IRC log of mediafrag on 2010-07-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

08:58:46 [RRSAgent]
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08:58:46 [RRSAgent]
logging to
08:58:48 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
08:58:48 [Zakim]
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08:58:50 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
08:58:50 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()5:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
08:58:51 [trackbot]
Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
08:58:51 [trackbot]
Date: 07 July 2010
09:00:21 [foolip]
the bridge just keeps hanging up on me
09:00:24 [foolip]
UK and France
09:00:42 [raphael]
09:00:52 [raphael]
zakim, code?
09:00:52 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3724 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), raphael
09:01:00 [Zakim]
IA_MFWG()5:00AM has now started
09:01:07 [Zakim]
09:01:10 [foolip]
ok, that worked
09:01:36 [raphael]
zakim, [IPCaller] is foolip
09:01:36 [Zakim]
+foolip; got it
09:01:46 [Zakim]
09:01:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate raphael
09:02:05 [davy]
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09:02:16 [raphael]
Chair: raphael
09:02:27 [raphael]
Regrets: Silvia, Erik, Jack
09:02:33 [dvdeurse]
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09:02:43 [raphael]
Present: Raphael, Davy, Philip, Yves
09:03:39 [Zakim]
09:03:48 [raphael]
zakim, chris is davy
09:03:48 [Zakim]
+davy; got it
09:04:40 [Zakim]
09:05:14 [raphael]
zakim, davy is dvdeurse
09:05:14 [Zakim]
+dvdeurse; got it
09:05:55 [Zakim]
09:05:59 [Zakim]
09:06:28 [raphael]
Topic: 1. Admin
09:06:43 [raphael]
Approved minutes of past telecon
09:06:43 [raphael]
09:06:47 [raphael]
09:06:49 [raphael]
09:06:50 [dvdeurse]
09:06:53 [raphael]
minuts accepted
09:06:54 [foolip]
09:06:59 [raphael]
09:07:10 [raphael]
This will be last telecon for this summer
09:07:20 [raphael]
Next telecon will be 25/08
09:07:24 [raphael]
scribe: raphael
09:07:31 [raphael]
scribenick: raphael
09:08:16 [raphael]
Topic: 2. Specification
09:08:49 [davy]
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09:08:52 [raphael]
Discussion about parsing name values pairs
09:09:39 [raphael]
Philip: name values pairs unknown should it be ignored ?
09:09:48 [raphael]
... and how we manage percent-decoding
09:12:25 [Yves]
09:12:33 [Yves]
axissegment = anysegment *( "&" anysegment )
09:12:51 [raphael]
Philip: my intention is to say that anysegment is timesegment, spacefragment, trackfragment, or unknown fragment
09:12:56 [dvdeurse]
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09:13:21 [Yves]
09:13:42 [raphael]
... but this does not work either since there is the problem of percent decoding
09:14:24 [raphael]
Philip: I'm fine with not be a media fragment
09:15:32 [davy]
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09:15:49 [raphael]
Yves: the issue is more if the t= is percent encoded
09:16:23 [raphael]
... I suggest to do this first step normalization step, doing at least percent-decoding of characters that are not delims, sub-delims, and other non-safe characters.
09:16:41 [raphael]
Philip: problem of the + sign in the timezone
09:17:00 [raphael]
... it seems to me very complex while what I propose seems simpler
09:17:45 [raphael]
... the spec is currently contradictory
09:18:04 [raphael]
... since the grammar says that arbitrary name value pairs is not valid
09:18:27 [dvdeurse]
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09:18:43 [raphael]
Raphael: how do you manage extensibility
09:18:57 [raphael]
Yves: do we really want extensibility?
09:19:08 [raphael]
... I'm not sure it is desirable
09:20:24 [raphael]
Silvia: her position "I personally believe they should be valid, since our discussion was
09:20:24 [raphael]
always that we would ignore name-value parameters that the UA (or the
09:20:24 [raphael]
server) doesn't understand.
