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Chatlog 2011-05-05
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13:58:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa 13:58:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-rdfa-irc 13:58:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world 13:58:46 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdfa 13:58:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332 13:58:48 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes 13:58:49 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference 13:58:49 <trackbot> Date: 05 May 2011 13:58:56 <manu> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011May/0028.html 13:58:59 <manu> Chair: Manu 13:59:10 <manu> Present: Ivan, Ted, Nathan, Benjamin, Manu, ShaneM, Knud 13:59:57 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started 14:00:04 <Zakim> + +1.612.217.aaaa 14:00:10 <ShaneM> zakim, I am aaaa 14:00:10 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it 14:00:23 <Zakim> +??P16 14:00:26 <manu> zakim, I am ??P16 14:00:26 <Zakim> +manu; got it 14:00:50 <Benjamin> Benjamin has joined #rdfa 14:01:06 <Zakim> + +3539149aabb 14:01:20 <Knud> zakim, I am +aabb 14:01:20 <Zakim> sorry, Knud, I do not see a party named '+aabb' 14:01:24 <MacTed> Zakim, code? 14:01:24 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), MacTed 14:01:30 <Zakim> +??P25 14:01:41 <Knud> zakim, I am aabb 14:01:41 <Zakim> +Knud; got it 14:01:42 <Zakim> +Kingsley_Idehen 14:01:49 <MacTed> Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software 14:01:50 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it 14:01:56 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me 14:01:56 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it 14:01:56 <Benjamin> zakim, i am +??P25 14:01:56 <Zakim> sorry, Benjamin, I do not see a party named '+??P25' 14:02:16 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here? 14:02:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see ShaneM, manu, Knud, ??P25, MacTed 14:02:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see Benjamin, Zakim, RRSAgent, Knud, ShaneM, MacTed, danbri, manu, ivan, webr3, manu1, trackbot 14:02:20 <Knud> zakim, mute me 14:02:20 <Zakim> Knud should now be muted 14:02:22 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy? 14:02:23 <manu> zakim, who is making noise? 14:02:33 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ShaneM (14%), manu (22%), ??P25 (75%) 14:02:43 <Zakim> manu, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: manu (15%), MacTed (19%), ??P25 (48%) 14:02:47 <MacTed> Zakim, ??p25 is Benjamin 14:02:47 <Zakim> +Benjamin; got it 14:03:00 <Benjamin> zakim, mute me 14:03:00 <Zakim> Benjamin should now be muted 14:03:16 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me 14:03:18 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted 14:04:07 <manu> Scribe: Knud 14:04:21 <manu> scribenick: Knud 14:05:18 <Knud> Manu: PaySwarm developer sandbox going live today - depends heavily on RDFa and JSON-LD: http://payswarm.com/ 14:05:22 <manu> Sandbox demo details available here: http://payswarm.com/wiki/WordPress_Recipes_Demo 14:05:39 <Zakim> +??P36 14:05:58 <webr3> zakim, i am ??p36 14:05:58 <Zakim> +webr3; got it 14:06:51 <manu> Topic: Publish the RDF Interfaces spec as a FPWD 14:07:06 <webr3> -> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdf-interfaces/Overview-src.html 14:07:16 <Knud> Nathan giving update of latest changes, reflecting feedback from RDF Web Apps community and WG members 14:07:26 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip 14:07:26 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made 14:07:27 <Zakim> +Ivan 14:07:41 <Zakim> -Benjamin 14:07:44 <Knud> Nathan: small changes based on feedback 14:07:53 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip 14:07:53 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made 14:08:13 <Zakim> +??P43 14:08:23 <Benjamin> zakim, i am ??P43 14:08:23 <Zakim> +Benjamin; got it 14:08:30 <Zakim> -Ivan 14:08:35 <Benjamin> zakim, who is making noise? 14:08:46 <Zakim> Benjamin, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: manu (28%), webr3 (20%), Benjamin (89%) 14:08:48 <Benjamin> zakim, mute me 14:08:49 <Zakim> Benjamin should now be muted 14:09:20 <Knud> Nathan: is "property" a keyword in python? 