13:56:59 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-rdfa-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-rdfa-irc ←
13:57:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
13:57:03 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 7332 ←
13:57:04 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
13:57:04 <trackbot> Date: 28 July 2011
13:57:04 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes ←
13:57:06 <manu1> Chair: Manu
13:57:06 <manu1> Guest: Stéphane (scor) Corlosquet
13:57:06 <manu1> Guest: Henri (bergie) Bergius
13:57:06 <manu1> Guest: Niklas (lindstream) Lindström
13:57:50 <manu1> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jul/0058.html
13:57:58 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started ←
13:58:05 <Zakim> +??P14
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14 ←
13:58:22 <lindstream> zakim, I am ??P14
Niklas Lindström: zakim, I am ??P14 ←
13:58:22 <Zakim> +lindstream; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +lindstream; got it ←
13:58:30 <Zakim> +??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17 ←
13:58:33 <manu1> zakim, I am ??P17
Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P17 ←
13:58:33 <Zakim> +manu1; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +manu1; got it ←
13:59:44 <Zakim> +??P19
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19 ←
13:59:53 <gkellogg> zakim, i am ??P19
Gregg Kellogg: zakim, i am ??P19 ←
13:59:54 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it ←
14:00:24 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
14:00:31 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
14:00:33 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
14:00:35 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
14:00:37 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
14:00:44 <MacTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
Ted Thibodeau: RRSAgent, draft minutes ←
14:00:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-rdfa-minutes.html MacTed
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-rdfa-minutes.html MacTed ←
14:00:57 <MacTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
Ted Thibodeau: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
14:02:19 <Zakim> + +1.781.866.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.781.866.aaaa ←
14:02:36 <Zakim> + +3539149aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +3539149aabb ←
14:02:43 <Zakim> + +358.405.25aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +358.405.25aacc ←
14:02:50 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:02:50 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
14:02:52 <Knud> zakim, i am aabb
Knud Möller: zakim, i am aabb ←
14:02:52 <Zakim> +Knud; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Knud; got it ←
14:02:57 <bergie> zakim, I am aacc
Henri Bergius: zakim, I am aacc ←
14:02:57 <Zakim> +bergie; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bergie; got it ←
14:03:01 <bergie> zakim, mute me
Henri Bergius: zakim, mute me ←
14:03:01 <Zakim> bergie should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bergie should now be muted ←
14:03:37 <Knud> zakim, mute me
Knud Möller: zakim, mute me ←
14:03:37 <Zakim> Knud should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Knud should now be muted ←
14:04:02 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here? ←
14:04:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see lindstream, manu1, gkellogg, MacTed, +1.781.866.aaaa, Knud (muted), bergie (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see lindstream, manu1, gkellogg, MacTed, +1.781.866.aaaa, Knud (muted), bergie (muted) ←
14:04:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see scor, Knud, tomayac, Zakim, RRSAgent, lindstream, MacTed, danbri, bergie, gkellogg, manu1, manu, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see scor, Knud, tomayac, Zakim, RRSAgent, lindstream, MacTed, danbri, bergie, gkellogg, manu1, manu, trackbot ←
14:04:16 <scor> zakim, I'm aaaa
Stéphane Corlosquet: zakim, I'm aaaa ←
14:04:16 <Zakim> I don't understand 'I'm aaaa', scor
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'I'm aaaa', scor ←
14:04:24 <MacTed> Zakim, aaaa is scor
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, aaaa is scor ←
14:04:27 <Zakim> +scor; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +scor; got it ←
14:04:29 <scor> zakim, aaaa is me
Stéphane Corlosquet: zakim, aaaa is me ←
14:04:31 <Zakim> sorry, scor, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, scor, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa' ←
14:05:00 <manu1> zakim, who is on the call?
Manu Sporny: zakim, who is on the call? ←
14:05:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see lindstream, manu1, gkellogg, MacTed, scor, Knud (muted), bergie (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see lindstream, manu1, gkellogg, MacTed, scor, Knud (muted), bergie (muted) ←
14:05:06 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
14:05:09 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
14:05:12 <Zakim> +tomayac
Zakim IRC Bot: +tomayac ←
14:06:42 <manu1> scribenick: tomayac
(Scribe set to Thomas Steiner)
14:07:28 <tomayac> manu1: Do we need to discuss http://structured-data.org/ ?
