IRC log of html-a11y on 2010-05-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

21:51:34 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
21:51:34 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-html-a11y-irc
21:51:36 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
21:51:36 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #html-a11y
21:51:38 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 2119
21:51:38 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
21:51:39 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
21:51:39 [trackbot]
Date: 19 May 2010
21:52:02 [MichaelC]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0137.html
21:52:44 [MichaelC]
chair: John_Foliot
21:52:58 [MichaelC]
meeting: Media sub-group - HTML A11Y TF
21:54:03 [MichaelC]
scribeOptions: -final
21:54:55 [MikeSmith]
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21:55:24 [JF]
JF has joined #html-a11y
21:57:51 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM has now started
21:57:58 [Zakim]
+John_Foliot
21:58:15 [JF]
== Agenda ==
21:58:16 [JF]
21:58:18 [JF]
1. Action Review
21:58:19 [JF]
www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/products/2 <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/products/2>
21:58:21 [JF]
21:58:23 [JF]
21:58:25 [JF]
2. Requirements Gathering (Review); determine critical must haves for short term / identify longer term requirements
21:58:27 [JF]
21:58:28 [JF]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Accessibility_Requirements_of_Media
21:58:30 [JF]
21:58:31 [JF]
21:58:33 [JF]
3. Mapping requirements against existing proposals
21:58:34 [JF]
21:58:36 [JF]
21:58:38 [JF]
4. Other business?
21:58:46 [Zakim]
+allanj
21:59:12 [Zakim]
+Michael_Cooper
21:59:13 [AllanJ]
AllanJ has joined #html-a11y
21:59:26 [janina]
janina has joined #html-a11y
21:59:41 [Zakim]
+Judy
21:59:52 [janina]
zakim, call janina
21:59:52 [Zakim]
ok, janina; the call is being made
21:59:54 [Zakim]
+Janina
22:00:09 [janina]
zakim, drop janina
22:00:09 [Zakim]
Janina is being disconnected
22:00:10 [Zakim]
-Janina
22:00:39 [Zakim]
+Janina_Sajka
22:00:40 [AllanJ]
scribe: allanj
22:00:59 [plh]
plh has joined #html-a11y
22:01:10 [janina]
zakim, who is on the phone?
22:01:10 [Zakim]
On the phone I see John_Foliot, allanj, Michael_Cooper, Judy, Janina_Sajka
22:01:18 [Zakim]
+??P5
22:01:23 [Zakim]
+Plh
22:01:48 [plh]
zakim, drop plh
22:01:48 [Zakim]
Plh is being disconnected
22:01:49 [Zakim]
-Plh
22:01:57 [Zakim]
+Plh
22:02:00 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P5 is Sean_Hayes
22:02:00 [Zakim]
+Sean_Hayes; got it
22:02:06 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, call Mike
22:02:06 [Zakim]
ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
22:02:07 [Zakim]
+Mike
22:02:16 [Sean]
Sean has joined #html-a11y
22:02:19 [Zakim]
+Eric_Carlson
22:04:29 [AllanJ]
zakim, angenda?
22:04:29 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, AllanJ.
22:04:37 [AllanJ]
zakim, agenda?
22:04:37 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
22:04:55 [AllanJ]
Topic: Action Items
22:04:56 [MichaelC]
close action-30
22:04:56 [trackbot]
ACTION-30 Look into structural navigation requirements closed
22:05:04 [AllanJ]
wiki update
22:05:49 [Zakim]
+Silvia
22:06:03 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
22:06:03 [Zakim]
Silvia should now be muted
22:06:33 [AllanJ]
All Judy's action items in progress, waiting on replies
22:06:48 [MichaelC]
action-32 due 26 May
22:06:48 [trackbot]
ACTION-32 Follow up w/ Gunnar Hellstrom on comprehensiveness of secondary signed channel requirements due date now 26 May
22:06:53 [MichaelC]
action-42 due 26 May
22:06:53 [trackbot]
ACTION-42 Organize a cross-check on requirements with JTC-1 user needs repository due date now 26 May
22:06:56 [mkobayas]
mkobayas has joined #html-a11y
22:06:57 [MichaelC]
action-43 due 26 May
22:06:57 [trackbot]
ACTION-43 Seek deaf-blind representation in requirements gathering process due date now 26 May
22:08:00 [AllanJ]
JF and JB also checking on other deaf users for input
22:08:32 [MikeSmith]
action-34?
