IRC log of html-wg on 2010-06-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:59:18 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-wg
15:59:18 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-html-wg-irc
15:59:20 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:59:20 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #html-wg
15:59:22 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be HTML
15:59:22 [Zakim]
HTML matches both WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM and HTML_WG()12:00PM
15:59:23 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
15:59:23 [trackbot]
Date: 24 June 2010
15:59:28 [rubys]
zakim, this will be HTML_WG
15:59:28 [Zakim]
ok, rubys, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
15:59:39 [Philip]
taptapir: It'll only halt if you do lots and lots of computation in the script, or use alert or synchronous XMLHttpRequest etc
15:59:40 [taptapir]
Philip: hmm that should work thanks
15:59:58 [Philip]
taptapir: Hmm, if you want to continue discussion then I suggest #whatwg on Freenode since it'll get noisy in here for a bit
16:00:25 [Zakim]
+Sam
16:00:28 [Julian]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:00:28 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Radhika_Roy, ??P12, Sam
16:00:30 [krisk]
krisk has joined #html-wg
16:00:37 [Zakim]
-??P12
16:00:39 [pimpbot]
bugmail: [Bug 10009] excellent thank you for all <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jun/0351.html> 4** [Bug 10010] excellent!!! thank you for all <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jun/0350.html> 4** [Bug 10010] New: excellent!!! thank you for all <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jun/0349.html> 4** [Bug 10009] New: excellent thank you for all <11http://lis
16:01:12 [Zakim]
+Michael_Cooper
16:01:28 [janina]
janina has joined #html-wg
16:01:34 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
16:01:40 [paulc]
paulc has joined #html-wg
16:01:40 [janina]
zakim, call janina
16:01:40 [Zakim]
ok, janina; the call is being made
16:01:41 [Mark]
Mark Foladare (Mark) fro AT&T is on the phone
16:01:42 [Zakim]
+Janina
16:01:43 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.850.aaaa
16:01:51 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.922.aabb
16:01:56 [paulc]
zakim, [Microsft] has paulc
16:01:56 [Zakim]
sorry, paulc, I do not recognize a party named '[Microsft]'
16:02:05 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft.a]
16:02:07 [Dzung_Tran]
Dzung_Tran has joined #html-wg
16:02:07 [paulc]
zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
16:02:07 [Zakim]
+paulc; got it
16:02:10 [adrianba]
zakim, aabb is me
16:02:10 [Zakim]
+adrianba; got it
16:02:13 [paulc]
scribe: paulc
16:02:33 [krisk]
zakim, [Microsoft.a] is krisk
16:02:33 [Zakim]
+krisk; got it
16:03:13 [Zakim]
+ +1.415.595.aacc
16:03:31 [mjs]
zakim, +1.415.595.aacc is me
16:03:31 [Zakim]
+mjs; got it
16:03:32 [Zakim]
+??P27
16:03:49 [MikeSmith]
zakim, call Mike
16:03:49 [Zakim]
ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
16:03:50 [Zakim]
+Mike
16:03:51 [Julian]
Zakim, +??P27 is me
16:03:51 [Zakim]
sorry, Julian, I do not recognize a party named '+??P27'
16:03:56 [rubys]
topic: ACTION items due by Thu Jun 24
16:04:03 [Julian]
Zakim, P27 is me
16:04:04 [Zakim]
sorry, Julian, I do not recognize a party named 'P27'
16:04:11 [Julian]
Zakim, ?P27 is me
16:04:11 [Zakim]
sorry, Julian, I do not recognize a party named '?P27'
16:04:12 [paulc]
No action items to discuss
16:04:16 [Julian]
Zakim, ??P27 is me
16:04:16 [Zakim]
+Julian; got it
16:04:24 [rubys]
topic: Items that close this week (by Thu Jun 24)
16:04:35 [rubys]
ISSUE-105?
16:04:36 [paulc]
issue-105?