14:09:29 <Knud> Ivan: no, it's not, no problem to use it 14:09:56 <manu> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4621718/python-how-to-unshadow-the-keyword-property 14:09:57 <Knud> Nathan: "property" currently changed to "predicate" 14:10:34 <Knud> ivan: can't see property keyword in official documentation of python 14:10:57 <Knud> Ivan: maybe python 3... 14:11:38 <ivan> http://docs.python.org/release/3.1.3/reference/lexical_analysis.html 14:11:45 <Knud> manu: anyway, we can publish now and change it later, if we have to 14:11:47 <webr3> -> 2.7 http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html#keywords 14:12:27 <webr3> what would we prefer? .property or .predicate 14:12:47 <Knud> ivan: if 2.7 doesn't have property keyword, then 2.4 doesn't either 14:13:08 <manu> http://kbyanc.blogspot.com/2007/06/python-property-attribute-tricks.html 14:13:17 <Knud> manu: "property" is a built-in function 14:13:51 <Knud> manu: do we want to change the spec for this? 14:15:06 <Knud> manu: in past discussions, we noted that some people have a problem with the term "predicate" 14:15:42 <webr3> i can't see anybody who's going to be using or implementing this API having a problem with 'predicate' (personally) 14:16:22 <Knud> ivan: predicate or property won't make a big difference for RDF community 14:16:37 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me 14:16:37 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted 14:16:52 <webr3> property = rdf predicates and html rels - joined 14:17:43 <Knud> ivan: "property" for an RDFa person might have a restricted meaning, because of we have @property and @rel 14:18:59 <Knud> ted: "attribute" might be universally understood 14:19:03 <webr3> +1 predicate 14:19:53 <Knud> Manu: any concerns for publishing the spec as FPWD? 14:20:23 <Knud> Ivan: no - whatever we handle today, we handle today. The rest can be in the next version of the spec 14:21:03 <webr3> RDFNode.value is an issue 14:21:47 <Knud> Ivan: RDFNode.value naming is still under debate 14:22:37 <Knud> Ivan: name, lexicalValueare possibilities, but we didn't really like any of them 14:23:22 <Knud> Manu: maybe use lexicalValue temporarily, see if community is happy with it? 14:24:12 <Knud> Ted: still missing an explicit warning that this whole spec might still change a lot 14:24:25 <Knud> Ivan: even though it is already labelled "working draft" 14:25:43 <Knud> ivan: however, the overall structure is pretty stable 14:26:02 <Zakim> -ShaneM 14:26:02 <Knud> manu: were triplesets taken out entirely? 14:26:07 <Knud> nathan: yes, they were 14:27:38 <Zakim> +McCarron 14:27:41 <Knud> ivan: there could be text saying that "RDF WG is working on graph naming - this might find its way into this spec also" 14:27:45 <Knud> manu: I'd prefer that we tell people that we intend to put in graph naming / graph literals / g-boxes / whatever RDF WG ends up calling them. 14:28:51 <manu> PROPOSAL: Publish the RDF Interfaces as a FPWD, including changes discussed today, with a short-name of rdf-interfaces, with a target publication date of May 10th 2011. 14:28:54 <ivan> +1 14:28:57 <webr3> +1 14:28:58 <manu> +1 14:28:58 <Benjamin> +1 14:29:00 <Knud> Knud: +1 14:29:13 <Knud> Shane: +1 14:29:28 <MacTed> +1 14:29:41 <manu> RESOLVED: Publish the RDF Interfaces as a FPWD, including changes discussed today, with a short-name of rdf-interfaces, with a target publication date of May 10th 2011. 14:30:56 <webr3> q+ to say oops, may be a problem with lexicalValue 14:31:02 <ivan> q+ 14:31:07 <Knud> manu: 2nd last call exited without any major criticism 14:31:09 <manu> ack webr3 14:31:09 <Zakim> webr3, you wanted to say oops, may be a problem with lexicalValue 14:32:02 <Knud> nathan: "lexicalValue" not good choice for b-nodes 14:33:01 <Knud> nathan: how about keeping "value" and "valueOf", as it is now? 14:33:08 <Knud> ivan: no, that's too misleading 14:34:28 <Knud> (lots of ideas being thrown around) 14:34:34 <Knud> manu: nominalValue? 14:34:42 <Knud> ivan: hm, not bad 14:35:53 <Knud> ivan: maybe put an issue in the document to indicate that this term might change 14:36:23 <Zakim> -McCarron 14:36:38 <manu> ISSUE: Figure out a word to use when referring to the 'value' of a RDFNode 14:36:38 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-95 - Figure out a word to use when referring to the 'value' of a RDFNode ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/95/edit . 