09:20:45 [raphael]
... the example was:,20&action=track
09:23:59 [foolip]
Zakim, mute me
09:23:59 [Zakim]
foolip should now be muted
09:24:03 [foolip]
Zakim, unmute me
09:24:03 [Zakim]
foolip should no longer be muted
09:24:24 [davy]
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09:24:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate davy
09:25:11 [raphael]
Yves: I'm not for being completely open to extensibility
09:25:43 [raphael]
Philip: you speculate a lot on what people could add after the # but should we really care about this ?
09:27:43 [raphael]
Raphael: I notice clearly a disagreement in the group currently
09:28:05 [raphael]
Yves's position is that for any unknow name values pair, the entire fragment sould be ignored
09:28:28 [raphael]
... which is not clearly the position of Philip, and I think not what Silvia is thinking too
09:28:56 [raphael]
Davy: I understand Yves'as argument about I'm also concerned by the lack of forward compatibility
09:30:56 [raphael]
Philip: the current syntax is too strong on my opinion, so I don't want to have it normative
09:32:37 [raphael]
Yves: it is to be on the safe side for me to forbid unknown name value pairs
09:36:49 [raphael]
Raphael: other problem is %-decoding
09:37:05 [raphael]
... to we want to allow %-encode of t
09:37:29 [raphael]
Philip: yes, but then you're generic and don't need to treat track and id as special cases
09:40:26 [Yves] => 2.4. When to Encode or Decode
09:40:58 [raphael]
Yves: I suggest to add a paragraph in section 4.1
09:42:02 [raphael]
... explaining a normalization step
09:42:07 [Yves]
09:42:17 [Yves]
normlziation phase => t=10,20
09:42:30 [Yves]
09:42:41 [Yves]
normalization phase => track=foo%3dbar
09:42:51 [Yves]
track foo%3dbar
09:43:02 [Yves]
09:43:36 [foolip]
Zakim, unmute me
09:43:36 [Zakim]
foolip should no longer be muted
09:44:54 [raphael]
Philip: I don't see the value of this pre-process step
09:47:49 [raphael]
Yves: we first need to extract the name value pairs
09:48:26 [raphael]
... before making the URI %-decoding step
09:48:38 [raphael]
Philip: we should first do parsing of arbitrary name value pairs
09:48:52 [raphael]
... and then process those name value pairs
09:49:38 [raphael]
... we then interpret the unicode syntax that results of the %-decoding of those pairs
09:49:48 [davy]
+1 to Philip, this is also the way we parse fragments in our player
09:51:57 [raphael]
Yves: I agree that this is a way to do it ... but this will not be my way, I would implement it differently
09:55:14 [raphael]
close ACTION-182
09:55:14 [trackbot]
ACTION-182 Include summary into wiki page closed
09:55:48 [raphael]
Topic: 3. Save as Use Case
09:56:29 [foolip]
raphael, I have to run for lunch, are we done discussing "my" issue?
09:56:57 [raphael]
yes foolip, until September where we will discuss the issue again
09:57:04 [foolip]
ok, thanks all!
09:57:05 [raphael]
... and before on the mailing list
09:57:16 [Zakim]
09:57:30 [raphael]
Davy: I think we should save the whole media
10:00:56 [raphael]
Yves: save as the whole page ... would mean to save the html, the css, and the media _fragment_ (only the bytes downloaded)
10:01:08 [raphael]
... save as the media would mean save the entire media file
10:01:57 [raphael]
Chris question: Is it expected that for every URL request with a fragment that matches
10:01:57 [raphael]
the syntax of media fragments that the user agent will attempt to send
10:01:57 [raphael]
the Range header?
10:01:59 [raphael]
10:05:24 [raphael]
I'm going through
10:08:00 [raphael]
Topic: 4. AOB
10:08:08 [raphael]
I will answer Chris
10:08:17 [Zakim]
10:08:19 [Zakim]
10:08:20 [Zakim]
10:08:20 [Zakim]
IA_MFWG()5:00AM has ended
10:08:22 [Zakim]
Attendees were foolip, raphael, Yves, dvdeurse
10:10:35 [davy]
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10:21:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate raphael
10:28:53 [raphael]
ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
10:28:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate raphael
10:29:00 [raphael]
zakim, bye
10:29:00 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #mediafrag
10:29:06 [raphael]
RRSAgent, bye
10:29:06 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items