IRC log of sparql on 2010-01-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:57:46 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #sparql
14:57:46 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/01/12-sparql-irc
14:57:54 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #sparql
14:58:07 [AxelPolleres]: trackbot, start meeting
14:58:10 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
14:58:12 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be 77277
14:58:12 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:58:13 [trackbot]: Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:58:13 [trackbot]: Date: 12 January 2010
14:59:19 [AxelPolleres]: Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:59:19 [Zakim]: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has not yet started, AxelPolleres
14:59:21 [Zakim]: On IRC I see RRSAgent, AxelPolleres, bglimm, OlivierCorby, LukeWM, LeeF, AndyS, dcharbon2, iv_an_ru, AlexPassant, karl, pgearon, kasei, trackbot, sandro
15:00:00 [AndyS]: zakim, this will be sparql
15:00:05 [Zakim]: ok, AndyS, I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM already started
15:00:11 [Zakim]: +Souri
15:00:13 [Zakim]: +??P2
15:00:14 [AndyS]: zakim, who is on the phone
15:00:21 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'who is on the phone', AndyS
15:00:41 [AndyS]: zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:41 [Zakim]: +kasei
15:00:41 [AxelPolleres]: Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:43 [Zakim]: +bglimm
15:00:44 [bglimm]: Zakim, mute me
15:00:45 [Zakim]: On the phone I see OlivierCorby, AxelPolleres, dcharbon2, ??P17, Souri, ??P2, kasei, bglimm
15:00:50 [Zakim]: On the phone I see OlivierCorby, AxelPolleres, dcharbon2, ??P17, Souri, ??P2, kasei, bglimm
15:00:51 [Zakim]: bglimm should now be muted
15:00:52 [LukeWM]: zakim, ??P2 is LukeWM
15:00:55 [AndyS]: zakim, ??P17 is me
15:01:01 [Zakim]: +pgearon
15:01:05 [dcharbon2]: zakim, mute me
15:01:07 [Zakim]: +LukeWM; got it
15:01:13 [Zakim]: +AndyS; got it
15:01:21 [Zakim]: dcharbon2 should now be muted
15:01:30 [ivan]: ivan has joined #sparql
15:01:42 [AxelPolleres]: Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:47 [Zakim]: On the phone I see OlivierCorby, AxelPolleres, dcharbon2 (muted), AndyS, Souri, LukeWM, kasei, bglimm (muted), pgearon
15:02:36 [Souri]: Souri has joined #sparql
15:02:37 [LeeF]: Regrets+ LeeF
15:02:56 [ivan]: zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:02:59 [Zakim]: ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:03:01 [Zakim]: +Ivan
15:03:05 [LeeF]: I support publication of all of our documents as Working Drafts, as long as editors are happy with them.
15:03:27 [AxelPolleres]: Zakim, mut ivan
15:03:27 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'mut ivan', AxelPolleres
15:03:36 [AxelPolleres]: Zakim, mute ivan
15:03:39 [Zakim]: Ivan should now be muted
15:03:41 [ivan]: is it better now?
15:03:56 [AxelPolleres]: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-01-12
15:04:20 [dcharbon2]: Scribe: dcharbon2
15:04:46 [AxelPolleres]: PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-01-05
15:05:00 [AxelPolleres]: RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-01-05
15:05:22 [AxelPolleres]: Next meeting: 2010-01-19 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST
15:05:27 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: should be 19th, not 17th for meeting
15:05:45 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Should have comments handling in the end, anything to report from liasons?
15:05:46 [AxelPolleres]: topic: liaisons
15:05:59 [AxelPolleres]: nothing to report, it seems
15:06:08 [chimezie]: chimezie has joined #sparql
15:06:13 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: move to document reviews, sparql queries
15:06:16 [chimezie]: Zakim, passcode?
15:06:24 [bglimm]: yes
15:06:27 [Zakim]: the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), chimezie
15:06:27 [chimezie]: Zakim, what is the passcode?
15:06:39 [Zakim]: the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), chimezie
15:06:50 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: have comments been addressed in queries?
15:07:01 [dcharbon2]: zakim, who is talking?
