13:46:24 RRSAgent has joined #lld 13:46:24 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-lld-irc 13:46:46 zakim, this will be LLD 13:46:46 ok, emma; I see INC_LLDXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes 13:48:27 rrsagent, bookmark 13:48:27 See http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-lld-irc#T13-48-27 13:49:46 rrsagent, please make record public 13:50:28 Meeting : LLD XG 13:50:39 edsu has joined #lld 13:50:42 Chair : Emmanuelle 13:51:12 Agenda : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Jul/0080.html 13:51:18 AlexanderH has joined #lld 13:51:29 Previous minutes : http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html 13:52:13 Regrets : Tom, Ray, Ross, Dickson, (Bernard, Wolfgang, Kim, Oreste, Jonathan, Martin, Glen) 13:52:28 Regrets+ : Jodi, Nicolas 13:52:47 scribe : Marcia 13:53:01 scribenick: marcia 13:53:52 antoine has joined #lld 13:54:02 INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has now started 13:54:08 + +1.614.764.aaaa 13:54:37 zakim, aaaa is me 13:54:37 +jeff; got it 13:55:00 + +33.1.53.79.aabb 13:55:12 +[IPcaller] 13:55:25 zakim, IPCaller is me 13:55:25 +antoine; got it 13:55:49 kai has joined #lld 13:55:58 + +44.789.798.aacc 13:56:07 Zakim: aacc is me 13:56:09 zakim, aac is william 13:56:09 sorry, antoine, I do not recognize a party named 'aac' 13:56:19 monica has joined #lld 13:56:22 zakim, aacc is ww 13:56:22 +ww; got it 13:56:53 zakim, ww is @ww 13:56:53 +@ww; got it 13:57:00 zakim, who is here? 13:57:00 On the phone I see jeff, emma, antoine, @ww 13:57:01 On IRC I see monica, kai, antoine, AlexanderH, edsu, RRSAgent, Zakim, jneubert, emma, marcia, jeff, ww 13:57:11 +??P10 13:57:17 kcoyle has joined #lld 13:57:32 zakim, P10 is kai 13:57:32 sorry, antoine, I do not recognize a party named 'P10' 13:57:35 GordonD has joined #lld 13:57:37 zakim, ??P10 is me. 13:57:37 +kai; got it 13:57:38 zakim, ??P10 is kai 13:57:41 I already had ??P10 as kai, antoine 13:57:50 faster ;-) 13:57:56 +[IPcaller] 13:58:17 zakim, IPcaller is AlexanderH 13:58:18 + +44.194.346.aadd 13:58:18 +AlexanderH; got it 13:58:33 how do i call in over ip? 13:58:39 zakim, aadd is monica 13:58:39 +monica; got it 13:58:47 michaelp has joined #lld 13:58:50 that's right thanks Antoine 13:58:54 zakim, mute me 13:58:54 sorry, ww, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 13:58:55 + +1.334.940.aaee 13:59:04 zakim, aacc is me 13:59:04 sorry, ww, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc' 13:59:14 zakim, mute william 13:59:14 sorry, ww, I do not know which phone connection belongs to william 13:59:20 zakim, aaee is jneubert 13:59:20 +jneubert; got it 13:59:42 zakim mute me 13:59:45 +jeff.a 14:00:10 me zakim, mute me 14:00:19 zakim, who is here 14:00:19 ww, you need to end that query with '?' 14:00:20 +??P15 14:00:28 zakim, who is here? 14:00:28 On the phone I see jeff (muted), emma, antoine, @ww, kai, AlexanderH, monica, jneubert, michaelp, ??P15 14:00:30 On IRC I see michaelp, GordonD, kcoyle, monica, kai, antoine, AlexanderH, edsu, RRSAgent, Zakim, jneubert, emma, marcia, jeff, ww 14:00:36 Andras has joined #lld 14:00:37 zakim, mute @ww 14:00:37 @ww should now be muted 14:00:42 zakim, ??P15 is kcoyle 14:00:42 +kcoyle; got it 14:01:19 +[LC] 14:01:19 b_vatant has joined #lld 14:01:23 Zakim, LC is edsu 14:01:23 +edsu; got it 14:01:48 -@ww 14:01:53 Hi all - will attend on IRC only today 14:02:10 +@ww 14:02:12 rrsagent, please make record public 14:02:17 + +1.361.279.aaff 14:02:38 zakim, @ww is ww 14:02:38 +ww; got it 14:02:44 zakim, mute me 14:02:44 ww should now be muted 14:02:45 Zakim, aaff is Andras 14:02:46 +Andras; got it 14:02:46 +??P19 14:03:00 fumi has joined #lld 14:03:04 zakim, ??P19 is GordonD 14:03:04 +GordonD; got it 14:03:13 zakim, P19 is GordonD 14:03:13 sorry, GordonD, I do not recognize a party named 'P19' 14:03:17 rrsagent, please make record public 14:03:20 + +1.330.672.aagg 14:03:25 zakim, who is talking? 