15:08:53 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov-xg
15:08:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/07/02-prov-xg-irc
15:08:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:08:55 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov-xg
15:08:57 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 98765
15:08:57 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_PROVXG()11:00AM scheduled to start 8 minutes ago
15:08:58 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference
15:08:58 <trackbot> Date: 02 July 2010
15:09:06 <jcheney> no prob
15:09:07 <jcheney> sure
15:09:16 <jcheney> Zakim, this will be inc_provxg
15:09:16 <Zakim> ok, jcheney, I see INC_PROVXG()11:00AM already started
15:09:23 <YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Analysis_of_Disease_Outbreak_Scenario
15:09:28 <Zakim> -??P16
15:09:41 <pgroth> james?
15:09:45 <kai> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:09:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.619.223.aaaa, [IPcaller], ??P4, [IPcaller.a], ??P7, +44.238.059.aabb, +49.302.093.aacc, [IPcaller.aa], ??P12, [IPcaller.aaa], +30281039aadd
15:09:49 <pgroth> you on the phone?
15:10:02 <jcheney> i just hung up accidentally
15:10:21 <Zakim> +??P16
15:10:26 <YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Analysis_of_Disease_Outbreak_Scenario
15:10:55 <jcheney> zakim, ??P16 is me
15:10:55 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
15:11:57 <kai> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:12:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.619.223.aaaa, [IPcaller], ??P4 (muted), [IPcaller.a], ??P7, +44.238.059.aabb, +49.302.093.aacc, [IPcaller.aa], ??P12, [IPcaller.aaa], +30281039aadd, jcheney
15:12:12 <kai> zakim, ??P4 is me.
15:12:12 <Zakim> +kai; got it
15:12:28 <jcheney> James: no progress on scenario #2
15:12:35 <jcheney> Yolanda: nest topic: tagging
15:12:50 <jcheney> (oops: nest/next)
15:13:23 <jcheney> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-prov/2010Jul/
15:13:33 <jcheney> chair: Yolanda Gil
15:13:42 <jcheney> Scribe: James Cheney
15:13:49 <jcheney> ScribeNick: jcheney
15:13:56 <jcheney> rrsagent, make logs public
15:14:09 <Zakim> - +44.238.059.aabb
15:14:27 <jcheney> Yolanda: goal is to identify major tags for research / state of art categorization
15:14:29 <YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Bibliography_Tags#Provenance_dimensions
15:14:42 <jcheney> ... placed notes/tags in wiki page 
15:15:46 <jcheney> ... organize by application areas (or link to them)
15:16:18 <pgroth> +q
15:17:42 <kai> zakim, who is making noise?
15:17:53 <Zakim> kai, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.619.223.aaaa (5%), ??P7 (53%), +49.302.093.aacc (42%)
15:17:58 <jcheney> ... stable set of tags over next few weeks
15:18:22 <olaf> zakim, mute me
15:18:22 <Zakim> sorry, olaf, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
15:18:27 <jcheney> Paul: Can have as many tags as we want (multi-words)
15:18:33 <olaf> zakim, aacc is me
15:18:33 <Zakim> +olaf; got it
15:18:41 <olaf> zakim, mute me
15:18:41 <Zakim> olaf should now be muted
15:19:05 <jcheney> ... for mapping to specific technical requirements, identify which requirements satisfied by which techniques
15:19:16 <jcheney> ... use "names" of TRs/URs as tags?
15:20:17 <jcheney> Yolanda: Prefer human-readable tags
15:20:33 <jcheney> Paul: Can have both (by linking tags to useful descriptions)
15:22:48 <YolandaGil> ack
15:22:54 <YolandaGil> ack pgroth
15:23:25 <Christine> No comments as yet
15:23:40 <jcheney> Yolanda: Will ask everyone for comments on tags
15:23:53 <jcheney> Daniel: Wondering who will do the tagging
15:24:09 <jcheney> Yolanda: Everyone (anyone)
15:25:01 <jcheney> Irini: Happy with both human readable and other tags
15:25:54 <pgroth> +1
15:26:09 <jcheney> James: might try a little tagging first to get a feel for what we really need
15:26:16 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aaaa]
15:26:30 <jcheney> Jim: try using existing list organically and adapt
15:26:34 <Irini> +1 for James
15:26:48 <jun> jun has joined #prov-xg
15:26:54 <olaf> zakim, unmute me
15:26:54 <Zakim> olaf should no longer be muted
15:27:06 <jcheney> Kai: prefer human readable tags (?)