15:07:09 [Zakim]: +??P3
15:07:11 [AlexPassant]: Zakim, ?P3 is me
15:07:14 [AlexPassant]: Zakim, ??P3 is me
15:07:18 [Zakim]: sorry, AlexPassant, I do not recognize a party named '?P3'
15:07:19 [Zakim]: dcharbon2, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AxelPolleres (4%), AndyS (35%), Souri (49%)
15:07:24 [Zakim]: +AlexPassant; got it
15:07:31 [dcharbon2]: Souri: yes, my comments have been addressed
15:07:36 [Zakim]: + +1.216.636.aaaa
15:07:39 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: any other comments?
15:07:54 [chimezie]: Zakim, +1.216.636.aaaa is me
15:07:54 [Zakim]: +chimezie; got it
15:07:56 [Zakim]: +??P6
15:08:00 [AxelPolleres]: PROPOSED: publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/rq25.xml as new version of http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/
15:08:02 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Andy, any more comments?
15:08:11 [dcharbon2]: AndyS: I think I've processed everything
15:08:11 [ivan]: yes
15:08:26 [dcharbon2]: +1
15:08:26 [chimezie]: Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:08:26 [Zakim]: On the phone I see OlivierCorby, AxelPolleres, dcharbon2 (muted), AndyS, Souri, LukeWM, kasei, bglimm (muted), pgearon, Ivan (muted), AlexPassant, chimezie, ??P6
15:08:34 [ivan]: +1 (W3C)
15:08:35 [kasei]: +1 (RPI)
15:08:38 [bglimm]: +1 (Oxford)
15:08:39 [dcharbon2]: +1 (IBM)
15:08:40 [chimezie]: +1 (CCF)
15:08:41 [AlexPassant]: +1 (DERI, NUIG)
15:08:42 [AndyS]: +1 (Talis)
15:08:46 [OlivierCorby]: +1
15:08:47 [Souri]: +1 (Oracle)
15:08:56 [LukeWM]: +1 (Garlik) - on Steve's behalf
15:09:09 [AxelPolleres]: RESOLVED: publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/rq25.xml as new version of http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/
15:09:18 [Souri]: +1 (Oracle) - on Matt's behalf
15:09:28 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Next one is services description document
15:09:55 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Does Alex or other reviewers have more comments?
15:10:12 [dcharbon2]: AlexPassant: I am ok with the comments and changes
15:10:29 [AxelPolleres]: PROPOSED: publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/service-description-1.1/ as new version of http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-service-description/
15:10:33 [Zakim]: +??P37
15:10:36 [ivan]: +1 (W3C)
15:10:37 [AlexPassant]: +1 (DERI, NUIG)
15:10:38 [kasei]: +1 (RPI)
15:10:39 [AndyS]: +1 (Talis)
15:10:44 [bglimm]: +1 (Oxford)
15:10:44 [dcharbon2]: +1 (IBM)
15:10:46 [OlivierCorby]: +1
15:10:50 [ivan]: zakim, P37 is Orri
15:10:50 [Zakim]: sorry, ivan, I do not recognize a party named 'P37'
15:11:02 [ivan]: zakim, ?P37 is Orri
15:11:02 [Zakim]: sorry, ivan, I do not recognize a party named '?P37'
15:11:06 [Souri]: 0
15:11:13 [Souri]: 0
15:11:19 [ivan]: zakim, ??P37 is Orri
15:11:19 [Zakim]: +Orri; got it
15:11:27 [AxelPolleres]: +1 (on behalf of OpenLink, Orri)
15:11:43 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Why does Souri abstain?
15:12:02 [ivan]: no
15:12:03 [dcharbon2]: Souri: I didn't get to read it fully, so I am not sure.
15:12:05 [ivan]: fair enough
15:12:19 [ivan]: important is that there is no objection
15:12:22 [AxelPolleres]: RESOLVED: publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/service-description-1.1/ as new version of http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-service-description/
15:12:28 [pgearon]: I have not had a chance to read either document either, so am also unsure
15:12:33 [pgearon]: but am happy to publish
15:12:41 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: next up is update document, where there was still some ongoing discussion
15:13:29 [dcharbon2]: pgearon: Yes, there was still discussion around delete and such
15:13:55 [dcharbon2]: pgearon: Outstanding issues are ok where they are, was more concerned with things getting resolved
15:14:02 [LukeWM]: I haven't read the document thoroughly either, but I'm not going to object.
