15:29:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #core
15:29:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-core-irc
15:29:18 <aphillip> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
15:29:24 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #core
15:29:30 <aphillip> zakim, this will be i18N
15:29:30 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, aphillip
15:29:36 <aphillip> zakim, this will be I18N
15:29:36 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, aphillip
15:29:43 <aphillip> zakim, this will be i18n
15:29:43 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, aphillip
16:26:06 <r12a> r12a has joined #core
16:29:57 <David> David has joined #core
16:30:33 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #core
16:31:14 <r12a> felix, i18n
16:31:36 <r12a> zakim, dial richard please
16:31:36 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
16:31:37 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()12:30PM has now started
16:31:38 <Zakim> +Richard
16:32:23 <aphillip> aphillip has joined #core
16:32:28 <r12a> felix, 4186 spells i18n on the phone keyboard
16:33:01 <Zakim> +aphillip
16:33:25 <Zakim> + +1.415.283.aaaa
16:33:26 <aphillip> Meeting: Internationalization Teleconference
16:33:38 <aphillip> Scribe: Addison Phillips
16:33:43 <Norbert> Norbert has joined #core
16:33:46 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:33:48 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillip
16:33:49 <Zakim> +David
16:33:53 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
16:33:59 <Norbert> zakim, mute Norbert
16:33:59 <Zakim> sorry, Norbert, I do not know which phone connection belongs to Norbert
16:34:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-core-minutes.html aphillip
16:34:32 <r12a> zakim, +1 is Norbert
16:34:32 <Zakim> +Norbert; got it
16:34:36 <aphillip> Topic: Agenda and Minutes
16:34:36 <Norbert> zakim, mute Norbert
16:34:36 <Zakim> Norbert should now be muted
16:35:57 <aphillip> Topic: Action Items
16:35:59 <Norbert> can we add the time zone ID to the agenda?
16:36:08 <aphillip> addison: forward date-time proposal to HTML WG 
16:36:19 <aphillip> all: respond to Issue-88 survey on HTML-WG at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-88-objection-poll/
16:36:31 <aphillip> richard submitted for the WG
16:36:57 <aphillip> addison: write Internationalization WG position response 
16:36:59 <aphillip> DONE
16:37:06 <aphillip> richard: html is meeting now
16:39:23 <aphillip> Topic: Info Share
16:40:24 <aphillip> addison: unicode locale extension about to enter last call
16:40:56 <aphillip> addison: iri issues list today
16:41:34 <aphillip> .. please review and see if you can contribute
16:42:12 <r12a> http://www.multilingualweb.eu/en
16:42:14 <aphillip> richard: multilingual web project
16:42:21 <aphillip> ... link above to home page
16:42:26 <aphillip> ... moving forwards
16:42:28 <r12a> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb/
16:42:31 <aphillip> ... email list setup (above)
16:42:38 <aphillip> ... please join
16:42:51 <r12a> http://www.twitter.com/multilingweb
16:42:53 <aphillip> ... not a lot of news yet
16:43:01 <aphillip> ... but the twitter link above provides such
16:43:06 <r12a> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Multilingual-Web/130129063691288#!/pages/Multilingual-Web/130129063691288?ref=ts
16:43:07 <aphillip> ... also an FB page
16:43:17 <aphillip> ... please to visit
16:43:31 <aphillip> ... on home page (first link above), most is a news stream
16:43:36 <r12a> http://www.multilingualweb.eu/en/blog
16:43:37 <aphillip> ... including blog posts from partners
16:44:29 <r12a> Next event
16:44:29 <r12a> The Multilingual Web - Where are we?
