15:01:38 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swxg
15:01:38 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-swxg-irc
15:01:40 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:01:40 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #swxg
15:01:42 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7994
15:01:42 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_SWXG()11:00AM scheduled to start now
15:01:43 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference
15:01:43 <trackbot> Date: 30 June 2010
15:01:47 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
15:01:47 <Zakim> INC_SWXG()11:00AM has not yet started, MacTed
15:01:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, caribou, DKA, tpa, karl, MacTed, tlr, tinkster, mischat, danbri, FabGandon, trackbot
15:01:51 <MacTed> Zakim, this is 7994
15:01:51 <Zakim> ok, MacTed; that matches INC_SWXG()11:00AM
15:01:54 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
15:01:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.510.931.aaaa, +1.781.273.aabb, DKA
15:01:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, caribou, DKA, tpa, karl, MacTed, tlr, tinkster, mischat, danbri, FabGandon, trackbot
15:02:05 <MacTed> Zakim, aabb is OpenLink_Software
15:02:05 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it
15:02:08 <DKA> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html
15:02:11 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:02:11 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:02:53 <DKA> zakim, aaaa is Henry
15:02:53 <Zakim> +Henry; got it
15:03:47 <cperey> cperey has joined #swxg
15:04:43 <Zakim> +Carine
15:04:58 <Zakim> + +1.617.848.aacc
15:05:18 <cperey> zakim, 848.aacc is me
15:05:18 <Zakim> sorry, cperey, I do not recognize a party named '848.aacc'
15:05:29 <cperey> zakim, aacc is me
15:05:29 <Zakim> +cperey; got it
15:05:50 <caribou> yes
15:06:29 <DKA> ScribeNick: caribou
15:06:32 <DKA> Scribe: Dan
15:07:10 <DKA> http://www.w3.org/2010/06/23-swxg-minutes.html
15:07:37 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #swxg
15:07:38 <DKA> RESOLUTION: Approve last week's minutes.
15:07:48 <bblfish> phew got it
15:08:03 <DKA> Agreed to meet again on the 7th.
15:08:17 <cperey> regrets, I will not be available 7, 14, 21 of july
15:08:19 <DKA> Topic: Final Report Action Update
15:08:50 <mischat> grrr i can't dial into the UK bristol number ... 
15:09:49 <caribou> Topic: Action Items
15:10:18 <Zakim> -cperey
15:10:21 <cperey> I've received feedback from Paul 
15:10:23 <cperey> oops!
15:10:32 <cperey> I disconnected myself so Henry better go first
15:10:33 <caribou> Dan: Gap analysis...
15:11:05 <caribou> Henry: is there a detailed description of that?
15:11:21 <Zakim> +cperey
15:11:52 <tinkster> mischat: Bristol and Nice numbers for Zakim haven't been working for a few weeks!
15:12:24 <mischat> thanks toby
15:12:58 <caribou> Henry: I can make something up in this space
15:13:15 <caribou> ... is there a bit more details about what you mean?
15:13:15 <cperey> yes, several gaps
15:13:32 <caribou> Dan: gaps where no standards exist yet
15:13:33 <cperey> that is the gap analysis which is most important
15:14:18 <cperey> there was also the task of identifying where there are standards but no agreement on which to use in which case
15:14:34 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:14:41 <danbri> zakim, [IPcaller] is danbri
15:14:41 <Zakim> +danbri; got it
15:14:43 <rreck> rreck has joined #SWXG
15:14:48 <rreck> me too
15:15:53 <rreck> are we meeting?
15:15:53 <DKA> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories
15:16:18 <DKA> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/OneLiners
15:16:33 <DKA> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/OneLiners
15:16:45 <DKA> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/RequirementsAndUseCases
15:17:30 <caribou> Henry: is there a method or procedure?