15:14:05 [dcharbon2]: pgearon: Still some syntax issues, like delete shortcut
15:14:07 [Prateek]: Prateek has joined #sparql
15:14:17 [dcharbon2]: pgearon: Some ambiguities still under discussion
15:14:34 [Zakim]: +Satya
15:14:35 [dcharbon2]: pgearon: would like to see a resolution of some of these discussions before going to publish
15:14:43 [Prateek]: Zakim,Satya is Prateek
15:14:43 [Zakim]: +Prateek; got it
15:14:58 [LeeF]: The latest ambiguity that Andy highlighted scared me a lot! (similar-looking DELETE and DELETE DATA doing different things)
15:15:11 [Souri]: zakim, who's on the phone
15:15:11 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'who's on the phone', Souri
15:15:27 [dcharbon2]: pgearon: Liked latest discussion around Delete
15:15:37 [dcharbon2]: pgearon: would prefer some of what has been discussed
15:16:07 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: wanted to make sure that the list and document were representative
15:16:47 [dcharbon2]: pgearon: still of two minds on how to resolve the issue, whether to take discussion into document or go forward with what is in place now
15:17:03 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: should we come back to this next week? Would that be better?
15:17:20 [Souri]: Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:17:20 [Zakim]: On the phone I see OlivierCorby, AxelPolleres, dcharbon2 (muted), AndyS, Souri, LukeWM, kasei, bglimm (muted), pgearon, Ivan (muted), AlexPassant, chimezie, ??P6, Orri, Prateek
15:17:20 [dcharbon2]: pgearon: That sounds good, if we can get the quick turnaround
15:17:42 [AndyS]: Please link CVS log to email log for comments (CVS log accepts HTML markup)
15:17:49 [LukeWM]: q+
15:17:49 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Next week should be fine for deciding on publish for this document. Just be sure that there is an editor's note regarding the ongoing discussion
15:17:56 [Souri]: zakim, ??p6 is Matt
15:17:56 [Zakim]: +Matt; got it
15:18:26 [dcharbon2]: ??: It would be good to postpone to next week for Steve
15:18:37 [LukeWM]: it was me dcharbon2
15:18:49 [dcharbon2]: pgearon: Steve has been active in the discussion
15:18:50 [ivan]: s/??/LukeWM/
15:19:08 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Let's vote on it next week then
15:19:18 [AxelPolleres]: ACTION: Paul to make proposal to resolve current state of discussion on UPDATE in editor's notes and find approval by reviewers on email
15:19:18 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-180 - Make proposal to resolve current state of discussion on UPDATE in editor's notes and find approval by reviewers on email [on Paul Gearon - due 2010-01-19].
15:19:21 [dcharbon2]: pgearon: I'll email the list when I've updated the document
15:19:37 [AxelPolleres]: q?
15:19:44 [LukeWM]: zakim, ack me
15:19:44 [Zakim]: I see ??P2 on the speaker queue
15:19:44 [ivan]: ack LukeWM
15:19:45 [AxelPolleres]: ack LukeWM
15:20:05 [ivan]: zakim, who is here?
15:20:05 [Zakim]: On the phone I see OlivierCorby, AxelPolleres, dcharbon2 (muted), AndyS, Souri, LukeWM, kasei, bglimm (muted), pgearon, Ivan (muted), AlexPassant, chimezie, Matt, Orri, Prateek
15:20:08 [Zakim]: On IRC I see Prateek, chimezie, Souri, ivan, Zakim, RRSAgent, AxelPolleres, bglimm, OlivierCorby, LukeWM, LeeF, AndyS, dcharbon2, iv_an_ru, AlexPassant, karl, pgearon, kasei,
15:20:11 [LukeWM]: zakim, ack ??P2
15:20:11 [Zakim]: ... trackbot, sandro
15:20:11 [Zakim]: I see no one on the speaker queue
15:20:17 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: who is on the queue?
15:20:35 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Next document is property paths
15:20:47 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: There were some comments from Souri, before?
15:21:16 [dcharbon2]: Souri: There was a question of getting some more functionality, however, AndyS pointed out a previous straw poll rejecting that
15:21:28 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: It sounds like the comments have been addressed
15:21:44 [dcharbon2]: AndyS: Some of the issues have been opened as issues, everything should be noted
15:22:34 [dcharbon2]: AndyS: Would like to bring up a process issue for property paths, decided to publish with shortname. Will create a dangling document if property paths get merged into query specification. Will that cause a problem, can it be avoided?
