Chatlog 2011-03-03

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14:43:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
14:43:19 <RRSAgent> logging to
14:43:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:43:21 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdfa
14:43:23 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332
14:43:23 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes
14:43:24 <trackbot> Meeting: RDFa Working Group Teleconference
14:43:24 <trackbot> Date: 03 March 2011
14:44:30 <manu> Agenda:
14:44:44 <manu> Chair: Manu
14:57:13 <markbirbeck> markbirbeck has joined #rdfa
14:57:13 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #rdfa
14:59:08 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
14:59:08 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:59:09 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started
14:59:11 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:00:22 <manu> Present: Ivan, Manu, Nathan, Shane, Steven, Toby
15:00:22 <manu> Regrets: MarkB
15:01:41 <Zakim> +??P18
15:01:50 <manu> zakim, I am ??P18
15:01:50 <Zakim> +manu; got it
15:02:35 <Zakim> +??P21
15:02:41 <ShaneM> zakim, I am ??P21
15:02:41 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
15:06:17 <Steven_> Steven_ has joined #rdfa
15:06:33 <Steven_> zakim, who is on the call?
15:06:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ivan, manu, ShaneM
15:06:37 <Zakim> +??P15
15:06:40 <Steven_> zakim, dial steven-617
15:06:40 <Zakim> ok, Steven_; the call is being made
15:06:42 <Zakim> +Steven
15:06:47 <webr3> Zakim, i am ??P15
15:06:47 <Zakim> +webr3; got it
15:10:56 <manu> scribenick: ShaneM
15:11:09 <ShaneM> TOPIC: Using xmlns in HTML+RDFa
15:09:55 <manu> Ivan: I have some updates to the agenda - xmlns: - We should discuss whether it is used in HTML5...
15:10:12 <manu> Ivan: In HTML5+RDFa 1.1, is it necessary at all to keep the references to xmlns: ?
15:11:12 <webr3> from here:
15:11:31 <ShaneM> Ivan: can we remove references to xmlns in HTML5?
15:12:04 <Zakim> -Ivan
15:12:26 <ShaneM> Manu: We can remove references, but... there is still a requirement that we process xmlns attributes in XHTML mode.
15:12:31 <ivan> zakim, drop me
15:12:31 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I do not see a party named 'ivan'
15:12:38 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:12:38 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:12:40 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:12:59 <ShaneM> ShaneM: Why is there a requirement?
15:13:35 <ShaneM> manu: There are documents that are delivered as text/html and are RDFa 1.0 documents... and those use @xmlns, and they need to be processed correctly.
15:14:02 <manu>
15:14:07 <ShaneM> ... RDFa Core says that already, so we are okay.  But HTML+RDFa needs to talk about how to extract xmlns from the infoset or DOM-based processors - it was part of the feedback on HTML5.
15:14:47 <ShaneM> ... I do intend to go back and edit so it mentions it less.  But we got feedback from the HTML5 community that we need to cover the case so processor authors know how to get the content.
15:15:38 <ShaneM> ivan: We need to say that @xmlns is deprecated in HTML+RDFa - but  for backward compatibility we need to process it.
15:15:54 <ShaneM> Manu: So this is a direction to authors, not to processor developers.
15:17:56 <manu> PROPOSAL: HTML5+RDFa 1.1 should mention that xmlns: is processed only for backwards-compatibility reasons and that authors SHOULD NOT use xmlns: and should use @prefix instead.
15:18:15 <tinkster> +1
15:18:18 <ShaneM> +1
15:18:22 <ivan> +1
15:18:28 <Steven_> +0
15:19:10 <manu> +1
15:19:26 <webr3> +1
15:20:14 <manu> RESOLVED: HTML5+RDFa 1.1 should mention that xmlns: is processed only for backwards-compatibility reasons and that authors SHOULD NOT use xmlns: and should use @prefix instead.
15:21:53 <manu> Ivan: Why do we have the "Why CURIEs insteaed of QNames?" section?
15:21:58 <ShaneM> Ivan: Why is there a section about Qnames instead of CURIEs?
15:22:35 <manu> I think that we do need that section in there
15:22:43 <ShaneM> ShaneM: Because a commentor wanted us to explain why we are using CURIEs rather than Qnames.
15:22:51 <ShaneM> ivan: okay - but I think it is unnecessary.
15:23:11 <manu> Topic: ISSUE-73: Default RDFa Profile Processing
15:23:27 <manu>
15:25:05 <ShaneM> Manu: explains the context of the discussion...  that RDFa Core has a profile defined, and that other host languages may include multiple profiles at start up if they choose.
15:25:55 <ShaneM> Ivan: Editorial question...  does this mean that host languages need to indicate which default profiles they use (if any) ?
15:25:57 <ShaneM> ShaneM: yes.
15:26:39 <ShaneM> Ivan: Will anyone else produce a formal host language?
15:26:46 <ShaneM> ShaneM: ODF?  DAISY?