Manu Sporny: Do we need to discuss http://structured-data.org/ ? ←
14:07:41 <tomayac> gkellogg: no news, continous work, but not ready for release yet
Gregg Kellogg: no news, continous work, but not ready for release yet ←
14:08:20 <tomayac> manu1: Tantek Çelik from Microformats community and Philip Jägenstedt and Henri Sivonen from Microdata community have been added to the structured-data code repository as admins. We are attempting to build bridges - hopefully this is a good first step.
Manu Sporny: Tantek Çelik from Microformats community and Philip Jägenstedt and Henri Sivonen from Microdata community have been added to the structured-data code repository as admins. We are attempting to build bridges - hopefully this is a good first step. ←
14:09:17 <manu1> Topic: Proxy vocabularies via @vocab
14:09:43 <lindstream> https://gist.github.com/1092350
Niklas Lindström: https://gist.github.com/1092350 ←
14:09:48 <manu1> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jul/0048.html
Manu Sporny: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jul/0048.html ←
14:10:02 <Zakim> +??P48
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P48 ←
14:10:16 <ShaneM> zakim, who is here?
Shane McCarron: zakim, who is here? ←
14:10:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see lindstream, manu1, gkellogg, MacTed (muted), scor, Knud (muted), bergie (muted), tomayac, ??P48
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see lindstream, manu1, gkellogg, MacTed (muted), scor, Knud (muted), bergie (muted), tomayac, ??P48 ←
14:10:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see ShaneM, scor, Knud, tomayac, Zakim, RRSAgent, lindstream, MacTed, danbri, bergie, gkellogg, manu1, manu, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see ShaneM, scor, Knud, tomayac, Zakim, RRSAgent, lindstream, MacTed, danbri, bergie, gkellogg, manu1, manu, trackbot ←
14:10:22 <ShaneM> zakim, I am ??P48
Shane McCarron: zakim, I am ??P48 ←
14:10:22 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM; got it ←
14:11:00 <tomayac> Niklas talks us through https://gist.github.com/1092350 - Basically a Proxy Vocabulary would allow people to define uber-vocabularies, like http://schema.org/ , but also ensure that there is a clear mechanism of mapping those vocabularies to dc, foaf, sioc or other more widely used vocabularies.
Niklas talks us through https://gist.github.com/1092350 - Basically a Proxy Vocabulary would allow people to define uber-vocabularies, like http://schema.org/ , but also ensure that there is a clear mechanism of mapping those vocabularies to dc, foaf, sioc or other more widely used vocabularies. ←
14:11:56 <tomayac> manu1: this almost looks like a re-invention of rdfa profiles. not saying it's a bad thing, just want to understand why we have things like map:ProxyTerm and map:ProxyClass.
Manu Sporny: this almost looks like a re-invention of rdfa profiles. not saying it's a bad thing, just want to understand why we have things like map:ProxyTerm and map:ProxyClass. ←
14:12:06 <Knud> should this be part of the RDFa spec, or a separate spec (a W3C note?) that do we reference?
Knud Möller: should this be part of the RDFa spec, or a separate spec (a W3C note?) that do we reference? ←
14:12:12 <tomayac> lindstream: it grew from that (RDFa Profiles). similarity is intentional.
Niklas Lindström: it grew from that (RDFa Profiles). similarity is intentional. ←
14:13:20 <Knud> q+
Knud Möller: q+ ←
14:13:37 <tomayac> manu1: Proxy Vocabularies are a post-processing step
Manu Sporny: Proxy Vocabularies are a post-processing step ←
14:14:04 <tomayac> manu1: wondering why not just using rdfs instead of map?
Manu Sporny: wondering why not just using rdfs instead of map? ←
14:14:21 <gkellogg> +1 to talk about diff with rdfs
Gregg Kellogg: +1 to talk about diff with rdfs ←
14:14:51 <gkellogg> q+ to talk about diff with rdfs
Gregg Kellogg: q+ to talk about diff with rdfs ←
14:15:47 <Knud> zakim, unmute me
Knud Möller: zakim, unmute me ←
14:15:47 <Zakim> Knud should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Knud should no longer be muted ←
14:15:48 <manu1> ack Knud
Manu Sporny: ack Knud ←
14:16:08 <tomayac> knud: do you think this should be a part of rdfa, or a best practice?