15:22:36 [ivan]: zakim, unmute me
15:22:36 [Zakim]: Ivan should no longer be muted
15:22:38 [ivan]: q+
15:22:45 [ivan]: ack ivan
15:23:28 [dcharbon2]: ivan: to make things really nice, when we decide to merge the path into the query docuemnt, if we do decide that, we can put out a new version of the property paths document stating it has been discontinued and merged into the query document
15:23:37 [dcharbon2]: AndyS: That would be excellent
15:24:03 [dcharbon2]: ivan: When the group is closed, the site is set up so certain docs can be marked as retired and won't be available
15:24:07 [AxelPolleres]: PROPOSED: publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/property-paths/Overview.xml as FPWD under http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-property-paths/
15:24:17 [AndyS]: +1 (Talis)
15:24:18 [kasei]: +1 (RPI)
15:24:19 [ivan]: +1 (W3C)
15:24:19 [AlexPassant]: +1 (DERI, NUIG)
15:24:22 [dcharbon2]: +1 (IBM)
15:24:24 [OlivierCorby]: +1
15:24:27 [Prateek]: +1
15:24:28 [Souri]: +1 (Oracle) for both Souri and Matt
15:24:32 [pgearon]: +1
15:24:36 [bglimm]: 0 (Oxford) -- havn't read it, but see no reasons not to publish
15:24:37 [chimezie]: +1 (CCF)
15:24:58 [Prateek]: For Wright State University
15:25:05 [AxelPolleres]: RESOLVED: publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/property-paths/Overview.xml as FPWD under http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-property-paths/
15:25:19 [bglimm]: Zakim, unmute me
15:25:19 [Zakim]: bglimm should no longer be muted
15:25:23 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: get to the last document which is entailment, where there has been much work
15:25:52 [dcharbon2]: bglimm: I think I addressed almost all comments. There is still one issue which means and editors note will be added
15:26:08 [dcharbon2]: s/and editors/an editors/
15:26:42 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Issue around consistent active graph -
15:27:02 [dcharbon2]: bglimm: currently defined in a way that don't satisfy certain conditions
15:27:27 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Understood that the conditions weren't related when he read the draft
15:27:28 [ivan]: q+
15:27:40 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: suggest slight weakening of the editors note
15:28:00 [dcharbon2]: ivan: this should not be an obstacle for publishing?
15:28:13 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: I think this should be fine, but editor's note suggests a problem
15:28:31 [dcharbon2]: ivan: open issues should not be a reason not to publish the entailment docuemnt
15:28:49 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: can we propose to publish modulo pending change to editor's note?
15:28:52 [dcharbon2]: ivan: I think so
15:29:10 [AxelPolleres]: PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/xmlspec.xml as new version of http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-entailment/ modulo agreement between Birte and Axel on Editor's note regarding inconsistency
15:29:25 [ivan]: +1 (W3C)
15:29:27 [bglimm]: +1 (Oxford)
15:29:29 [AndyS]: +1 (Talis)
15:29:31 [dcharbon2]: +1 (IBM)
15:29:33 [kasei]: +1 (RPI)
15:29:35 [AlexPassant]: +1 (DERI, NUIG)
15:29:35 [OlivierCorby]: +1 (INRIA)
15:29:39 [chimezie]: +1 (CCF)
15:29:40 [Prateek]: +1 (Wright State University)
15:29:42 [bglimm]: Zakim, mute me
15:29:42 [Zakim]: bglimm should now be muted
15:29:57 [chimezie]: Zakim, mute me
15:29:57 [Zakim]: chimezie should now be muted
15:29:59 [AxelPolleres]: RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/xmlspec.xml as new version of http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-entailment/ modulo agreement between Birte and Axel on Editor's note regarding inconsistency
15:30:22 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: congratulate and thank the editors for their hard work
15:30:33 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: have protocol and update pending
15:30:49 [dcharbon2]: zakim, unmute me
15:30:49 [Zakim]: dcharbon2 should no longer be muted
15:31:30 [AndyS]: dcharbon2: Did Axel comments (LeeF) but pref to wait until next week
15:31:37 [dcharbon2]: LeeF had incorporated AxelPolleres comments
15:31:45 [AndyS]: LukeWM: Agree - wait is good
15:31:55 [chimezie]: Zakim, unmute me
15:31:55 [Zakim]: chimezie should no longer be muted
