15:51:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdb2rdf
15:51:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-rdb2rdf-irc
15:51:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:51:37 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdb2rdf
15:51:39 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7322733
15:51:39 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
15:51:40 <trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:51:40 <trackbot> Date: 29 June 2010
15:51:43 <mhausenblas> Chair: Michael
15:52:01 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2010Jun/0063.html
15:53:00 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Boris
15:53:10 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Wolfgang
15:53:21 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Marcelo
15:53:29 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Li Ma
15:53:34 <mhausenblas> Zakim, draft minutes
15:53:34 <Zakim> I don't understand 'draft minutes', mhausenblas
15:53:42 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:53:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:54:02 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:57:02 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office
15:57:02 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
15:57:03 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
15:57:04 <Zakim> +EricP
15:57:17 <mhausenblas> Zakim, pick a victim
15:57:17 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose EricP
15:57:23 <mhausenblas> hehe
15:57:30 <ericP> hey, wait a minute!
15:58:15 <mhausenblas> Zakim, code
15:58:15 <Zakim> I don't understand 'code', mhausenblas
15:58:19 <mhausenblas> Zakim, code?
15:58:19 <Zakim> the conference code is 7322733 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), mhausenblas
15:58:29 <Zakim> + +3539149aaaa
15:58:29 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
15:58:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see EricP, +3539149aaaa
15:58:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, cygri, MacTed, LeeF, nunolopes, mhausenblas, trackbot, iv_an_ru, ericP
15:58:32 <Seema> Seema has joined #rdb2rdf
15:58:38 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaaa is me
15:58:38 <Zakim> +mhausenblas; got it
15:59:07 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #rdb2rdf
15:59:17 <soeren> soeren has joined #RDB2RDF
15:59:50 <juansequeda> juansequeda has joined #RDB2RDF
16:00:15 <Zakim> + +49.322.222.0.aabb
16:00:30 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aabbb is soeren 
16:00:30 <Zakim> sorry, mhausenblas, I do not recognize a party named 'aabbb'
16:00:56 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aacc
16:00:58 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aabb is soeren 
16:00:58 <Zakim> +soeren; got it
16:01:00 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:01:16 <Zakim> +Kingsley_Idehen
16:01:21 <Seema> Zakim, aacc is Seema
16:01:21 <Zakim> +Seema; got it
16:01:34 <MacTed> Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software
16:01:34 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it
16:01:34 <mhausenblas> Zakim, IPcaller is cygri 
16:01:36 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
16:01:40 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:01:40 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
16:01:41 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who' here?
16:01:41 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, mhausenblas.
16:01:43 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
16:01:43 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:01:44 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
16:01:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see EricP, mhausenblas, soeren, Seema, cygri, MacTed (muted)
16:01:46 <nunolopes> Zakim, nunolopes is with	mhausenblas
16:01:46 <Zakim> +nunolopes; got it
16:01:49 <Zakim> On IRC I see juansequeda, soeren, Ashok, Seema, Zakim, RRSAgent, cygri, MacTed, LeeF, nunolopes, mhausenblas, trackbot, iv_an_ru, ericP
16:01:52 <Zakim> -soeren
16:02:03 <mhausenblas> Zakim, nunolopes is with mhausenblas 
16:02:03 <Zakim> nunolopes was already listed in mhausenblas, mhausenblas
16:02:05 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
16:02:36 <Zakim> +soeren
16:02:38 <Ashok> regrets: LiMa, Wolfgang, Boris, Marcelo
16:02:41 <juansequeda> dialing in a few min
16:02:58 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:02:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:03:16 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
16:03:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see EricP, mhausenblas, Seema, cygri, MacTed (muted), Ashok_Malhotra, soeren (muted)
16:03:19 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, nunolopes
16:03:21 <Zakim> On IRC I see juansequeda, soeren, Ashok, Seema, Zakim, RRSAgent, cygri, MacTed, LeeF, nunolopes, mhausenblas, trackbot, iv_an_ru, ericP
16:03:22 <cygri_> cygri_ has joined #rdb2rdf
16:03:30 <mhausenblas> scribenick: ericP 