14:03:35 zakim, aagg is marcia 14:03:35 +marcia; got it 14:03:35 zakim, ??P19 is GordonD 14:03:36 I already had ??P19 as GordonD, GordonD 14:03:39 ww, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: emma (25%), antoine (61%), +1.330.672.aagg (74%) 14:03:48 xakim, mute me 14:03:59 zakim, mute me 14:03:59 GordonD should now be muted 14:04:21 rrsagent, please draft minutes 14:04:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html antoine 14:05:10 Topic: Administrative -- Minutes of previous telecon http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html 14:05:17 +??P29 14:05:53 zakim, ??P29 isfumi 14:05:53 I don't understand '??P29 isfumi', antoine 14:05:57 zakim, ??P29 is fumi 14:05:57 +fumi; got it 14:06:07 emma: any objection? 14:06:21 RESOLVED 14:06:44 -- F2F meetings Pittsburgh 23 and 24 October, confirmed http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F 14:06:55 Confirmed 14:07:01 gneher has joined #lld 14:07:28 joint meeting on Friday afternoon. Check on the conference program 14:07:29 -> http://www.asis.org/Conferences/DC2010/program-sessions.html#jointmeeting 14:07:39 joint meeting with DCMI architecture 14:07:39 A joint meeting with DCMI Architecture Forum WG has been scheduled on Friday 22nd afternoon http://www.asis.org/Conferences/DC2010/program-sessions.html#jointmeeting 14:07:53 Application Profiles for Linked Data: Models & Requirements 14:08:24 +??P33 14:09:03 no questions 14:09:11 who is typing loudly? 14:09:17 potential meeting in Germany 14:09:20 Possible meeting jointly to SWBIB 2010 (Cologne, 29 and 30 November) ? See Joachim's mail : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Jul/0066.html “Semantic Web in Bibliotheken” = ” Semantic Web in Libraries“ http://swib.org/swib10/e_call-for-participation.html 14:09:44 asking people to take the Doodle poll 14:10:05 in addition to the f2f meeting in Pittsburgh 14:10:21 see how many people would be interested 14:10:33 i will be there anyway, so +1 for the meeting 14:10:36 then we will decide 14:10:42 q+ to ask jneubert for details? 14:11:03 antoine, you wanted to ask jneubert for details? 14:11:24 ask for details on the Doodle poll before 14:11:42 get details before the conference time, decide the day and time 14:12:28 jnerubert: maybe part of the coming event, 14:12:29 matolat has joined #lld 14:12:45 ++ beer and chitchat 14:12:49 s/jnerubert/jneubert 14:12:50 beer+chitchat++ 14:12:52 depends on who will be, either afternoon or evening 14:12:58 cool! 14:12:58 +1 for the beer, but maybe we can do both :-) 14:13:06 zakim, unmute me 14:13:06 ww should no longer be muted 14:13:13 +michaelp.a 14:13:36 http://wikis.fu-berlin.de/display/fcrc/Home 14:13:43 ??? OCtober possible Berlin meeting 14:14:09 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/LLD/Events 14:14:16 emma: we have a wiki page for the events, please paste there. 14:14:18 The 3rd Free Culture Research Conference, 7-9 October in Berlin 14:14:25 zakim, michaelp.a is matolat 14:14:25 +matolat; got it 14:14:31 zakim, mute me 14:14:33 ww should now be muted 14:14:58 -- Summer teleconferences schedule 2010-08-19 - Tom 2010-08-26 - Antoine Weekly calls will resume in September. 14:15:14 ACTION: antoine to check cross linking between the two wikis [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action01] DONE 14:15:45 Topic: Use cases and case studies http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCases 14:15:56 Emma: open discussion 14:16:24 ACTION: stu, alexander, kai and emma to suggest another version of the template. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action05] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Jul/0047.html 14:16:41 --DONE 14:17:23 kai: ask if there are any questions about the template, tried to popularize with data from use cases, tried to recognize weaknesses and adapt 14:17:39 maybe have to rework some things, if not, start to collect use cases 14:17:53 emma: any objection? 14:18:19 kai: topic dimensions and topics to be discussed 14:18:22 i think, the templates are very good and will be very helpful. thanks to kai et al. ! 14:18:26 +1 let's get on with it 14:18:35 I was happy with the changes made after my comments! 