16:05:11 [MichaelC]
MichaelC has joined #html-wg
16:05:15 [mjs]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/105
16:05:16 [pimpbot]
Title: ISSUE-105 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:05:33 [trackbot]
ISSUE-105 -- allow image maps on the canvas element -- open
16:05:35 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/105
16:05:36 [pimpbot]
Title: ISSUE-105 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:05:39 [trackbot]
ISSUE-105 -- allow image maps on the canvas element -- open
16:05:40 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/105
16:06:00 [paulc]
Status of 105: Objection from the Editor is being discussed.
16:06:30 [paulc]
The objection is being evaluated.
16:06:42 [paulc]
Janina: related to a proposal from Charles.
16:06:51 [paulc]
Janina: Should I report on this now?
16:07:16 [paulc]
Janina: A11Y TF made a proposal here which caused Charles to come forward.
16:07:39 [paulc]
Janina: The TF recommends that this discussion be done in the WG decision process.
16:08:14 [paulc]
Janina: It look like the people involved are working on another proposal which would include Charles's input.
16:08:57 [paulc]
No other discussion.
16:09:01 [paulc]
Issue-107?
16:09:01 [trackbot]
ISSUE-107 -- Politics in fallback example for plugin usage -- open
16:09:01 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/107
16:09:03 [pimpbot]
Title: ISSUE-107 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:09:35 [paulc]
This change proposal passed , the editor made a change not exactly matching the proposed change and the change was not made in the WHAT WG spec.
16:09:46 [paulc]
This is being discussed on the mailing list.
16:10:08 [paulc]
Issue is still Open until the WG decision is verified as being made.
16:10:09 [Zakim]
- +1.206.850.aaaa
16:10:16 [paulc]
Topic: New issues
16:10:27 [paulc]
None
16:10:33 [paulc]
Topic: New surveys
16:10:41 [rubys]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-30-objection-poll/
16:10:44 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.850.aadd
16:10:48 [paulc]
There are 2 new surveys for Issue 30 and 88
16:10:51 [paulc]
Issue-30?
16:10:51 [trackbot]
ISSUE-30 -- Should HTML 5 include a longdesc attribute for images -- open
16:10:51 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/30
16:10:53 [pimpbot]
Title: ISSUE-30 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:10:59 [paulc]
Issue-88?
16:10:59 [trackbot]
ISSUE-88 -- Should meta/@content allow a list of languages instead of just a single language? -- open
16:10:59 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/88
16:11:00 [pimpbot]
Title: ISSUE-88 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:11:07 [rubys]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-88-objection-poll/
16:11:16 [paulc]
Surveys opened June 23 and close on Wed Jun 30
16:11:19 [Laura]
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16:11:26 [paulc]
No discussion.
16:11:43 [paulc]
Topic Workgroup decisions
16:12:02 [Zakim]
+Laura_Carlson
16:12:05 [paulc]
Issues-93, 95, 96 and 97 are awaiting Chair decision. No progress to report.
16:12:09 [paulc]
Issue-93
16:12:15 [paulc]
Issue-93?
16:12:15 [trackbot]
ISSUE-93 -- Delete Details Element -- open
16:12:15 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/93
16:12:16 [pimpbot]
Title: ISSUE-93 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:12:20 [paulc]
Issue-95?
16:12:20 [trackbot]
ISSUE-95 -- Remove/Discard the Hidden Attribute -- open
16:12:20 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/95
16:12:22 [pimpbot]
Title: ISSUE-95 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:12:27 [paulc]
Issue-96?
16:12:27 [trackbot]
ISSUE-96 -- Remove/Discard the Progress Element -- open
16:12:27 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/96
16:12:28 [pimpbot]
Title: ISSUE-96 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:12:32 [paulc]
Issue-97?
16:12:32 [trackbot]
ISSUE-97 -- Remove/Discard the Meter Element -- open
16:12:32 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/97
16:12:34 [pimpbot]
Title: ISSUE-97 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:12:44 [laplink]
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16:12:46 [paulc]
No discussion.
16:13:01 [paulc]
Topic Heartbeat WDs and First Public WDs
16:13:10 [Dzung_Tran]
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16:13:34 [paulc]
Target publication date is today (Jun 24) and alternate date is Mon Jun 28
16:13:47 [paulc]
We should be good to go today?