15:17:36 <caribou> Christine: yes
15:17:42 <cperey> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalReportElementsDiscussion
15:18:03 <Zakim> + +1.218.296.aadd
15:18:14 <rreck> zakim,  +1.218.296.aadd is me
15:18:14 <Zakim> +rreck; got it
15:18:18 <rreck> zakim, mute me
15:18:18 <Zakim> rreck should now be muted
15:18:20 <caribou> ... Dan has drafted an intro
15:19:06 <caribou> ... link your draft there, in part V.
15:19:18 <DKA> ACTION: Henry to take a stab at gap analysis and add to part V on the wiki link above.
15:19:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-147 - Take a stab at gap analysis and add to part V on the wiki link above. [on Henry Story - due 2010-07-07].
15:20:40 <caribou> ??: we need a link to the map of technologies
15:21:06 <cperey> One could go through the inputs from all speakers (technology experts)
15:21:17 <danbri> ideally some kind of crafty visualisation needed... but quite hard!
15:21:26 <caribou> Dan: gap between use cases and existing technologies
15:21:47 <bblfish> friend relations
15:21:50 <danbri> http://ostatus.org/ "OStatus lets people on different social networks follow each other. "
15:21:55 <bblfish> we came up with a ping protocol to make friends
15:21:57 <bblfish> let me find it
15:22:16 <danbri> ostatus = Activity Streams + PubSubHubbub + Salmon + Webfinger
15:22:21 <bblfish> http://esw.w3.org/Pingback
15:22:41 <cperey> Agreed
15:22:51 <cperey> perhaps we should go through the State of Social Web
15:23:01 <DKA> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/OneLiners
15:23:30 <DKA> ACTION: Dan to add material to report around OneLiners and Guest Speaker input.
15:23:30 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Dan
15:23:30 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. dappelqu, danbri)
15:23:51 <caribou> Henry: we can find out if we missed use cases or technologies
15:24:25 <DKA> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Business-considerations-section-draft
15:24:32 <caribou> DKA: Business case. Christine?
15:24:43 <caribou> Christine: in the wiki page
15:24:55 <cperey> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Business-considerations-section-draft
15:25:05 <DKA> ACTION: Dan Appelquist to add material to report around OneLiners and Guest Speaker input.
15:25:05 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Dan
15:25:05 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. dappelqu, danbri)
15:25:13 <DKA> ACTION: Appelquist to add material to report around OneLiners and Guest Speaker input.
15:25:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-148 - Add material to report around OneLiners and Guest Speaker input. [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2010-07-07].
15:25:22 <caribou> Christine: it covers the basis
15:25:39 <caribou> DKA: complete?
15:26:30 <danbri> re " Observers have speculated that Facebook," ... is it possible to cite sources here? 
15:26:50 <danbri> is it the same src as "Inside Facebook blog" cited for fig1?
15:27:17 <caribou> Christine: suggests identity management services, content management services
15:27:24 <bblfish> are there any use cases for software providers?
15:27:39 <danbri> (thanks!)
15:27:45 <caribou> ... things in the PDF not in wiki
15:27:58 <danbri> (no further comments from me right now)
15:28:00 <caribou> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/File:Chapter_VI_Business_Considerations.pdf
15:29:20 <caribou> Christine: if we can't propose business opportunities, it will not be successful
15:31:21 <danbri> re Why matters? a few years ago MySpace was the giant. Then Orkut (from giant Google), who took over from Friendster, who grew big as SixDegrees.com faded into history. Just as in search, AltaVista once seemed unassailable. So assuming it is now Facebook forever isn't supported by history...
15:31:22 <caribou> DKA: maybe we can get some people, e.g. FB to comment
15:33:03 <caribou> Christine: if we don't have ability to maintain current business model, i.e. advertising, we need to combine with new ones
15:33:19 <danbri> re not preserving advertising ... danger of 'proving' (by analogy) that bittorrent could never exist, since the content businesses need advertising to survive
15:33:43 <caribou> ... so identity management, profile management services....
