IRC log of ua on 2010-02-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:43:59 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-ua-irc

17:44:01 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

17:44:01 [Zakim]

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17:44:03 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG

17:44:03 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 16 minutes

17:44:04 [trackbot]

Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

17:44:04 [trackbot]

Date: 04 February 2010

17:44:30 [AllanJ]

Chair: Jim_allan, Kelly_Ford

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17:58:40 [jeanne]

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17:58:59 [Zakim]

WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started

17:59:06 [Zakim]

+allanj

17:59:11 [jeanne]

zakim, code?

17:59:11 [Zakim]

the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jeanne

17:59:22 [Zakim]

+Jeanne

17:59:38 [Zakim]

+[Microsoft]

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+Bim

18:01:22 [Zakim]

+??P10

18:01:54 [Greg]

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+Greg

18:03:44 [AllanJ]

zakim, P10 is really PHLauke

18:03:44 [Zakim]

sorry, AllanJ, I do not recognize a party named 'P10'

18:03:47 [Zakim]

+??P12

18:03:49 [sharper]

zakim, ??P12 is sharper

18:03:49 [Zakim]

+sharper; got it

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+ +1.617.435.aaaa

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18:04:39 [Kim]

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18:05:07 [AllanJ]

zakim, aaaa is really Kim

18:05:07 [Zakim]

+Kim; got it

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18:06:48 [AllanJ]

Agenda+ Review Action Items - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open

18:06:49 [AllanJ]

Agenda+ F2F - 2/24-26 - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100119/

18:06:51 [AllanJ]

Agenda+ 3.1 & 4.9 brainstorming

18:07:45 [Zakim]

+Markku_Hakkinen

18:08:04 [AllanJ]

zakim, take up item 1

18:08:04 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Review Action Items - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open" taken up [from AllanJ]

18:14:29 [Zakim]

-Greg

18:15:34 [Zakim]

+Greg

18:23:51 [Greg]

Zakim, next item

18:23:51 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "F2F - 2/24-26 - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100119/" taken up [from AllanJ]

18:25:38 [Greg]

So far Jim, Greg, Jeanne, and Kelly have signed up to attend in person.

18:26:02 [Greg]

So far, Patrick is signed up to attend remotely.

18:27:10 [jeanne]

action: JS to set up a conference bridge for F2F for 3

18:27:10 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-276 - Set up a conference bridge for F2F for 3 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-02-11].

18:31:57 [Greg]

Jim will look into arranging a get together with other accessibility people in the Austin area, perhaps on Thursday evening.

18:33:22 [Greg]

Zakim, next item.

18:33:22 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "3.1 & 4.9 brainstorming" taken up [from AllanJ]

18:37:50 [Greg]

Patrick gave an overview of the proposed changes to 3.1.1 - 3.1.5 that he sent in email.

18:37:54 [kford]

On first read this sounds pretty good to me.

18:43:13 [Greg]

Greg suggested removing the bit about mechanism to display alternative content from the example of discoverability, as it's more appropriate to 3.1.3.

18:44:07 [Greg]

Discussion of pros and cons of terms "notification" vs. "discoverability".

18:45:36 [Greg]

How about "Indicating Available Alternative Content"?

18:46:21 [kford]

q+

18:46:55 [Greg]

q+

18:48:25 [kford]

/me are we using the queue at all?

18:49:38 [patrickhlauke]

oops soz

18:50:06 [AllanJ]

ack kford

18:51:00 [Greg]

Kelly queries whether we should explicitly say "visual or audible" queues, or leave it more general.

18:51:15 [AllanJ]

+1

18:51:56 [AllanJ]

+1 to putting the information (visual, etc) in the techniques

18:53:38 [AllanJ]

ack greg

18:54:23 [AllanJ]

+ 1 'indicating' or 'indicate'

18:55:30 [Greg]

Agreed to title like "Indicate available alternative content".

18:56:04 [patrickhlauke]

3.1.1 Indicate Alternative Content: Provide a global option for the user to receive cues in the presence of alternatives to rendered content (e.g. visual icons rendered in proximity of content which has short text alternatives, long descriptions, captions).

18:57:05 [kford]

Good here.

18:57:25 [jeanne]

action: JS to update document with new 3.1.1

18:57:25 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-277 - Update document with new 3.1.1 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-02-11].

18:58:56 [kford]

3.1.2 good here too.

18:59:32 [Greg]

Agreed on Patrick's proposed version of 3.1.2 Configurable Default Rendering: Provide the user with the global

18:59:33 [Greg]

option to set which type of alternative to render by default and, in cases where the alternative content has different dimensions than the original content, how the layout/reflow of the document should be handled. (Level A)

18:59:39 [jeanne]

action: JS to update document with new 3.1.2

18:59:39 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-278 - Update document with new 3.1.2 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-02-11].

19:04:16 [AllanJ]

GL: what is difference between 3.1.2 and 3.1.3

19:05:03 [AllanJ]

... one is about defaults globally, one is about overiding default rendering on case by case basis

19:06:43 [patrickhlauke]

how about:

19:06:46 [patrickhlauke]

3.1.3 Browse and Render: The user can browse the alternatives, switch between them, and render them according to the following (Level A):

19:08:25 [Greg]

Re 3.1.3, Jim discussed the concept of an alternatives stack, meaning that there can be several alternatives for a given piece of content, and notes that original image becomes alternative content to the alt text when the latter is displayed.

