IRC log of ua on 2010-05-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:42:09 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:42:09 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-irc
16:42:11 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:42:11 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
16:42:13 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:42:13 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
16:42:14 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:42:14 [trackbot]
Date: 13 May 2010
16:42:29 [sharper]
chair: Ford_Kelly
16:42:37 [sharper]
scribe: Harper_Simon
16:42:37 [sharper]
ScribeNick: sharper
16:43:45 [sharper]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010AprJun/0067.html
16:43:58 [sharper]
agenda+ Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?
16:44:17 [sharper]
Agenda+ Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100505/
16:44:17 [sharper]
Agenda+ inviting Chrome to meeting
16:44:17 [sharper]
Agenda+ Comments on last public working draft
16:44:36 [sharper]
zakim, save agenda
16:44:42 [Zakim]
ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-agenda.rdf
16:45:00 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 1
16:45:00 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?" taken up [from sharper]
16:45:19 [sharper]
Current editors draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20100430/
16:45:30 [sharper]
Current Techniques Document: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100430/
16:45:43 [sharper]
This week's Survey: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100505/
16:45:53 [sharper]
Scribe schedule and scribing help: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/scribing.html
16:46:04 [sharper]
Please monitor your open Action Items: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open
16:46:24 [sharper]
Open Issues: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/open
16:46:35 [sharper]
present+ Ford_Kelly
16:46:42 [sharper]
present+ Harper_Simon
16:47:10 [sharper]
regrets+ Hakkinen_Mark
16:47:21 [sharper]
regrets+ Allan_James
16:47:29 [sharper]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:47:38 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:47:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-minutes.html sharper
17:01:32 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:01:52 [kford]
kford has joined #ua
17:01:52 [Greg]
Greg has joined #ua
17:01:53 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
17:02:11 [Zakim]
+Greg
17:02:27 [sharper]
present+ Lowney_Greg
17:02:45 [sharper]
zakim, code?
17:02:45 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), sharper
17:03:01 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #ua
17:03:13 [sharper]
present+ Spellman_Jeanne
17:03:14 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
17:03:56 [kford]
zakim, agenda?
17:03:56 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
17:03:58 [Zakim]
1. Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)? [from sharper]
17:04:00 [Zakim]
2. Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100505/ [from sharper]
17:04:01 [Zakim]
3. inviting Chrome to meeting [from sharper]
17:04:04 [Zakim]
4. Comments on last public working draft [from sharper]
17:04:09 [Zakim]
+??P8
17:04:21 [sharper]
zakim, ??P8 is sharper
17:04:22 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
17:04:42 [KimPatch]
KimPatch has joined #ua
17:04:54 [sharper]
present+ Patch_Kim
17:04:58 [kford]
rrsagent, amke minutes
17:04:58 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'amke minutes', kford. Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:05:07 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:05:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-minutes.html kford
17:05:33 [Zakim]
+kimpatch
17:06:14 [kford]
zakim, agenda?
17:06:14 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
17:06:16 [Zakim]
1. Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)? [from sharper]
17:06:18 [Zakim]
2. Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100505/ [from sharper]
17:06:20 [Zakim]
3. inviting Chrome to meeting [from sharper]
17:06:22 [Zakim]
4. Comments on last public working draft [from sharper]
17:07:32 [kford]
zakim, take up item 1
17:07:32 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?" taken up [from sharper]
17:07:54 [sharper]
zakim, close item 1
17:07:54 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?, closed
17:07:56 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:07:58 [Zakim]
2. Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100505/ [from sharper]
17:07:58 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 3
17:07:58 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "inviting Chrome to meeting" taken up [from sharper]
17:08:03 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 2
17:08:03 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100505/" taken up [from sharper]
17:08:32 [sharper]
topic: Proposal for 5.3.5 Context Sensitive Help
17:11:49 [sharper]
GL: The proposal needs more discussion
17:13:13 [sharper]
Action: kford to update 5.3.5 Context Sensitive Help including sc and techniques addressing http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100427/results#xq
17:13:13 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-387 - Update 5.3.5 Context Sensitive Help including sc and techniques addressing http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100427/results#xq [on Kelly Ford - due 2010-05-20].