Knud Möller: do you think this should be a part of rdfa, or a best practice? ←
14:16:28 <lindstream> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
14:16:41 <tomayac> lindstream: i don't see this as a part of rdfa
Niklas Lindström: i don't see this as a part of rdfa ←
14:16:45 <manu1> ack gkellogg
Manu Sporny: ack gkellogg ←
14:16:45 <Zakim> gkellogg, you wanted to talk about diff with rdfs
Zakim IRC Bot: gkellogg, you wanted to talk about diff with rdfs ←
14:17:00 <tomayac> gkellogg: this can be more generic than just rdfa
Gregg Kellogg: this can be more generic than just rdfa ←
14:17:12 <tomayac> gkellogg: it includes some of the rdf entailment rules
Gregg Kellogg: it includes some of the rdf entailment rules ←
14:17:23 <tomayac> gkellogg: you don't need something like owl:sameas which requires multiple iterations at times and is NP Complete.
Gregg Kellogg: you don't need something like owl:sameas which requires multiple iterations at times and is NP Complete. ←
14:18:03 <tomayac> gkellogg: Proxy Vocabularies are simpler - we probably do want something normative about it
Gregg Kellogg: Proxy Vocabularies are simpler - we probably do want something normative about it ←
14:18:05 <manu1> ack lindstream
Manu Sporny: ack lindstream ←
14:18:33 <tomayac> lindstream: it would be good to publish a note apart from the rdfa spec
Niklas Lindström: it would be good to publish a note apart from the rdfa spec ←
14:18:45 <tomayac> lindstream: there might be a need for this pattern elsewhere
Niklas Lindström: there might be a need for this pattern elsewhere ←
14:19:09 <manu1> q+ to respond directly to Knud's question
Manu Sporny: q+ to respond directly to Knud's question ←
14:19:28 <tomayac> lindstream: not sure if it's better than mixing vocabularies, but imho it's very valuable
Niklas Lindström: not sure if it's better than mixing vocabularies, but imho it's very valuable ←
14:19:28 <Knud> q+
Knud Möller: q+ ←
14:19:46 <manu1> ack manu1
Manu Sporny: ack manu1 ←
14:19:46 <Zakim> manu1, you wanted to respond directly to Knud's question
Zakim IRC Bot: manu1, you wanted to respond directly to Knud's question ←
14:20:05 <tomayac> manu1: we should say something normative about it
Manu Sporny: we should say something normative about it ←
14:20:34 <tomayac> manu1: mapping might be done differently by google, facebook, etc.
Manu Sporny: mapping might be done differently by google, facebook, etc. ←
14:21:02 <tomayac> manu1: there's an opportunity to be specific on how we expect follow your nose to work.
Manu Sporny: there's an opportunity to be specific on how we expect follow your nose to work. ←
14:21:04 <manu1> ack knud
Manu Sporny: ack knud ←
14:21:21 <tomayac> knud: not yet completely convinced
Knud Möller: not yet completely convinced ←
14:21:47 <tomayac> knud: a stand-alone doc might be more useful
Knud Möller: a stand-alone doc might be more useful ←
14:22:24 <tomayac> knud: facebook and google don't seem to want people to mix vocabularies, also microdata people think uber-vocabularies would be easier
Knud Möller: facebook and google don't seem to want people to mix vocabularies, also microdata people think uber-vocabularies would be easier ←
14:22:58 <manu1> q+
Manu Sporny: q+ ←
14:23:08 <tomayac> knud: being able to mix vocabularies was our main motiviation to introduce profiles
Knud Möller: being able to mix vocabularies was our main motiviation to introduce profiles ←
14:23:09 <manu1> ack manu1
Manu Sporny: ack manu1 ←
14:23:29 <tomayac> knud: but it seems that the big players don't want / need this, though
Knud Möller: but it seems that the big players don't want / need this, though ←
14:23:52 <tomayac> manu: I'm concerned about the W3C process
Manu Sporny: I'm concerned about the W3C process ←
14:24:23 <lindstream> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
14:24:25 <tomayac> manu1: pushing this separately as a REC is out of charter
Manu Sporny: pushing this separately as a REC is out of charter ←
14:24:38 <tomayac> manu1: we can put it in the rdfa core spec, but there are also issues with doing that - we may be too specific to RDFa - Proxy Vocabularies are a more general solution.