16:04:12 <mhausenblas> Topic: 1. Admin
16:04:27 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of the F2F meeting, see http://www.w3.org/2010/06/20-rdb2rdf-f2f-minutes.html
16:04:42 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:04:56 <mhausenblas> Zakim, IPcaller is juansequeda 
16:04:56 <Zakim> +juansequeda; got it
16:05:09 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
16:05:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see EricP, mhausenblas, Seema, cygri, MacTed (muted), Ashok_Malhotra, soeren (muted), juansequeda
16:05:11 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, nunolopes
16:05:13 <Zakim> On IRC I see cygri, juansequeda, soeren, Ashok, Seema, Zakim, RRSAgent, MacTed, LeeF, nunolopes, mhausenblas, trackbot, iv_an_ru, ericP
16:05:19 <cygri> +1
16:05:37 <mhausenblas> RESOLVED: Accept the minutes of the F2F meeting, see http://www.w3.org/2010/06/20-rdb2rdf-f2f-minutes.html
16:05:44 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:05:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:05:56 <ericP> Ashok: kudos to harry for cleaning minutes
16:06:13 <Zakim> + +046128aadd
16:06:48 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/open
16:06:52 <angela> angela has joined #rdb2rdf
16:06:55 <ericP> Zakim, +046128aadd is angela
16:06:55 <Zakim> +angela; got it
16:07:32 <ericP> mhausenblas: i cleaned up f2f-related actions and changed the due date for remaining actions to next week
16:07:57 <Zakim> +Souri
16:08:08 <mhausenblas> Topic: Report on SemTech 2010 panel
16:08:31 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
16:08:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see EricP, mhausenblas, Seema, cygri, MacTed (muted), Ashok_Malhotra, soeren (muted), juansequeda, angela, Souri
16:08:33 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, nunolopes
16:08:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see angela, cygri, juansequeda, soeren, Ashok, Seema, Zakim, RRSAgent, MacTed, LeeF, nunolopes, mhausenblas, trackbot, iv_an_ru, ericP
16:08:54 <ericP> Ashok: souri, juansequeda and cygri were at the panel
16:09:20 <ericP> juansequeda: the public is looking forward to a standard mapping language
16:09:28 <ericP> mhausenblas: what sort of audience?
16:09:57 <ericP> souri: good turn-out (more than SPARQL) in a large conference room
16:10:24 <ericP> ... no question about whether a standard is necesary
16:10:40 <ericP> ... heard "how will you do inference?"
16:11:00 <ericP> ... said "the inferred data can sit in a triple store and the asserted data in relational tables"
16:11:25 <ericP> ... that question from a fellow from gallery systems in new york (they manage museums)
16:11:47 <ericP> juansequeda: audience was mostly industry. i talked with someone from chevron
16:12:08 <ericP> cygri: after the panel, i heard questions about timeframe for spec and implementations
16:12:22 <ericP> ... indicates (industry) eagerness
16:12:53 <ericP> mhausenblas: did any new faces show up with implementations or use cases?
16:12:57 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdb2rdf
16:13:25 <ericP> ... e.g. someone from wordpress giving a requirement
16:13:51 <ericP> dan: heard a request that UC&R include OLAP application
16:15:03 <ericP> juansequeda: i asked folks to look over UC&R and email on the comments list
16:15:04 <juansequeda> ACTION dan: work on UC&R on OLAP application
16:15:04 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - dan
16:15:19 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Dan to work on UC&R on OLAP application
16:15:19 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Dan
16:15:19 <ericP> mhausenblas: did we hear from IBM or MS?
16:15:35 <ericP> [no]
16:15:48 <juansequeda> ACTION miranker:  work on UC&R on OLAP application
16:15:48 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - miranker
16:15:54 <ericP> mhausenblas: sounds like we're motivated to finish quickly
16:16:22 <ericP> juansequeda: we heard "will there be write?"
16:16:25 <Ashok> Dan, what's your moniker on Zakim
16:16:31 <ericP> ... answered "we're chartered for read-only"
16:17:04 <ericP> ACTION: ddanielm to work on UC&R on OLAP application
16:17:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-69 - Work on UC&R on OLAP application [on Daniel Daniel Miranker - due 2010-07-06].
16:17:58 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Michael to slap Eric very soon
16:17:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-70 - Slap Eric very soon [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2010-07-06].
16:18:13 <mhausenblas> close ACTION-70
16:18:13 <trackbot> ACTION-70 Slap Eric very soon closed
16:18:43 <ericP> topic: report of F2F meeting
16:19:10 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:19:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:19:25 <ericP> Ashok: would have been better with more attendance, but we did what we could
16:19:53 <ericP> ... started with talk by juansequeda and dan about using the appropriate terminology vis a vis ontologies etc.