15:31:58 [dcharbon2]: I proposed postponing to next week to incorporate LukeWM's comments
15:32:08 [dcharbon2]: It was agreed
15:32:40 [dcharbon2]: chimezie: Incorporating comments went well, unless AndyS has comments, thinks the specification is ready for publication
15:32:54 [dcharbon2]: AndyS: Yes, I'm happy for it to be published as a working draft
15:32:55 [AxelPolleres]: PROPOSED: publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/ as new version of http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-http-rdf-update/
15:32:59 [dcharbon2]: zakim, mute me
15:32:59 [Zakim]: dcharbon2 should now be muted
15:33:07 [AndyS]: +1 (Talis)
15:33:16 [kasei]: +1 (RPI)
15:33:16 [dcharbon2]: +1 (IBM)
15:33:24 [AlexPassant]: +1 (DERI, NUIG)
15:33:30 [OlivierCorby]: 0, I have not read them
15:33:38 [bglimm]: 0 (Oxford) -- again not read the document, but I see no reasons not to publish
15:33:46 [pgearon]: +1
15:33:47 [Prateek]: +1 (Wright State University)
15:33:50 [Souri]: 0 (I need more careful reading, but would not want to hold it)
15:34:10 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Some abstentions, no objections
15:34:13 [AxelPolleres]: RESOLVED: publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/ as new version of http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-http-rdf-update/
15:34:21 [chimezie]: Zakim, mute me
15:34:21 [Zakim]: chimezie should now be muted
15:34:39 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Have two remaining votes for next week
15:34:49 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Time to go through the update issues
15:35:12 [AxelPolleres]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JanMar/0133.html
15:35:12 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: made a small attempt to summarize the current open issues for update
15:35:30 [kasei]: and typing
15:35:34 [chimezie]: Axel you are cutting in and out
15:35:39 [AxelPolleres]: Zakim, mute ivan
15:35:39 [Zakim]: Ivan should now be muted
15:35:41 [AndyS]: Can we discuss having a new overview doc?
15:36:10 [AlexPassant]: AndyS: do you mean updating the F&R ?
15:36:17 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: link is a summary of the issues AndyS and Paul had brought up
15:36:35 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: There were several open issues, first is actually a closed issue that seems to have been forgotten
15:36:35 [MattPerry]: MattPerry has joined #sparql
15:36:56 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: There was some late unhappiness with the wording of the resolution
15:37:01 [AndyS]: No - a summary /guide to the spec we produce. Came up in update discussion.
15:37:02 [AxelPolleres]: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/27
15:38:05 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Issue 27 is about substituting in updates, had been closed, but concerns about wording in resolution
15:38:31 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Resolution had been passed at face2face 2
15:38:49 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Are there any objects to just allowing sparql 1.1 where clauses (straw poll)
15:39:00 [dcharbon2]: s/objects/objections/
15:39:00 [AxelPolleres]: q?
15:39:01 [AndyS]: No objection here
15:39:02 [ivan]: not exactly:-(
15:39:04 [ivan]: ack ivan
15:39:09 [chimezie]: Zakim, unmute me
15:39:09 [Zakim]: chimezie should no longer be muted
15:39:13 [ivan]: yes
15:39:18 [chimezie]: I'm not 100% clear either
15:39:23 [bglimm]: me either
15:39:51 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: said we would close this issue that where clauses in update would allow all sparql 1.0, but would mark sparql 1.1 additions as at risk
15:40:04 [ivan]: including property paths?
15:40:19 [ivan]: yes
15:40:23 [bglimm]: yes
15:40:23 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: suggesting, passing resolution allowing sparql 1.1 where clauses in updates after comments from AndyS and paul
15:40:59 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: If we psas this resolution, property paths would be allowed in update
15:41:10 [dcharbon2]: s/psas/pass
15:41:37 [AxelPolleres]: Strawpoll: any objections to allow full SPARQL1.1/Query WHERE clauses for update WHERE clauses?
15:42:02 [AxelPolleres]: Strawpoll: shall we allow full SPARQL1.1/Query WHERE clauses for update WHERE clauses?
