15:02:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swxg
15:02:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-irc
15:02:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:02:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7994
15:02:20 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_SWXG()11:00AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
15:02:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference
15:02:21 <trackbot> Date: 07 April 2010
15:02:22 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
15:02:22 <Zakim> I notice INC_SWXG()11:00AM has restarted
15:02:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see OpenLink_Software, ??P7
15:02:30 <tpa> Zakim, ??P7 is me
15:02:30 <Zakim> +tpa; got it
15:02:34 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:02:34 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:02:36 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:02:36 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:02:40 <tpa> Zakim, mute me
15:02:40 <Zakim> tpa should now be muted
15:02:44 <Zakim> + +1.781.416.aaaa
15:03:01 <Zakim> + +0798919aabb
15:03:34 <petef> petef has joined #swxg
15:04:01 <Zakim> +??P21
15:04:09 <hhalpin> Zakim, ??P21 is hhalpin
15:04:09 <Zakim> +hhalpin; got it
15:04:22 <Zakim> + +1.218.296.aacc
15:04:36 <rreck> zakim, i am  +1.218.296.aacc
15:04:37 <Zakim> +rreck; got it
15:04:37 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
15:04:37 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose rreck
15:04:43 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
15:04:43 <Zakim> + +41.79.436.aadd
15:04:44 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose +0798919aabb
15:04:45 <Zakim> + +0797094aaee
15:04:47 <rreck> zakim, mute me
15:04:47 <Zakim> rreck should now be muted
15:04:50 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
15:04:50 <mischat> mischat has joined #swxg
15:04:52 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose tpa (muted)
15:05:03 <hhalpin> Anyone want to scribe?
15:05:12 <Zakim> + +39.058.368.aaff
15:05:13 <Zakim> +??P30
15:05:22 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
15:05:22 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose +0797094aaee
15:05:22 <mischat> Zakim, who is on the line
15:05:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the line', mischat
15:05:24 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
15:05:24 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose rreck (muted)
15:05:30 <hhalpin> Ronald?
15:05:32 <rreck> i can try
15:05:33 <melvster> zakim, ??P30 us ne
15:05:33 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P30 us ne', melvster
15:05:36 <rreck> im having phone issues
15:05:37 <petef> zakim, aaee is me.
15:05:37 <Zakim> +petef; got it
15:05:44 <Zakim> - +0798919aabb
15:05:58 <melvster> zakim, ??P30 is me
15:06:02 <Zakim> +melvster; got it
15:06:05 <rreck> please state who is talking when you talk
15:06:07 <danja> zakim, +P30 is me
15:06:07 <Zakim> sorry, danja, I do not recognize a party named '+P30'
15:06:17 <danja> zakim, +??P30 is me
15:06:18 <Zakim> sorry, danja, I do not recognize a party named '+??P30'
15:06:21 <hhalpin> topic: 1. Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2010-04-07
15:06:23 <Zakim> + +0798919aagg
15:06:26 <danja> zakim, ??P30 is me
15:06:26 <hhalpin> chair: hhalpin
15:06:28 <rreck> can i do like half the scribing?
15:06:28 <Zakim> I already had ??P30 as melvster, danja
15:06:30 <hhalpin> scribe: rreck
15:06:36 <melvster> danja: could you be +39.058.368.aaff ?
15:06:37 <danja> oops
15:06:39 <mischat> Zakim: 0798919aagg is me
15:06:43 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on phone?
15:06:43 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, hhalpin.
15:06:53 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the call?
15:06:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see MacTed (muted), tpa (muted), +1.781.416.aaaa, hhalpin, rreck (muted), petef, +41.79.436.aadd, +39.058.368.aaff, melvster, +0798919aagg
15:06:53 <mischat> Zakim, 0798919aagg is me
15:06:56 <Zakim> sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '0798919aagg'
15:07:04 <mischat> Zakim, +0798919aagg is me
15:07:04 <Zakim> +mischat; got it
15:07:09 <danja> zakim, +39.058.368.aaff is me
15:07:09 <Zakim> +danja; got it
15:07:10 <mischat> Zakim, mute me
15:07:11 <Zakim> mischat should now be muted
15:07:18 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on chat?
