Chatlog 2012-05-03

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13:00:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
13:00:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/03-rdfa-irc
13:00:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:00:22 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdfa
13:00:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332
13:00:24 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 60 minutes
13:00:25 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
13:00:25 <trackbot> Date: 03 May 2012
13:01:15 <ivan> Chair: Manu
13:01:15 <ivan> scribe: niklasl
13:43:35 <bergie> bergie has joined #rdfa
14:00:40 <MacTed> MacTed has joined #rdfa
14:01:08 <niklasl> niklasl has joined #rdfa
14:01:42 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started
14:01:49 <Zakim> +??P16
14:01:52 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P16
14:01:52 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
14:02:05 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
14:02:05 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:02:06 <Zakim> +Ivan
14:02:12 <Zakim> +??P24
14:02:15 <manu1> zakim, I am ??P24
14:02:15 <Zakim> +manu1; got it
14:02:17 <Zakim> +??P21
14:02:24 <ShaneM> zakim, ??P21 is ShaneM
14:02:24 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
14:02:46 <Zakim> +??P18
14:02:50 <niklasl> zakim, I am ??P18
14:02:50 <Zakim> +niklasl; got it
14:03:13 <Zakim> +scor
14:03:43 <manu1> zakim, who is on the call?
14:03:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see gkellogg, Ivan, manu1, ShaneM, niklasl, scor
14:06:04 <manu1> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2012May/0015.html
14:07:02 <niklasl> manu: We'll go through some minor editorial changes and address some HTML5+RDFa issues.
14:07:36 <manu1> Topic: ISSUE-142: Minor editorial fixes to CR document before transitioning to PR
14:07:45 <manu1> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/142
14:07:54 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
14:08:00 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
14:08:00 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
14:08:01 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
14:08:01 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
14:08:10 <niklasl> manu: quick overview of the three edits (very recently requested):
14:08:11 <manu1> * Introductory text clarification on RDFa Lite (Liam Quin [1])
14:08:13 <manu1> * Clarification on the meaning of @about="[]" (Alex Milowski, [2])
14:08:14 <manu1> * Spelling out the case of empty list generation (Alex Milowski and Gregg Kellogg, [3,4])
14:08:21 <manu1> [1] http://www.w3.org/mid/1335828395.4787.9.camel@localhost.localdomain
14:08:23 <manu1> [2] http://www.w3.org/mid/CABp3FNLGR=Q9F3j9jkAfDx9=6xMoH9DGmPG00wfOTscn82xB5A@mail.gmail.com
14:08:25 <manu1> [3] http://www.w3.org/mid/E6D4EFA0-587A-45A3-84FE-C0E65C90E413@greggkellogg.net
14:08:26 <manu1> [4] http://www.w3.org/mid/CABp3FNJh0zJZXeHu=f-DwioZpBjMtCzPVB=+QAN_qYB7DHFu3A@mail.gmail.com
14:09:15 <niklasl> 1. Clarification in introduction of RDFa Lite
14:09:27 <manu1> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2012May/0017.html
14:09:36 <scor> scor has joined #rdfa
14:09:46 <niklasl> manu: Liam asked us to spell out what RDFa is
14:10:01 <niklasl> … and was confused by the use of "structured data"
14:10:41 <niklasl> … took "possible to grasp by web authors" as potentially insulting to web devs (not our intent of course)
14:11:28 <niklasl> … Liam was satisfied by our changes
14:13:52 <niklasl> q+
14:20:38 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
14:20:38 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
14:21:11 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
14:21:11 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
14:21:14 <manu1> ack niklasl
14:21:56 <manu1> Shane added this text to address the about="[]" issue: A related consequence of this is that when the value of an attribute of this datatype is an empty SafeCURIE (e.g., @about="[]"), that value does not result in an IRI and therefore the value is ignored.
14:22:28 <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2012/PR-rdfa-core-20120508/#s_curieprocessing
14:23:16 <MacTed> and this change brings the textual description in line with the test cases, which have reflected the intent throughout...
14:24:13 <manu1> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2012May/0019.html
14:24:16 <niklasl> 2. Alex needed clarification to how the empty list is generated (related to test 0218)
14:24:56 <niklasl> manu: we changed the step to say what happens when an empty list of list mappings is generated
14:26:04 <scor> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:26:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see gkellogg, Ivan, manu1, ShaneM, niklasl, scor, MacTed (muted)
14:26:26 <niklasl> gregg: this is consistent with what many implementations do
14:27:23 <niklasl> manu: any other changes needed to the document?
