IRC log of wam on 2010-03-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to
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IA_WebApps(Widgets)9:00AM has now started
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joining in a split second!
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RRSAgent, make log public
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ScribeNick: ArtB
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Scribe: Art
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Chair: Art
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Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference
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Date: 4 March 2010
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Regrets: Marcin
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14:03:01 [darobin]
Zakim, [IPCaller] is me
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+darobin; got it
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Present: Art, Bryan, Marcos, Robin
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Present+ Arve
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Topic: Review and tweak agenda
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AB: the draft agenda was posted on March 3 ( ). Will add View Modes Media Features to the agenda since Robin posted an update today ( ). Any other change requests?
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Topic: Announcements?
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AB: I have one: No call next week on March 11; next call will be March 18. Any other short announcements?
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Steven has joined #wam
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Present+ StevenP
14:05:06 [Steven]
zakim, dial steven-617
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ok, Steven; the call is being made
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14:05:16 [Steven]
zakim, mute me
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Steven should now be muted
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Topic: P&C spec: <span> element and dir attribute
14:05:30 [Zakim]
14:05:31 [ArtB]
AB: earlier this week Marcos submitted a proposal on how to address the <span> element and dir attribute ( ).
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MC: I'm waiting to see what the I18N WG says
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... I added <span> and dir attr to the spec
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... but I have not spec'ed he behavior
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... we want to defer the proc model to a sepearate spec
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AB: is that proving to be problematic?
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MC: it's a bit complicated
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... the bidi stuff that is
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... if dir attr is set globally, need to set limits
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... some stuff such as IRI interaction isn't clear
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... for example <name> has a short name
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... could have name in English and short name in Hebrew
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AB: are you having a diaglog with I18N group?
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MC: they were supposed to discuss it yesterday
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... haven't seen their minutes yet
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... Scott and Addison have been discussing it
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... not clear how attrs are affected by direction
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AB: what's the prior art?
14:09:43 [ArtB]
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... but I think it is underspecified
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AB: other formats?
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MC: SVG is likely
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... so we could check it
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AB: I would expect a lot of languages
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RB: SMIL, XForms, etc.
14:10:56 [darobin]
... DocBook, TEI
14:11:35 [ArtB]
AB: can we minimize the changes to P&C and defer all processing to the separate spec?
14:11:49 [ArtB]
MC: yes, that's the intent but not clear if we can get that
14:12:30 [Steven]
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... when an impl gets back a dir string, it's got additional semantics in it
14:12:57 [Steven]
ack me
14:13:06 [ArtB]
SP: can't we just use CSS for this?
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... CSS has a rule that matches bidi algorithm
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MC: there is no style associated with config.xml
14:13:53 [ArtB]
... that is also discouraged in some places e.g. HTML5
14:14:05 [Steven]
zakim, mute me
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Steven should now be muted
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ack me
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MC: the behavior we are looking for is indeed defined in CSS
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SP: can't we just say the text included behaves the same rules as CSS
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MC: yes, that is part of the solution
14:15:16 [Steven]
zakim, mute me
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Steven should now be muted
14:15:20 [ArtB]
... but there are additional issues too
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AB: let's pause to see if the I18N WG has posted their minutes from yesterday's discussion
14:16:05 [ArtB]
MC: yes, sure
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AB: I just checked their archive and see no postings on March 3 or 4
14:17:12 [Steven]
14:17:30 [Steven]
is that it?
14:17:37 [ArtB]
AB: OK, so what is the plan of action
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MC: need to continue the investigation
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... in my last email to them I asked them questions
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... we need to get their answers
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ACTION: barstow followup with Richard and Addison re the <span> and dir attribute discussions
14:18:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-506 - Followup with Richard and Addison re the <span> and dir attribute discussions [on Arthur Barstow - due 2010-03-11].
14:19:20 [ArtB]
AB: the draft agenda includes a discussion on the Widget BiDi spec
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... I presume there is no need to discuss that now
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MC: yes, that's correct; we need to get feedback from I18N WG
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... this is a new and complex area
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AB: ok; understood; KUTGW
14:20:52 [ArtB]
Topic: WARP spec
14:22:06 [ArtB]
AB: the WARP PAG is still in progress and we may continue to work on the spec ( ). Two questions here: what is the status of LC comment responses ( ) and what is the status of the test suite?
14:22:39 [ArtB]
RB: I think there is only 1 LC comment
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... and it was from Dom and is straight forward
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... I'll follow-up today
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AB: my recollection is there are two but I'll need to do some searching
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RB: I'll check too
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AB: Marcos, you will object to WARP going to CR without a test suite?
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MC: yes that is correct
14:24:13 [Steven]
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AB: a question is, who is willing to work on the test suite?
14:24:39 [Steven]
ack me
14:24:59 [ArtB]
SP: what's the problem with entering CR without a test suite?