15:07:18 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, hhalpin.
15:07:23 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on irc?
15:07:23 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, hhalpin.
15:07:29 <rreck> it helps if people say who they are when they speak
15:07:54 <rreck> but i wont be able to tell, which is my second biggest problem
15:08:04 <MacTed> ping
15:08:13 <melvster> ping
15:08:17 <mischat> hello
15:08:40 <rreck> yes
15:08:47 <tpa> yes
15:09:28 <hhalpin> PROPOSED: to approve [10]SWXG WG Weekly -- 31 March 2010 as a true record
15:10:53 <hhalpin> hmm...can't find minutes URI.
15:11:00 <hhalpin> Will put fixing that on next agenda.
15:11:25 <hhalpin> PROPOSED: to meet again Wed. April 14th
15:11:26 <rreck> +1 meet again
15:11:33 <hhalpin> Policy languages or tagging
15:11:36 <mischat> +1
15:11:56 <rreck> halpin: update on w3c meeting discussing social web
15:12:05 <mischat> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Apr/0001.html
15:12:16 <mischat> harry's email sent round today ^^
15:12:21 <rreck> halpin: meetings with google and...
15:12:36 <rreck> halpin: need to clean up action items
15:12:40 <hhalpin> topic: Action Reminders
15:12:45 <rreck> halpin: or purge them
15:12:55 <rreck> halpin: adam not here
15:13:07 <mischat> the minutes for last meeting, doesn't seem to resolve : http://www.w3.org/2010/10/03-swxg-minutes.html
15:13:14 <rreck> halpin: cant purge it
15:13:29 <hhalpin> mischa?
15:13:33 <mischat> Zakim, unmute me 
15:13:33 <Zakim> mischat should no longer be muted
15:13:42 <hhalpin> not sure if they have evolved...
15:14:16 <rreck> missed that
15:14:35 <hhalpin> micha: to make a git repository with terms and conditions to see if terms and conditions and changed.
15:14:58 <hhalpin> So we'll keep this open?
15:15:01 <hhalpin> Yes.
15:15:01 <mischat> yes
15:15:14 <mischat> Zakim, mute me
15:15:14 <Zakim> mischat should now be muted
15:15:23 <hhalpin> topic: 3. Final Report Update
15:15:32 <hhalpin> We did get our charter extension...
15:15:38 <rreck> halpin: had charter extended
15:16:01 <rreck> halpin: but we need to create draft final report
15:16:14 <rreck> halpin: due at the end of this month
15:16:20 <danja> zakim, mute me
15:16:20 <Zakim> danja should now be muted
15:16:40 <rreck> halpin: lets talk about this for 10-15 minutes then future speakers
15:16:52 <rreck> lets do business first
15:17:05 <petef> +1 for final report first
15:17:07 <rreck> me too
15:17:18 <rreck> christine: lets do final report, im not on irc
15:17:40 <rreck> halpin: christines document is nice
15:17:54 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/SocialWebFrameworks
15:18:13 <hhalpin> thanks christine!
15:18:16 <rreck> christine: the idea was to contribute this to the final report and is in the public domain
15:18:22 <hhalpin> new version?
15:18:31 <hhalpin> new version on wiki?
15:18:50 <rreck> christine: there is a slightly improved version, any part anywhere is appropriate
15:19:29 <hhalpin> ACTION: hhalpin to email Renato and Christine to take into final document
15:19:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-133 - Email Renato and Christine to take into final document [on Harry Halpin - due 2010-04-14].
