IRC log of rif on 2010-02-09
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:00:47 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #rif
- 16:00:47 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/09-rif-irc
- 16:00:56 [ChrisW]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:00:56 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/09-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
- 16:01:41 [Zakim]
- +[IBM]
- 16:01:42 [ChrisW]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 16:01:48 [ChrisW]
- zakim, ibm is temporarily me
- 16:01:48 [Zakim]
- +ChrisW; got it
- 16:01:52 [DaveReynolds]
- DaveReynolds has joined #rif
- 16:01:56 [csma]
- csma has joined #rif
- 16:02:00 [Zakim]
- +[NRCC]
- 16:02:29 [Harold]
- zakim, [NRCC] is me.
- 16:02:29 [Zakim]
- +Harold; got it
- 16:02:38 [Zakim]
- +??P55
- 16:03:13 [ChrisW]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 16:03:13 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Mike_Dean, Sandro, ChrisW, Harold, DaveReynolds
- 16:03:18 [Gary_Hallmark]
- Gary_Hallmark has joined #rif
- 16:03:22 [csma]
- Trying to join
- 16:03:46 [ChrisW]
- Scribe: DaveReynolds
- 16:03:52 [ChrisW]
- scribenick: DaveReynolds
- 16:03:53 [Zakim]
- +LeoraMorgenstern
- 16:04:17 [Zakim]
- +Gary
- 16:04:42 [ChrisW]
- Last weeks minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Feb/att-0010/2010-02-02-rif-minutes.html
- 16:04:50 [ChrisW]
- PROPOSED: Approve last week's minutes
- 16:05:05 [ChrisW]
- RESOLVED: Approve last week's minutes
- 16:05:51 [Zakim]
- + +95356aaaa
- 16:06:06 [csma]
- zakim, aaaa is me
- 16:06:06 [Zakim]
- +csma; got it
- 16:06:58 [ChrisW]
- Meeting: RIF Telecon 9 Feb 2010
- 16:07:03 [ChrisW]
- Chair: Chris Welty
- 16:07:11 [ChrisW]
- Topic: 2cnd PRD LC
- 16:07:36 [DaveReynolds]
- csma: latest PRD draft added notion of compound action, introduces notion of simple action (atomic or compound)
- 16:07:55 [DaveReynolds]
- csma: retract can retract single fact, or whole object
- 16:08:19 [DaveReynolds]
- csma: added form to retract all values for an object on a given slot (also atomic)
- 16:09:10 [DaveReynolds]
- csma: compound is fixed sequence of atomic actions, single instance of this is modify, retract all values of slot in frame then assert new value
- 16:09:45 [DaveReynolds]
- csma: consequent editorial changes - replacing atomic action by simple action, changing examples etc
- 16:10:04 [AdrianP]
- AdrianP has joined #rif
- 16:10:06 [DaveReynolds]
- cmsa: second non-editorial change, new section 4.2.2, rules normalization
- 16:10:26 [ChrisW]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Feb/0019.html
- 16:10:53 [DaveReynolds]
- cmsa: avoid changing semantics by assuming rules normalized to remove disjunctive conditions by mapping to set of rules with same action part
- 16:11:00 [ChrisW]
- Regrets: MichaelKifer
- 16:11:18 [DaveReynolds]
- s/cmsa/csma/
- 16:11:21 [Zakim]
- +??P30
- 16:11:33 [AdrianP]
- Zakim, ??P30 is me
- 16:11:33 [Zakim]
- +AdrianP; got it
- 16:11:38 [DaveReynolds]
- csma: also normalize by replacing compound actions by their atomic actions
- 16:11:40 [ChrisW]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 16:11:40 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Mike_Dean, Sandro, ChrisW, Harold, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, Gary, csma, AdrianP
- 16:12:11 [DaveReynolds]
- csma: last change, introduce notion of intermediate state of the transition system
- 16:12:44 [DaveReynolds]
- csma: cycle states are the state after an action block has been executed, transitional state is state after each atomic action has been performed
- 16:12:51 [Harold]
- RE: Definition (Production rule system state).
- 16:13:08 [Harold]
- "... is either a system cycle states or a system transitional states. "?
- 16:13:22 [DaveReynolds]
- csma: changed concept resolution to apply in each transitional state, previously only applied to what is now called the cycle states
- 16:13:37 [Harold]
- (http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/draft/rif-prd/#Definitions_and_notational_conventions)
- 16:13:44 [DaveReynolds]
- csma: this is a substantial change to the semantics
- 16:13:54 [sandro]
- queue yourself to ask that, Harold?
- 16:14:47 [DaveReynolds]
- csma: Also clarified use of xml:base (section 8.2) as discussed and resolved at last telecon, allow relative IRIs in RIF XML syntax anywhere IRIs are allowed
- 16:15:04 [ChrisW]
- q?
- 16:15:23 [Harold]
- RE: 8.2 xml:base
- 16:15:39 [Harold]
- "... including constant type, symbol spaces, location, and profile."?
- 16:15:46 [Harold]
- constant types
- 16:16:06 [Harold]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/draft/rif-prd/#xml:base
- 16:16:07 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- q+
- 16:16:47 [DaveReynolds]
- Harold: typos in draft noted via IRC
- 16:17:13 [DaveReynolds]
- Leora: modify is now a compound act?