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MC: we have had problems with other specs because there was no TS
14:26:04 [Steven]
zakim, mute me
14:26:04 [Zakim]
Steven should now be muted
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... it caused us to have to create multiple CRs
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14:26:57 [ArtB]
AB: so, is anyone willing to contribute to the WARP TS?
14:27:06 [ArtB]
MC: we need another server to test against
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... need that for cross-domain access
14:27:18 [darobin]
[we can test with www and dev]
14:27:30 [ArtB]
... think we can use and then my server or RB's server
14:28:07 [ArtB]
AB: so finding the servers doesn't seem like a big factor
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MC: could potentially do everything on one server if diff ports are used
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RB: could use and
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... so think we'll be fine
14:29:05 [ArtB]
MC: ok; let's do it that way
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... if RB could follow the pattern I used, that would be great
14:29:42 [ArtB]
RB: I can help if you
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MC: but I can help set up the infra
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... but that's not the test cases
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RB: understood
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... if you set up the infra, I'll create the tests
14:30:41 [ArtB]
AB: did I capture your agreements properly?
14:30:44 [ArtB]
RB: yes
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MC: yes
14:30:56 [ArtB]
MC: are we talking about 20 tests or so?
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... but could be more like 100
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RB: seriously doubt it will reach that high
14:31:38 [ArtB]
AB: thanks MC and RB
14:31:56 [ArtB]
Topic: URI scheme spec
14:32:03 [ArtB]
AB: Robin, did you respond to Julian Reschke's 25-Feb comment ( )?
14:32:13 [ArtB]
RB: not yet
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... I will respond to the three comments
14:32:49 [ArtB]
Topic: View Modes Media Feature spec
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AB: earlier today Robin announced a new ED of the VMMF spec ( ).
14:33:02 [darobin]
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RB: it's really simple
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... defines one media feature
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... since it is a UI-related spec, we can't be overly constraining
14:34:18 [ArtB]
... the spec says UA should make a "best-effort" attempt
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AB: any comments?
14:34:33 [ArtB]
... I like the simplicity
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... as well as providing the freedom for the UA to do-the-right-thing
14:35:01 [ArtB]
AB: what about a heads-up to CSS WG and if so, what list do we use?
14:35:30 [ArtB]
RB: yes, we should; I suggest www-style
14:36:01 [ArtB]
AB: what do people think about starting a 2-week pre-LCWD comment review period?
14:36:03 [darobin]
14:36:06 [ArtB]
RB: think that's a good idea
14:36:13 [ArtB]
MC: agree
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Arve: yes
14:36:31 [ArtB]
AB: any objections?
14:36:39 [Steven]
I'm OK wit htat
14:36:48 [Steven]
s/wit htat/with that/
14:36:52 [ArtB]
AB: OK, I'll start that review
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... and then I'll forward that announcement to www-style
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14:37:16 [ArtB]
14:37:34 [darobin]
s/RB: OK/RB: Yes, Mr Barstow/
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ACTION: barstow start a 2-week pre-LCWD review period for the VMMF spec
14:37:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-507 - Start a 2-week pre-LCWD review period for the VMMF spec [on Arthur Barstow - due 2010-03-11].
14:37:52 [ArtB]
AB: who is willing to contribute to the test suite?
14:38:07 [ArtB]
... could be a pretty thin test suite
14:38:19 [ArtB]
RB: there is only 1 normative assertion and it is a SHOULD
14:38:39 [ArtB]
MC: could be about 10 test case
14:38:59 [ArtB]
... there are 5 states plus error conditions
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... there is also the fallback behavior
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AB: anything else on this for today?
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[ No ]
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Topic: AOB
14:40:57 [ArtB]
AB: Next and last call in March is March 18 (no calls on March 11 or 25)
14:41:15 [ArtB]
AB: Heads-up: time for March 18 will be the same in US but 1 hour earlier in Europe (14:00 Paris)
14:41:51 [Steven]
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... would that be problematic?
14:42:02 [Steven]
14:42:04 [ArtB]
RB: shold be ok
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14:42:17 [Steven]
ack me
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SP: US changes on Marc 13?
14:42:38 [ArtB]
AB: yes
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RB: I must send regrets for the 18th
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AB: any other business for today?
14:43:55 [ArtB]
AB: Meeting Adjourned
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14:44:03 [Steven]
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IA_WebApps(Widgets)9:00AM has ended
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Attendees were Art_Barstow, Marcos, Bryan_Sullivan, darobin, arve, Steven
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RRSAgent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate ArtB
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RRSAgent, make log Public
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RRSAgent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate ArtB
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zakim, bye
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rrsagent, bye
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I see 2 open action items saved in :
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ACTION: barstow followup with Richard and Addison re the <span> and dir attribute discussions [1]
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recorded in
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ACTION: barstow start a 2-week pre-LCWD review period for the VMMF spec [2]
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recorded in