15:19:39 <rreck> christine: there is a change in vocabulary base on feedback
15:19:52 <rreck> halpin: we need landscape overview
15:20:16 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/OneLiners
15:20:52 <mischat> perhaps http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/DiscussionTopics
15:20:59 <hhalpin> Hmm...looking for other wikis.
15:21:00 <rreck> christine: can we contrast different landscapes in the final report
15:21:18 <Zakim> - +1.781.416.aaaa
15:21:39 <rreck> halpin: final report can link to other documents but it should be self contained
15:21:41 <hhalpin> visual picture of how the various standards fit together?
15:21:47 <hhalpin> literal lanscape picture
15:22:00 <hhalpin> there references then to the other pages/code/
15:22:02 <mischat> zakim, who is making noise ?
15:22:12 <Zakim> mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: hhalpin (39%)
15:22:16 <rreck> i dont hear anything except myself
15:22:28 <rreck> my irc is beeping, do you hear that?
15:22:28 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/SN_Platform_Functionality
15:22:31 <mischat> nothing there 
15:22:33 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/SN_Platform_Functionality
15:22:46 <rreck> zakim, mute me
15:22:46 <Zakim> rreck was already muted, rreck
15:23:09 <rreck> christine: what parts are needed?
15:23:12 <hhalpin> landscape and picture is needed?
15:23:20 <rreck> halpin: landscape document
15:23:24 <hhalpin> does anyone want to take that on?
15:23:34 <rreck> halpin: i can help but need a point person
15:23:37 <mischat> perhaps I could help with picture
15:23:38 <petef> I could help with the picture
15:23:46 <rreck> thanks guys
15:23:46 <mischat> yay petef 
15:23:47 <mischat> !
15:23:54 <petef> yay mischat
15:23:56 <hhalpin> ACTION: petef to help make picture of landscape
15:23:56 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - petef
15:24:02 <hhalpin> ACTION: pferne to help make picture of landscape
15:24:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-134 - Help make picture of landscape [on Peter Ferne - due 2010-04-14].
15:24:12 <mischat> q+
15:24:17 <hhalpin> acki mischat
15:24:20 <hhalpin> ack mischat
15:24:21 <mischat> zakim, unmute me
15:24:23 <Zakim> mischat was not muted, mischat
15:24:39 <rreck> christine: will we have usecases in final report?
15:24:58 <hhalpin> the latter, the technology space.
15:25:00 <rreck> mischat: technologies in landscape picture?
15:25:01 <petef> I assume that too
15:25:07 <petef> Please do hhalpin
15:25:14 <petef> forward those diagrams
15:25:14 <mischat> zakim, mute me
15:25:14 <Zakim> mischat should now be muted
15:25:17 <hhalpin> use-case document
15:25:23 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories
15:25:35 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories
15:25:44 <hhalpin> tpa? is that latest version?
15:25:44 <tpa> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/RequirementsAndUseCases-WorkArea
15:25:52 <mischat> :)
15:26:38 <mischat> wow
15:26:57 <rreck> im missing some stuff, sorry
15:27:06 <rreck> trim narrative
15:27:20 <rreck> some talk about refining document
15:27:29 <rreck> christine: put some stuff in appendix?
15:27:49 <hhalpin> its pretty solid. 
15:28:25 <rreck> halpin: how many people know W3C web architecture document?
15:28:27 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/
15:28:40 <hhalpin> well, anything with a URI is a resource
15:28:48 <hhalpin> so that would include text, profiles, video, audio
15:28:59 <hhalpin> anything that has a URI as is retrievved by HTTP GET
15:29:08 <hhalpin> video/audio/etc. etc. are actually media types
15:29:27 <hhalpin> Uploading, publishing user-generated text (blog post) with or without tags 
15:29:38 <hhalpin>   Uploading, publishing user-generated images (photos) with or without tags
15:30:11 <hhalpin> Uploading, publishing  any user-generated resource with or without tags
15:31:22 <rreck> christine: set size and simplify
15:31:29 <hhalpin> boil it down to a dozen...