22:08:32 [trackbot]
ACTION-34 -- Sean Hayes to write transcript requirements -- due 2010-05-19 -- OPEN
22:08:32 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/34
22:09:16 [Zakim]
+ +61.3.986.4.aaaa - is perhaps Kenny_Johar
22:09:23 [MichaelC]
close action-34
22:09:23 [trackbot]
ACTION-34 Write transcript requirements closed
22:09:29 [MichaelC]
zakim, Kenny is Kenny_Johar
22:09:29 [Zakim]
+Kenny_Johar; got it
22:12:36 [AllanJ]
JF: GFreed will be a bit late, review his action when he arrives
22:13:00 [AllanJ]
... otherwise defer to next week.
22:13:18 [AllanJ]
Topic: Requirements Review
22:14:21 [AllanJ]
JB: are we close to a survey, or still to rough
22:14:54 [AllanJ]
JF: thinks need a first walk through.
22:15:19 [AllanJ]
... email has been sent to full task force, but little response
22:15:58 [AllanJ]
JS: most who care are already engaged
22:17:04 [AllanJ]
JB: perhaps take 15 min on a full task force call to gauge reaction
22:17:13 [AllanJ]
JS: +1
22:18:09 [frankolivier]
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22:18:19 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
22:18:21 [AllanJ]
JF: discoverablity is critical. is there that much question about this. do we need to bring it to the whole task force
22:18:56 [MichaelC]
zakim, Microsoft is Frank_Olivier
22:18:56 [Zakim]
+Frank_Olivier; got it
22:19:19 [janina]
scribe: janina
22:19:39 [janina]
ja: the ability to find out what's there, and make selections.
22:19:47 [AllanJ]
Eric: need explanation for implementation
22:20:05 [janina]
judy: some of these may need more explanation in terms of impact on users
22:20:15 [janina]
eric: exactly!
22:20:28 [janina]
eric: that would be majorly helpful in the wider html-wg
22:20:44 [AllanJ]
scribe: allanj
22:22:03 [silvia]
+q
22:22:11 [Zakim]
-Eric_Carlson
22:22:23 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
22:22:23 [Zakim]
Silvia should no longer be muted
22:22:29 [AllanJ]
JF: need examples. there needs to be a button in the UI to notify the user that captions are available
22:22:30 [Zakim]
+Eric_Carlson
22:22:37 [gfreed]
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22:23:11 [AllanJ]
sylvia: from user point of view, the requirements are obvious for accessibility folks.
22:23:18 [Zakim]
+Geoff_Freed
22:23:52 [AllanJ]
... for engineers, need a different set of language, so they know what we want. need example for how they can be realized.
22:24:21 [AllanJ]
... discoverability: a button to expose a list of caption language files available to the user
22:24:29 [janina]
q?
22:24:33 [janina]
ack sy
22:24:38 [janina]
ack sy
22:24:41 [Zakim]
-Eric_Carlson
22:24:44 [janina]
ack si
22:24:58 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
22:24:58 [Zakim]
Silvia should now be muted
22:25:08 [Zakim]
+Eric_Carlson
22:25:31 [AllanJ]
JB: the narrative description is getting longer. the bullets don't seem to be as comprehensive.
22:26:06 [AllanJ]
... section heading seem confusing. references 'requirements' heading and narrative that follows
22:26:33 [AllanJ]
JB: there may be a continuum for what the user needs vs what engineers need
22:27:29 [AllanJ]
... keep requirements to user needs and basic technical functions. and leave the examples to later
22:28:10 [AllanJ]
js: confusion results from ad hoc creation from multiple authors
22:28:36 [AllanJ]
... take note that engineers need more explanation because they are not accessibility folks.
22:28:57 [AllanJ]
need to do it now
22:29:21 [Zakim]
-Plh
22:29:23 [AllanJ]
JF: good point from sylvia and eric, need more explanation
22:29:23 [Zakim]
-Kenny_Johar.a
22:29:41 [silvia]
+q
22:29:52 [AllanJ]
JF: how much detail to engineers want, images, text etc.
22:30:34 [AllanJ]
eric: depends on reqirement. discoverability - a sentance or two, similar to what sylvia said is sufficient.