16:44:29 <r12a> Date: 26-27 October 2010
16:44:29 <r12a> Location: Madrid, Spain
16:44:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-core-minutes.html aphillip
16:44:52 <r12a> http://www.multilingualweb.eu/documents
16:45:03 <aphillip> ... info above
16:45:43 <aphillip> richard: playing with I18N Checker prototype
16:45:45 <r12a> http://qa-dev.w3.org/i18n-checker/
16:45:56 <aphillip> ... added checks for b and i tags
16:46:12 <aphillip> ... also compare language detection to tags
16:47:59 <aphillip> Topic: <b> and <i> tags document approval 
16:48:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-core-minutes.html aphillip
16:48:11 <aphillip> richard: making changes to document
16:48:15 <aphillip> ... some feedback
16:48:27 <aphillip> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2010Jun/0007.html
16:48:44 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-b-and-i-tags.en.php
16:48:56 <aphillip> richard: created background section
16:49:03 <aphillip> ... changed japanese examples
16:49:09 <aphillip> ... used <cite> element
16:49:38 <aphillip> ... added subsection on using lang... not to rely on it
16:50:09 <aphillip> ... added link to html5 spec, where you can find text semantic elements, etc.
16:50:55 <aphillip> question is: can I publish now? and do we want to discuss tag vs. element?
16:51:11 <Norbert> zakim, unmute Norbert
16:51:11 <Zakim> Norbert should no longer be muted
16:51:35 <aphillip> norbert: element is more correct and you should use it
16:52:08 <aphillip> addison: maybe both in the question?
16:52:12 <fsasaki> felix: sees some arguments from also HTML5 people like Anne van k. for "element", but also mentioning that he(Anne)  is confusing the usage as well
16:52:26 <fsasaki> s/he(Anne)/he (Anne)/
16:52:58 <aphillip> Should I use <b> and <i> elements (tags) in my documents?
16:53:28 <aphillip> Should I use the <b> and <i> elements (tags) in my documents?
16:54:58 <fsasaki> fine by me
16:55:17 <aphillip> is it ready to publish?
16:55:47 <aphillip> addison: anyone need more time to review?
16:55:55 <fsasaki> no
16:55:58 <aphillip> norbert: looks fine to me
16:56:13 <aphillip> chair: any opposed to publication?
16:56:33 <Norbert> zakim, mute Norbert
16:56:33 <Zakim> Norbert should now be muted
16:56:36 <aphillip> ACTION: richard: publish the b and i tags/elements document
16:56:39 <Zakim> -Richard
16:56:45 <r12a> zakim, dial richard please
16:56:45 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
16:56:47 <Zakim> +Richard
16:57:24 <aphillip> Topic: Polyglot review (approval of Richard's comments) 
16:57:32 <aphillip>    http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-html-polyglot-20100624/    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2010JulSep/0001.html
16:58:05 <aphillip> richard: the polyglot document describes how to write html5 as xml if you want to serve as text/html
16:58:14 <aphillip> ... follow on the Appendix C in XHTML
16:58:36 <aphillip> ... can use xml syntax and this document says how to do that and still serve as HTML
16:58:43 <aphillip> ... but there are many i18n comments
16:58:51 <aphillip> ...despite document brevity
16:59:10 <aphillip> richard: when UTF-16, must include BOM?