15:27:07 <ShaneM> Ivan: Well, no.  Those are not really formal.  They will default to XML+RDFa
15:27:40 <ShaneM> ... Toby has an ATOM+RDFa profile... that might be something formal.
15:27:59 <ShaneM> Manu: But what you were discussing is what happens in the absence of a formal language, and I would expect that many processors will default to XML+RDFa.
15:30:24 <manu> Topic: RDFa Core 1.1 and XHTML+RDFa 1.1 Updates
15:30:38 <webr3> ->
15:31:02 <manu>
15:31:44 <ShaneM> Just waiting for feedback.  Already got feedback from Ivan and Nathan
15:33:04 <Zakim> -Ivan
15:33:29 <ivan> zakim, drop me
15:33:29 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I do not see a party named 'ivan'
15:33:45 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:33:45 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:33:47 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:34:14 <manu> zakim, drop Ivan
15:34:14 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
15:34:15 <Zakim> -Ivan
15:35:05 <ShaneM> Reviews to Shane no later than noon US central time on Sunday, 6 March.  
15:35:16 <ShaneM> Shane to produce a dated version with diff marks on 6 March.
15:35:28 <ShaneM> Manu to notify commentors so that they can review.
15:42:53 <ShaneM> TOPIC: RDFa Primer
15:42:23 <Steven_> I volunteer to re-work the RDFa Primer
15:42:46 <ShaneM> Yay!
15:43:08 <ShaneM> Primer at
15:43:32 <ShaneM> Steven has volunteered to edit the RDFa Primer.
15:45:27 <ShaneM> TOPIC: RDFa and RDF API discussion
15:36:58 <ShaneM> Manu: There might not be the right people here.
15:37:46 <ShaneM> ... there are some other players who need to be involved.  BBC, DFKI, Revelytix, Google, Mark?
15:45:53 <ShaneM> Manu: I think three people are enough to discuss, but we might end up going back and revisiting because we have new blood showing up with the new charter
15:46:06 <ShaneM> ... I am reluctant to delay for 5 weeks.
15:46:22 <ShaneM> Ivan: Are the documents publishable today if we marked them up with lots of 'issues' ?
15:46:49 <ShaneM> ... the problem I have is that the only public draft we have is old and makes it hard to beat the bushes for new players.
15:47:03 <ShaneM> Manu: I believe both documents are in a state that we could publish.
15:47:10 <webr3> q+ to disagree
15:47:33 <ShaneM> ... the old documents aren't in that that bad a shape.  Not as bad as Ivan thinks they are.  There are already some examples.  The WebIDL is pretty solid.  We need prose.
15:47:36 <manu> ack webr3
15:47:36 <Zakim> webr3, you wanted to disagree
15:48:16 <ShaneM> Nathan: The documents still need some work... the RDFa API needs to be 'minified' because it duplicates content in the RDF API.  A couple of hours.
15:48:35 <ShaneM> ... The RDF API needs a bit of work to flesh them out before it could go public.
15:49:01 <ShaneM> Ivan: Then I propose that we don't wait for 4 or 5 weeks.  Let's publish them as soon as possible.
15:49:06 <ShaneM> q+ to ask a process issue
15:49:15 <ShaneM> ... this will draw attention to our work.
15:49:16 <manu> ack ShaneM
15:49:16 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask a process issue
15:49:58 <ShaneM> ShaneM: Can we publish RDF API Working Draft document under our current charter?
15:50:02 <ShaneM> Ivan: Yes.
15:50:18 <ShaneM> Nathan: Would it be at its permanent home? 
15:50:38 <ShaneM> Ivan: I think so.  The short name shouldn't change after the charter changes.
15:51:38 <ShaneM> We need to discuss Prefixes and Terms.  and we also need to discuss projections and property groups.
15:54:55 <ShaneM> concern about critical mass of expertise for API discussions.
15:54:59 <manu> ACTION: Ivan to invite new participants to RDF Web Apps Working Group as soon as possible.
15:54:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-68 - Invite new participants to RDF Web Apps Working Group as soon as possible. [on Ivan Herman - due 2011-03-10].
16:00:11 <ShaneM> Ivan: Let's spend the time in the next weeks talking about RDFa Core and RDFa Core test suites so CR can be as short as possible.
16:00:45 <manu> ACTION: Manu to ping people that have not responded to previous LC comments.
16:00:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-69 - Ping people that have not responded to previous LC comments. [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-03-10].
16:00:47 <Zakim> -Steven
16:01:13 <Steven_> zakim, dial steven-617
16:01:13 <Zakim> ok, Steven_; the call is being made
16:01:14 <Zakim> +Steven
16:01:43 <ivan> zakim, drop me
16:01:43 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
16:01:43 <Zakim> -Steven
16:01:44 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:01:44 <Zakim> -manu
16:01:46 <Zakim> -webr3
16:01:56 <Zakim> -ShaneM
16:02:00 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended
16:02:05 <Zakim> Attendees were Ivan, manu, ShaneM, Steven, webr3