14:27:28 <niklasl> <all>: <none>
14:27:44 <manu1> PROPOSAL: Accept the editorial changes made to RDFa Core 1.1 and RDFa Lite 1.1 addressing the comments raised in ISSUE-142.
14:27:49 <gkellogg> +1
14:27:50 <ivan> +1
14:27:50 <manu1> +1
14:27:50 <niklasl> niklasl: +1
14:28:05 <MacTed> +1
14:28:06 <scor> +1
14:28:21 <ShaneM> +1
14:28:23 <manu1> RESOLVED: Accept the editorial changes made to RDFa Core 1.1 and RDFa Lite 1.1 addressing the comments raised in ISSUE-142.
14:29:54 <niklasl> manu: we'll gather votes to go into PR, then for the next month work on promotion
14:30:22 <ivan> q+
14:30:47 <niklasl> ivan: the point is, we have a four week voting period, starting tuesday next week
14:30:53 <danbri> danbri has joined #rdfa
14:33:26 <manu1> Ivan: We are going to try to get as many AC reps to vote on RDFa 1.1 and get as many testimonials as possible.
14:33:46 <manu1> Manu: We really want to get as much press around this as possible after it goes to REC.
14:34:56 <niklasl> manu: Ralph and Thomas were really happy with our work - it's because we have such a great group that we have been able to get here. Great job everybody! Very difficult road, but we made it thanks to everyone's hard work.
14:35:01 <ShaneM> q+ to ask about API specs
14:35:12 <niklasl> … Congratulations on the PR everybody!
14:35:18 <manu1> ack ivan
14:35:22 <manu1> ack shanem
14:35:22 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask about API specs
14:36:16 <niklasl> Shane: our charter is at an end, we should publish our API documentation as notes.
14:36:34 <manu1> Topic: ISSUE-126: Can use of xmlns: be reported as an error?
14:36:41 <manu1> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/126
14:37:04 <niklasl> manu: raised by Mike Smith while working on the validator code
14:37:35 <niklasl> … putting support for xmlns into that would take a lot of work, and the xmlns is deprecated in HTML5
14:38:23 <ivan> q+
14:38:41 <manu1> ack ivan
14:38:44 <niklasl> … Mike wants processors to be allowed to report use of xmlns as an error
14:38:45 <ShaneM> q+ to ask about confrmance checker texts
14:39:14 <gkellogg> ivan: "An rdfa:Error must be generated when the document fails to be fully processed as a result of non-conformant Host Language markup."
14:39:22 <niklasl> ivan: the problem is, at the moment, that RDFa Core refers to an rdfa:Error when the processor cannot process the source code
14:39:44 <niklasl> … meaning that an rdfa:Error in this sense has a consequence (stopping the processor, the result contains error)
14:40:17 <niklasl> … so in this sense, a processor (and conformance checker) should still produce a Warning
14:41:51 <manu1> ack shanem
14:41:51 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask about confrmance checker texts
14:42:12 <niklasl> shane:  I respectfully disagree. The quoted text (and we) does not *require* a processor to stop.
14:42:17 <ShaneM> " The RDFa Processor is designed to continue processing, even in the event of errors."
14:42:47 <ShaneM> "An rdfa:Error must be generated when the document fails to be fully processed as a result of non-conformant Host Language markup."
14:43:34 <niklasl> q+
14:43:54 <manu1> ack niklasl
14:44:02 <ShaneM> q+ to ask about confrmance checker texts
14:44:07 <manu1> niklas: Does he want the entire text to be removed, or does he want this to be added?
14:44:12 <manu1> ack shanem
14:44:12 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask about confrmance checker texts
14:45:48 <manu1> manu: He wants the text to be struck.
14:46:20 <niklasl> shane: we don't speak about conformance checkers in the text, right?
14:46:51 <manu1> http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/#document-conformance
14:48:12 <niklasl> manu: do you want to remove the text about conformance *checkers*?
14:49:06 <niklasl> ivan: we should change the part about checker to rdfa processor (and use the "may" wording)
14:49:47 <ShaneM> http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/#conformance-criteria-for-xmlns--prefixed-attributes
14:54:28 <manu1> PROPOSAL: Section 5.2 of the HTML+RDFa specification should state that the use of xmlns: is valid from a conformance standpoint, but that a processor may generate a warning if it detects the usage of xmlns:, which is deprecated.
14:54:37 <gkellogg> +1
14:54:38 <manu1> +1
14:54:40 <niklasl> niklasl: +1
14:54:44 <scor> +1
14:54:44 <ShaneM> +1
14:55:08 <ivan> +1
14:55:32 <manu1> RESOLVED: Section 5.2 of the HTML+RDFa specification should state that the use of xmlns: is valid from a conformance standpoint, but that a processor may generate a warning if it detects the usage of xmlns:, which is deprecated.
