16:00:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rif
16:00:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/09-rif-irc
16:00:56 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:00:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/09-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:01:41 <Zakim> +[IBM]
16:01:42 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make logs public
16:01:48 <ChrisW> zakim, ibm is temporarily me
16:01:48 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
16:01:52 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has joined #rif
16:01:56 <csma> csma has joined #rif
16:02:00 <Zakim> +[NRCC]
16:02:29 <Harold> zakim, [NRCC] is me.
16:02:29 <Zakim> +Harold; got it
16:02:38 <Zakim> +??P55
16:03:13 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see Mike_Dean, Sandro, ChrisW, Harold, DaveReynolds
16:03:18 <Gary_Hallmark> Gary_Hallmark has joined #rif
16:03:22 <csma> Trying to join
16:03:46 <ChrisW> Scribe: DaveReynolds
16:03:52 <ChrisW> scribenick: DaveReynolds
16:03:53 <Zakim> +LeoraMorgenstern
16:04:17 <Zakim> +Gary
16:04:42 <ChrisW> Last weeks minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Feb/att-0010/2010-02-02-rif-minutes.html
16:04:50 <ChrisW> PROPOSED: Approve last week's minutes
16:05:05 <ChrisW> RESOLVED: Approve last week's minutes
16:05:51 <Zakim> + +95356aaaa
16:06:06 <csma> zakim, aaaa is me
16:06:06 <Zakim> +csma; got it
16:06:58 <ChrisW> Meeting: RIF Telecon 9 Feb 2010
16:07:03 <ChrisW> Chair: Chris Welty
16:07:11 <ChrisW> Topic: 2cnd PRD LC
16:07:36 <DaveReynolds> csma: latest PRD draft added notion of compound action, introduces notion of simple action (atomic or compound)
16:07:55 <DaveReynolds> csma: retract can retract single fact, or whole object
16:08:19 <DaveReynolds> csma: added form to retract all values for an object on a given slot (also atomic)
16:09:10 <DaveReynolds> csma: compound is fixed sequence of atomic actions, single instance of this is modify, retract all values of slot in frame then assert new value
16:09:45 <DaveReynolds> csma: consequent editorial changes - replacing atomic action by simple action, changing examples etc
16:10:04 <AdrianP> AdrianP has joined #rif
16:10:06 <DaveReynolds> cmsa: second non-editorial change, new section 4.2.2, rules normalization
16:10:26 <ChrisW> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Feb/0019.html
16:10:53 <DaveReynolds> cmsa: avoid changing semantics by assuming rules normalized to remove disjunctive conditions by mapping to set of rules with same action part
16:11:00 <ChrisW> Regrets: MichaelKifer
16:11:18 <DaveReynolds> s/cmsa/csma/
16:11:21 <Zakim> +??P30
16:11:33 <AdrianP> Zakim, ??P30 is me
16:11:33 <Zakim> +AdrianP; got it
16:11:38 <DaveReynolds> csma: also normalize by replacing compound actions by their atomic actions
16:11:40 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:11:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see Mike_Dean, Sandro, ChrisW, Harold, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, Gary, csma, AdrianP
16:12:11 <DaveReynolds> csma: last change, introduce notion of intermediate state of the transition system
16:12:44 <DaveReynolds> csma: cycle states are the state after an action block has been executed, transitional state is state after each atomic action has been performed
16:12:51 <Harold> RE: Definition (Production rule system state). 
16:13:08 <Harold> "... is either a system cycle states or a system transitional states. "?
16:13:22 <DaveReynolds> csma: changed concept resolution to apply in each transitional state, previously only applied to what is now called the cycle states
16:13:37 <Harold> (http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/draft/rif-prd/#Definitions_and_notational_conventions)
16:13:44 <DaveReynolds> csma: this is a substantial change to the semantics
16:13:54 <sandro> queue yourself to ask that, Harold?
16:14:47 <DaveReynolds> csma: Also clarified use of xml:base (section 8.2) as discussed and resolved at last telecon, allow relative IRIs in RIF XML syntax anywhere IRIs are allowed
16:15:04 <ChrisW> q?
16:15:23 <Harold> RE: 8.2 xml:base
16:15:39 <Harold> "... including constant type, symbol spaces, location, and profile."?
16:15:46 <Harold> constant types
16:16:06 <Harold> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/draft/rif-prd/#xml:base
16:16:07 <LeoraMorgenstern> q+
16:16:47 <DaveReynolds> Harold: typos in draft noted via IRC
16:17:13 <DaveReynolds> Leora: modify is now a compound act?