15:31:30 <mischat> hhalpin: are the invited talks going to be included in the final report ?
15:31:48 <hhalpin> yes, the invited talks need to be summarized somewhat.
15:33:14 <hhalpin> maybe some headings?
15:33:27 <hhalpin> in section 3
15:33:39 <hhalpin> I would say only a few sentences.
15:33:39 <rreck> two ways to do this... summary of each lvl 2 section
15:34:02 <rreck> extracting important stories as a sample
15:34:07 <mischat> section 3 headings : http://mmt.me.uk/p/hVhvzh
15:34:08 <rreck> i dont know who is talking
15:34:15 <mischat> rreck: that is tpa
15:34:18 <rreck> ty
15:34:36 <rreck> halpin: three main stories
15:34:50 <rreck> halpin: final report will have entire usecase document
15:35:05 <rreck> halpin: 2 or 3 sentences as summaries, bullet points
15:35:19 <hhalpin> 10 bullet point with 2-3 sentences
15:35:33 <hhalpin> and choose 2-3 stories
15:35:46 <rreck> tpa: 1-2 lines on each story
15:35:51 <mischat> which stories ? these ones ? http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories
15:35:58 <rreck> halpin: agreed that is fine
15:36:06 <rreck> halpin: its due at the end of the month
15:36:38 <rreck> halpin: dont add more but look at the ones we have done
15:36:43 <hhalpin> ACTION: tpa to write 2-3 sentences for each story
15:36:43 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - tpa
15:36:49 <hhalpin> ACTION: tanglade to write 2-3 sentences for each story
15:36:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-135 - Write 2-3 sentences for each story [on Tim Anglade - due 2010-04-14].
15:37:24 <rreck> tpa: a lot of work went into some of them but may not be useful as it is
15:37:43 <rreck> christine: i will be back up editor, i have to leave the call now
15:37:45 <Zakim> - +41.79.436.aadd
15:38:28 <rreck> halpin: w3c is looking for ...have technologies the exist interested in standarization?
15:38:35 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests
15:38:44 <hhalpin> ACTION: hhalpin to re-email some of the invited talk people on possible future standardizati
15:38:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-136 - Re-email some of the invited talk people on possible future standardizati [on Harry Halpin - due 2010-04-14].
15:38:50 <rreck> tpa: what is the format of final report?
15:39:01 <rreck> halpin: its loose
15:39:06 <rreck> tpa: on the wiki?
15:39:17 <rreck> halpin: on wiki or...
15:39:22 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalReport
15:39:33 <hhalpin> here's a draft page to start cut and pasting things.
15:39:47 <hhalpin> and I have automated scripts...
15:40:01 <hhalpin> let's just cut and paste stuff into this page.
15:40:18 <rreck> tpa: is there an outline?
15:40:30 <rreck> halpin: problem, definition
15:40:41 <rreck> halpin: usecase, technology landscape
15:40:45 <hhalpin> I think it should go 1) Problem 2) Definitions 3) Use-Cases 4) Technology Landscape 5) Future Standardization
15:40:49 <FabGandon> FabGandon has left #swxg
15:40:53 <hhalpin> I'm happy to focus on 4) and 5)
15:41:04 <hhalpin> Tim takes on 3)
15:41:17 <hhalpin> 1) and 2) fairly straightforward manner
15:41:42 <rreck> halpin: do people feel comfortable?
15:41:45 <hhalpin> which we have about 3 weeks to finish
15:41:46 <rreck> silence
15:41:49 <hhalpin> :)
15:41:57 <mischat> +1 to comfortable
15:42:42 <danja> zakim, unmute me
15:42:42 <Zakim> danja should no longer be muted
15:42:55 <rreck> halpin: w3c wants to be more.... 