14:18:39 emma: maybe we can decide today 14:19:10 ACTION: Alexander, kai, emma to populate the template for use cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action03] -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Authority_Data_Enrichment -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Digital_Preservation 14:19:50 -- DONE 14:19:57 alexander: regarding authority, maybe populate a kind of general use case, find a specific use case, consider the enrichment of existing authority records 14:20:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html antoine 14:20:11 alexander: background and technology not necessary 14:20:11 -jneubert 14:20:38 alexander: try to pick out some limitations, as well as try to relay to other use cases 14:20:39 +jneubert 14:21:04 -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Digital_Preservation 14:21:16 -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Authority_Data_Enrichment -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Digital_Preservation 14:21:41 emma: some feedback on use cases 14:22:26 +q 14:22:29 antoine: they seemed to be OK. I'd lile to create one for myself 14:22:32 looks good to me 14:22:39 s/lile/like 14:22:48 Kai: wonder to find what kinds problem we have 14:22:58 granuarity of our user cases 14:23:09 richment of user cases 14:23:52 conclusion : difficul to concentrate on very specific user cases, 14:24:05 bettr to have broader point of views 14:24:20 q+ to ask whether this is captured in the motivation part 14:24:33 no, extactly the other way round, marcia ;-) 14:24:46 emma: decide how we are going to make more use case 14:24:50 antoine, you wanted to ask whether this is captured in the motivation part 14:25:07 its better to focus on a very specific use case than on a broad scenario 14:25:16 antoine: kai, please write one statement 14:25:53 antoine: kei, please answer the question about what you just said 14:25:53 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UCRationale 14:26:11 kau: to rethink what we did 14:26:26 kai: its better to focus on a very specific use case than on a broad scenario 14:26:52 emma: Use cases at ALA meeting, June 2010 -> http://kcoyle.net/lld-ala.html 14:27:14 how to integrate these issues to the user cases 14:27:21 anyone has information on this? 14:27:41 ed: there were several groups and I participated in one 14:28:02 ed: we talked about Use Cases Discussion Group 14:28:27 how data set are there now and be used, e.g., OCLC case 14:28:53 what people are doing with the data, monitor what they do, 14:29:16 it was only clear of where they were from but not what they do, 14:29:23 that was the interesting part 14:30:23 not all of the discussions there would necessarily turn into use cases, but we can look at them to see what we could derive 14:30:34 ed: OCLC has people involved 14:30:43 Karen was there, 14:31:41 ed: discussion about RDFa, for making library data more accessable to Facebook, Google search, etc. Another interesting discussion 14:31:46 Add ideas of use cases http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseNotes 14:31:57 I wondered if this would make an interesting use case http://efoundations.typepad.com/efoundations/2010/07/finding-ebooks.html 14:32:06 RDFa/Richsnippets/SEO ++ 14:32:29 emma: we need to decide: -- Choice between filling the use cases ourselves & sending out a call 14:32:46 emma: we don't have many volunteers 14:32:48 couldn't we do both? 14:32:50 first ourselve 14:33:00 ww+ 14:33:04 emma: yes, we could start with ourselves 14:33:05 +1 ourselves 14:33:14 +1 for ourselves for the already existing ideas for use cases 14:33:17 -> Poll for volunteers: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCases#Poll_for_volunteers 14:33:20 +1 ourselves 14:33:25 +1 ourselves 14:33:35 see how many we get ourselves 14:33:35 +1 ourselves first 14:33:38 =more examples = easier for others to follow with further use cases 14:33:39 +1 14:33:46 +1 start ourselves 14:34:01 +1 14:34:16 timescale? 14:34:21 emma: use the use case on the wiki 14:34:23 +1 start ourselves, then solicit other suggestions 14:34:37 would it be ok to work on use case with collaborators from outside the working group? 14:34:44 emma: when the use cases are due 14:34:54 @monica: i think so 14:35:04 +1 14:35:13 q+ for limitation of editors per case 14:35:25 antoine, you wanted to discuss limitation of editors per case 14:36:04 antoine: suggestion of volunteering to take the use cases, suggests retrieving the number of volunteers...don't have more than two people on same use case 14:36:21 antoine: that way they won't wonder if ten people are going to join 14:36:28 s/retrieving/limiting 14:37:04 ???: it makes sense to follow the example section...make it part of the cases section.. 