15:33:57 <bblfish> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=994DvSJZyww&feature=channel
15:34:00 <caribou> ... we can probably ask someone from FB to read the document and comment
15:34:04 <danbri> q+ to note that some businesses *will* fail, in part due to new tech landscape
15:36:08 <caribou> Henry: Metcalfe's law shows the value of a network
15:37:01 <caribou> ... you can calculate the value
15:37:18 <caribou> Christine: I don't think all have a convertible value
15:37:19 <danbri> (are nodes people, or accounts?)
15:37:44 <caribou> Henry: look at the big players and take their yearly budget
15:37:56 <caribou> ... add up together
15:39:06 <danbri> bblfish, http://www.wheredoesmymoneygo.org/dashboard/#/uk-bubble-chart/focus=02-02.1&year=2010-11 :)
15:39:20 <caribou> Christine: I won't be doing that.
15:40:07 <Zakim> -Henry
15:40:20 <DKA> ack danbri
15:40:20 <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to note that some businesses *will* fail, in part due to new tech landscape
15:40:42 <caribou> danbri: the tech landscape is moving very quickly
15:40:53 <caribou> ... nobody knows in advance
15:41:07 <bblfish1> bblfish1 has joined #swxg
15:41:08 <caribou> ... the current businesses need Ads to continue
15:41:52 <caribou> ... if you look at the content industry, it's possible that decentralized system will cut down existing systems
15:42:03 <Zakim> +Henry
15:42:06 <bblfish1> hi
15:42:16 <caribou> christine: existing businesses can be damaged by social web?
15:42:17 <bblfish1> connection broke
15:42:35 <MacTed> seems not so much *businesses* but *business models*
15:42:45 <caribou> danbri: yes. If there's success for OpenSocial, e.g., it could damage existing SN
15:43:03 <bblfish1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe's_law
15:44:20 <danbri> for the various scenarios, q of what costs need covering
15:44:22 <caribou> Henry: look at what's missing and you see the opportunities
15:44:25 <rreck> i agree social networking software to companies
15:44:39 <caribou> ... e.g. selling SN software/maintainance to companies
15:44:51 <caribou> ... specific tools
15:45:04 <rreck> a SN oriented at trust/veracity
15:45:11 <caribou> ... with lots of privacy rules
15:45:33 <caribou> ... it would be a big new opportunity. It's not just advertising
15:46:04 <caribou> Christine: this paper focusses on consumer market, not enterprise
15:46:20 <caribou> Henry: there are other markets
15:46:23 <rreck> research is a good one
15:47:01 <danbri> statusnet (evan p, one of our guests) are very much in area of corporate social networks
15:47:17 <danbri> -> http://status.net/products
15:47:44 <caribou> DKA: will take an action to balance that
15:49:03 <caribou> danbri: anybody attending ???
15:49:07 <caribou> DKA: may go
15:50:01 <bblfish1> so other markets: health care (doctor and patiens and hostpitals, etc..), research, business to buisness to customer, defense, law, … each of these are social networks that need to be open to other players - I think we also spoke of managment of catastrophes during the initial meeting.
15:50:02 <rreck> i would help reading/editing content if that helps, someone email me rreck@rrecktek.com
15:50:02 <caribou> Christine: we could work on the section that Harry put together
15:50:10 <cperey> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/StateOfSocialWeb
15:50:31 <rreck> phone dying
15:50:31 <danbri> (sorry had to drop; the ostatus etc meeting looks very interesting, i'll try to make some technical submission to it remotely)
15:50:56 <rreck> thanks for all your efforts cperey
15:51:29 <caribou> christine: I think Privacy should not be the key functionality of new social web sites
15:51:34 <Zakim> -rreck
15:51:39 <caribou> s/sites//
15:51:57 <caribou> ... would rather point to data portability
15:52:14 <caribou> ... look back at my paper
15:52:31 <cperey> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/SocialWebFrameworks2#Social_Graph_Management_Today
15:52:56 <caribou> DKA: agree that privacy should not be the first thing
15:53:58 <caribou> [probably not the first priority for businesses, but what about the users?]