Manu Sporny: we can put it in the rdfa core spec, but there are also issues with doing that - we may be too specific to RDFa - Proxy Vocabularies are a more general solution. ←
14:24:53 <tomayac> manu1: we can always publish it as a note and people can either ignore or use it
Manu Sporny: we can always publish it as a note and people can either ignore or use it ←
14:25:07 <tomayac> lindstream: i didn't ask to be normative about this
Niklas Lindström: i didn't ask to be normative about this ←
14:25:21 <manu1> ack lindstream
Manu Sporny: ack lindstream ←
14:25:58 <gkellogg> q+
Gregg Kellogg: q+ ←
14:26:00 <Knud> zakim, mute me
Knud Möller: zakim, mute me ←
14:26:00 <Zakim> Knud should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Knud should now be muted ←
14:26:03 <manu1> ack gkellogg
Manu Sporny: ack gkellogg ←
14:26:05 <tomayac> manu1: I would be fine with publishing as a note
Manu Sporny: I would be fine with publishing as a note ←
14:26:34 <ShaneM> q+ to ask what problem are we trying to solve?
Shane McCarron: q+ to ask what problem are we trying to solve? ←
14:26:57 <tomayac> gkellogg: doing it in a non-normative way might result in everyone just doing it their way
Gregg Kellogg: doing it in a non-normative way might result in everyone just doing it their way ←
14:27:03 <manu1> ack ShaneM
Manu Sporny: ack ShaneM ←
14:27:04 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask what problem are we trying to solve?
Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to ask what problem are we trying to solve? ←
14:27:05 <tomayac> gkellogg: might lead to confusion
Gregg Kellogg: might lead to confusion ←
14:27:31 <tomayac> shanem: we created this WG with a set of use cases and a plan to address them
Shane McCarron: we created this WG with a set of use cases and a plan to address them ←
14:27:57 <tomayac> shanem: if we come to the end without addressing the use cases, we should just say we don't address them
Shane McCarron: if we come to the end without addressing the use cases, we should just say we don't address them ←
14:28:37 <tomayac> manu1: we were very concerned about vocabulary mixing
Manu Sporny: we were very concerned about vocabulary mixing ←
14:28:46 <MacTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
14:28:54 <tomayac> shanem: if we come out of this without a way to do it, i feel like we have not done our job
Shane McCarron: if we come out of this without a way to do it, i feel like we have not done our job ←
14:29:26 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:29:26 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
14:29:39 <tomayac> manu1: does not be normative mean you (OpenLink) wouldn't put it in Virtuouso
Manu Sporny: does not be normative mean you (OpenLink) wouldn't put it in Virtuouso ←
14:30:37 <Knud> vocabulary mixing can always be done with @prefix, right?
Knud Möller: vocabulary mixing can always be done with @prefix, right? ←
14:30:55 <tomayac> macted: not necessarily, @prefix doesn't allow term re-mixing?
Ted Thibodeau: not necessarily, @prefix doesn't allow term re-mixing? ←
14:31:22 <tomayac> manu1: would proxy vocabularies be a good replacement?
Manu Sporny: would proxy vocabularies be a good replacement? ←
14:32:02 <tomayac> shanem: i would agree
Shane McCarron: i would agree ←
14:32:12 <tomayac> macted: not sure what problem is being resolved
Ted Thibodeau: not sure what problem is being resolved ←
14:33:18 <tomayac> manu1: option 1 = modify prefix, 2 = use vocab, but limits to one vocabulary
Manu Sporny: option 1 = modify prefix, 2 = use vocab, but limits to one vocabulary ←
14:33:46 <tomayac> manu1: proxy vocabulary allows for mixing via a big über vocabulary
Manu Sporny: proxy vocabulary allows for mixing via a big über vocabulary ←
14:34:10 <ShaneM> q+ to ask for a clarification on @vocab
Shane McCarron: q+ to ask for a clarification on @vocab ←
14:34:24 <manu1> ack shanem
Manu Sporny: ack shanem ←
14:34:24 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask for a clarification on @vocab
Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to ask for a clarification on @vocab ←
14:34:45 <tomayac> shanem: if I'm a semantic data processing engine, and I see a term called 'foo', I'm gonna follow my nose to the profile document
Shane McCarron: if I'm a semantic data processing engine, and I see a term called 'foo', I'm gonna follow my nose to the profile document ←
14:35:14 <lindstream> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
14:35:16 <tomayac> shanem: when I do that, I see that 'foo' maps to 'foaf:name'. Shouldn't a hardcore semantic data processing engine be doing that anyway?