16:14:06 [Eliot]
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16:14:13 [janina]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:14:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Radhika_Roy, Sam, Michael_Cooper, [Microsoft], Janina, adrianba, krisk, mjs, Julian, Mike, +1.206.850.aadd, Laura_Carlson
16:14:13 [rubys]
MikeSmith?
16:14:15 [Zakim]
[Microsoft] has paulc
16:14:22 [paulc]
MikeSmith: Are we good to go with the publications today?
16:14:50 [paulc]
Topic: Task Force Reports
16:14:59 [paulc]
A11Y TF report:
16:15:26 [paulc]
Janina: We discussed canvas-usemap earlier in the call (issue-105)
16:15:45 [paulc]
Janina: ARIA mappings sub-group has provided the TF a report
16:15:51 [richardschwerdtfe]
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16:16:04 [Eliot]
zakim, +1.206.850.aadd is me
16:16:04 [Zakim]
+Eliot; got it
16:16:13 [paulc]
Janina: The recommendation is to re-write a complete section (3.2.4.6?)
16:16:45 [paulc]
Janina: There is questiona about whether there should be individual bugs filed for each low level change in light of the desire to do a complete re-write
16:16:57 [paulc]
Correction: section number is 3.2.6
16:17:35 [paulc]
Janina: The TF feels there was little Accessibility expert input on this section and thus the desire to re-write the entire section.
16:17:53 [Zakim]
+Rich
16:18:00 [paulc]
Janina: How do we do this in face of the current WG Decision Policy?
16:18:15 [paulc]
Janina: A11Y TF is looking for guidance.
16:18:25 [paulc]
Sam: The minimum is at least one bug.
16:18:47 [paulc]
Maciej: I believe that 10 or 100's is required.
16:19:06 [paulc]
Correction: Maciej: I believe that 10 or 100 is NOT required.
16:19:47 [Laura]
ISSUE-35: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/35
16:19:47 [trackbot]
ISSUE-35 Need to define processing requirements for aria states and properties when used in html notes added
16:19:48 [pimpbot]
Title: ISSUE-35 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:19:52 [Laura]
ISSUE-14: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/14
16:19:52 [trackbot]
ISSUE-14 Integration of WAI-ARIA roles into HTML5 notes added
16:19:53 [pimpbot]
Title: ISSUE-14 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:20:03 [paulc]
Janina: Issues 14 and 35 might be appropriate bugs to reference. They are closed.
16:20:17 [paulc]
Sam: Why cannot we start with new bugs?
16:20:55 [paulc]
Sam: A single bug with the rationale for the entire re-write is the "minimum" required here.
16:21:21 [paulc]
Janina: Okay I will take this back to the TF.
16:22:02 [paulc]
Paul: We should be looking for the "minimum required to declare victory" AND to be in sync with the Decision Policy.
16:22:32 [paulc]
Janina: Working on media accessibility - the good news is that there appears to be more agreement than initially thought
16:22:59 [paulc]
Janina: Very please with Media Group progress.
16:23:12 [paulc]
Janina: Working on Drag and Drop
16:23:28 [paulc]
janina: Working on Access Key which is coming via PF WG.
16:23:28 [Zakim]
-Rich
16:24:22 [paulc]
Janina: No ETA's on the Media Group, Drag and Drop or Access Key issue change proposals.
16:25:11 [paulc]
Sam: Any more discussion.
16:25:16 [paulc]
No more discussion
16:25:24 [paulc]
Testing TF report:
16:25:56 [krisk]
Group Meets again on 6/29
16:26:08 [paulc]
Kris: more activity this month
16:26:18 [krisk]
Philip Taylor will be submitting a very large set of canvas tests
16:26:29 [krisk]
Microsoft has submitted a few batches of tests for Audio, Video, Canvas, XHTML5, getElementsByClassName and Selection
16:26:36 [krisk]
I hope for more participation and feedback on submitted test
16:26:47 [paulc]
1 Approved test with no bugs
16:27:28 [paulc]
TF has about 200 and is expecting another 800 canvas tests RSN
16:28:39 [krisk]
I hope for more participation and feedback on submitted test
16:28:41 [paulc]
Kris: Is hoping for more approved test in the future. We need feedback on the submitted tests.