22:30:50 [AllanJ]
... need something to help then understand
22:31:32 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
22:31:32 [Zakim]
Silvia should no longer be muted
22:31:42 [AllanJ]
jb: graphics would be tough and time consuming
22:32:07 [AllanJ]
sylvia: structure of wiki doc is inaccessible cognitively
22:32:26 [AllanJ]
... want numbered statements with examples
22:33:20 [AllanJ]
... it is really free form. needs more structure. going to walk trhough and extra requirements and view it from engineers perspective
22:33:47 [AllanJ]
... this would show the need for examples
22:34:00 [Judy]
Judy has joined #html-a11y
22:34:00 [AllanJ]
... needs to be more concrete.
22:35:30 [AllanJ]
jb: regard to sylvia. review of requirements documents - there are a few that have terse useful formats
22:35:59 [AllanJ]
... rather than starting another page, perhaps restructure the current document
22:36:34 [AllanJ]
... convert one section, or add a restructure section
22:36:54 [AllanJ]
... current doc seems upside down. narrative on top followed by list
22:37:25 [AllanJ]
sylvia: didn't want to overload the document. need numbers and a bit more meat.
22:37:49 [AllanJ]
... will write email to restructure current doc and send to list
22:38:02 [AllanJ]
jf: trying to do 2 things
22:38:16 [AllanJ]
... educational document, to understand the need in narrative
22:38:34 [AllanJ]
... engineering doc pick list of requirements
22:38:53 [AllanJ]
... tension/conflict between the purposes.
22:38:54 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
22:38:54 [Zakim]
Silvia should now be muted
22:39:14 [AllanJ]
jf: perhaps reverse the document list then narrative
22:39:45 [AllanJ]
jb: have had this discussion before. more concerned about the heading labels.
22:40:23 [AllanJ]
... other requirements documents have narrative and lists. not a problem. need both. need a structure to help it 'sing'
22:40:25 [Sean]
q+ to say the intention was originally to do exactly what Silivia is proposing
22:40:51 [silvia]
ack silvia
22:41:01 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
22:41:01 [Zakim]
Silvia should now be muted
22:41:20 [AllanJ]
jf: discussion of word smithing options.
22:41:27 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, mute me
22:41:27 [Zakim]
sorry, MikeSmith, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
22:41:33 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, mute Mike
22:41:33 [Zakim]
Mike should now be muted
22:41:39 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, Mike is me
22:41:39 [Zakim]
+MikeSmith; got it
22:42:14 [AllanJ]
jb: first section should be called 'use cases' and requirement should be above the list at the bottom
22:43:00 [AllanJ]
gf: added the narrative. opening could be edited down. leave prose at beginning with list at the end. need the context
22:43:50 [AllanJ]
jf: change headings, then add bullets.
22:44:23 [AllanJ]
sh: make prose one document and numbered requirements in a separate doc
22:44:31 [AllanJ]
jb: want one document
22:44:47 [AllanJ]
js: that is cross referenced.
22:45:16 [AllanJ]
sh: wants a nice list, not interspersed with prose
22:45:19 [silvia]
q+ just wants to say that I like the narrative at the top to set the context and general understanding
22:45:27 [Sean]
ack me
22:45:27 [Zakim]
Sean, you wanted to say the intention was originally to do exactly what Silivia is proposing
22:45:58 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
22:45:58 [Zakim]
Silvia should no longer be muted
22:46:15 [AllanJ]
jb: sylvia said she would restructure the requirements
22:46:30 [AllanJ]
js: are we done with gathering
22:47:08 [AllanJ]
jb: not yet, we are awaiting LD and deafblind and dyslexic feed back
22:47:31 [AllanJ]
sh: need to add in some cognitive stuff
22:47:38 [AllanJ]
... there is more to come.
22:47:53 [AllanJ]
... should move on the numbered list creation
22:48:33 [AllanJ]
sylvia: its a wiki, so can be a live document. need numbered requirements
22:49:01 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
22:49:01 [Zakim]
Silvia should now be muted
22:49:06 [AllanJ]
action: sylvia to structure requirements into a numbered system
22:49:06 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - sylvia
22:49:16 [janina]
q+
22:49:29 [AllanJ]
action: silvia to structure requirements into a numbered system
22:49:29 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-45 - Structure requirements into a numbered system [on Silvia Pfeiffer - due 2010-05-26].