Shane McCarron: when I do that, I see that 'foo' maps to 'foaf:name'. Shouldn't a hardcore semantic data processing engine be doing that anyway? ←
14:35:32 <manu1> ack lindstream
Manu Sporny: ack lindstream ←
14:35:34 <tomayac> manu1: in theory this is how it works, in practice - I don't think there are many people doing that.
Manu Sporny: in theory this is how it works, in practice - I don't think there are many people doing that. ←
14:35:52 <tomayac> lindstream: it is true that we already have all the semantic mechanisms there
Niklas Lindström: it is true that we already have all the semantic mechanisms there ←
14:36:11 <manu1> q+ to add normative statements to @vocab
Manu Sporny: q+ to add normative statements to @vocab ←
14:36:21 <tomayac> lindstream: it is more or less putting a focus on how to do it. Proxy Vocabularies are a middle-ground between hardcore entailment/reasoning and dumb processing. If we want this stuff to work well in browsers, we can't expect an NP Complete solution to get traction.
Niklas Lindström: it is more or less putting a focus on how to do it. Proxy Vocabularies are a middle-ground between hardcore entailment/reasoning and dumb processing. If we want this stuff to work well in browsers, we can't expect an NP Complete solution to get traction. ←
14:37:18 <gkellogg> q+
Gregg Kellogg: q+ ←
14:37:30 <tomayac> shanem: if the semweb isn't doing this yet, then probably they never will. who needs the hint?
Shane McCarron: if the semweb isn't doing this yet, then probably they never will. who needs the hint? ←
14:37:38 <tomayac> lindstream: the non-hardcore engines
Niklas Lindström: the non-hardcore engines ←
14:37:45 <tomayac> shanem: but they don't seem to care
Shane McCarron: but they don't seem to care ←
14:37:51 <tomayac> lindstream: fair enough...
Niklas Lindström: fair enough... ←
14:37:52 <manu1> ack manu1
Manu Sporny: ack manu1 ←
14:37:52 <Zakim> manu1, you wanted to add normative statements to @vocab
Zakim IRC Bot: manu1, you wanted to add normative statements to @vocab ←
14:38:15 <tomayac> manu1: what if we said normatively that you should use proxy vocabularies if you plan to do an uber vocabulary?
Manu Sporny: what if we said normatively that you should use proxy vocabularies if you plan to do an uber vocabulary? ←
14:38:28 <lindstream> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
14:39:07 <tomayac> manu1: we shouldn't have to say this
Manu Sporny: we shouldn't have to say this ←
14:39:23 <manu1> ack gkellogg
Manu Sporny: ack gkellogg ←
14:39:24 <tomayac> manu1: we expect people that use vocab to make sure that people can follow their nose
Manu Sporny: we expect people that use vocab to make sure that people can follow their nose ←
14:39:43 <tomayac> gkellogg: we have to remember that there's a difference between processing and reasoning
Gregg Kellogg: we have to remember that there's a difference between processing and reasoning ←
14:40:07 <tomayac> gkellogg: if we ever want to have browser vendors to do stuff with this, reasoning won't be the way
Gregg Kellogg: if we ever want to have browser vendors to do stuff with this, reasoning won't be the way ←
14:40:08 <ShaneM> text from the role spec about vocabluaries: It is possible to define additional role values. Such values must be defined in their own vocabulary. The URI associated with that vocabulary should resolve to a resource that allows for the machine and human discovery of the definition of the roles in the vocabulary. One format that achieves this is the RDFa Profile as defined in [RDFA-CORE].