15:27:32 <kai> if i had to choose, yes
15:27:35 <jcheney> Olaf: Use provenance dimensions for general level, then add specific tags
15:27:39 <pgroth> +1
15:27:48 <Zakim> -kai
15:28:45 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aaaaa]
15:28:51 <jcheney> Paul: Clarify that people can tag however they want to get started
15:29:04 <olaf> zakim, mute me
15:29:04 <Zakim> olaf should now be muted
15:29:12 <kai> zakim, [IPcaller.aaaaa] is me.
15:29:12 <Zakim> +kai; got it
15:29:15 <jcheney> ... Can use both "compact" (C-ATTR-TR1) tags and high-level word tags
15:30:11 <jcheney> Sam: Agree with Olaf's suggestion
15:31:31 <jcheney> Yolanda: OK, let's go with flexible tagging (up to each person), 2 levels rather than 3
15:32:21 <jcheney> ... How to situate work/organize collection?  Useful to have papers organized along dimensions (content, use, management)
15:32:31 <olaf> +1
15:32:40 <jcheney> ... minimal tags will help focus/prepare report
15:33:06 <Dgarijo> yes
15:33:08 <jcheney> ... Start by tagging each with one of content, management, use?
15:33:11 <olaf> +q
15:33:16 <olaf> zakim, unmute me
15:33:16 <Zakim> olaf should no longer be muted
15:33:52 <jcheney> Olaf: Tagging with dimensions OK, but tagging by scenarios seems hard to do
15:34:11 <jcheney> Yolanda: Why difficult?
15:34:50 <jcheney> Olaf: Scenarios may not be portable to other groups, future efforts
15:34:55 <pgroth> but the point is that you can tag anything
15:35:59 <olaf> q-
15:36:02 <jcheney> Yolanda: Main use is for us in preparing report
15:36:45 <pgroth> well, is it that hard?
15:36:46 <jcheney> Yolanda: Are people happy with minimal tags?
15:36:54 <Christine> Not sure yet
15:37:56 <jun> agree with not mentioning scenarios in the tag
15:39:02 <Christine> I wonder whether tagging a couple of particular aspects of the scenarios might be useful for people who are looking for info in particular areas, rather than the scenario itself
15:40:04 <jcheney> james: tag dimensions and (orthogonal) research areas?
15:40:22 <jcheney> Jim: Scenario tagging seems harder/noisier
15:41:11 <jcheney> Jun: does it make sense to tag based on area (web, database, workflow)?
15:41:53 <jcheney> Yolanda: Should research area be part of minimal tags?
15:42:32 <jcheney> Kai: Would rather use dimensions, but it's tagging, can be flexible
15:43:36 <jcheney> Olaf: Research areas need not be required, but suggest we do have some minimal required tags
15:43:52 <Irini> q+
15:44:27 <Jim> have to drop off early - have a good weekend!
15:44:33 <Zakim> -??P12
15:44:56 <jcheney> Paul: Dimensions minimal, but hope that people will add more.  Why look at the paper twice?
15:46:34 <jcheney> Sam: agree on dimensions as minimum required tags, for categorization
15:46:36 <YolandaGil> ack Irini
15:47:15 <jcheney> Irini: research tags: differences between data and wf provenance, between different models within areas, which already have standard terminology
15:47:24 <pgroth> a bit much?
15:47:32 <jcheney> ... propose terminology for other areas?
15:48:52 <jcheney> Yolanda: Who has mendelay account?  What do we do?
15:49:11 <jcheney> Paul: If you have account, Mendelay desktop, 
15:49:23 <jcheney> ... subscribe to provenance xg collection
15:49:36 <jcheney> ... each paper has a tags field
15:49:45 <olaf> is it Free Software?
15:50:28 <jcheney> Yolanda: Do tags have author provenance?
15:50:53 <jcheney> Paul: they don't
15:51:14 <jcheney> Yolanda: Instructions on wiki page for people who aren't here?
15:51:19 <pgroth> they do
15:51:22 <pgroth> the software is free
15:51:29 <pgroth> (not open source) but free
15:51:41 <jun> http://www.slideshare.net/junzhao/2010-06-rdfnext
15:51:47 <jcheney> Yolanda: Jun will give report on rdf workshop
15:52:25 <jcheney> Jun: During workshop, people teased out/classified requirements (core or not)
15:52:53 <jcheney> ... Our identity / named graph requirements have been accepted as "core"
15:52:58 <jcheney> .. others as "infrastructure"
15:53:23 <jcheney> ... requirements were well received; discussed what needs to be done for RDF core in future
15:53:35 <jcheney> ... annotation framework for provenance a core topic for second day
15:53:53 <jcheney> ... other groups had strong requirements for named graphs, annotations
15:54:10 <jun> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/RDF_Core_Charter_2010
15:54:12 <jcheney> ... ours stood out as clear for community
15:54:18 <jun> http://www.w3.org/2010/06/rdf-work-items/table
15:54:23 <jcheney> Jun: Posted results of workshop to list (URL above)
15:54:41 <jcheney> ... Shows core charter for vote to w3c members
15:54:59 <jcheney> ... Second shows vote among workshop attendees
15:55:07 <jcheney> ... showing identity, named graphs important to many
15:55:13 <jcheney> ... so may happen sooner
15:55:32 <jcheney> ... Would people be interested in contributing/redrafting charter?