15:42:57 <hhalpin> topic: future of w3c and rdf
15:43:06 <hhalpin> make some of the standard more lightweight and agile
15:43:10 <rreck> more lightweight
15:43:11 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/QA/2010/02/date_and_place_of_the_rdf_next.html
15:43:22 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/2009/12/rdf-ws/
15:43:31 <hhalpin> This tension in the XG and the general landscape
15:43:39 <hhalpin> between RDF, XMPP, and Atom as the baseline data format.
15:43:43 <hhalpin> for social web work.
15:43:55 <mischat> mmm is xmpp is a data format ?
15:43:58 <hhalpin> Chris Messina activity streams - why he chose Atom and Pubsubhub?
15:44:12 <hhalpin> XEP and Pubsubhubhub for realtime updating
15:44:20 <danja> http://activitystrea.ms/
15:44:26 <Zakim> -tpa
15:44:27 <Zakim> -danja
15:44:27 <Zakim> -petef
15:44:37 <hhalpin> lost a lot of people?
15:44:38 <danja> grr
15:44:39 <hhalpin> what happened there.
15:44:43 <tpa> woah, holy phone split batman
15:44:51 <hhalpin> we'll hold on...
15:45:00 <hhalpin> I'll just keep up in IRC
15:45:10 <Zakim> +??P0
15:45:26 <hhalpin> anyways, there was definite interest in improving the RDF and Atom story, perhaps using Atom as some sort of RDF syntax
15:45:35 <Zakim> +petef
15:45:54 <Zakim> +danja
15:45:55 <mischat> that could go into section 5 perhaps
15:46:23 <tpa> http://machinesplusminds.blogspot.com/2010/04/ietf-and-membership-via-corporation.html
15:46:28 <hhalpin> thanks!
15:47:16 <rreck> halpin: membership discuss about alternatives
15:47:31 <hhalpin> http://www.odata.org/
15:47:36 <mischat> ")
15:47:36 <hhalpin> Odata work by Microsoft?
15:47:43 <hhalpin> Open Data format 
15:47:50 <hhalpin> which is seemingly a sort of alternative to RDF
15:47:54 <mischat> lovely, very similar, they even have bnodie type things 
15:48:59 <hhalpin> Make a connection between Atom and RDF world
15:49:07 <danja> http://bblfish.net/work/atom-owl/2006-06-06/AtomOwl.html
15:49:49 <danja> http://djpowell.net/blog/entries/Atom-RDF.html
15:50:20 <hhalpin> http://activitystrea.ms/spec/1.0/atom-activity-01.html
15:50:25 <hhalpin> Activity-Streams spec
15:50:43 <rreck> i can hear, but im lost
15:51:00 <hhalpin> pubsubhub spec
15:51:02 <hhalpin> http://pubsubhubbub.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/pubsubhubbub-core-0.3.html
15:51:08 <rreck> danja: said a ton of stuff
15:51:11 <hhalpin> rreck - just try your best
15:51:15 <danja> sorry!
15:51:28 <hhalpin> let's model Atom *inside* RDF
15:51:29 <mischat> there has been lots of work in the atom world, and the pubhubsub world
15:51:34 <hhalpin> to a model of Atom
15:51:45 <hhalpin> the other is to look at Atom itself as a way of serializing RDF.
15:51:53 <hhalpin> and providing updates to changes in triple-stores
15:51:58 <hhalpin> RSS 1.0 to do that 
15:52:13 <rreck> halpin: user has action
15:52:16 <hhalpin> user [action] possibly on a [subject]
15:52:24 <hhalpin> and that at least in [actions] are given URIs.
15:52:30 <hhalpin> but you can imagine being given URIs.
15:52:37 <rreck> sound reasonable to me
15:52:38 <hhalpin> RDF/XML
15:52:40 <mischat> danbri has been working on sparql over xmpp to update triplestore 
15:52:46 <danja> (in activity streams)
15:52:55 <danja> oops - further up
15:53:15 <hhalpin> to go with IETF over W3C?
15:53:42 <hhalpin> link mischat?