16:28:48 [paulc]
Topic: Any other Business
16:28:55 [paulc]
issue-9?
16:28:58 [johnst]
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16:28:59 [trackbot]
ISSUE-9 -- how accessibility works for <video> is unclear -- open
16:29:01 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/9
16:29:03 [pimpbot]
Title: ISSUE-9 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:29:26 [paulc]
Janina: Document exists, survey was run in TF, trying to revise document in TF
16:29:59 [paulc]
Janina: There is effort to get agreement and the draft change proposal (V2) is being worked on.
16:30:05 [Laura]
Media Accessibility Requirements Survey: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirements/results
16:30:06 [pimpbot]
Title: Results of Questionnaire Review of Media Accessibility Requirements - Web-Based Straw-poll and Balloting System (at www.w3.org)
16:30:19 [paulc]
Janina: ETA for V2 change proposal is mid-July.
16:30:45 [paulc]
janina: Early fall for a "recommendation".
16:30:53 [paulc]
Sam: Target date was May 27.
16:30:57 [Laura]
Media Accessibility Requirements Draft: Media Accessibility Requirements
16:31:18 [Laura]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements
16:31:19 [pimpbot]
Title: Media Accessibility Requirements - HTML accessibility task force Wiki (at www.w3.org)
16:31:54 [paulc]
Janina: The May 27 date was for a Requirements document which was met.
16:33:06 [paulc]
Correction: references to "change proposal" should have been "requirements documents"
16:33:34 [paulc]
Janina: it is going to take several months to take the Requirements to one or more change proposals.
16:33:53 [rubys]
issue-9?
16:33:53 [trackbot]
ISSUE-9 -- how accessibility works for <video> is unclear -- open
16:33:53 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/9
16:33:55 [pimpbot]
Title: ISSUE-9 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:34:00 [paulc]
Sam: What do we do with the status of Issue-9?
16:34:27 [paulc]
Janina: It need to stay open since we need to add spec material on media accessibility.
16:34:40 [paulc]
Sam: Any other discussion.
16:34:44 [paulc]
No more discussion.
16:34:49 [paulc]
Issue-27?
16:34:49 [trackbot]
ISSUE-27 -- @rel value ownership, registry consideration -- open
16:34:49 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/27
16:34:51 [pimpbot]
Title: ISSUE-27 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:35:01 [Julian]
Iana status: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010AprJun/0022.html
16:35:02 [pimpbot]
Title: ISSUE-27, was: Fwd: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2010-07-24: issues, surveys, decisions, publication status, TF reports from Julian Reschke on 2010-06-23 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from April to June 2010) (at lists.w3.org)
16:35:16 [Julian]
q+
16:35:16 [paulc]
Sam: On hold for a registry - past Apr 13 hold date.
16:36:17 [paulc]
Julian: IANA is a bit confused about the spec description of the registry.
16:37:02 [paulc]
Julian: Not sure of this internal discussion but I suggest we test the registry once it is there.
16:37:25 [paulc]
Julian: The document for the link relationship needs to be prepared.
16:37:43 [paulc]
Ian and Lief have volunteered to test the registry but we still need to have access to it.
16:39:29 [paulc]
Action: on paulc to followup with Mark Nottingham about the status of the IANA registry needed for Issue-27
16:39:29 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - on
16:39:47 [paulc]
Action: paulc to followup with Mark Nottingham about the status of the IANA registry needed for Issue-27
16:39:48 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-182 - Followup with Mark Nottingham about the status of the IANA registry needed for Issue-27 [on Paul Cotton - due 2010-07-01].
16:40:45 [paulc]
Topic: Next meeting
16:40:49 [Julian]
On the IANA registry: I believe this is currently being discussed between IANA and IESG; not sure what the current status is.
