21:59:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
21:59:31 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-html-a11y-irc
21:59:41 <janina> zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(A11Y)
21:59:41 <Zakim> ok, janina, I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM already started
21:59:43 <Zakim> +John
21:59:47 <janina> zakim, call janina
21:59:47 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
21:59:49 <Zakim> +Janina
22:00:13 <janina> zakim, who is on the phone?
22:00:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see John, Janina
22:00:52 <silvia> I will be here on irc
22:01:52 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
22:02:19 <JF> thanks silvia
22:02:29 <Zakim> + +44.154.558.aaaa
22:02:37 <Zakim> +Judy
22:04:10 <janina> scribe: janina
22:05:22 <janina> jf: suggests we go through first batch of comments
22:05:28 <janina> jf: consider how to get them into the wiki doc
22:05:54 <janina> jf: then second batch, and tech reqs
22:07:11 <janina> jf: sec 2.4 clear audio ...
22:07:16 <JF> Sec. 2.4 Clear Audio
22:07:17 <JF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jun/0205.html
22:07:19 <JF> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements#Clear_
22:07:20 <JF> audio
22:07:22 <JF> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirements/results#xq
22:07:23 <JF> 5
22:07:52 <janina> jf: seems there was confusion re what clear audio is
22:08:14 <janina> jf: that we're talking about an isolated audio track
22:08:50 <janina> jf: is that correct
22:09:13 <janina> sh: my understanding is as used in u.k., believe it's derived
22:09:20 <janina> sh: but that's not the same as the user req
22:09:39 <janina> sh: we need to capture the separation notion
22:10:11 <janina> jf: one audio stream, or a derived stream?
22:10:14 <janina> sh: could be either
22:10:35 <Zakim> +Eric
22:11:02 <eric_carlson> eric_carlson has joined #html-a11y
22:11:23 <janina> jf: rec is to make it 'separate alternative audio track'
22:12:04 <janina> sh: real req is to separate speech in foreground from all background audio
22:12:22 <janina> jf: so how much on ua vs content producer
22:12:32 <silvia> question: do we need to insist on having the audio track separate or could it be a track inside a multitrack resource? The latter would be easier to implement.
22:13:10 <silvia> i.e if we have the notion of separate, that should not imply separate resources
22:13:52 <Judy> js: but they can still do that if they are separate tracks
22:14:05 <Judy> sh: [missed]
22:14:31 <JF> (JF sees silvia on IRC)
22:14:59 <Judy> sh: just change the relative volume, it's the normal playback system, the user is in control of that
22:15:26 <Judy> ...if the player always has to play back the standard sound track, you always have to have at least the separation of the 2 channels
22:15:48 <mkobayas> mkobayas has joined #html-a11y
22:15:49 <Judy> js: seems to me that you might have a user agent far more capable than just playing one audio track
22:16:18 <Judy> sh: go for the lowest common denominator, that is what you author for
22:17:00 <janina> jf: so are we talking ability to see multiple audio tracks -- at the ua
22:17:34 <Judy> js: i think that is very realistic, that's what we're going to see
22:17:50 <janina> sh: simplest is just choose a track
22:18:52 <janina> sh: js is correct, much of our other reqs will require multiple audio, or multiple video, or multiple text tracks -- some combo
22:19:09 <Judy> zakim, who's on phone?
22:19:09 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, Judy.
22:19:22 <Judy> zakim, who's here?
22:19:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see John, Janina, +44.154.558.aaaa, Judy, Eric
22:19:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see mkobayas, eric_carlson, Judy, RRSAgent, janina, JF, silvia, MikeSmith, Zakim, trackbot
22:19:57 <Judy> zakim, +44 is Sean
22:19:57 <Zakim> +Sean; got it
22:25:05 <janina> sh: so one req is on content provider to make the clear audio available in addition to default audio stream
22:25:15 <janina> sh: second is on the ua to select, either or both
22:30:20 <janina> jb: seems we're combining tech and user req discussion
22:32:19 <Judy> judy agrees w/ js' and sh' capture of this -- but we do need to capture it
22:32:51 <janina> sh: user need is to be able to listen to either the clear audio stream or the mixed default stream
22:35:24 <Judy> jf: i don't think that will happen
22:35:40 <Judy> js: it has to happen, it's in multiple recc's
22:35:55 <Judy> ec: it will happen in some, and won't be supported in others
22:36:18 <Judy> jf: so we say, support speech as a separate audio track, and leave it at that?
22:36:32 <Judy> js: that would be the reasonable way to achieve it
22:37:01 <Judy> jf: we seem to understand each other, and update the wiki, and move on
22:37:54 <JF> (CA-1) Support speech as a separate, alternative audio track from other sounds. 