- 16:18:26 [AdrianP]
- before we had it as a "true" modify, where the implicit retract does not fire negated rules
- 16:18:28 [DaveReynolds]
- csma: yes, previously an atomic action now equivalent to a sequence, relevant due to the transitional states affecting refraction
- 16:18:43 [Harold]
- q+
- 16:19:07 [csma]
- ack leora
- 16:19:13 [ChrisW]
- ack harold
- 16:19:24 [DaveReynolds]
- csma: the absence of an atomic modify is a problem for some systems such as jRules, will have to change implementation substantially
- 16:20:04 [DaveReynolds]
- Harold: many people would distinguish simple v. compound, nomenclature is potentially confusing
- 16:20:35 [DaveReynolds]
- csma: would prefer better wording but this choice meant least changes to text
- 16:20:39 [Gary]
- q+
- 16:21:05 [DaveReynolds]
- csma: simple actions are simple in terms of syntax, though can represent and implicit sequence, whereas an action block is an explicit sequence
- 16:21:12 [DaveReynolds]
- s/and/an/
- 16:21:14 [ChrisW]
- ack Gary
- 16:21:22 [DaveReynolds]
- Gary: could say "action" rather than "simple action"
- 16:21:35 [DaveReynolds]
- csma: OK
- 16:22:04 [DaveReynolds]
- Chris: has there been a review other than from Gary?
- 16:22:08 [DaveReynolds]
- csma: no
- 16:22:57 [DaveReynolds]
- action: Adrian to review changes to PRD spec by Thursday
- 16:22:57 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-978 - Review changes to PRD spec by Thursday [on Adrian Paschke - due 2010-02-16].
- 16:23:54 [ChrisW]
- action: adrian to review PRD draft by noon (europe) thursday
- 16:23:55 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-979 - Review PRD draft by noon (europe) thursday [on Adrian Paschke - due 2010-02-16].
- 16:25:39 [sandro]
- PROPOSED: Publish the new draft of PRD as a Last Call WD, after csma changes simple actions to actions, corrects a few typos, and pending Adrian's positive review by 6am ET Thursday.
- 16:25:50 [Harold]
- +1 (NRC)
- 16:26:02 [Gary]
- +1 Oracle
- 16:26:10 [DaveReynolds]
- +1
- 16:26:15 [Zakim]
- -Harold
- 16:26:16 [mdean]
- +1
- 16:26:21 [sandro]
- PROPOSED: Publish the new draft of PRD as a Last Call WD, after csma changes simple actions to actions, corrects a few typos, and pending Adrian's positive review by 6am ET Thursday. (Others are also free to object by that time, as well.)
- 16:26:26 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- +1 (self)
- 16:26:34 [sandro]
- last call period to be minimum, 21 days.,
- 16:26:39 [sandro]
- +1
- 16:26:42 [csma]
- +1 (IBM)
- 16:27:16 [ChrisW]
- +1
- 16:27:28 [ChrisW]
- zakim, who is here?
- 16:27:28 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Mike_Dean, Sandro, ChrisW, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, Gary, csma, AdrianP
- 16:27:30 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see AdrianP, Gary, csma, DaveReynolds, RRSAgent, LeoraMorgenstern, sandro, mdean, ChrisW, AxelPolleres, trackbot, Harold, Zakim
- 16:27:34 [AdrianP]
- +1 (self)
- 16:27:44 [mdean]
- +1
- 16:28:31 [ChrisW]
- TOPIC: use Case modify/noloop
- 16:28:32 [DaveReynolds]
- RESOLVED: Publish the new draft of PRD as a Last Call WD, after csma changes simple actions to actions, corrects a few typos, and pending Adrian's positive review by 6am ET Thursday. (Others are also free to object by that time, as well.)
- 16:28:46 [ChrisW]
- s/use/test/
- 16:29:07 [DaveReynolds]
- Chris: simply remove test case?
- 16:29:32 [DaveReynolds]
- csma: yes, will also add new test cases in parallel with last call, being discussed in PRD task force
- 16:29:49 [ChrisW]
- PROPOSED: remove http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Modify_noloop
- 16:29:58 [Gary]
- +1
- 16:29:59 [ChrisW]
- +1
- 16:30:00 [DaveReynolds]
- +1
- 16:30:10 [mdean]
- +1
- 16:30:19 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- +1
- 16:30:23 [ChrisW]
- RESOLVED: remove http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Modify_noloop
- 16:30:47 [ChrisW]
- action: leora to ask stella to remove modify_noloop
- 16:30:47 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-980 - Ask stella to remove modify_noloop [on Leora Morgenstern - due 2010-02-16].
- 16:30:56 [ChrisW]
- TOPIC: AOB
- 16:31:11 [ChrisW]
- zakim, list attendees
- 16:31:11 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been Mike_Dean, Sandro, ChrisW, Harold, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, Gary, +95356aaaa, csma, AdrianP
- 16:31:13 [Zakim]
- -Gary
- 16:31:15 [Zakim]
- -LeoraMorgenstern
- 16:31:21 [Zakim]
- -Mike_Dean
- 16:31:22 [Zakim]
- -AdrianP
- 16:31:22 [ChrisW]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:31:22 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/09-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
- 16:31:51 [ChrisW]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 16:31:51 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Sandro, ChrisW, DaveReynolds, csma
- 16:31:56 [Zakim]
- -DaveReynolds
- 16:45:58 [Zakim]
- + +5875aabb
- 16:46:10 [Zakim]
- -csma
- 16:46:24 [csma]
- zakim, aabb is me
- 16:46:24 [Zakim]
- +csma; got it
- 16:57:41 [csma]
- http://www.systap.com/bigdata.htm
- 17:17:52 [sandro]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/draft/rif-prd/
- 17:23:52 [Zakim]
- -ChrisW
- 17:23:58 [Zakim]
- -Sandro
- 17:24:03 [Zakim]
- -csma
- 17:24:04 [Zakim]
- SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
- 17:24:08 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Mike_Dean, Sandro, ChrisW, Harold, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, Gary, +95356aaaa, csma, AdrianP, +5875aabb
- 17:34:40 [ChrisW]
- ChrisW has joined #rif
- 18:41:43 [AxelPolleres]
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