15:55:04 <DKA> q?
15:55:08 <caribou> DKA: go ahead and edit
15:55:20 <mischat> :)
15:55:53 <bblfish1> yes
15:57:13 <bblfish> data ownership is also wrong
15:57:19 <mischat> :)
15:57:19 <bblfish> control is more correct
15:57:20 <danbri> all these services have APIs lately; being able to get at the data is easy
15:57:23 <danbri> yes, it's about control
15:57:25 <bblfish> you can't own data
15:57:27 <bblfish> really
15:57:36 <danbri> which takes us towards dns imho, as profiles are tied to uris are tied to dns, typically
15:58:01 <DKA> Who can take an action to help flesh out http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/StateOfSocialWeb
15:58:07 <DKA> mischat?
15:58:09 <caribou> EU directives use the terms data suject and data controller
15:58:10 <bblfish> I think speech act theory is the place to look
15:58:29 <mischat> DKA: I can, have been writing stuff in that space anyways 
15:58:46 <mischat> can spend a day on it before next meeting
15:58:52 <mischat> am guessing this doc : http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/StateOfSocialWeb
15:58:53 <DKA> action: mischa to add some material to http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/StateOfSocialWeb
15:58:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-149 - Add some material to http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/StateOfSocialWeb [on Mischa Tuffield - due 2010-07-07].
15:59:03 <mischat> DKA: come on 5 more ;)
15:59:16 <caribou> s/DKA:/DKA,/
15:59:17 <caribou> s/DKA:/DKA,/
15:59:27 <mischat> ok
16:00:12 <bblfish> did you add a action for me?
16:00:14 <Zakim> -DKA
16:00:16 <Zakim> -danbri
16:00:18 <Zakim> -cperey
16:00:19 <Zakim> -Carine
16:00:21 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:00:24 <bblfish> well no
16:00:28 <bblfish> bye
16:00:29 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.510.931.aaaa, +1.781.273.aabb, DKA, MacTed, Henry, Carine, +1.617.848.aacc, cperey, danbri, rreck
16:00:32 <DKA> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:00:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-swxg-minutes.html DKA
16:00:37 <caribou> Scribe: carine
16:00:42 <DKA> rrsagent, make minutes public
16:00:42 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', DKA.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:00:47 <Zakim> -Henry
16:00:47 <caribou> RRSAgent, make logs member
16:00:48 <DKA> rrsagent, make logs public
16:00:48 <Zakim> INC_SWXG()11:00AM has ended
16:00:49 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.510.931.aaaa, +1.781.273.aabb, DKA, MacTed, Henry, Carine, +1.617.848.aacc, cperey, danbri, rreck
16:00:54 <mischat> DKA: am messing around with onesocialweb at the moment 
16:01:05 <caribou> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:01:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-swxg-minutes.html caribou
16:01:07 <mischat> s/DKA:/DKA./
16:01:14 <caribou> RRSAgent, stop logging
16:01:14 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop logging', caribou.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:01:20 <mischat> is that your doing, DKA ?
16:01:31 <mischat> are the devs based in London per chance ?
16:01:31 <caribou> RRSAgent, bye
16:01:31 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-swxg-actions.rdf :
16:01:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Henry to take a stab at gap analysis and add to part V on the wiki link above. [1]
16:01:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-swxg-irc#T15-19-18
16:01:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Dan to add material to report around OneLiners and Guest Speaker input. [2]
16:01:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-swxg-irc#T15-23-30
16:01:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Dan Appelquist to add material to report around OneLiners and Guest Speaker input. [3]
16:01:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-swxg-irc#T15-25-05
16:01:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Appelquist to add material to report around OneLiners and Guest Speaker input. [4]
16:01:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-swxg-irc#T15-25-13
16:01:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: mischa to add some material to http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/StateOfSocialWeb [5]
16:01:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-swxg-irc#T15-58-53
16:01:45 <DKA> ciao
16:01:54 <mischat> nooo