16:18:26 <AdrianP> before we had it as a "true" modify, where the implicit retract does not fire negated rules
16:18:28 <DaveReynolds> csma: yes, previously an atomic action now equivalent to a sequence, relevant due to the transitional states affecting refraction
16:18:43 <Harold> q+
16:19:07 <csma> ack leora
16:19:13 <ChrisW> ack harold
16:19:24 <DaveReynolds> csma: the absence of an atomic modify is a problem for some systems such as jRules, will have to change implementation substantially
16:20:04 <DaveReynolds> Harold: many people would distinguish simple v. compound, nomenclature is potentially confusing
16:20:35 <DaveReynolds> csma: would prefer better wording but this choice meant least changes to text
16:20:39 <Gary> q+
16:21:05 <DaveReynolds> csma: simple actions are simple in terms of syntax, though can represent and implicit sequence, whereas an action block is an explicit sequence
16:21:12 <DaveReynolds> s/and/an/
16:21:14 <ChrisW> ack Gary
16:21:22 <DaveReynolds> Gary: could say "action" rather than "simple action"
16:21:35 <DaveReynolds> csma: OK
16:22:04 <DaveReynolds> Chris: has there been a review other than from Gary?
16:22:08 <DaveReynolds> csma: no
16:22:57 <DaveReynolds> action: Adrian to review changes to PRD spec by Thursday
16:22:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-978 - Review changes to PRD spec by Thursday [on Adrian Paschke - due 2010-02-16].
16:23:54 <ChrisW> action: adrian to review PRD draft by noon (europe) thursday
16:23:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-979 - Review PRD draft by noon (europe) thursday [on Adrian Paschke - due 2010-02-16].
16:25:39 <sandro> PROPOSED: Publish the new draft of PRD as a Last Call WD, after csma changes simple actions to actions, corrects a few typos, and pending Adrian's positive review by 6am ET Thursday.
16:25:50 <Harold> +1 (NRC)
16:26:02 <Gary> +1 Oracle
16:26:10 <DaveReynolds> +1
16:26:15 <Zakim> -Harold
16:26:16 <mdean> +1
16:26:21 <sandro> PROPOSED: Publish the new draft of PRD as a Last Call WD, after csma changes simple actions to actions, corrects a few typos, and pending Adrian's positive review by 6am ET Thursday.  (Others are also free to object by that time, as well.)
16:26:26 <LeoraMorgenstern> +1 (self)
16:26:34 <sandro> last call period to be minimum, 21 days.,
16:26:39 <sandro> +1 
16:26:42 <csma> +1 (IBM)
16:27:16 <ChrisW> +1
16:27:28 <ChrisW> zakim, who is here?
16:27:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see Mike_Dean, Sandro, ChrisW, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, Gary, csma, AdrianP
16:27:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see AdrianP, Gary, csma, DaveReynolds, RRSAgent, LeoraMorgenstern, sandro, mdean, ChrisW, AxelPolleres, trackbot, Harold, Zakim
16:27:34 <AdrianP> +1 (self)
16:27:44 <mdean> +1
16:28:31 <ChrisW> TOPIC: use Case modify/noloop
16:28:32 <DaveReynolds> RESOLVED: Publish the new draft of PRD as a Last Call WD, after csma changes simple actions to actions, corrects a few typos, and pending Adrian's positive review by 6am ET Thursday. (Others are also free to object by that time, as well.)
16:28:46 <ChrisW> s/use/test/
16:29:07 <DaveReynolds> Chris: simply remove test case?
16:29:32 <DaveReynolds> csma: yes, will also add new test cases in parallel with last call, being discussed in PRD task force
16:29:49 <ChrisW> PROPOSED: remove http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Modify_noloop
16:29:58 <Gary> +1
16:29:59 <ChrisW> +1
16:30:00 <DaveReynolds> +1
16:30:10 <mdean> +1
16:30:19 <LeoraMorgenstern> +1
16:30:23 <ChrisW> RESOLVED: remove http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Modify_noloop
16:30:47 <ChrisW> action: leora to ask stella to remove modify_noloop
16:30:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-980 - Ask stella to remove modify_noloop [on Leora Morgenstern - due 2010-02-16].
16:30:56 <ChrisW> TOPIC: AOB
16:31:11 <ChrisW> zakim, list attendees
16:31:11 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Mike_Dean, Sandro, ChrisW, Harold, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, Gary, +95356aaaa, csma, AdrianP
16:31:13 <Zakim> -Gary
16:31:15 <Zakim> -LeoraMorgenstern
16:31:21 <Zakim> -Mike_Dean
16:31:22 <Zakim> -AdrianP
16:31:22 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:31:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/09-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:31:51 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:31:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, ChrisW, DaveReynolds, csma
16:31:56 <Zakim> -DaveReynolds
16:45:58 <Zakim> + +5875aabb
16:46:10 <Zakim> -csma
16:46:24 <csma> zakim, aabb is me
16:46:24 <Zakim> +csma; got it
16:57:41 <csma> http://www.systap.com/bigdata.htm
17:17:52 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/draft/rif-prd/
17:23:52 <Zakim> -ChrisW
17:23:58 <Zakim> -Sandro
17:24:03 <Zakim> -csma
17:24:04 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
17:24:08 <Zakim> Attendees were Mike_Dean, Sandro, ChrisW, Harold, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, Gary, +95356aaaa, csma, AdrianP, +5875aabb
17:34:40 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #rif
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