13:06:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov-xg
13:06:40 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/25-prov-xg-irc
13:06:42 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:06:42 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov-xg
13:06:44 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 98765
13:06:44 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_PROVXG()9:00AM scheduled to start 6 minutes ago
13:06:45 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference
13:06:45 <trackbot> Date: 25 April 2010
13:07:05 <kerry> zakim, who's on the phone?
13:07:05 <Zakim> INC_PROVXG()9:00AM has not yet started, kerry
13:07:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, kerry, raphael, trackbot
13:07:18 <raphael> trackbot, start telecon
13:07:20 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:07:22 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 98765
13:07:22 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_PROVXG()9:00AM scheduled to start 7 minutes ago
13:07:23 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference
13:07:23 <trackbot> Date: 25 April 2010
13:07:33 <raphael> zakim, who is here?
13:07:33 <Zakim> INC_PROVXG()9:00AM has not yet started, raphael
13:07:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, kerry, raphael, trackbot
13:08:02 <raphael> zakim, this is INC_PROVXG
13:08:02 <Zakim> ok, raphael; that matches INC_PROVXG()9:00AM
13:08:28 <raphael> zakim, aabb is Raleigh_Room
13:08:28 <Zakim> +Raleigh_Room; got it
13:08:37 <Yolanda> Yolanda has joined #prov-xg
13:08:44 <kerry> zakim, +61.4.097.8.aaaa is me
13:08:45 <Zakim> sorry, kerry, I do not recognize a party named '+61.4.097.8.aaaa'
13:08:51 <pgroth> pgroth has joined #prov-xg
13:09:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/25-prov-xg-minutes.html raphael
13:09:44 <raphael> Topic: 1. Agenda review
13:09:53 <raphael> scribenick: raphael
13:10:00 <raphael> Chair: Yolanda
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13:10:33 <raphael> Yolanda: I will collect fees for the workshop, 90$ each or perhaps less, I have receipts
13:11:28 <raphael> Present: Yolanda, Raphael, Yogach, Sam, Andrea, Chris, July, Sapias, Paul, Olaf, Christine, Kerry (on phone)
13:12:01 <Yogesh> Yogesh has joined #prov-xg
13:12:34 <raphael> s/Yogach/Yogesh
13:12:57 <raphael> Chris: could we do a quick introduction each?
13:13:42 <raphael> Sam: IBBT in Ghent, PhD, aggregating information, LOD, learning objects, social graphs ... need for provenance in all my projects
13:14:23 <raphael> Yogesh: PostDoc, e-Science group in Microsoft, scientific workflow, how provenance can be used in clusters, clouds
13:15:15 <raphael> Raphael: EURECOM, France, multimedia semantics, study semantics for multimedia annotation, multimedia content delivery, multimedia personalisation
13:15:57 <raphael> Yolanda: intersted in 3 aspects: provenance in workflow, provenance for capturing human decision, provenance for content trust
13:16:27 <raphael> Christine: Australia, Internet Policy, would be happy to bring a legal aspect to this group (privacy)
13:17:03 <raphael> Olaf: Berlin (DB group), I'm trying to answer query over distributed information, interested in information quality ... need provenance
13:17:41 <raphael> Paul: VU Amsterdam, postdoc, worked on various provenance challenges, interested in provenance for mashup, particuarly e-science
13:18:32 <raphael> Sathia: semantic web, provenance for the scientific community
13:19:22 <raphael> July?: Oxford, sw + web science, provenance for linked data (work with Olaf) and implement the OPM model for data.gov.uk
13:19:56 <raphael> Chris: University of Berlin, started the LOD project, worked on Named Graph with Jeremy Carroll, work on information quality assessment
13:20:13 <pgroth> July  = Jun
13:21:04 <raphael> Andreas: Karlsruhe, I'm crawling SW since 5+ years, bringing together database, sensors data and SW technologies, need for provenance
13:21:08 <raphael> s/July/Jun
13:22:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/25-prov-xg-minutes.html raphael
13:22:48 <raphael> s/July?:/Jun:
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13:26:27 <raphael> Raphael: what is your policy for the documents you want to publish? There is the executive summary, self-contained, short ... but would you like to publish an exhaustive document containing all use cases and requirements?