15:53:43 <rreck> danja: W#C might be accused of being heavy handed and forcing the use of RDF
15:54:07 <mischat> http://danbri.org/words/2008/02/11/278
15:54:21 <rreck> danja: work out mapping of RDF and ATOM
15:54:23 <mischat> i recall a atom+rdfa work 
15:54:34 <rreck> danja: seems like low hanging fruit
15:54:44 <hhalpin> atom+rdfa?
15:54:50 <mischat> http://www.slideshare.net/danbri/wai-talk-xmpp
15:54:51 <hhalpin> I've seen DataRSS work...
15:54:56 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:54:56 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:55:12 <mischat> danbri talking sparql + xmpp --- i think there is working code somewhere
15:55:48 <hhalpin> O'Reilly codezoo...RDF as payload in Atom.
15:55:50 <danbri> yeah, i think steve has something
15:55:58 <mischat> yeah steve does too 
15:56:34 <mischat> danbri: do you have links to rdfa+atom ?
15:56:45 <hhalpin> big difference between having RDFa and RDF/XML in payload.
15:57:11 <Zakim> -melvster
15:57:16 <hhalpin> I guess RDF into Atom as possible.
15:57:22 <hhalpin> RDF model in Atom as possible.
15:57:26 <hhalpin> named-valued pairs
15:57:34 <mischat> harry asks, does anyone have any ideas around making RDF easily transports via atom ?
15:57:59 <hhalpin> quite unspecified - some fairly arbitrary XML.
15:58:26 <danja> all in http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4287.txt
15:58:29 <melvster1> melvster1 has joined #swxg
15:58:29 <danbri> well google yahoosearchmonkey's datarss maybe?
15:58:38 <Zakim> +??P1
15:58:45 <rreck> halpin: nice if social web xg explained why rdf is not always used
15:59:06 <melvster1> zakim, ??P1 is me
15:59:20 <Zakim> +melvster1; got it
15:59:28 <mischat> what is wrong with rss1 
15:59:36 <hhalpin> The Social Web XG put a paper forwards?
15:59:41 <rreck> im sorry i have to leave the phone
15:59:54 <hhalpin> well, you can put turtle in atom payload
15:59:56 <mischat> i will take over rreck 
16:00:00 <rreck> thanks man
16:00:12 <rreck> im doing poorly anyway
16:00:29 <Zakim> -rreck
16:00:36 <mischat> links elements in atom ... they might be able to used to put triples into atom
16:00:41 <hhalpin> re-presenting Atom data as RDF or RDF model as Atom.
16:01:36 <hhalpin> not sure about perfectly reversible translation
16:02:15 <petef> I have to go. Bye all.
16:02:21 <danja> bye
16:02:26 <Zakim> -petef
16:03:30 <mischat> mischat has joined #swxg
16:04:15 <hhalpin> Probably not RDF/XML community :)
16:04:21 <hhalpin> community that uses triples
16:04:51 <hhalpin> odata is a restatement of the rdf model
16:04:52 <mischat> but XML has a lot of mature transport mechanisms 
16:05:05 <mischat> and hence why rdfxml is useful 
16:05:08 <mischat> albeit ugly 
16:06:02 <hhalpin> modelling atom in rdf lets atom be put in triple store.
16:06:10 <mischat> does SPARQL 1.1 solve the same problems 
16:06:13 <mischat> doesn't 
16:06:25 <mischat> uploading data to triplestores 
16:06:40 <melvster> this is a great discussion
16:06:49 <Zakim> -tpa
16:07:20 <mischat> rdf lite ? link danny?
