22:02:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
22:02:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/07/28-html-a11y-irc
22:02:51 <janina> zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(A11Y)
22:02:51 <Zakim> ok, janina, I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM already started
22:02:58 <janina> zakim, call janina
22:02:58 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
22:03:00 <Zakim> +Janina
22:04:11 <JF> JF has joined #html-a11y
22:04:12 <janina> zakim, who's here?
22:04:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see Judy, John_Foliot, Janina
22:04:13 <Zakim> On IRC I see JF, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, silvia, trackbot
22:04:27 <plh> plh has joined #html-a11y
22:04:43 <Zakim> +Plh
22:06:02 <Zakim> + +61.2.801.2.aaaa
22:06:10 <plh> zakim, aaaa is Silvia
22:06:10 <Zakim> +Silvia; got it
22:08:23 <janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
22:08:23 <janina> Chair:  John_Foliot
22:08:23 <janina> agenda: this
22:08:23 <janina> agenda+ Identify Scribe
22:08:23 <janina> agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
22:08:24 <janina> agenda+ Summary--User Requirements and Technical Implications
22:08:26 <janina> agenda+ Starting a Technical Gap Analysis
22:08:28 <janina> agenda+ next meetings, confirm date/time, choose scribe
22:08:30 <janina> agenda+ be done
22:08:32 <janina>  
22:08:56 <silvia> 1. Action Item Review
22:09:40 <silvia> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
22:09:53 <silvia> scribe: silvia
22:11:09 <silvia> judy: can we pick up an action item for pairs of people to do edits to the requirements document
22:11:22 <silvia> … I have a few more edits to do in the next few days
22:12:52 <silvia> silvia: I have edited all of the items that Sean and I had to do
22:13:03 <silvia> … only the extended captions section could do with a group discussion
22:13:25 <silvia> … to have a better grasp on what features we need
22:13:43 <silvia> JF: we have discussed it over the last weeks on the calls, though the minutes may not have everythings
22:14:23 <silvia> Janina: I think we have discussed extended descriptions, but not extended captions
22:14:38 <silvia> Judy: let's add it to the agenda
22:14:52 <silvia> Janina: can do after action item 2
22:15:53 <silvia> JF: Eric and my feedback still has to go into the wiki
22:16:04 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
22:16:30 <silvia> 2. Summary--User Requirements and Technical Implications
22:17:30 <silvia> Janina: review the summary that Janina posted
22:18:18 <silvia> … maybe lets discuss the use case for extended captioning first
22:18:26 <silvia> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements#Extended_Time-aligned_Text_Cues
22:19:03 <Judy> q+
22:21:02 <Judy> q+ to contemplate the interpretation of this new title of the requirements
22:22:01 <silvia> silvia: it is now called extended time-aligned text cues and not any more extended captioning
22:23:00 <silvia> … the idea behind it is to allow people that have slower reading speed and need more explanation about the captions to get this information from the stream
22:23:09 <silvia> … things like pausing at the end of a cue to catch up on reading
22:23:22 <silvia> … and having links to abbreviation explanations etc
22:24:08 <silvia> Janina: this should be something that should be available to normal captions, too
22:24:15 <silvia> … I don't see it necessary to have it separate
22:24:41 <silvia> Judy: the title needs to be reformulated - "cue"s are more like events and not captions
22:25:59 <silvia> JF: I actually like the idea of removing the word "caption" because the use cases go far beyond just caption users
22:26:29 <silvia> Judy: we haven't removed the general caption section, so that may be ok
22:27:37 <silvia> Judy: literacy level of hearing and vision impaired people in comparison to the general population is very different in different countries
22:27:52 <silvia> Janina: it's not necessary to talk about this in the document
22:28:09 <silvia> JF: it's not a technical issue
22:29:37 <silvia> Janina: if the distinction between captions and this section has to do with more extra content beyond dialog, I'm not sure it's necessary
22:30:32 <silvia> … pause content & review is a need
22:30:40 <silvia> … hyperlinks is a need
22:31:17 <Judy> q+
22:31:33 <Judy> q-
22:33:08 <silvia> silvia: there is a separate section for these extensions because there is new functionality that is not traditionally understood under the keyword "caption"
22:34:06 <silvia> Janina: I don't see that we need a different file format for this
22:34:33 <silvia> JF: no, we don't need a new file format for this, but we need extra functionality
22:36:36 <silvia> Janina: it doesn't change the timeline, it just introduces pauses
22:36:46 <silvia> Judy: let's not get bogged down into too much detail
22:37:28 <silvia> … maybe we need to have an offline discussion on this
22:38:02 <silvia> JF: I believe we're at the point where we wanted to do a review of Janina's technical requirements document
22:38:08 <janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0126.html
22:38:10 <silvia> s/document/email/
22:39:28 <silvia> Janina: in the process of discussing in recent weeks, I came up with these terms
22:40:25 <silvia> JF: are there any holes?
22:40:44 <silvia> Janina: I am becoming strongly convinced that extended captions and captions are the same file
22:40:58 <silvia> … other than that I think we are complete
22:41:29 <Judy> q+
22:41:29 <silvia> JF: are we at the point where the requirements document can be sent up the foodchain?