13:26:55 <raphael> Paul: not really readable at this moment for people outside of the group ... so not really plan
13:27:53 <raphael> Yolanda: there is a single document for all use cases: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Requirements
13:28:02 <raphael> ... no, http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Use_Case_Report
13:28:40 <raphael> Andreas: it reads really well, now is the time to link to technical solutions, I guess would happen in next document
13:29:09 <raphael> Yolanda: I'm interested in multumedia requirements and also digital signatures
13:29:28 <raphael> Paul: I have talked to Dan Brickley from the SWXG about this
13:30:10 <ChrisBizer> ChrisBizer has joined #prov-xg
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13:30:19 <raphael> ... a lot of techies people, that might cover just an aspect of the provenance problem space and come up with their own solution
13:31:00 <raphael> ... can be the liaison, but hard to get their attention
13:31:14 <raphael> Chris: well, this is perhaps a indication for us to work more on the technical aspects too
13:31:21 <raphael> ... to appear in their radat
13:31:26 <raphael> s/radat/radar
13:32:26 <raphael> Chris: state of the art document is good, but how to go forward now ?
13:32:36 <raphael> ... feel there is consensus on the OPM model
13:33:08 <raphael> ... but we could go forward
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13:38:07 <raphael> Chris: I think there is some frustration from people who would like to test things now
13:41:48 <raphael> Yolanda: having a document that explains the mappings between various models such as Provenance Vocabulary, OPM, etc. is actually our plan
13:41:57 <raphael> ... we might not go further
13:47:52 <raphael> Chris: we have technical people in the group, deployment people, and there is urgent pressure from the LOD community, what I suggest is to suggest technical solutions, simple vocabulary that we agreed on, or mappings between vocabularies
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13:57:47 <raphael> Paul: we have now the requirements, but we haven't done yet the gap analysis, i.e. see which technology match which requirements
13:57:56 <raphael> ... perhaps this could be our next step
13:59:32 <raphael> Chris: I belive the soa document should contain some mappings between the various models
14:00:06 <raphael> Yolanda: we have the user requirements report ... our timeline schedule a soa report (end of June) and a roadmap (end of September)
14:02:37 <raphael> Paul: assuming OPM at the core, we have mappings between PML, Provenance Vocabulary, Provenir, PREMIS and OPM
14:05:09 <raphael> Yolanda: perhaps we could start collecting in a single place these mappings, even if we do not cover all the list of related technologies, but we have a start
14:05:55 <raphael> Yogesh: should we not first do the gap analysis, i.e. check which model fits which use cases before working on the mappings?
14:06:07 <raphael> Yolanda: I think we should do both
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14:09:26 <kerry> All, I am afraid that I need to leave now. Bye and thanks. 
14:09:40 <pgroth> thanks kerry for joining
14:09:47 <pgroth> hope it was useful
14:09:47 <Zakim> -Kerry
14:14:43 <raphael> Raphael: take inspiration of the mappings tables from the Media Ontology, http://www.w3.org/TR/mediaont-10/
14:19:03 <raphael> Raphael: another suggestion is to take a concrete example from the use case document and try to represent the provenance information with each models and ontologies
14:19:16 <raphael> ... in order to compare the resulting representations or rdf graphs
14:19:43 <raphael> Jun: yes, we intend to do that, and give feedback to authors of models of which use cases are realizable or not
14:19:54 <raphael> Chris: should not be a task for the Provenance challenge?
14:20:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/25-prov-xg-minutes.html raphael
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14:33:31 <raphael> scribenick jun
14:33:39 <raphael> scribenick: jun
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14:33:42 <jun> Yolanda: update on the discussion of the state of art document
14:33:59 <jun> Yoland: Luc proposed to use a matrix to do a technology gap analysis
14:34:25 <jun> Yolanda:not only the gap but also the strength and weakness of these technologies
14:35:02 <jun> Yolanda: a matrix is a systematic way to organize things
14:36:21 <jun> Yolanda: Luc also suggested that we should have some sense of goals/scope to anchor, e.g., what my needs are
14:36:49 <jun> Yolanda:Paolo suggested to use the RDF next step paper as a starting example for the exercise
14:37:46 <jun> Yolanda: we will use the three use case scenarios to see how they cover your goals
14:38:45 <jun> Yolanda: Luc suggested a block diagram for each use case, an architecture picture, of how provenance pieces could fit together for a use case
14:39:46 <jun> Yolanda: maybe there could some themes in the use case scenario, to reflect the goals, to help us to have a better idea about "goals"
14:40:09 <jun> Yolanda: we talked more about how the matrix could look like
14:40:49 <jun> Yolanda: maybe we can look at one particular scenario, to go through the exercise
14:41:38 <jun> Yolanda: take one scenario, articulate tech. requirements, the goals; to draw some architecture, provenance solution for the scenario; and then look at relevant technologies and systems
14:42:39 <raphael> Topic 2: Gap analysis study
14:43:10 <jun> Yolanda: James also suggested to keep the content in the matrix brief, and link to the "why"s
14:48:15 <jun> Chris: suggested to define the matrix for aligning vocabularies
14:52:30 <jun> Topic 3: definition of provenance
14:52:50 <jun> Yolanda: everybody puts their def. on the wiki page: what is provenance
14:53:11 <jun> Chris: maybe someone has done a survey of provenance definition?