16:20:06 <ericP> ... action 68 records an action for them to write that up
16:20:22 <ericP> ... souri introduced SQL approach:
16:20:30 <ericP> ... .. 3 kinds of statements
16:20:41 <ericP> ... .. .. this class can be populated with this SQL view
16:20:53 <ericP> ... .. .. this *data* can be populated with this SQL view
16:21:02 <ericP> ... .. .. constraint statement
16:21:20 <ericP> ... we need to create a syntax and write this up as a starting point
16:21:53 <ericP> ... issue: must the class be expressed? (cygri's question)
16:22:23 <ericP> ... cygri discussed RDF-based approach
16:22:29 <ericP> ... made some progress
16:23:00 <ericP> ... RDF-based approach is really mapping SQL to a default mapping and then default to the desired ontology
16:23:34 <ericP> ... some of the functionality requires SPARQL11 (still in progress)
16:23:49 <ericP> ... we can translate from the SQL statement to the RDF syntax
16:24:04 <MacTed> Zakim, who's making noise?
16:24:10 <ericP> ... if this is possible, we don't need two totally difference approaches
16:24:15 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: mhausenblas (4%), Ashok_Malhotra (44%), angela (51%)
16:24:23 <ericP> ... seemed like a good idea to me
16:24:23 <MacTed> Zakim, mute angela
16:24:23 <Zakim> angela should now be muted
16:24:30 <mhausenblas> q?
16:25:55 <ericP> ... do we want to write this up?
16:26:31 <ericP> ericP: not much to write; it's directMapping + perhaps some defined RIF or SPARQL functions to bi-map node transformations
16:26:51 <ericP> juansequeda: dan and i chatted with Harold Boley
16:27:05 <ericP> ... (of RuleML, RIF)
16:27:47 <ericP> ... i think we're pretty close to done if we finish the direct mapping
16:28:10 <ericP> ... the syntax needs to be done, but the semantics is all done for us
16:28:47 <Zakim> -soeren
16:29:08 <ericP> ... given Direct_Mapping_in_RIF, we already have the semantics
16:29:27 <MacTed> vindication!  :-)
16:29:29 <Zakim> +soeren
16:29:48 <ericP> ... marcelo says we can write the semantics with datalog
16:30:28 <ericP> cygri: of the semantics and syntax, the semantics is simple
16:30:37 <ericP> ... the syntax is still hard and undone
16:31:05 <ericP> ... whatever approach we come up with, the semantics should be do-able
16:31:11 <ericP> q+ to propose syntax
16:31:31 <ericP> juansequeda: i'd still like to create a group to write the semantics
16:31:47 <ericP> ... i'll work on it with dan and marcello
16:33:05 <ericP> ericP: is http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directGraph/ insufficient?
16:33:18 <ericP> cygri: folks seem to mean two things:
16:33:23 <ericP> ... .. data mapping
16:33:26 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who'd making noise?
16:33:26 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, mhausenblas.
16:33:27 <ericP> ... .. schema mapping
16:33:31 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's making noise?
16:33:42 <Zakim> mhausenblas, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: soeren (42%), EricP (45%)
16:33:51 <mhausenblas> mute soeren 
16:33:57 <mhausenblas> Zakim, mute soeren 
16:33:57 <Zakim> soeren should now be muted
16:33:58 <soeren> Zakim, mute soeren
16:33:58 <Zakim> soeren was already muted, soeren
16:34:08 <ericP> ericP: how is the generated schema used?
16:34:08 <soeren> sorry
16:34:23 <ericP> juansequeda: it's the only source we have
16:34:53 <ericP> ... when you decide something is a class, you need to make it explicit
16:35:27 <ericP> ... the directGraph is insufficient 'cause it doens't include the schema
16:35:50 <ericP> cygri: "insufficient" must mean insufficient for some purpose
16:36:01 <ericP> ... what use cases does the data mapping not meet?
16:36:21 <ericP> dan: right, we don't need the schema semantics to be expressed in OWL or RDFS
16:36:44 <ericP> ... but if we're going to develop a meaning for this mapping, they must be represented
16:37:06 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
16:37:06 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
16:37:59 <cygri> ericP: having the schema explicit is nice because it serves as documentation for querying
16:38:42 <cygri> ericP: another use case could be: machines can do faceted browsing or assisted exploration of the data
16:38:56 <cygri> ericP: but i believe those are secondary to creating the data mapping itself
16:39:33 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:39:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:39:42 <ericP> dan: after the vendors implement the standard, we need to allow folks *not* on the committee to e.g. say "this table name appears here"
16:39:56 <Souri> Without carefully going thru the high volume data (sitting in relational tables), the only other way I can think of writing a SPARQL query against that data is to look at the RDFS/OWL schema that is the basis of the data
16:41:05 <ericP> ... we can't do our job without saying how an implementor will map symbols from the data to the interface
16:41:16 <ericP> cygri: but that's already written down
16:41:49 <ericP> dan: i'd like ericP to assert some correctness semantics 
16:41:59 <mhausenblas> q?
