09:04:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag
09:04:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-mediafrag-irc
09:04:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
09:04:48 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mediafrag
09:04:50 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
09:04:50 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()5:00AM scheduled to start 4 minutes ago
09:04:51 <trackbot> Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
09:04:51 <trackbot> Date: 19 May 2010
09:06:11 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()5:00AM has now started
09:06:17 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
09:06:18 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
09:06:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas
09:06:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, raphael, mhausenblas, conrad, silvia, Yves, trackbot
09:06:24 <mhausenblas> hu? I'm the first? :)
09:06:39 <raphael> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010May/0028.html
09:06:43 <mhausenblas> people, it's 7 past the hour here :D
09:06:47 <mhausenblas> heya silvia 
09:07:27 <Zakim> +raphael
09:07:55 <raphael> Chair: Erik, Raphael
09:08:27 <raphael> Present: Michael, Raphael, Silvia
09:08:30 <raphael> Regrets: Davy
09:08:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:09:23 <Zakim> +Silvia
09:10:22 <raphael> scribenick: raphael
09:10:25 <raphael> Scribe: raphael
09:10:38 <silvia> zakim, mute me
09:10:38 <Zakim> Silvia should now be muted
09:10:43 <raphael> Topic: 1. Admin
09:11:03 <raphael> PROPOSED to accept the short minutes of the 12 May 2010 telecon: http://www.w3.org/2010/05/12-mediafrag-minutes.html ?
09:12:23 <silvia> +1
09:12:25 <raphael> +1
09:12:26 <mhausenblas> +1
09:13:14 <raphael> Next F2F meeting: Michael will not make it physically but will paticipate remotely
09:13:23 <raphael> Raphael will send details this afternoon
09:13:51 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
09:13:51 <Zakim> Silvia should no longer be muted
09:13:58 <raphael> Topic: 2. Specification
09:14:07 <raphael> ACTIOn-156?
09:14:07 <trackbot> ACTION-156 -- Conrad Parker to add a "bandwidth conservation use case" -- due 2010-03-16 -- OPEN
09:14:07 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/156
09:14:27 <raphael> Raphael: I will email Conrad about that ...
09:14:49 <raphael> ACTION-123?
09:14:49 <trackbot> ACTION-123 -- Silvia Pfeiffer to come up with ABNF for header syntax -- due 2009-12-09 -- OPEN
09:14:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/123
09:15:19 <raphael> Silvia: quite busy week, I haven't started, but I will do that tonight
09:15:29 <raphael> ... I do not expect difficulty, I will email this out
09:15:39 <raphael> ACTION-154?
09:15:39 <trackbot> ACTION-154 -- Davy Van Deursen to add a section 5.2.4 describing his new optimization -- due 2010-03-16 -- OPEN
09:15:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/154
09:15:45 <raphael> close ACTION-154
09:15:45 <trackbot> ACTION-154 Add a section 5.2.4 describing his new optimization closed
09:15:48 <erik> erik has joined #mediafrag
09:17:38 <raphael> Raphael: Davy has re-structured the section 5.2, is there any objections ?
09:17:44 <raphael> Silvia: no objection
09:17:47 <Zakim> +Erik
09:17:48 <raphael> Michael: no objections
09:18:33 <erik> rrsagent, draft minutes
09:18:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-mediafrag-minutes.html erik
09:18:53 <silvia> zakim, mute me
09:18:53 <Zakim> Silvia should now be muted
09:18:54 <raphael> Silvia: I agree that currently, codecs do not allow to address spatial fragment without transcoding
09:19:05 <raphael> ... so agree, it should happen with a query
09:19:26 <silvia> spatial fragment retrieval cannot be done with byte ranges right now because current media formats and codecs don't allow it
09:19:32 <silvia> but it may be possible in future
09:19:45 <raphael> ... if there is a fragment, #xywh= ... then, no request issued, client might highlight a region if it has all the data
09:20:26 <raphael> Raphael: I will buzz Jack for the action 137
09:20:47 <raphael> Topic: 3. Test Cases
09:21:07 <raphael> ACTION-163?
09:21:07 <trackbot> ACTION-163 -- Raphaël Troncy to send a resolution on handling non-existing or illegal fragments to the mailinglist -- due 2010-05-19 -- OPEN
09:21:07 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/163
09:22:05 <raphael> close ACTION-163
09:22:05 <trackbot> ACTION-163 Send a resolution on handling non-existing or illegal fragments to the mailinglist closed
09:22:18 <raphael> Raphael: see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010May/0031.html
09:23:15 <raphael> Michael: no more work on corrib yet
09:23:43 <raphael> ... so I would still need one week to complete and give the ball to Erik
09:24:18 <raphael> Raphael: what is the plan exactly?
09:24:39 <raphael> ACTION-146?
09:24:39 <trackbot> ACTION-146 -- Jack Jansen to identify and add in corrib any missing test cases for temporal fragments -- due 2010-03-03 -- OPEN
09:24:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/146
09:25:47 <raphael> Michael: the question is really, can we really have an automated test suite ?