14:53:31 <jun> Paul: Luc has a pretty good collection of the definition and will point to his chapter on the wiki
14:55:01 <jun> Topic 4: define the matrix for provenance vocabulary mapping
15:04:12 <raphael> s/Topic 2:/Topic: 2
15:04:17 <raphael> s/Topic 3:/Topic: 3
15:04:21 <raphael> s/Topic 4:/Topic: 4
15:04:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/25-prov-xg-minutes.html raphael
15:06:16 <raphael> s/scribenick jun/Topic: 2. Gap analysis study
15:06:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/25-prov-xg-minutes.html raphael
15:07:04 <raphael> s/Topic 2: Gap analysis study/ 
15:07:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/25-prov-xg-minutes.html raphael
15:07:38 <raphael> s/Topic 2: Gap analysis study//
15:07:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/25-prov-xg-minutes.html raphael
15:24:34 <raphael> scribenick: Yolanda
15:24:48 <jun> exit
15:26:17 <raphael> scribenick: Yogesh
15:27:11 <Yogesh> Sathya: Start with set of common terms? Four primary vocabolaries
15:27:49 <Yogesh> (Starting to discuss Provenance_Vocabulary_Mappings)
15:29:12 <Yogesh> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Provenance_Vocabulary_Mappings
15:29:48 <Yogesh> Paul: Listing provenance vocabularies at the wiki page...
15:30:10 <Yogesh> Jun: FOAF has provenance vocabulary. We'll add that later.
15:31:51 <Yogesh> Need to link the vocabularies with URL of technology in the wiki
15:32:50 <Yogesh> Satya: Start listing common set of terms rather than complete listing, given limited time
15:33:13 <Yogesh> Chris: Delegate description of vocabularies in the Wiki to experts on the model
15:36:20 <Yogesh> Paul: List of provenance vocabularies is a subset of the list of technolgies available at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Relevant_Technologies
15:38:53 <Yogesh> Chris: Do we have experts on the vocab list present here?
15:39:15 <Yogesh> Satya: Yes
15:40:24 <Yogesh> Raphael: Use mapping table similar to Media Ontology
15:41:09 <Yogesh> Paul: Show relation between list of terms and their existence in the vocabulary
15:41:37 <Yogesh> Chris: How do we get this list?
15:41:52 <Yogesh> Satya: Manually go through the vocab schemas and list them out.
15:42:49 <Yogesh> Chris: Do we distinguish between property and class for the terms?
15:44:52 <Yogesh> Olaf: Property for may be class for another. So lets not distinguish.
15:46:28 <Yogesh> Raphael: Add namespace prefix to each model
15:50:46 <Yogesh> Raphael: Wiki editing tips for tables...
15:54:46 <Yogesh> Paul: We may want a link to a document that describes the formal mapping, if it exists
16:02:14 <Yogesh> Christine: Can we get a definition for the term? E.g. link to it
16:03:02 <Yogesh> Chris: Can we have a temporary model term to map to?
16:05:11 <Yogesh> Yolanda: Use opm as the "standard" term and then map others to them?
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16:05:50 <Yogesh> Chris: Use opm term if available and if not, that identifies gap in opm
16:07:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/25-prov-xg-minutes.html raphael
16:08:36 <Yogesh> Christine: Do we need to explain why we choose OPM as the reference model?
16:08:45 <Yogesh> Yolanda: Not right now
16:09:12 <Yogesh> Jun: OPM's OWL serialization?
16:09:20 <Yogesh> Paul: No, the OPM model
16:20:25 <Yogesh> Yogesh: List all OPM terms in the wiki so it can be used a template
16:21:03 <Yogesh> Yolanda: Do dublin core terms map to agent?
16:23:36 <Yogesh> Paul: Other vocabs will also have a high level equivalent of agent. Not as specific as dublin core agent.
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16:26:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/25-prov-xg-minutes.html raphael
16:27:40 <Yolanda> A good table to look at from the multimedia ontology mappings is #21: http://www.w3.org/TR/mediaont-10/EBUCore.html
16:33:18 <Yogesh> Chris: Deadline for finishing the mapping?
