goal as "identify the resources and identifiers in the Open Library since it is an aggregate of multiple sources of data"?
14:59:01 [Jeff]
ACTION: kai will try to update the use case
15:00:57 [Zakim]
-edsu
15:01:01 [Jeff]
Topic: LLD Topic list
15:01:11 [Zakim]
-jon
15:01:41 [antoine]
ACTION: Everyone to elaborate on topics in the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action08]
15:01:44 [antoine]
--CONTINUES
15:01:58 [Jeff]
Topic: Other
15:02:22 [Jeff]
ACTION: Marcia to post I2 comments to LLD list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/19-lld-minutes.html#action02]
15:03:14 [kcoyle]
yes, she did
15:03:26 [antoine]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Aug/0074.html
15:03:35 [Jeff]
--done
15:04:02 [Zakim]
-marcia
15:04:21 [Jeff]
New wiki pages on Library data resources and terminology (Karen)
15:04:21 [Jeff]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_Data_Resources
15:04:21 [Jeff]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Library_terminology_informally_explained
15:04:45 [Jeff]
karen: feel free to add to these
15:05:15 [kcoyle]
angelique music
15:05:18 [antoine]
ACTION: Gordon will prepare something on RDA, FRBR etc. for discussion in Sept. agenda [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html#action06]
15:05:21 [antoine]
--CONTINUES
15:05:28 [kcoyle]
oops,rong keyboard
15:05:54 [Zakim]
-GordonD
15:05:56 [Zakim]
-andras
15:06:02 [Zakim]
-Felix
15:06:04 [Zakim]
-kai
15:06:04 [Zakim]
-rsinger
15:06:04 [Jeff]
[adjourned]
15:06:06 [Zakim]
-monica
15:06:13 [Zakim]
-AlexanderH
15:06:16 [Zakim]
-aseiler
15:06:24 [Zakim]
-digikim
15:06:35 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:06:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html antoine
15:06:43 [Zakim]
-rayd
15:08:13 [emma]
s/kai will try to update the use case/ kai will try to update Karen's use case
15:08:17 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:08:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html antoine
15:09:03 [antoine]
zakim, list attendees
15:09:03 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been antoine, Jeff, kai, AlexanderH, emma, +49.221.400.7.aaaa, michaelp, monica, aseiler, rsinger, GordonD, digikim, +1.330.289.aabb, marcia,
15:09:07 [Zakim]
... edsu, TomB, Felix, +1.361.279.aacc, karen, andras, jon, rayd
15:09:37 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:09:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html antoine
15:10:20 [antoine]
zakim, bye
15:10:20 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were antoine, Jeff, kai, AlexanderH, emma, +49.221.400.7.aaaa, michaelp, monica, aseiler, rsinger, GordonD, digikim, +1.330.289.aabb,
15:10:20 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #lld
15:10:23 [Zakim]
... marcia, edsu, TomB, Felix, +1.361.279.aacc, karen, andras, jon, rayd
15:10:39 [antoine]
rrsagent, bye
15:10:39 [RRSAgent]
I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-actions.rdf :
15:10:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: verify possible attendence [1]
15:10:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-irc#T14-16-22
15:10:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Everyone to create use cases on the "use case note" page http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseNotes. Not more than 2 persons per case. Deadline august 25. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html#action04] [2]
15:10:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-irc#T14-25-30
15:10:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: kai will try to update the use case [3]
15:10:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-irc#T14-59-01
15:10:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Everyone to elaborate on topics in the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action08] [4]
15:10:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-irc#T15-01-41
15:10:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Marcia to post I2 comments to LLD list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/19-lld-minutes.html#action02] [5]
15:10:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-irc#T15-02-22
15:10:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Gordon will prepare something on RDA, FRBR etc. for discussion in Sept. agenda [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html#action06] [6]
15:10:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-irc#T15-05-18