22:41:47 <Judy> q+ to address John's question
22:42:00 <silvia> … do we need to make this email a more formal document?
22:42:46 <silvia> Judy: it would be good to get feedback from those not in the meeting
22:42:58 <silvia> … also, we should look at the different format options
22:43:23 <silvia> … we had laied out last week what comes next
22:43:49 <silvia> JF: we said that once we were happy about the requirements doc, we would take another look at the technical implications
22:44:32 <silvia> … discuss XML formats
22:44:43 <silvia> … discuss streaming implications
22:46:37 <Judy> judy confirms that we still have user requirement edits to complete.
22:46:45 <JF> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements#Extended_Time-aligned_Text_Cues
22:48:30 <silvia> silvia: to some extend we need to finish editing the user requirements before we can specify the detailed technical requirements
22:51:52 <silvia> … Janina's email is a great summary document on the technical conclusions
22:52:02 <silvia> .. it would be good to turn that into a document in the wiki, too
22:52:37 <silvia> … in addition, we can go through the user requirements document and add some small technical conclusions on each requirement
22:53:26 <silvia> Judy: I'm hoping we can get the details in the wiki asap we can move forward with discussions on file format
22:55:17 <silvia> silvia: what makes this even more urgent is that Ian has now included a file format and media a11y solution into the HTML5 spec
22:55:40 <silvia> … even if the file format is only in the WHATWG spec - it has had influence on the general solution
22:56:07 <silvia> JF: timeline and milestones are indeed important
22:56:17 <silvia> … but we need to answer the open questions
22:57:15 <silvia> Janina: if I understand silvia correctly, it makes sense to put a bit more effort into the requirements document to have the individual requirements in the document
22:59:40 <silvia> silvia: I don't think it's much extra effort - we have discussed all of these details already
23:00:37 <silvia> … as I was editing the wiki and included the feedback from the questionnaire, I have included technical notes underneath the individual user requirements to give better understanding to technical people what the user needs actually mean
23:00:46 <Zakim> -Plh
23:01:10 <silvia> … this doesn't need a new document, but just dense notes underneath the individual user requirements
23:01:36 <silvia> … but an extra document that captures the high-level technical conclusions that Janina has summarised would be good
23:02:13 <silvia> JF: Eric and I have been discussing the technical consequences of the user requirements, too
23:02:27 <silvia> … we should indeed put the summary page into the wiki
23:02:40 <silvia> Janina: anyone against including the summary page into the wiki?
23:03:02 <silvia> … I'm in favor of it and I hope we can pull this all together real soon
23:03:24 <silvia> JF: I'll create the wiki page
23:03:39 <silvia> 3. Starting a Technical Gap Analysis
23:05:01 <silvia> JF: do we want to spend the next 25 min on this?
23:05:26 <silvia> silvia: what do we mean by "technical gap analysis"? does it mean we compare the current HTML5 spec with our requirements to identify gaps?
23:09:43 <silvia> JF: yes, probably
23:19:27 <Judy> q+
23:20:11 <silvia> general discussion about approach
23:20:48 <silvia> … it seems the group agrees to discourage browser vendors at this stage from implementing anything
23:20:58 <silvia> … we as a group need to do a good analysis of what is being proposed
23:21:11 <silvia> … we as a group also need to analyse alternatives of what is being proposed
23:23:54 <silvia> … we should also invite others to explain how the current spec is meeting our user requirements
23:26:42 <silvia> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Video_Text_Format <- is an alternative format that I am playing with
23:27:29 <silvia> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Video_Text_Format_Comparison
23:27:33 <Judy> ack j
23:27:33 <Zakim> Judy, you wanted to address John's question and to 
23:30:11 <Judy> q+
23:31:30 <silvia> silvia: I've been experimenting with the above format and comparing to other options to find out about advantages/disadvantages
23:31:51 <Judy> q+ to contemplate the effects of the timing of this approach, and to think about a few things
23:31:54 <silvia> JF: I think it's important that we can show that we are indeed looking at other options
23:41:19 <JF_> JF_ has joined #html-a11y
23:42:09 <silvia> silvia: also note there is a new subtitling format in development in the subtitling community called AS6
23:42:50 <Judy> judy will get back to wrap up of user requirement edits, to finish that
23:43:20 <silvia> JF: ongoing action items for user requirements edits
23:43:40 <silvia> … new wiki page to add with summary on technical requirements
23:44:29 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
23:44:32 <Zakim> -Judy
23:44:33 <Zakim> -Janina
23:44:33 <Zakim> -Silvia
23:44:35 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM has ended
23:44:36 <Zakim> Attendees were Judy, John_Foliot, Janina, Plh, +61.2.801.2.aaaa, Silvia
23:44:42 <janina> zakim, bye
23:44:42 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
23:44:57 <janina> rrsagent, make log public
23:45:05 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
23:45:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/28-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
23:45:20 <janina> OK!
23:45:25 <janina> Thanks, Silvia!
23:45:46 <janina> let me try again ...
23:45:52 <janina> rrsagent, make log public
23:46:01 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
23:46:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/28-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
23:46:08 <silvia> thanks a lot, Janina!
23:46:22 <janina> Anytime.
23:46:35 <janina> They come up public for me now