14:55:35 <ShaneM> can we please remove any reference to a conformance checked from the draft?
14:55:44 <ShaneM> s/checked/checker/
14:55:59 <manu1> Topic: ISSUE-141: @datetime datatype matching
14:56:05 <manu1> https://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/141
14:58:15 <niklasl> manu: we may have to reference the regexes for xsd date/time types
14:59:11 <niklasl> ivan: in the microdata-to-rdf conversion document, it just refers to the relevant parts of the HTML5 spec
14:59:31 <niklasl> manu: I agree
14:59:58 <niklasl> ivan: we can probably just use the same texts.
15:00:27 <niklasl> gregg: it actually spells out various valid datatype variants, with references (not actual regexps)
15:01:19 <niklasl> manu: but the html5 spec may violate the ISO spec for e.g. timezone or duration?
15:01:31 <niklasl> gregg: duration should be fine
15:03:45 <ShaneM> q+ to ask for a resolution to reference the latest XML Schema Definition Language in RDFa Core
15:04:38 <Zakim> -MacTed
15:04:45 <niklasl> gregg: date, time, dateTime, gYear, gYearMonth, gDuration
15:04:54 <niklasl> s/gDuration/Duration/
15:05:27 <gkellogg> s/Duration/duration/
15:05:48 <manu1> PROPOSAL: When processing the @datetime attribute in HTML5+RDFa, support the generation of the proper xsd datatype when a date, time, datetime, gYearMonth, gYear, or duration value is detected.
15:05:58 <gkellogg> +1
15:06:00 <manu1> +1
15:06:01 <ivan> +1
15:06:01 <niklasl> niklasl: +1
15:06:03 <ShaneM> +1
15:06:05 <scor> +1
15:06:29 <manu1> RESOLVED: When processing the @datetime attribute in HTML5+RDFa, support the generation of the proper xsd datatype when a date, time, datetime, gYearMonth, gYear, or duration value is detected.
15:06:52 <gkellogg> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/meetings/2011-11-17#resolution_2
15:08:40 <manu1> PROPOSAL: In the absence of a @datetime attribute, process the text contents of the TIME element using the matching rules above.
15:08:44 <niklasl> niklasl: +1
15:08:45 <manu1> +1
15:08:46 <ivan> +1
15:08:48 <gkellogg> +1
15:08:52 <scor> +1
15:08:58 <ShaneM> +1
15:09:03 <manu1> RESOLVED: In the absence of a @datetime attribute, process the text contents of the TIME element using the matching rules above.
15:09:12 <ShaneM> q
15:09:17 <manu1> ack shanem
15:09:17 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask for a resolution to reference the latest XML Schema Definition Language in RDFa Core
15:09:55 <niklasl> shane: we couldn't switch to the new xsd definition before because it's brand new
15:10:27 <manu1> PROPOSAL: Refer to the newly published XML Schema Definition Language document in RDFa Core.
15:10:32 <gkellogg> +1
15:10:33 <manu1> +1
15:10:34 <niklasl> niklasl: +1
15:10:35 <ivan> +1
15:10:38 <ShaneM> (and XHTML+RDFa)
15:10:39 <ShaneM> +1
15:10:51 <manu1> RESOLVED: Refer to the newly published XML Schema Definition Language document in RDFa Core.
15:12:18 <manu1> Topic: ISSUE-139: XHTML5 processing specifically excludes the use of xml:base
15:12:24 <manu1> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/139
15:13:31 <ShaneM> core says "The base can be set using the @xml:base attribute as defined in [XML10-4e]."
15:14:31 <manu1> PROPOSAL: XHTML5+RDFa MUST process and honor the contents of the xml:base attribute.
15:14:35 <gkellogg> +1
15:14:36 <ivan> +1
15:14:37 <niklasl> niklasl: +1
15:14:37 <manu1> +1
15:14:52 <ShaneM> +1
15:14:58 <scor> +1
15:15:01 <manu1> RESOLVED: XHTML5+RDFa MUST process and honor the contents of the xml:base attribute.
15:16:21 <scor> q+
15:16:45 <manu1> ack scor
15:17:09 <niklasl> scor: what's the timeline for this issue (135)?
15:18:25 <niklasl> ivan: tied to HTML5, but it's valuable to resolve this now
15:18:50 <ShaneM> I have updated the draft date space versions of RDFa Core and XHTML+RDFa to reflect today's resolutions
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