19:13:13 [AllanJ]

3.1.3 Browse and Render: The user can browse the alternatives, switch between them, and render them according to the following (Level A):

19:13:14 [AllanJ]

(a) synchronized alternatives for time-based media (e.g., captions, audio descriptions, sign language) can be rendered at the same time as their associated audio tracks and visual tracks, and

19:13:16 [AllanJ]

(b) non-synchronized alternatives (e.g., short text alternatives, long

19:13:17 [AllanJ]

descriptions) can be rendered as replacements for the original rendered content.

19:15:58 [jeanne]

action: JS to update document with revised 3.1.3

19:15:58 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-279 - Update document with revised 3.1.3 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-02-11].

19:16:50 [AllanJ]

Include "If the new item has different dimensions, then a user option controls whether the dimensions of the original content are used ***(including an indication of, and accessible scrolling or expansion mechanism for, alternative content in cases where the alternatives exceed these original dimensions) *** or the dimensions of the new content, which will cause the document to reflow...

19:16:52 [AllanJ]

...accordingly."

19:22:28 [Greg]

Re 3.1.4, suggest we replace it with a Note referring the reader to 2.1.2, in the section on programmatic access, which could be modified to more explicitly include alternative content. For example: 2.1.2 Name, Role, State, Value, Description: For all user interface components including the user interface, rendered content, and alternative content, make available the name, role, state,...

19:22:30 [Greg]

...value, and description via an platform accessibility architecture. (Level A)

19:22:56 [AllanJ]

action: Jallan to write flash or canvas fallback content use case for intent for GL3

19:22:56 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-280 - Write flash or canvas fallback content use case for intent for GL3 [on Jim Allan - due 2010-02-11].

19:23:09 [Greg]

(The only change in that version is replacing "user interface and rendered content" with "user interface, rendered content, and alternative content.")

19:23:19 [patrickhlauke]

+1

19:24:15 [AllanJ]

new 2.1.2 language: 2.1.2 Name, Role, State, Value, Description: For all user interface components including the user interface, rendered content, and alternative content, make available the name, role, state,...

19:24:17 [AllanJ]

...value, and description via an platform accessibility architecture. (Level A)

19:24:36 [jeanne]

action: JS to update the document with new language for 2.1.1, remove 3.1.4 and refer it to 2.1.1

19:24:36 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-281 - Update the document with new language for 2.1.1, remove 3.1.4 and refer it to 2.1.1 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-02-11].

19:33:23 [Greg]

Suggested combining 3.1.5 into 3.1.2 by replacing "type of alternative" with "types of alternatives".

19:34:02 [AllanJ]

action: jallan create a list of alternatives available for content for inclusion in the techniques

19:34:02 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-282 - Create a list of alternatives available for content for inclusion in the techniques [on Jim Allan - due 2010-02-11].

19:34:03 [Greg]

We do need to examine whether current user agents support 3.1.2 as written (singular) and as proposed (plural).

19:36:22 [AllanJ]

3.1.2 Configurable Default Rendering: Provide the user with the global option to set which types of alternative to render by default and, in cases where the alternative content has different dimensions than the original content, how the layout/reflow of the document should be handled. (Level A)

19:36:40 [Zakim]

-sharper

19:37:13 [AllanJ]

make the simultaneous rendering an AA or AAA and model on current 3.1.5

19:37:30 [Greg]

Patrick is in favor of having 3.1.2 requiring display of one alternative at Level A and separately 3.1.5 recommending allowing display of multiple alternatives at Level AA.

19:39:27 [Zakim]

-Markku_Hakkinen

19:39:32 [mhakkinen]

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19:39:41 [Zakim]

-[Microsoft]

19:39:43 [Zakim]

-Kim

19:39:43 [Zakim]

-??P10

19:39:45 [Zakim]

-Bim

19:39:48 [Zakim]

-Jeanne

19:39:49 [Greg]

Patrick will continue discussion of 3.1 offline.

19:40:04 [patrickhlauke]

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19:40:56 [Greg]

rsagent, create minutes

19:41:08 [Greg]

rrsagent, create minutes

19:41:08 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-ua-minutes.html Greg

19:41:21 [Greg]

zakim, please part

19:41:21 [Zakim]

leaving. As of this point the attendees were allanj, Jeanne, [Microsoft], Bim, Greg, sharper, +1.617.435.aaaa, Kim, Markku_Hakkinen

19:41:21 [Zakim]

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19:41:46 [Greg]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

19:41:46 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-ua-minutes.html Greg

19:41:57 [Greg]

rrsagent, please part

19:41:57 [RRSAgent]

I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-ua-actions.rdf :

19:41:57 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JS to set up a conference bridge for F2F for 3 [1]

19:41:57 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-ua-irc#T18-27-10

19:41:57 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JS to update document with new 3.1.1 [2]

19:41:57 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-ua-irc#T18-57-25

19:41:57 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JS to update document with new 3.1.2 [3]

19:41:57 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-ua-irc#T18-59-39

19:41:57 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JS to update document with revised 3.1.3 [4]

19:41:57 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-ua-irc#T19-15-58

19:41:57 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jallan to write flash or canvas fallback content use case for intent for GL3 [5]

19:41:57 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-ua-irc#T19-22-56

19:41:57 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JS to update the document with new language for 2.1.1, remove 3.1.4 and refer it to 2.1.1 [6]

19:41:57 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-ua-irc#T19-24-36

19:41:57 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: jallan create a list of alternatives available for content for inclusion in the techniques [7]

19:41:57 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-ua-irc#T19-34-02