15:56:38 <jcheney> ... Standardization of JSON, subject literals
15:57:19 <jcheney> ... No one quite understands why/why not, hopes someone else will resolve
15:57:39 <jcheney> ... Extend RDF semantics, keep compatible?
15:58:07 <jcheney> ... Workshop not married to current RDF, but don't want to break SPARQL 
15:58:07 <kai> zakim, who is making noise?
15:58:10 <pgroth> olaf
15:58:12 <jcheney> zakim who is noisy
15:58:12 <pgroth> ?
15:58:17 <jcheney> zakim, who is noisy
15:58:17 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is noisy', jcheney
15:58:18 <Zakim> kai, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [IPcaller.aaaa] (65%), ??P7 (43%), olaf (39%)
15:58:26 <olaf> zakim, mute me
15:58:26 <Zakim> olaf should now be muted
15:58:38 <jcheney> ... What kind of querying do we (prov-xg) need from RDF?
15:58:39 <olaf> Sorry - it must be the US bridge
15:59:12 <jcheney> ... Good outcomes in that named graphs increased in priority
15:59:31 <pgroth> +q
15:59:31 <YolandaGil> q?
15:59:34 <jcheney> Yolanda: Any questions?
16:00:12 <jcheney> Paul: Any other issues besides named graphs that looked interesting to us (prov-xg)?
16:00:41 <jcheney> Jun: Blank nodes were discussed, but may be more of an implementation issue
16:01:03 <jcheney> ... A few papers we should add to state of the art report, about annotations of rdf graphs
16:01:34 <jcheney> ... RDF community does not view annotation as a core issue.
16:01:47 <jcheney> ... Want to do named graphs, syntax, semantics right.
16:02:04 <jcheney> ... Relies on someone to write best practices for provenance/annotation
16:02:30 <jcheney> Yolanda: Noticed there were other papers talking about provenance.  Did they bring up new issues/requirements?
16:02:44 <jcheney> Jun: Other papers agreed on named graphs/identity
16:03:11 <jcheney> ... Paper on changeset: Wasn't clear what they want to do, but want to model changes/updates to graphs
16:03:43 <jcheney> ... Another paper proposed annotation framework, need named graphs and explicit semantics
16:03:59 <YolandaGil> q?
16:04:04 <pgroth> ack
16:04:08 <pgroth> zakim, ack
16:04:08 <Zakim> I don't understand 'ack', pgroth
16:04:10 <pgroth> q-
16:04:16 <jcheney> Yolanda: That's it for today.  Topics for next week?
16:04:26 <pgroth> who is writing the state of the art?
16:04:37 <jcheney> q+
16:04:42 <jun> the vocabulary mapping work?
16:05:23 <pgroth> probably not
16:05:53 <Christine> Someone may have to show me what to do
16:05:59 <jcheney> James: suggest everyone try to tag 2-3 papers
16:07:10 <Zakim> - +1.619.223.aaaa
16:07:12 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:07:13 <Zakim> -??P7
16:07:14 <Zakim> - +30281039aadd
16:07:15 <Zakim> -jcheney
16:07:16 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.aaa]
16:07:16 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.aaaa]
16:07:16 <Zakim> -olaf
16:07:17 <Zakim> -kai
16:07:19 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.aa]
16:07:22 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
16:07:23 <Zakim> INC_PROVXG()11:00AM has ended
16:07:25 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.619.223.aaaa, [IPcaller], +44.238.059.aabb, +49.302.093.aacc, +30281039aadd, jcheney, kai, olaf
16:07:45 <jcheney> rrsagent, set log public
16:07:56 <jcheney> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:07:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/02-prov-xg-minutes.html jcheney
16:08:07 <jcheney> trackbot, end telcon
16:08:07 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:08:07 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:08:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:08:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/02-prov-xg-minutes.html trackbot
16:08:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:08:09 <RRSAgent> I see no action items