22:38:46 <JF> (CA-1) Support speech as a separate, isolated audio track from other sounds. 
22:39:30 <JF> Agreed!
22:39:48 <janina> jf: sec 2.5 content nav by content structure
22:42:50 <silvia> I don't understand the difference between alternative audio track and isolated audio track - hopefully your wiki edits will make these clearer
22:44:22 <davidb> davidb has joined #html-a11y
22:44:40 <Judy> silvia, sean proposed re-naming it, it is not a different thing
22:45:51 <silvia> ok, thanks
22:46:35 <mkobayas> mkobayas has joined #html-a11y
22:51:10 <JF> judy notes that minutes are lean
22:51:30 <janina> people questioning whether a daisy type audio plus e-text is in scope
22:54:08 <Judy> judy notes that there were no pre-exclusions of scope
22:54:57 <davidb> davidb has joined #html-a11y
22:57:55 <davidb> davidb has left #html-a11y
22:59:48 <silvia> i would not want to mention concrete formats in the requirements doc other than as an example for describing a requirement
23:00:15 <silvia> requirements need to be independent of concrete tech solutions
23:00:30 <silvia> re daisy and epub
23:00:46 <JF> Eric suggests that the require is that we can associate a document with the media resource that describes the structure of the resource
23:01:19 <JF> EC: we also need to say somehow that it be possible for the user to be able to navigate through the media resource with that infomration
23:01:30 <Judy> judy clarifies for silvia that this was not an explicit discussion of including those formats, but being able to address formats with those types of capabilities
23:02:31 <silvia> good, agreed
23:04:31 <JF> (CN-2) Provide support for a means of describing the structure of a media resource, and the ability to navigate via this structure.
23:06:53 <janina> users need to be able to navigate media by its inherent structure, e.g.
23:06:53 <janina> can associate a document with the media resource that describes the structure of
23:06:53 <janina>            the resource
23:06:53 <janina> <JF> EC: we also need to say somehow that it be possible for the user to be able to navigate through the media resource with
23:08:38 <janina>            that infomrationagreement to drop 'inherent'
23:10:13 <JF> (CN-2) Users need to be able to navigate media by its structure (e.g. Using a document that describes the structure of the resource)
23:10:20 <eric_carlson> +1
23:10:23 <JF> Agreed!
23:10:25 <janina> +1
23:11:02 <silvia> +1
23:12:02 <janina> yes
23:13:19 <janina> jb: raises process concern -- we seem to be going item by item again. is there a way to expedite?
23:18:03 <JF> Sec. 2.8 - Judy to track down example for clarification - will coordinate with Sean
23:18:47 <JF> Sec. 2.8 Sign Translation
23:18:49 <JF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jun/0269.html
23:18:50 <JF> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements#Sign_T
23:18:52 <JF> ranslation 
23:18:53 <JF> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirements/results#xq
23:18:55 <JF> 9 
23:22:09 <JF> Will ask Silvia to make edits to wiki to incorporate the Q & A provided for this section (clarriffication)
23:22:25 <JF> Sec. 2.9 Transcripts
23:22:27 <JF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jun/0229.html
23:22:29 <JF> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements#Transc
23:22:30 <JF> ripts
23:22:32 <JF> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirements/results#xq
23:22:33 <JF> 10
23:22:37 <silvia> there are not enough notes in these minutes for me to know what to edit
23:22:48 <silvia> I can make the edits for the sections that Sean and I reviewed though
23:25:55 <JF> Eric proposes that each group edit the wiki for the sections they responded to/on
23:26:48 <silvia> agreed
23:26:52 <Judy> judy +1 to eric's suggestion. judy & janina will do this thurs or fri
23:27:49 <Judy> judy proposes that all parties capture their changes in the history or discussion page, as appropriate for coordinated wiki work
23:33:08 <silvia> the history page will capture the changes automatically
23:33:28 <silvia> you can put rationale on the discussion page
23:33:32 <Zakim> -Sean
23:33:36 <Zakim> -Eric
23:33:41 <Zakim> -Judy
23:33:43 <Zakim> -John
23:33:45 <janina> general group agreement to drop 'keyboard' from user controls and merge two sections as proposed by jb and js
23:33:50 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
23:33:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
23:34:04 <janina> zakim, bye
23:34:04 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were John, Janina, +44.154.558.aaaa, Judy, Eric, Sean
23:34:04 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
23:38:12 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
23:38:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
23:38:19 <janina> rrsagent, make log public
23:38:24 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
23:38:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html janina