Shane McCarron: text from the role spec about vocabluaries: It is possible to define additional role values. Such values must be defined in their own vocabulary. The URI associated with that vocabulary should resolve to a resource that allows for the machine and human discovery of the definition of the roles in the vocabulary. One format that achieves this is the RDFa Profile as defined in [RDFA-CORE]. ←
14:40:22 <manu1> ack lindstream
Manu Sporny: ack lindstream ←
14:40:52 <tomayac> lindstream: since vocab is used to turn the term into a uri, you should be able to get info on what it is
Niklas Lindström: since vocab is used to turn the term into a uri, you should be able to get info on what it is ←
14:41:26 <ShaneM> I am happy to add text to RDFa Core that indicates the URI for @vocab must resolve and SHOULD resolve to a resource that ... (see above)
Shane McCarron: I am happy to add text to RDFa Core that indicates the URI for @vocab must resolve and SHOULD resolve to a resource that ... (see above) ←
14:41:56 <tomayac> lindstream: hardcore semweb engines follow their noses, others don't
Niklas Lindström: hardcore semweb engines follow their noses, others don't ←
14:42:26 <tomayac> manu1: seems like we have come full circle here, this stuff should just work in an "ideal world" - however, we are not operating in that and some guidance would be good.
Manu Sporny: seems like we have come full circle here, this stuff should just work in an "ideal world" - however, we are not operating in that and some guidance would be good. ←
14:43:55 <tomayac> shanem: if the community is unable to figure out follow your nose reliably, the semantic web community has failed miserably in explaining it correctly. How is this problem? We're just writing a small spec on top of the sem web stack - isn't this the responsibility of the larger semweb community?
Shane McCarron: if the community is unable to figure out follow your nose reliably, the semantic web community has failed miserably in explaining it correctly. How is this problem? We're just writing a small spec on top of the sem web stack - isn't this the responsibility of the larger semweb community? ←
14:44:16 <lindstream> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
14:45:13 <ShaneM> Ted: put it in the primer
Ted Thibodeau: put it in the primer [ Scribe Assist by Shane McCarron ] ←
14:45:27 <tomayac> shanem: we are now endlessly complicating
Shane McCarron: we are now endlessly complicating ←
14:46:29 <Knud> isn't there a W3C document somewhere called "the self-describing web"?
Knud Möller: isn't there a W3C document somewhere called "the self-describing web"? ←
14:46:33 <ShaneM> the sem web coord group may surprise you and point you at an existing spec that describes follow your nose
Shane McCarron: the sem web coord group may surprise you and point you at an existing spec that describes follow your nose ←
14:46:50 <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/selfDescribingDocuments.html
Shane McCarron: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/selfDescribingDocuments.html ←
14:47:06 <Knud> yes, that
Knud Möller: yes, that ←
14:48:09 <ShaneM> q+ to clarify whether we want language in rdfa core that indicates that a vocab should include an RDFa definition of the vocab
Shane McCarron: q+ to clarify whether we want language in rdfa core that indicates that a vocab should include an RDFa definition of the vocab ←
14:48:21 <manu1> ack lindstream
Manu Sporny: ack lindstream ←
14:48:51 <MacTed> it just seems that we're doing s/@profile/@proxyvocab/g
Ted Thibodeau: it just seems that we're doing s/@profile/@proxyvocab/g ←
14:49:05 <MacTed> not really changing what's happening -- just the term for it
Ted Thibodeau: not really changing what's happening -- just the term for it ←
14:49:07 <tomayac> manu1: the semweb coordination group might be a good candidate for publishing this doc
Manu Sporny: the semweb coordination group might be a good candidate for publishing this doc ←
14:49:24 <manu1> ACTION: Manu to raise @profile and Proxy Vocabulary issue with SWCG.
ACTION: Manu to raise @profile and Proxy Vocabulary issue with SWCG. ←
14:49:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-88 - Raise @profile and Proxy Vocabulary issue with SWCG. [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-08-04].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-88 - Raise @profile and Proxy Vocabulary issue with SWCG. [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-08-04]. ←
14:49:50 <ShaneM> q?
Shane McCarron: q? ←
14:49:54 <manu1> ack shanem
Manu Sporny: ack shanem ←
14:49:54 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to clarify whether we want language in rdfa core that indicates that a vocab should include an RDFa definition of the vocab
Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to clarify whether we want language in rdfa core that indicates that a vocab should include an RDFa definition of the vocab ←
14:50:20 <tomayac> shanem: do you want me to put that sentence (above) in the spec?