16:41:28 [paulc]
Sam and Paul give regrets for Jul 1 - Sam is travelling, Paul is celebrating Canada Day
16:41:34 [Julian]
In any case, testing the registry will require a spec for a link relation, so I suggest those who want to test the registry to start preparing it.
16:41:34 [paulc]
Maciej will chair next week
16:41:41 [paulc]
Any volunteers to scribe?
16:41:48 [taptapir]
taptapir has left #html-wg
16:41:57 [paulc]
No volunteers.
16:42:14 [Laura]
bye
16:42:15 [Zakim]
-mjs
16:42:16 [paulc]
Topic: Adjournment
16:42:16 [Zakim]
-Julian
16:42:17 [Zakim]
-krisk
16:42:19 [Zakim]
-Janina
16:42:20 [Zakim]
-Sam
16:42:20 [Zakim]
-Eliot
16:42:22 [Zakim]
-Radhika_Roy
16:42:22 [Zakim]
-Laura_Carlson
16:42:23 [janina]
janina has left #html-wg
16:42:23 [Zakim]
-Michael_Cooper
16:42:25 [paulc]
Meeting adjourned at 12:42 ET
16:42:42 [Zakim]
-adrianba
16:43:11 [paulc]
rssagent, generate minutes
16:43:30 [rubys]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:43:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-html-wg-minutes.html rubys
16:46:13 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
16:47:51 [MichaelC]
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16:58:55 [pimpbot]
planet: Resize a Flash object via jQuery onload of page <11http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3111633/resize-a-flash-object-via-jquery-onload-of-page>
16:59:08 [arronei]
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17:31:04 [pimpbot]
bugmail: [Bug 10001] For <ol> and <ul>, it would be very useful to have an array containing all top-level elements of the list, such as 'HTMLOListElement.listItems' <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jun/0352.html>
17:31:26 [Zakim]
-Mike
17:31:27 [Zakim]
HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
17:31:29 [Zakim]
Attendees were Radhika_Roy, Sam, Michael_Cooper, Janina, +1.206.850.aaaa, +1.206.922.aabb, paulc, adrianba, krisk, mjs, Mike, Julian, Laura_Carlson, Eliot, Rich
17:40:03 [MikeSmith]
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18:31:20 [pimpbot]
changes: sam: Update 101 CP link <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Jun/0089.html>
18:57:56 [trackbot]
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19:27:31 [laplink]
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19:59:40 [pimpbot]
planet: Internet Explorer 9 destroys Chrome 6 in HTML5 speed test (video) <11http://www.reddit.com/r/browsers/comments/cins3/internet_explorer_9_destroys_chrome_6_in_html5/>
20:31:47 [pimpbot]
bugmail: [Bug 10011] New: "then the UA should obtain the resource" should say WHEN rel=stylesheet obtains the resource (when the element is created?) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jun/0353.html>
20:48:48 [tH]
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20:59:52 [pimpbot]
planet: Is there any way to embed a pdf file into an html5 page? <11http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3113334/is-there-any-way-to-embed-a-pdf-file-into-an-html5-page>
21:01:54 [pimpbot]
bugmail: [Bug 9965] White space in attributes - please justify why multiple spaces/linebreaks are problematic - or delete this requirement <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jun/0354.html>
21:30:52 [tH]
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21:32:01 [pimpbot]
bugmail: [Bug 9964] Namespaces section should be more explicit + touch the extensibility problem <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jun/0358.html> 4** [Bug 9965] White space in attributes - please justify why multiple spaces/linebreaks are problematic - or delete this requirement <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jun/0357.html> 4** [Bug 9962] Permitted Character Encodings should be UTF-8 (re
21:40:21 [tlr]
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22:02:08 [pimpbot]
bugmail: [Bug 9650] WHATWG Spec Web Site Freeze <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jun/0360.html> 4** [Bug 9965] White space in attributes - please justify why multiple spaces/linebreaks are problematic - or delete this requirement <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jun/0359.html>
22:32:14 [pimpbot]
changes: hixie: history update <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Jun/0090.html>
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