16:33:44 <Yogesh> Satya: Is incharge of this. 
16:33:59 <Yogesh> Satya: 1 month to fill in first draft
16:34:26 <Yogesh> Satya: May 15th for first draft
16:34:51 <Yogesh> Only take those terms relevant to provenance
16:35:13 <Yogesh> Satya has final say on whether to add a new reference term
16:35:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/25-prov-xg-minutes.html raphael
16:35:21 <Yogesh> breaking for lunch
16:35:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/25-prov-xg-minutes.html raphael
16:54:59 <DeborahMcG> DeborahMcG has joined #prov-xg
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18:24:56 <pgroth> back from lunch
18:25:06 <Yogesh> Yolanda: Expand the mappings tomorrow. Moving on.
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18:26:55 <ssahoo2> Yolanda: discussing use case in the requirements document
18:27:41 <ssahoo2> Yolanda: use case 1: news data aggregation, case 2: disease outbreak, case 3: provenance in business contract
18:28:48 <ssahoo2> Yolanda: use case 1 selected by vote
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18:30:18 <ssahoo2> Paul: identify goal of selecting the use case
18:30:37 <raphael> Topic: User Requirements review
18:30:59 <ssahoo2> Yolanda
18:31:50 <ssahoo2> :identify goals 
18:35:33 <ssahoo2> Yogesh: what does "technology" mean - model or implementation?
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18:42:24 <ssahoo2> Paul: who are the audience?
18:43:12 <ssahoo2> Raphael: The AFP news agency sells a provenance toolkit to collect provenance of news entries from tweets etc.
18:44:17 <ssahoo2> Raphael: The AFP toolkit allows to identify the source author and time information associated with a news entity
18:44:40 <ssahoo2> Raphael: but it does not trace the exact path of the news entity
18:45:32 <ssahoo2> Paul: The news aggregator use case does not address this scenario
18:46:42 <ssahoo2> Paul: example scenario for use case 1: check the license of all providers for news aggregator
18:48:12 <ssahoo2> Yolanda: this use case is more about unstructured content integration
18:49:55 <ssahoo2> Satya: this scenario also includes RSS feed aggregators
18:50:45 <ssahoo2> Paul: query from user for this use case - how to track where the information is sources
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18:53:20 <ssahoo2> Chris: provenance of a blog - ability to track back to the original source of the information
18:54:40 <ssahoo2> Jun: user care about freshness of the data and the available technology to achieve this
18:55:21 <ssahoo2> Jun: entry point for the use cases can be topics of the use case
18:57:52 <ssahoo2> Paul: entry points should balance between being too specific about provenance or use case domain
19:00:54 <ssahoo2> Paul: allows conveying the provenance of the content to user
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19:03:05 <ssahoo2> Paul: Scalability of provenance systems for Web news application
19:08:53 <ssahoo2> Yolanda: entry points will overlap across use cases
19:10:26 <ssahoo2> Satya: the entry points may be driven by the context of the use case or domain
19:46:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/25-prov-xg-minutes.html raphael
19:50:14 <ssahoo2> Yolanda: identify the technical requirements for the entry points of use case 1
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20:22:51 <ssahoo2> Yogesh: start with existing user requirements and remove requirements that are not specific to the use case - to identify user requirements for the entry points of the use case
20:23:25 <ssahoo2> Paul: The technical requirements are not curated in the use cases
20:23:59 <ssahoo2> Yolanda: the user requirements are curated but technical requirements may need to be reviewed
20:24:42 <ssahoo2> Yogesh to review the technical requirements for the use cases
20:29:01 <ssahoo2> Yogesh: entry points can be separated from technical requirements
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20:39:19 <ssahoo2> Jun: understanding technical requirement is easier in context of specific user requirements
20:47:41 <ssahoo2> Yogesh to edit the requirements page to reflect user requirement
21:00:35 <ssahoo2> Technical requirements added for entry points of use case 1 
21:04:32 <ssahoo2> Paul/Satya: nesting of meta provenance - provenance of provenance grounds out according to requirements of the application
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21:36:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/25-prov-xg-minutes.html raphael
22:05:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Raleigh_Room, in INC_PROVXG()9:00AM
22:05:04 <Zakim> INC_PROVXG()9:00AM has ended
22:05:07 <Zakim> Attendees were +61.4.097.8.aaaa, +1.919.755.aabb, Raleigh_Room, Kerry
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