16:07:59 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/diagrams/n3/venn
16:08:23 <melvster> there's also: http://webofdata.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/data-and-the-web-choices/
16:08:27 <mischat> zakim, unmute me 
16:08:27 <Zakim> mischat should no longer be muted
16:08:34 <danbri> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:08:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see MacTed, hhalpin, mischat, danja, melvster1
16:09:03 <danbri> oh crap, i timezone'd out
16:09:28 <hhalpin> mischat: rdfa is quite a bit buggy
16:09:34 <mischat> ntriples 
16:11:03 <mischat> http://developer.yahoo.com/searchmonkey/smguide/faq.html
16:11:11 <mischat> search monkey ^^ dataRSS 
16:11:15 <mischat> which is atom+rdfa
16:11:25 <danja> mischat : rdf lite = my shorthand for rdf next step
16:11:31 <mischat> ok
16:11:38 <mischat> http://developer.yahoo.com/searchmonkey/smguide/understand_datarss.html
16:14:17 <hhalpin> if turtle as a payload could be solved as RDF?
16:14:31 <mischat> then why are you talking about the serialisation 
16:15:28 <melvster> facebook for example, said they looked at using rdf (i cant remember for which feature), but found other choices less complicated
16:16:18 <mischat> they bought friendfeed which where rdfers 
16:16:28 <mischat> and then ff seemed to simply vanish post buyout 
16:16:59 <mischat> agree hhalpin 
16:17:01 <mischat> agrred 
16:17:28 <mischat> which is what are DataRSS @ yahoo are trying to do
16:17:45 <hhalpin> existing streams RDFize directly
16:17:53 <hhalpin> 1) transfer turtle as a payload
16:18:06 <mischat> no
16:18:10 <mischat> not closely 
16:18:23 <mischat> yeah 
16:18:27 <hhalpin> 2) use the link element to hook into RDF
16:18:41 <hhalpin> 3) directly RDF-ize Atom at either input or output stage
16:18:51 <hhalpin> 4) Put RDFa into Atom?
16:18:53 <hhalpin> maybe that
16:18:54 <MacTed> facebook found RDF/XML too complicated, as I recall ...  more conflation of model with serialization making the model unattractive
16:19:01 <mischat> but talking about "turtle", surely we should be able to send any RDF, serialisation independent 
16:19:28 <hhalpin> I imagine people would want to scrape minimal amount of RDF out of Atom
16:19:32 <hhalpin> not necessarily all of Atom.
16:19:37 <mischat> examples would go along way in grddl world 
16:20:03 <hhalpin> yes we don't have a standard grddl transform for Atom - I tried a while back to get consensus between the 3 or 4 we had out there, bu tno luck
16:23:18 <rreck> xslt is hard because its event driven
16:24:24 <mischat> zakim, unmute me
16:24:24 <Zakim> mischat was not muted, mischat
16:24:59 <melvster> delete and insert
16:26:27 <hhalpin> ok, I gotta run, will try to draft something up
16:26:40 <melvster> this is the diagram timbl talked about: http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/diagrams/social/acl-arch.png
16:26:43 <mischat> so we need more standards 
16:26:54 <mischat> :)
16:27:26 <hhalpin> trackbot, end meeting
16:27:26 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:27:26 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been tpa, MacTed, +1.781.416.aaaa, +0798919aabb, hhalpin, +1.218.296.aacc, rreck, +41.79.436.aadd, +0797094aaee, petef, melvster, mischat,
16:27:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:27:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html trackbot
16:27:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:27:28 <RRSAgent> I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-actions.rdf :
16:27:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: hhalpin to email Renato and Christine to take into final document [1]
16:27:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-irc#T15-19-29
16:27:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: petef to help make picture of landscape [2]
16:27:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-irc#T15-23-56
16:27:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: pferne to help make picture of landscape [3]
16:27:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-irc#T15-24-02
16:27:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: tpa to write 2-3 sentences for each story [4]
16:27:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-irc#T15-36-43
16:27:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: tanglade to write 2-3 sentences for each story [5]
16:27:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-irc#T15-36-49
16:27:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: hhalpin to re-email some of the invited talk people on possible future standardizati [6]
16:27:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-irc#T15-38-44
16:27:29 <Zakim> ... danja, melvster1