Shane McCarron: do you want me to put that sentence (above) in the spec? ←
14:50:22 <Knud> RDFa or other RDF?
Knud Möller: RDFa or other RDF? ←
14:50:30 <tomayac> shanem: objections? none
Shane McCarron: objections? none ←
14:50:33 <Knud> zakim, unmute me
Knud Möller: zakim, unmute me ←
14:50:33 <Zakim> Knud should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Knud should no longer be muted ←
14:50:53 <ShaneM> The URI associated with that vocabulary should resolve to a resource that allows for the machine and human discovery of the definition of the roles in the vocabulary. One format that achieves this is the RDFa Profile as defined in [RDFA-CORE].
Shane McCarron: The URI associated with that vocabulary should resolve to a resource that allows for the machine and human discovery of the definition of the roles in the vocabulary. One format that achieves this is the RDFa Profile as defined in [RDFA-CORE]. ←
14:51:47 <lindstream> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
14:51:50 <ShaneM> RDFa Profiles are collections of terms, prefix mappings, and/or default vocabulary declarations. A profile is either intrinsically known to the parser, or it is loaded as an external document and processed. These documents must be defined in an approved RDFa Host Language (currently XML+RDFa and XHTML+RDFa [XHTML-RDFA]). They may also be defined in other formats (e.g., RDF/XML [RDF-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR], or Turtle [TURTLE]). RDFa Profiles are referenced via @profile
Shane McCarron: RDFa Profiles are collections of terms, prefix mappings, and/or default vocabulary declarations. A profile is either intrinsically known to the parser, or it is loaded as an external document and processed. These documents must be defined in an approved RDFa Host Language (currently XML+RDFa and XHTML+RDFa [XHTML-RDFA]). They may also be defined in other formats (e.g., RDF/XML [RDF-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR], or Turtle [TURTLE]). RDFa Profiles are referenced via @profile ←
14:52:00 <manu1> ack lindstream
Manu Sporny: ack lindstream ←
14:52:17 <tomayac> lindstream: i agree. it is just a uri
Niklas Lindström: i agree. it is just a uri ←
14:52:39 <tomayac> Topic: Removing @profile
14:52:39 <tomayac> manu1: are we ok with removing profile entirely from rdfa core?
Manu Sporny: are we ok with removing profile entirely from rdfa core? ←
14:53:02 <tomayac> manu1: with the assumption that the vocabulary stuff will be cleared
Manu Sporny: with the assumption that the vocabulary stuff will be cleared ←
14:53:09 <MacTed> q+
Ted Thibodeau: q+ ←
14:53:28 <manu1> ack macted
Manu Sporny: ack macted ←
14:53:58 <tomayac> macted: we don't seem to have a clear understanding of what the problem is
Ted Thibodeau: we don't seem to have a clear understanding of what the problem is ←
14:54:03 <Knud> q+
Knud Möller: q+ ←
14:54:04 <lindstream> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
14:54:08 <manu1> ack knud
Manu Sporny: ack knud ←
14:54:23 <tomayac> knud: the problem with profile is that rdfa core requires it to be resolved
Knud Möller: the problem with profile is that rdfa core requires it to be resolved ←
14:54:30 <tomayac> knud: what if it can't ?
Knud Möller: what if it can't ? ←
14:54:45 <tomayac> knud: vocab does not have to be resolved, it can be, though
Knud Möller: vocab does not have to be resolved, it can be, though ←
14:55:19 <manu1> ack lindstream
Manu Sporny: ack lindstream ←
14:55:32 <tomayac> manu1: to clarify: RDFa Profiles via @profile is a 'must pre-process' mechanism, Proxy Vocabularies via @vocab is a 'may post-process' mechanism
Manu Sporny: to clarify: RDFa Profiles via @profile is a 'must pre-process' mechanism, Proxy Vocabularies via @vocab is a 'may post-process' mechanism ←
14:55:45 <ShaneM> not MAY pre-process. CAN post-process.
Shane McCarron: not MAY pre-process. CAN post-process. ←
14:56:02 <ShaneM> And, FWIW, it was ALWAYS this way (@vocab)
Shane McCarron: And, FWIW, it was ALWAYS this way (@vocab) ←
14:57:08 <gkellogg> Without giving some guidance on /how/ to process @vocab, nothing will happen. We should have text indicating /what/ should be in the doc pointed to by @vocab with simple processing rules.