14:36:45 <Zakim> +McCarron 14:37:13 <ivan> q+ 14:37:25 <manu> ack ivan 14:37:34 <Knud> Topic: Scheduling RDFa Core and XHTML+RDFa Candidate Recommendation 14:37:54 <Knud> manu: any preference as to the order of publishing these and the RDF API 14:38:31 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #rdfa 14:38:56 <Benjamin> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdf-api/ 14:39:08 <Knud> ivan: we should be careful about this. We should publish all parts of the API (RDF API, RDFa API, RDF Interfaces) together. 14:39:34 <Benjamin> zakim, unmute me 14:39:34 <Zakim> Benjamin should no longer be muted 14:39:58 <Knud> Benjamin: document has been cleaned and updated 14:41:24 <Knud> manu: some things still need to be done 14:41:51 <webr3> I can do FPWD for interfaces any-time, I've just made all the changes bar adding a note about graph identifiers - can help benjamin w/ rdf-api from tomorrow if that helps 14:41:51 <Knud> Manu: I think we should really reserve two weeks for this 14:43:16 <Benjamin> zakim, mute me 14:43:16 <Zakim> Benjamin should now be muted 14:44:17 <Knud> Ivan: why not publish as FPWD as soon as possible, with the caveat that some issues might still need to be resolved afterwards 14:44:33 <Knud> manu: let's see where we stand in a week 14:45:34 <Knud> manu: some issues need to be handled still for RDFa Core Candidate Rec 14:45:43 <ShaneM> 'the w3c tax' 14:46:32 <Knud> Manu: IRI vs URI, CURIE/URI value space collision, fragment id comment from TAG 14:46:56 <webr3> iirc - both of those have equiv issues open on the RDF WG too 14:48:01 <Knud> ivan: CURIE/URI value space collision problem seems to be the one that really needs work 14:50:41 <Knud> manu: benjamin and nathan and ivan will work on RDF API FPWD for next week or the week after 14:52:01 <Knud> shane: can we have optional test cases for @role? 14:52:06 <Knud> manu: yes, we can do that 14:52:41 <Zakim> -webr3 14:52:43 <Knud> manu: you can commit test cases via github - manu, ivan, and gregg are the contact points for access rights 14:52:49 <Knud> manu: Ok, so the plan is for Nathan and Benjamin to work on the RDF API spec and get it in shape for FPWD by next week or the week after. Shane will update RDFa Core and XHTML+RDFa 1.1 for CR while the WG members work on resolving all of the remaining 2nd LC issues. 14:53:22 <manu> Topic: CURIEorURI Value Space Collisions 14:53:27 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/90 14:53:53 <manu> Niklas Lindström says "The Working Group should consider whether or not CURIEs should be further restricted in order to not conflict with future Internet protocol schemes." 14:54:00 <manu> "For instance, not allowing CURIEs in that space to use anything after the prefix+':' other than say an isegment-nz-nc from RFC 3987, or something to that effect (like a "[A-Za-z0-9_-.]+" regexp)." 14:54:23 <Knud> ivan: sounds like a very rare problem 14:55:24 <ivan> what about - db:resource/RRR 14:56:43 <manu> We could create a CURIE pattern that rejects anything that starts w/ *:// - that is a URL 14:56:54 <manu> so this is a URL under the new pattern? foo:// 14:57:20 <manu> however, it fails to protect us against this: sip:msporny@digitalbazaar.com 14:58:32 <manu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Apr/0046.html 15:03:30 <Zakim> -Knud 15:05:13 <MacTed> ACTION: manu to respond to Niklas about ISSUE-90 - backwards compat issues, Shane's response and dbpedia example. 15:05:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-75 - Respond to Niklas about ISSUE-90 - backwards compat issues, Shane's response and dbpedia example. [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-05-12]. 15:05:20 <MacTed> RRSAgent, forget action 1 15:05:20 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'forget action 1', MacTed. Try /msg RRSAgent help 15:05:23 <Benjamin> bye 15:05:25 <Zakim> -manu 15:05:25 <Zakim> -McCarron 15:05:26 <MacTed> RRSAgent, drop action 1 # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. DO NOT EDIT THIS LINE OR BELOW. SRCLINESUSED=00000198