14:37:41 ???: link all the use cases in the section of the use case page 14:38:10 i think it was jneubert 14:38:19 s/???/jneubert 14:38:47 emma: action 14:40:12 ACTION jneubert willing to take an action on usecase 14:40:24 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseNotes 14:41:04 antoine : deadline... 14:41:29 emma: first get some use cases ourselves, September... 14:41:50 antoine: not the next telecon but the one after is the deadline? 14:41:53 +1 August for ourselves then September for others 14:41:56 emma: or the next one 14:42:05 +1 august 14:42:11 antoine: deadline august 26th 14:42:27 one day before the telecon 14:42:42 this will allow feedback from ifla and possibly rda 14:42:42 emma: august 25 deadline 14:42:45 ACTION: everyone to create use cases on the "use case note" page http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseNotes . Not more than 2 persons per case. Deadline august 25. 14:43:15 Topic: Topic list http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Topics 14:43:18 topic topic :-) 14:43:43 emma: ACTION: everyone to elaborate on topics in the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action08] Karen is editor of the topics. 14:43:48 DONE 14:44:07 -ww 14:44:19 +1 to continue to develop topics 14:44:20 +ww 14:44:25 zakim, mute me 14:44:25 ww should now be muted 14:44:28 emma: use cases should relate to the topics 14:44:38 q+ the discussion on the topics is happening also on the Discussion page of the wiki 14:45:12 antonine: want to point to the discussion page on the topic page 14:45:26 -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Talk:Topics 14:46:04 emma: July about domain modling, FRBR... question about if the description relly relate to the 14:46:13 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html antoine 14:46:20 emma: on the mailing list there are discussions 14:46:32 karen: not sure what point to make 14:47:10 Jeff: lots of topics getting to certain concerns, small group carry on the discussions. need balance between small group and everyboday 14:47:35 I think raising general awareness on issues is good! 14:47:46 emma: relate the discussion to the topics 14:47:58 wondering how the topics will be related to use cases 14:48:20 q+ on community list 14:48:22 karen: maybe we can base on the topic list, do not get into the details. 14:48:40 karen: initially need to remember to put them on the topic list 14:48:55 If someone wants to take them on as a UC, they would then be there. 14:48:55 emma: relate to the topic list, 14:49:02 antoine, you wanted to comment on community list 14:49:19 antoine: discussions, as long as on the community list, all are relavant 14:49:40 one of the topics was on Open Library, certainly relevant 14:49:42 the openbiblio mailing list is available for discussion of sausage 14:50:14 Jeff: the case of Open Library protocal details etc. has some gaps with linked data 14:50:15 suggest xg members take responsibility to manage public list topics - move offline with smaller group, add to topics, fold back to focus of lld - but not prevent discussion 14:50:23 q+ 14:50:39 q+ i think the sausage discussions are important 14:50:56 karen: some of the cases are not pure linked data, the case will be on how you want to move from what you got 14:51:10 +1 14:51:11 karen: happy to use the Open Libraary as one of the use case 14:51:31 +1 karen - linked data + how we get there - most of what i'm doing is the latter 14:51:37 mpanzer: the discussions here touched the issue of how linked data relate to the SW 14:52:30 mpanzer: how we release data silos , how to relate library standards like FRBR and FRSAD to the SW standards/linked data 14:53:04 in addition to putting them on the topic list, but also need to have f-t-face meetings. 14:53:14 emma: move on. 14:53:49 try to put some of these items on the agenda 14:54:11 Topic: Upcoming topics 14:54:24 -- RDA To be discussed in august. 14:54:29 IFLA 14:55:14 add frbr, frad, frsad to upcoming topics 14:55:22 Gordon? :-) 14:55:27 kcoyle? 