Gregg Kellogg: Without giving some guidance on /how/ to process @vocab, nothing will happen. We should have text indicating /what/ should be in the doc pointed to by @vocab with simple processing rules. ←
14:58:12 <gkellogg> A potential issue with multiple @vocab definitions is that each sub-graph needs to be processed using different rules.
Gregg Kellogg: A potential issue with multiple @vocab definitions is that each sub-graph needs to be processed using different rules. ←
14:59:27 <tomayac> manu1: we would have almost the same functionality covered by @profile and @vocab if we did 'may post-process' for both of them. We only need one solution. Both allow vocabulary mixing.
Manu Sporny: we would have almost the same functionality covered by @profile and @vocab if we did 'may post-process' for both of them. We only need one solution. Both allow vocabulary mixing. ←
14:59:40 <lindstream> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
15:00:15 <tomayac> shanem: you can declare prefix mappings, this wouldn't be possible in a post-process world
Shane McCarron: you can declare prefix mappings, this wouldn't be possible in a post-process world ←
15:00:15 <tomayac> manu1: That is true - we would have to ensure that @prefix allowed one to declare terms.
Manu Sporny: That is true - we would have to ensure that @prefix allowed one to declare terms. ←
15:01:19 <manu1> ack lindstream
Manu Sporny: ack lindstream ←
15:02:12 <manu1> PROPOSAL: Remove @profile feature from the RDFa Core specification with the caveat that the issue will be re-opened if ePub, OpenDoc, IPTC, or other communities have an issue with its removal.
PROPOSED: Remove @profile feature from the RDFa Core specification with the caveat that the issue will be re-opened if ePub, OpenDoc, IPTC, or other communities have an issue with its removal. ←
15:02:37 <Knud> +1
Knud Möller: +1 ←
15:02:39 <tomayac> +1
+1 ←
15:02:41 <manu1> +1
Manu Sporny: +1 ←
15:02:41 <lindstream> +1
Niklas Lindström: +1 ←
15:02:42 <gkellogg> +1
Gregg Kellogg: +1 ←
15:02:49 <MacTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
15:02:52 <scor> +1 for removal
Stéphane Corlosquet: +1 for removal ←
15:02:57 <bergie> +1
Henri Bergius: +1 ←
15:03:02 <ShaneM> +1
Shane McCarron: +1 ←
15:03:10 <manu1> RESOLVED: Remove @profile feature from the RDFa Core specification with the caveat that the issue will be re-opened if ePub, OpenDoc, IPTC, or other communities have an issue with its removal.
RESOLVED: Remove @profile feature from the RDFa Core specification with the caveat that the issue will be re-opened if ePub, OpenDoc, IPTC, or other communities have an issue with its removal. ←
15:03:23 <Zakim> -bergie
Zakim IRC Bot: -bergie ←
15:03:25 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
15:03:27 <Zakim> -gkellogg
Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg ←
15:03:28 <Zakim> -Knud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Knud ←
15:03:33 <Zakim> -tomayac
Zakim IRC Bot: -tomayac ←
15:03:37 <Zakim> -scor
Zakim IRC Bot: -scor ←
15:10:03 <tomayac> rrsagent, draft minutes
(No events recorded for 6 minutes)
rrsagent, draft minutes ←
15:10:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-rdfa-minutes.html tomayac
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-rdfa-minutes.html tomayac ←
15:11:14 <tomayac> zakim, bye
zakim, bye ←
15:11:14 <Zakim> leaving. As of this point the attendees were lindstream, manu1, gkellogg, MacTed, +1.781.866.aaaa, +3539149aabb, +358.405.25aacc, Knud, bergie, scor, tomayac, ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: leaving. As of this point the attendees were lindstream, manu1, gkellogg, MacTed, +1.781.866.aaaa, +3539149aabb, +358.405.25aacc, Knud, bergie, scor, tomayac, ShaneM ←
15:11:22 <tomayac> rrsagent, draft minutes
rrsagent, draft minutes ←
15:11:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-rdfa-minutes.html tomayac
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-rdfa-minutes.html tomayac ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2011-07-28 15:51:55 UTC by 'msporny', comments: 'Minor changes/fix-ups.'