17:13:44 [sharper]
topic: Proposal for 5.3.6 Appropriate Language
17:14:06 [sharper]
3 accept/ 1 discussion
17:14:41 [sharper]
GL: last week people disagreed
17:14:48 [sharper]
JS: link was wrong last week
17:18:19 [sharper]
GL: discussion re last weeks version comments at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100427/results#xq2.
17:19:04 [sharper]
RESOLVED: KF: Come back to this when Patrick is here.
17:19:29 [sharper]
topic: Proposal for 3.10.1 Highlight Viewport - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100505/results#xq3
17:19:35 [sharper]
3 accept/ 1 discussion
17:20:00 [sharper]
GL: discussion re ISO version of guidelline
17:22:06 [sharper]
KF: respect ISO standards, but there are differences here. UA developers think of software as having 2 distinct components - content+frame therefore viewport is OK, all - feelings?
17:22:31 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:22:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-minutes.html sharper
17:27:06 [sharper]
KF: ISO harmonisation should be holistic not piecemeal which we can do later if GL continues to include these comments
17:27:22 [sharper]
JS: bringing it in live may be premature
17:27:44 [sharper]
ISSUE: Harmonise w3c to ISO
17:27:44 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-67 - Harmonise w3c to ISO ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/67/edit .
17:28:14 [jeanne]
Issue: UAAG harmonization with ISO\
17:28:15 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-68 - UAAG harmonization with ISO\ ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/68/edit .
17:36:54 [Greg]
The viewport with the current focus (including nested viewports and their containers) is highlighted, and the user is able to customize attributes of the highlight mechanism, including including, but not limited to, shape, size, stroke width, color, and blink rate (if any).
17:40:15 [Greg]
"The viewport with the current focus (including nested viewports and their containers) is highlighted, and the user is able to customize attributes of the highlight mechanism, including, but not limited to, shape, size, stroke width, color, and blink rate (if any)."
17:42:50 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to update 3.10.1 with the text above: "The viewport with the current focus (including nested viewports and their containers) is highlighted, and the user is able to customize attributes of the highlight mechanism, including, but not limited to, shape, size, stroke width, color, and blink rate (if any)."
17:42:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-388 - Update 3.10.1 with the text above: "The viewport with the current focus (including nested viewports and their containers) is highlighted, and the user is able to customize attributes of the highlight mechanism, including, but not limited to, shape, size, stroke width, color, and blink rate (if any)." [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-05-20].
17:44:09 [Greg]
Probably need to say "viewports" plural, as for example the active frame and the active window containing it should be appropriately highlighted.
17:45:44 [sharper]
KF: look for a sentence to be added re the benefits of customisation
17:46:13 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to update 3.10.1 implementing to approve the IER.
17:46:14 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-389 - Update 3.10.1 implementing to approve the IER. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-05-20].
17:46:24 [sharper]
topic: Proposal for 3.10.2 Move Viewport to Selection http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100505/results#xq4
17:46:33 [sharper]
3 accepts
17:47:17 [sharper]
RESOLVED: Accept
17:47:47 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to accept 3.10.2 proposal text.
17:47:48 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-390 - Accept 3.10.2 proposal text. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-05-20].
17:47:48 [sharper]
topic: Proposal for 3.10.3 Move Viewport to Focus http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100505/results#xq5
17:48:00 [sharper]
3 Accepts
17:48:13 [sharper]
RESOLVED: Accept
17:52:13 [Greg]
Minor: I suggested it would be better if we combined 3.10.2 and 3.10.3 into a single SC, "Move viewport to selection and focus", as they're identical except for one term. It would make the document shorter and simpler. But it's not important.
17:53:37 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to accept the proposal for 3.10.3 including the text from the survey of 13 May
17:53:37 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-391 - Accept the proposal for 3.10.3 including the text from the survey of 13 May [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-05-20].