14:55:29 :-) 14:55:30 anyone is interested in preparing something about RDA 14:55:36 zakim, unmute me 14:55:36 GordonD should no longer be muted 14:55:43 we do not have today 14:56:09 Gordon: Aug. will be difficult. Sept will be better 14:56:23 zakim, mute me 14:56:23 GordonD should now be muted 14:56:29 emma: Gordon will put on something for discussion in Sept. agenda 14:56:48 -- Comments on the NISO Institutional Identifier (I2) Working Group (WG) midterm report -> http://www.niso.org/workrooms/i2/midtermreport/ 14:56:50 I made a page at: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/NISO-I2 14:57:01 scribenick: antoine 14:57:18 marcia: a summary of comments is available on that page 14:57:43 Deadline is august 7 14:58:15 emma: everybody agrees on a collective comment (informal)? 14:58:19 +1 14:58:31 emma: any objection? 14:58:47 ... anyone with comment please check marcia's page 14:58:57 edsu: is it worthwhile mentioning RDF? 14:59:14 marcia: it would be great. How to formulate? 14:59:23 edsu: I will formulate a line on the wiki 14:59:43 marcia: background discussion is on the Discussion page of the wiki page 14:59:54 ... for example MARC 15:00:01 ... people could check that aspect 15:00:35 ACTION: marcia to send (informal) group's comment on I2 before the deadline for comments 15:00:44 emma: AOB? 15:00:46 emma: any other business? 15:00:52 scribe: marcia 15:01:08 emma: adjourned 15:01:16 -jeff 15:01:21 -michaelp 15:01:22 bye 15:01:22 -monica 15:01:25 -ww 15:01:26 -fumi 15:01:28 zakim, bye 15:01:28 leaving. As of this point the attendees were +1.614.764.aaaa, jeff, +33.1.53.79.aabb, emma, antoine, +44.789.798.aacc, kai, +44.194.346.aadd, AlexanderH, monica, +1.334.940.aaee, 15:01:28 Zakim has left #lld 15:01:31 ... jneubert, michaelp, kcoyle, edsu, +1.361.279.aaff, ww, Andras, GordonD, +1.330.672.aagg, marcia, fumi, gneher, matolat 15:01:35 gneher has left #lld 15:01:39 bye 15:01:44 bye 15:01:49 rrsagent please draft minutes 15:02:10 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:02:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html emma 15:02:30 so we are done, right, Emma? 15:02:41 yes 15:03:19 michaelp has left #lld 15:03:20 matolat has joined #lld 15:03:28 ACTION Gordon will prepare something on RDA, FRBR etc. for discussion in Sept. agenda 15:03:35 zakim, list attendees 15:04:07 there is another action that did not recorded correctly 15:04:24 zakim, please unmute me 15:04:28 rrsagent, please draft minutes 15:04:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html emma 15:04:31 about JH to link cases into the template 15:04:32 aaaahhhhhh! 15:05:12 ACTION: Gordon will prepare something on RDA, FRBR etc. for discussion in Sept. agenda 15:05:14 that action was done! 15:05:20 it was from jneubert! 15:05:31 OHEEEE 15:05:38 ACTION WAS DONE 15:05:51 Please look at me! 15:05:54 :-) 15:06:09 I can take care of editing the minutes 15:06:48 this is the one I mentioned: ACTION jneubert willing to take an action on usecase 15:06:53 thank you 15:07:14 rrsagent, bye 15:07:14 I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-lld-actions.rdf : 15:07:14 ACTION: antoine to check cross linking between the two wikis [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action01] DONE [1] 15:07:14 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-lld-irc#T14-15-14 15:07:14 ACTION: stu, alexander, kai and emma to suggest another version of the template. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action05] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Jul/0047.html [2] 15:07:14 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-lld-irc#T14-16-24 15:07:14 ACTION: Alexander, kai, emma to populate the template for use cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action03] -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Authority_Data_Enrichment -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Digital_Preservation [3] 15:07:14 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-lld-irc#T14-19-10 15:07:14 ACTION: everyone to create use cases on the "use case note" page http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseNotes . Not more than 2 persons per case. Deadline august 25. [4] 15:07:14 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-lld-irc#T14-42-45 15:07:14 ACTION: marcia to send (informal) group's comment on I2 before the deadline for comments [5] 15:07:14 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/29-lld-irc#T15-00-35 15:07:14