16:59:42 <Norbert> zakim, unmute Norbert
16:59:42 <Zakim> Norbert should no longer be muted
17:02:30 <aphillip> UTF-8 is better choice, but BOM has to be used with UTF-16
17:04:47 <Norbert> zakim, mute Norbert
17:04:49 <Zakim> Norbert should now be muted
17:05:01 <aphillip> addison: I would remove the rec of bom for UTF-8
17:05:09 <aphillip> ... but require it for UTF-16
17:05:50 <aphillip> richard: "polyglot markup need not include meta charset"
17:06:03 <aphillip> ... include visible encoding declaration in the document
17:06:11 <aphillip> ... because it helps developers
17:06:23 <aphillip> ... we would prefer a paragraphs saying that
17:06:27 <aphillip> addison: okay with that
17:06:56 <aphillip> richard: use UTF-8 or UTF-16 with appropriate BOM
17:07:12 <aphillip> ... implies UTF-8 BOM
17:08:20 <aphillip> addison: use encoding declaration tool at hand for UTF-8
17:08:46 <aphillip> ... bom invisible, don't rely on it to carry the information
17:08:52 <aphillip> ... save for utf-16
17:09:33 <aphillip> richard: document says "polyglot markup must ... use utf-8/utf-16 ... or use <meta> or <xml> document declaration
17:09:56 <aphillip> addison: technically correct, but we don't want them to say that
17:10:07 <aphillip> richard: omit list
17:10:16 <Zakim> -Norbert
17:10:25 <aphillip> ... they go on to explain it
17:10:37 <Zakim> + +1.408.349.aabb
17:10:41 <aphillip> If polyglot markup uses an encoding other than UTF-8 or UTF-16, it must include the XML declaration; however, in this case the document must  also include the HTML meta tag specifying the character set. When polyglot markup uses both the XML declaration and the HTML meta  tag, these must specify the same character and coding. 
17:10:46 <Norbert> Norbert has joined #core
17:12:46 <aphillip> richard: not either/or, we'd prefer to see xml and meta with utf-8/utf-16 also
17:14:01 <aphillip> richard: section 7, attributes
17:14:07 <aphillip> ... no mention of xml:lang and lang
17:14:12 <aphillip> ... should say both should be used
17:14:25 <aphillip> ... also set default language in document via html @lang
17:14:37 <aphillip> ... <meta> content-language has no use in XML in setting language
17:15:28 <aphillip> richard: sections 6.2.2, 6.2.3
17:16:15 <aphillip> Polyglot markup uses lowercase letters for the values of the attributes in the following list when they exist on HTML elements. More specifically, where required, polyglot markup must use lower case letters for all ASCII letters in these attribute values; however, case requirements do not apply to non-ASCII letters such as Greek, Cyrillic, or non-ASCII Latin letters. Attributes for HTML elements other than those in the following list may have values made of m
17:18:14 <aphillip> addison: do they mean "value" of the attribute or jsut the name of the attribute??
17:18:25 <fsasaki> s/jsut /just /
17:24:09 <aphillip> need to clarify
17:25:10 <aphillip> richard: named entity references
17:25:19 <aphillip> ... uses decimal NCR instead of NBSP
17:25:23 <aphillip> ... would prefer hex here
17:26:21 <aphillip> norbert: one misspelling as ployglot
17:26:57 <aphillip> chair: objections to forwarding?
17:27:12 <aphillip> ACTION: richard: send our comments to the html wg on polyglot document
17:27:26 <aphillip> s/comments/comments and questions/
17:27:32 <aphillip> Topic: AOB?
17:27:51 <aphillip> I-D on time zones
17:29:29 <aphillip>    http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-douglass-timezone-xml-00.txt
17:30:27 <aphillip> comment individually, but copy public-i18n if you would like WG endorsement
17:30:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-core-minutes.html aphillip
17:30:45 <Zakim> -David
17:30:46 <Zakim> -aphillip
17:30:47 <Zakim> -Norbert
17:30:50 <Zakim> -Richard
17:30:51 <Zakim> -Felix
17:30:51 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()12:30PM has ended
17:30:53 <Zakim> Attendees were Richard, aphillip, +1.415.283.aaaa, [IPcaller], David, Felix, Norbert, +1.408.349.aabb
17:31:03 <aphillip> zakim, bye
17:31:03 <Zakim> Zakim has left #core
17:31:10 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
17:31:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-core-minutes.html aphillip
17:31:20 <aphillip> rrsagent, bye
17:31:20 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-core-actions.rdf :
17:31:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: richard: publish the b and i tags/elements document [1]
17:31:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-core-irc#T16-56-36
17:31:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: richard: send our comments to the html wg on polyglot document [2]
17:31:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-core-irc#T17-27-12