15:42:07 [ivan]: +1
15:42:11 [dcharbon2]: +1
15:42:12 [AndyS]: yes +1
15:42:15 [ivan]: +1 for Orri
15:42:18 [pgearon]: +1
15:42:18 [MattPerry]: +1
15:42:19 [Souri]: +1
15:42:21 [chimezie]: 0 (I'm cautious about allowing at the outset that amount of expressiveness in the update language)
15:42:21 [bglimm]: +1
15:42:21 [Prateek]: +1
15:42:23 [chimezie]: but will go with group
15:42:26 [kasei]: +1
15:42:31 [AxelPolleres]: +1
15:42:48 [LukeWM]: 0
15:42:58 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Chimezie, can you elaborate your concerns?
15:43:05 [OlivierCorby]: +1
15:43:49 [dcharbon2]: chimezie: this would allow all constructs from 1.1 and there are some constructs that aren't fully settled. Understand using feedback to determine what to not allow in these where clauses in the update language.
15:44:32 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: chair hat off, need full sparql query processor for update where clause if we don't allow sparql 1.1 (to deal with sparql query 1.0)
15:45:05 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Don't see where this resolution would introduce problems
15:45:16 [AndyS]: There may well be incomplete impls of update - but there are of SPARQL 1.0 Query today.
15:45:18 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: if we restrict it, we could restrict it in terms of profiles
15:45:53 [dcharbon2]: chimezie: I can see that it will be less of an issue. Wanted to clarify process for resolving an issues discovered down the road.
15:46:11 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: LukeWM, any comments for regarding your abstention?
15:46:28 [dcharbon2]: LukeWM: Not really, I'm not familiar with all of the issues
15:46:47 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Maybe we shouldn't pass this resolution today
15:47:06 [dcharbon2]: LukeWM: Thinks LeeF may have been involved in the original resolution
15:47:18 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: yes, everyone at f2f 2 had been a part of it.
15:47:36 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: we have a resolution, we could close the issue. However, we could propose this new resolution next week
15:47:49 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: will take this to email and suggest this for resolution next time
15:47:51 [AxelPolleres]: ACTION: axel will take this on email and suggest the resolution for next TC.
15:47:51 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-181 - Will take this on email and suggest the resolution for next TC. [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-01-19].
15:48:13 [AxelPolleres]: Close ISSUE-27 by resolution of F2F2
15:48:56 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: next issue was issue-45, insert and delete update to be nested inside select queries. Andy and Paul were heavily objec ting
15:49:22 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: I agree. Would propose to close with it's not allowed
15:49:24 [AxelPolleres]: PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-45 with the understanding that nesting of updates is not allowed.
15:49:30 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Any objections?
15:49:32 [pgearon]: +1
15:49:33 [AxelPolleres]: +1 for Orri
15:49:42 [AxelPolleres]: +1
15:49:44 [chimezie]: +1
15:49:47 [bglimm]: +1
15:49:53 [AlexPassant]: +1
15:49:59 [MattPerry]: +1
15:50:21 [dcharbon2]: AndyS: wording of the proposal is a bit loose, issue is the nesting of update inside queries
15:50:23 [AxelPolleres]: PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-45 with the understanding that nesting of updates inside queries is not allowed.
15:50:32 [AxelPolleres]: +1
15:50:33 [AndyS]: +1
15:50:34 [kasei]: +1
15:50:37 [dcharbon2]: +1
15:50:37 [Souri]: +1
15:50:39 [bglimm]: +1
15:50:39 [pgearon]: +!
15:50:42 [pgearon]: +1
15:50:52 [LukeWM]: +1
15:50:56 [AxelPolleres]: RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-45 with the understanding that nesting of updates inside queries is not allowed.
15:51:11 [AxelPolleres]: close ISSUE-45 with the understanding that nesting of updates inside queries is not allowed
15:51:25 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Next is ISSUE-24
15:51:37 [AxelPolleres]: ISSUE-24: Can data be SELECTed from one graph and INSERTed into another (moved)
15:51:37 [trackbot]: ISSUE-24 Move data between graphs (select on one graph and insert into another... copy from/to) notes added
15:52:13 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: In current working draft this is possible
15:52:16 [AxelPolleres]: PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-24 with the understanding moving is possible with the DELETE/INSERT construct in the
15:52:16 [AxelPolleres]: current SPARQL1.1/Update WD.