09:25:59 <raphael> ... if not, then corrib is of little use
09:27:41 <raphael> Raphael: my proposal would be to change the action 146 assigned to Jack to a thorough review of http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TemporalDimension
09:28:04 <raphael> ... then, someone needs to add them into Corrib
09:28:20 <raphael> Erik: I miss what can be automatized also
09:28:22 <mhausenblas> http://ld2sd.deri.org/corrib/corrib.php?export=v1-mediafrag&format=rdf-xml
09:28:46 <mhausenblas> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/test-suite/
09:30:51 <raphael> Erik: I should talk to my implementers to see if this can be of use
09:30:53 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
09:30:53 <Zakim> Silvia should no longer be muted
09:31:55 <raphael> ACTION: Erik to report to the group whether such an approach from RDFa test suite can be used for automatically testing the media fragment specification
09:31:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-164 - Report to the group whether such an approach from RDFa test suite can be used for automatically testing the media fragment specification [on Erik Mannens - due 2010-05-26].
09:34:20 <mhausenblas> http://ngrep.sourceforge.net/
09:34:35 <silvia> ngrep or tcpdump are good tools for monitoring connections
09:36:34 <raphael> Silvia: I think whatever plugin you have for the browser, testing if the plugins does the real thing can only be tested with one of these tools
09:37:30 <raphael> Erik: maybe we can make a summer project for this
09:38:25 <silvia> what you would require is a commandline tool that pulls in what is an expected HTTP exchange sequence from a media fragment request (which could come from corrib) and check with what actually goes over the wire
09:38:42 <silvia> those tools can help with monitoring what actually goes over the wire
09:39:10 <silvia> zakim, mute me
09:39:10 <Zakim> Silvia should now be muted
09:40:51 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
09:40:51 <Zakim> Silvia should no longer be muted
09:40:55 <raphael> Topic: 4. AOB
09:41:43 <raphael> Silvia: Let's discuss your email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010May/0034.html
09:44:48 <raphael> Raphael: I think as soon as a fragment is requested, we cannot have a 200 answer, so MUST be a 206
09:48:56 <raphael> ... I think if there is a #t= ... then a Range request should be issued, even if the fragment happens to be the entire resource
09:51:00 <mhausenblas> ok, re ACTION-147 -  new people are added
09:51:01 <mhausenblas> see http://ld2sd.deri.org/corrib/sparql.php?query=SELECT+DISTINCT+%3Fs++FROM+%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2008%2FWebVideo%2FFragments%2FContributor%2F%3E+WHERE+{%0D%0A++%3Fs+%3Fp+%3Fo+.%0D%0A}%0D%0ALIMIT+10&output=htmltab&jsonp=&key=&show_inline=1
09:53:47 <raphael> You should put: http://identi.ca/conradparker owl:sameAs http://identi.ca/user/31499
09:55:16 <raphael> ... http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/Contributor/JackJansen owl:sameAs http://twitter.com/hackerjack60
09:56:29 <raphael> Controversial issue about #01 and #04 ... whether a range request should be send at all or not ?
09:56:44 <raphael> Raphael: I will mention this to Jack when he is reviewing the spec
09:57:54 <silvia> zakim, mute me
09:57:54 <Zakim> Silvia should now be muted
09:58:08 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
09:58:08 <Zakim> Silvia should no longer be muted
09:58:14 <raphael> Open Video Conference: http://www.openvideoconference.org/?l=en
09:58:34 <raphael> Raphael: who should be there? should the group lobby there for implementations ?
09:58:40 <raphael> ... I think this is the MOST important event!
09:59:00 <raphael> Silvia: I will there, likely, organize a workshop (FOAM?)
09:59:07 <silvia> FOMS
09:59:08 <raphael> ... I can send announcement when I have news
10:00:44 <silvia> I will organise a 2-day FOMS workshop before OVC and 1 day hackday after OVC on the Sunday
10:00:53 <raphael> Raphael: deadline is June 7th ... we can propose a lecture / talk
10:01:03 <erik> +1
10:01:30 <raphael> Silvia: we can have a f2f there ... talk will be for a general audience
10:01:33 <silvia> zakim, mute me
10:01:33 <Zakim> Silvia should now be muted
10:01:46 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
10:01:46 <Zakim> Silvia should no longer be muted
10:02:06 <silvia> zakim, mute me
10:02:06 <Zakim> Silvia should now be muted
10:02:47 <raphael> close ACTION-147
10:02:48 <trackbot> ACTION-147 Add all MF WG members to corrib closed
10:03:06 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
10:03:07 <silvia> bye
10:03:08 <Zakim> -raphael
10:03:10 <Zakim> -Erik
10:03:13 <Zakim> -Silvia
10:03:13 <raphael> [meeting adjourned]
10:03:14 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()5:00AM has ended
10:03:16 <Zakim> Attendees were mhausenblas, raphael, Silvia, Erik
10:04:07 <mhausenblas> happy birthday, erik !!
10:19:41 <raphael> ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
10:19:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
10:20:14 <raphael> Present+ Erik
10:20:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
10:20:38 <raphael> zakim, bye
10:20:38 <Zakim> Zakim has left #mediafrag
10:20:42 <raphael> RRSAgent, bye
10:20:42 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-mediafrag-actions.rdf :
10:20:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Erik to report to the group whether such an approach from RDFa test suite can be used for automatically testing the media fragment specification [1]
10:20:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-mediafrag-irc#T09-31-55