22:49:49 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
22:49:49 [Zakim]
Silvia should no longer be muted
22:50:28 [AllanJ]
s/sylvia/silvia
22:50:58 [AllanJ]
silvia: will post sample to the list
22:51:07 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
22:51:07 [Zakim]
Silvia should now be muted
22:51:36 [AllanJ]
jf: should we go through all requirements, or wait for restructure
22:51:41 [AllanJ]
jb: wait
22:52:23 [AllanJ]
jf: need to map requirements to prose
22:52:54 [AllanJ]
js: pleased with document. BUT, it is living in the wrong place.
22:53:14 [AllanJ]
... it should live in the task force wiki, not the html wiki
22:53:25 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
22:53:25 [Zakim]
Silvia should no longer be muted
22:54:07 [Zakim]
-Eric_Carlson
22:54:10 [AllanJ]
jf: tend to agree. finding content is hard. having it all in 1 wiki makes logical sense. moving it would be easy
22:54:30 [AllanJ]
silvia: could do this as part of action
22:54:51 [AllanJ]
jf: great, put a link in old page to new home.
22:55:09 [silvia]
TF wiki: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Main_Page
22:55:18 [Zakim]
+Eric_Carlson
22:55:44 [AllanJ]
jb: task force has a wiki. concerned that the WBS survey may have difficulty linking to dynamic doc
22:55:47 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
22:55:47 [Zakim]
Silvia should now be muted
22:56:03 [AllanJ]
mc: will create a staic snap shot for each survey
22:56:13 [AllanJ]
s/staic/static
22:57:19 [AllanJ]
... will make it work (admin details)
22:57:35 [AllanJ]
Topic: other business
22:58:40 [AllanJ]
jf: question - google announcement of WEBM media wrapper. must be vp8 video, theora for audio. is it possible to add captions
22:59:04 [AllanJ]
eric: should be possible. would be a good question for html working list
22:59:11 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
22:59:11 [Zakim]
Silvia should no longer be muted
22:59:14 [AllanJ]
jf: will post question
23:00:08 [AllanJ]
gf: +1 to jf. project page explicitly states video and audio tracks, what about other tracks or multiple tracks
23:00:26 [Zakim]
-MikeSmith
23:00:45 [AllanJ]
silvia: SRT works in ?vetroska?, other tracks should be possible
23:00:58 [silvia]
matroska
23:01:09 [AllanJ]
eric: they are specifically using a subset.
23:01:12 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
23:01:12 [Zakim]
Silvia should now be muted
23:01:28 [AllanJ]
s/?vetroska?/matroska
23:01:57 [AllanJ]
js: gf close action item?
23:02:37 [AllanJ]
js: eric please give a list of what needs expansion - engineering examples
23:02:51 [AllanJ]
eric: will be done by next weeks call
23:03:15 [AllanJ]
jf: action-41 on gf
23:04:02 [MichaelC]
close action-41
23:04:02 [trackbot]
ACTION-41 Review use cases section of media requirements document closed
23:04:53 [janina]
zakim, who is on the phone?
23:04:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see John_Foliot, allanj, Michael_Cooper, Judy, Janina_Sajka, Sean_Hayes, Silvia (muted), Frank_Olivier, Geoff_Freed, Eric_Carlson
23:06:08 [Zakim]
-Eric_Carlson
23:06:10 [Zakim]
-Geoff_Freed
23:06:12 [Zakim]
-Janina_Sajka
23:06:13 [Zakim]
-Sean_Hayes
23:06:13 [Zakim]
-Judy
23:06:14 [Zakim]
-Michael_Cooper
23:06:14 [Zakim]
-John_Foliot
23:06:18 [Zakim]
-Silvia
23:06:21 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, make minutes
23:06:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-html-a11y-minutes.html AllanJ
23:06:26 [janina]
janina has left #html-a11y
23:06:36 [AllanJ]
rrsaent, set logs public
23:06:42 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, set logs public
23:07:41 [AllanJ]
present: John_Foliot, allanj, Michael_Cooper, Judy, Janina_Sajka, Sean_Hayes, Silvia , Frank_Olivier, Geoff_Freed, Eric_Carlson
23:07:54 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, make minutes
23:07:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-html-a11y-minutes.html AllanJ
23:08:21 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, please part
23:08:21 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-html-a11y-actions.rdf :
23:08:21 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: sylvia to structure requirements into a numbered system [1]
23:08:21 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-html-a11y-irc#T22-49-06
23:08:21 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: silvia to structure requirements into a numbered system [2]
23:08:21 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-html-a11y-irc#T22-49-29