17:53:40 [sharper]
topic: Proposal for 3.10.4 Resizable - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100505/results#xq6
17:53:54 [sharper]
3 Accepts
17:55:27 [Greg]
"3.10.2Move Viewport to Selection and Focus: When a viewport's selection or content focus changes, the viewport moves as necessary to ensure that the new selection or content focus location is at least partially in the viewport. (Level A)"
17:56:26 [Greg]
(Not sure if that should say "moves" vs. "scrolls" or some such, as we're not moving the location of the viewport but rather changing what it's showing.)
17:59:10 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to update 3.10.2 with proposal (supercedes) above: 3.10.2Move Viewport to Selection and Focus: When a viewport's selection or content focus changes, the viewport moves as necessary to ensure that the new selection or content focus location is at least partially in the viewport. (Level A)
17:59:10 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-392 - Update 3.10.2 with proposal (supercedes) above: 3.10.2Move Viewport to Selection and Focus: When a viewport's selection or content focus changes, the viewport moves as necessary to ensure that the new selection or content focus location is at least partially in the viewport. (Level A) [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-05-20].
17:59:58 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to update IER of 3.10.2 moving the examples from 3.10.3 to augment 3.10.2.
17:59:58 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-393 - Update IER of 3.10.2 moving the examples from 3.10.3 to augment 3.10.2. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-05-20].
18:00:11 [jeanne]
Action: jeanne to remove 3.10.3
18:00:11 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-394 - Remove 3.10.3 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-05-20].
18:07:26 [Greg]
I questioned whether most if not all UA would fail this as written because they don't allow users to resize text input fields, but Simon pointed out that Safari does.
18:07:57 [Greg]
However we'll need to find a second implementation.
18:08:04 [sharper]
RESOLVED: Accept
18:08:24 [sharper]
topic: Proposal for 3.10.5 Scrollbars - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100505/results#xq7
18:08:27 [sharper]
3 Accepts
18:08:57 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to update 3.10.4 to accept the proposed text for IER
18:08:57 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-395 - Update 3.10.4 to accept the proposed text for IER [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-05-20].
18:09:08 [sharper]
GL: Objection - some GUI's use other things than scrollbars that accomplish the same goals
18:10:27 [sharper]
GL: does not want to make this a specific implementation as opposed to the intent
18:10:49 [sharper]
KF: add a word or two - include scrollbars or other mechanisms
18:11:23 [sharper]
KF: the 99% case is scrollbars
18:11:58 [sharper]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/240
18:12:15 [sharper]
GL is this covered in http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/240
18:12:18 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/240/edit
18:14:34 [Greg]
Something more general: "3.10.5 Indicate content outside viewport: Graphical viewports display visual indications (e.g. scrollbars) if the rendered content extends beyond the viewport dimensions, overriding any values specified by the author. (Level A)" Not quite perfect...
18:15:59 [sharper]
RESOLVED: No action as of yet
18:16:19 [sharper]
topic: Proposal for 3.10.8 Do Not Take Focus - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100505/results#xq8
18:16:30 [sharper]
2 Accepts
18:16:56 [sharper]
KF: Not sure we have enough with only 2 votes
18:17:39 [sharper]
KF: Not enough responses to take action on 3.8 and beyond
18:17:52 [sharper]
RESOLVED: Not enough responses to take action on 3.10.8 and beyond
18:18:25 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:18:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-minutes.html sharper
18:21:29 [sharper]
RESOLVED: New survey to be made for 3.10.8 and after + 3.10.5 + 5.3.6
18:21:38 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to make a new survey starting at 3.10.8 (from the 13 May survey) and beyond. And 3.10.5 Scrollbars, and 5.3.6 Language.
18:21:38 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-396 - Make a new survey starting at 3.10.8 (from the 13 May survey) and beyond. And 3.10.5 Scrollbars, and 5.3.6 Language. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-05-20].