16:42:09 <mhausenblas> ack ericP 
16:42:09 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to propose syntax
16:43:27 <soeren> +soeren
16:43:36 <soeren> +q
16:44:01 <ericP> MacTed: a goal is to cross-join against e.g. SQL dbs
16:44:11 <mhausenblas> q?
16:44:16 <ericP> ... is field db1.x == db2.y?
16:44:37 <soeren> zakim, unmute me
16:44:37 <Zakim> soeren should no longer be muted
16:44:37 <mhausenblas> ack soeren 
16:45:17 <ericP> ... making the schema available is required to enable these cross-joins
16:46:19 <ericP> ... i think the directGraph is uninteresting until we map to an interface graph
16:46:37 <cygri> +1 to what soeren said
16:47:23 <soeren> zakim, mute me
16:47:23 <Zakim> soeren should now be muted
16:48:03 <mhausenblas> q?
16:48:18 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directGraph/
16:48:32 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directGraph/schema
16:48:53 <cygri> second one this? http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Direct_Mapping_in_RIF
16:48:57 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes 
16:48:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:50:24 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directGraph/schema no longer 404s
16:51:14 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/open
16:51:31 <mhausenblas> ACTION-66?
16:51:31 <trackbot> ACTION-66 -- Richard Cyganiak to document issues on the SQL-based approach due July 8 -- due 2010-07-06 -- OPEN
16:51:31 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/66
16:51:37 <ericP> topic: pending actions
16:52:05 <ericP> cygri: per 66, souri had some slides which gave an abstraction of the sql approach
16:52:51 <ericP> ... we discussed expressivity. i took an action for writing requirements for this approach
16:52:52 <mhausenblas> ACTION-67?
16:52:52 <trackbot> ACTION-67 -- Souripriya Das to write first draft of SQL-based approach due July 22 -- due 2010-07-06 -- OPEN
16:52:52 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/67
16:53:18 <ericP> Souri: per 67, will work on the SQL-based approach draft
16:53:38 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directGraph/Overview.xml
16:55:47 <Zakim> -soeren
16:56:11 <mhausenblas> ACTION-68?
16:56:11 <trackbot> ACTION-68 -- Juan Sequeda to write note on Ways to Leverage Ontologies due July 8 -- due 2010-07-06 -- OPEN
16:56:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/68
16:56:37 <ericP> juansequeda: per 68, when we utter "ontology" we mean different things
16:58:51 <mhausenblas> Topic: AOB
16:58:59 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Cancel call on 6 July 2010 due to holiday week in the US
16:59:00 <Souri> +1 to cancelling next week
16:59:18 <cygri> +1 to cancellign
16:59:20 <ericP> ericP: if i include e.g. FOAF, DCIM, uniprot, in an interface graph, do i have one ontology which includes all these other ontologies?
16:59:30 <ericP> juansequeda: that will come out with the document
16:59:48 <ericP> mhausenblas: how shall we proceed this summer?
16:59:57 <ericP> ... i'll be gone mid-july to mid-august
17:00:10 <ericP> ... make up your minds and be ready to discuss next week
17:00:21 <ericP> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:00:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-rdb2rdf-minutes.html ericP
17:00:28 <ericP> RRSAgent, please make log world-visible
17:00:29 <Zakim> -Souri
17:00:31 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
17:00:32 <Zakim> -MacTed
17:00:33 <Zakim> -angela
17:00:34 <Zakim> -Seema
17:00:34 <Zakim> -juansequeda
17:00:36 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
17:00:38 <Zakim> -EricP
17:00:38 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has ended
17:00:40 <Zakim> Attendees were EricP, +3539149aaaa, mhausenblas, +49.322.222.0.aabb, +1.603.897.aacc, soeren, Seema, cygri, MacTed, nunolopes, Ashok_Malhotra, juansequeda, angela, Souri
17:00:59 <mhausenblas> thanks a lot for scribing ericP !
17:01:07 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:01:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:01:45 <mhausenblas> ericP, one last favour please: send out the minutes for review, yes?
17:04:16 <mhausenblas> ok, gotta run - hope you find my message here, ericP :D
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20:28:33 <cygri> cygri has joined #rdb2rdf
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22:01:51 <cygri> cygri has joined #rdb2rdf
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