18:22:32 [kford]
zakim close item 2
18:22:38 [sharper]
zakim, close item 2
18:22:38 [Zakim]
agendum 2, Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100505/, closed
18:22:40 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:22:42 [Zakim]
3. inviting Chrome to meeting [from sharper]
18:22:55 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 3
18:22:55 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "inviting Chrome to meeting" taken up [from sharper]
18:23:17 [sharper]
SH: Jonas to attend next week
18:23:42 [sharper]
KF: need to sort out questions on the mailing list before meeting
18:24:14 [sharper]
RESOLVED: KF: to sent items to the list re - need to sort out questions on the mailing list before meeting
18:24:20 [kford]
zakim, close item 3
18:24:20 [Zakim]
agendum 3, inviting Chrome to meeting, closed
18:24:21 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
18:24:23 [Zakim]
4. Comments on last public working draft [from sharper]
18:24:34 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 4
18:24:34 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Comments on last public working draft" taken up [from sharper]
18:24:53 [sharper]
KF: when can we publish
18:25:01 [sharper]
JS: 2 weeks after we decide it is stable
18:25:32 [sharper]
KF: when will we be able to make a draft with no outstanding changes
18:25:38 [sharper]
JS: next meeting
18:25:48 [sharper]
KF: lets aim for this
18:26:00 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to update the document with all pending changes for the meeting of 20 May.
18:26:00 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-397 - Update the document with all pending changes for the meeting of 20 May. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-05-20].
18:26:19 [sharper]
KF: recruit a person each to solicit feedback (need to actively do this)
18:26:41 [sharper]
RESOLVED: Gear up for public draft
18:26:52 [sharper]
zakim, close item 4
18:26:52 [Zakim]
agendum 4, Comments on last public working draft, closed
18:26:53 [Zakim]
I see nothing remaining on the agenda
18:27:10 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:27:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-minutes.html sharper
18:27:36 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
18:27:37 [Zakim]
-sharper
18:27:39 [Zakim]
-kimpatch
18:27:43 [Zakim]
-Greg
18:27:52 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:27:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-minutes.html sharper
18:27:57 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
18:27:58 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
18:28:00 [Zakim]
Attendees were [Microsoft], Greg, Jeanne, sharper, kimpatch
18:28:15 [sharper]
zakim, please part
18:28:15 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
18:28:19 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:28:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-minutes.html sharper
18:28:28 [sharper]
rrsagent, please part
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
I see 11 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-actions.rdf :
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: kford to update 5.3.5 Context Sensitive Help including sc and techniques addressing http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100427/results#xq [1]
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-irc#T17-13-13
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to update 3.10.1 with the text above: "The viewport with the current focus (including nested viewports and their containers) is highlighted, and the user is able to customize attributes of the highlight mechanism, including, but not limited to, shape, size, stroke width, color, and blink rate (if any)." [2]
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-irc#T17-42-50
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to update 3.10.1 implementing to approve the IER. [3]
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-irc#T17-46-13
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to accept 3.10.2 proposal text. [4]
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-irc#T17-47-47
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to accept the proposal for 3.10.3 including the text from the survey of 13 May [5]
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-irc#T17-53-37
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to update 3.10.2 with proposal (supercedes) above: 3.10.2Move Viewport to Selection and Focus: When a viewport's selection or content focus changes, the viewport moves as necessary to ensure that the new selection or content focus location is at least partially in the viewport. (Level A) [6]
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-irc#T17-59-10
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to update IER of 3.10.2 moving the examples from 3.10.3 to augment 3.10.2. [7]
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-irc#T17-59-58
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to remove 3.10.3 [8]
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-irc#T18-00-11
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to update 3.10.4 to accept the proposed text for IER [9]
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-irc#T18-08-57
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to make a new survey starting at 3.10.8 (from the 13 May survey) and beyond. And 3.10.5 Scrollbars, and 5.3.6 Language. [10]
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-irc#T18-21-38
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to update the document with all pending changes for the meeting of 20 May. [11]
18:28:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-ua-irc#T18-26-00