15:52:55 [dcharbon2]: +1
15:52:55 [pgearon]: +1
15:52:59 [AndyS]: 0
15:53:10 [AlexPassant]: +1
15:53:21 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Closing or wording that you're objecting to?
15:53:33 [OlivierCorby]: +1
15:53:44 [dcharbon2]: AndyS: worried that we haven't provided a way to perform a common operation
15:54:15 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: isn't this the same as issue that we may need more sophisticated update operations?
15:54:19 [dcharbon2]: AndyS: yes, the two overlap
15:54:23 [AxelPolleres]: RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-24 with the understanding moving is possible with the DELETE/INSERT construct in the current SPARQL1.1/Update WD.
15:54:35 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Since you abstained and issue-21 is open, can we resolve?
15:54:39 [dcharbon2]: AndyS: yes, I think so
15:55:04 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: other issues are 28, 37, 38 please bring to email
15:55:18 [AndyS]: Issue 21 is closed
15:55:22 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: there was some discussion around issue-20, need to return to it
15:55:48 [pgearon]: I thought issue 38 was worth talking about now. There doesn't seem to be controversy around it
15:56:02 [dcharbon2]: I see it as closed too
15:56:18 [dcharbon2]: May 7, 2009
15:56:41 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Was closed because there were no concrete proposals for that round
15:57:01 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: if there are no concrete proposals, rather leave things out in that round
15:58:10 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Paul, you want to talk more about issue 38?
15:58:26 [dcharbon2]: pgearon: Yes, this is about a standard pattern matching feature in a where clause
15:58:43 [dcharbon2]: pgearon: left it open to be sure that there aren't issues I'm not aware of
15:59:06 [dcharbon2]: pgearon: make sure everyone else agrees with it's just standard pattern matching
15:59:20 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres:
15:59:34 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Would be at risk by current definition of issue-27
16:00:11 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: not sure we can pass a resolution on issue-38 now, is covered by the resolution of issue-24 perhaps?
16:00:24 [kasei]: Before we finish, LeeF asked me to bring up test cases: "we need test cases, what should we do?"
16:00:27 [kasei]: Just something to think about.
16:00:27 [ivan]: q+
16:00:30 [dcharbon2]: AxelPolleres: Suggest to run that through email
16:00:41 [ivan]: greg
16:00:47 [ivan]: zakim, unmute me
16:00:47 [Zakim]: Ivan was not muted, ivan
16:00:58 [AxelPolleres]: ACTION: Axel to summarise status of update issues per email
16:00:58 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-182 - Summarise status of update issues per email [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-01-19].
16:01:21 [dcharbon2]: ivan: Lee sent out an email about who might be at semtech. Please answer, we might propose to have a panel as we did previously
16:01:33 [dcharbon2]: ivan: need to know if there will be enough people to do that
16:02:01 [dcharbon2]: kasei: Talking with LeeF, about test cases. Need to start thinking about that and perhaps cover in a future call?
16:02:08 [AndyS]: +1 to starting to gather test cases
16:02:16 [kasei]: yes, thanks ivan.
16:02:33 [ivan]: bye everybody
16:02:34 [Zakim]: -Orri
16:02:34 [Zakim]: -Souri
16:02:35 [bglimm]: bye
16:02:37 [ivan]: zakim, drop me
16:02:37 [Zakim]: Ivan is being disconnected
16:02:38 [Zakim]: -Prateek
16:02:38 [Zakim]: -Ivan
16:02:40 [Zakim]: -AxelPolleres
16:02:42 [AndyS]: ADJOURNED
16:02:42 [Zakim]: -AlexPassant
16:02:45 [Zakim]: -bglimm
16:02:46 [Zakim]: -Matt
16:02:48 [Zakim]: -chimezie
16:02:52 [Zakim]: -kasei
16:02:54 [Zakim]: -dcharbon2
16:02:56 [Zakim]: -OlivierCorby
16:02:58 [Zakim]: -AndyS
16:03:37 [Zakim]: -pgearon
16:04:50 [AxelPolleres]: rrsagent, make records public
16:08:02 [OlivierCorby]: OlivierCorby has left #sparql
16:13:25 [AxelPolleres]: Summary for next time: We need to (1) resolve on publication for protocol and update, (2) we should talk about publishing process/schedule (probably just among team/chairs) (3) we should continue on the update issues, (4) we have discussion of comments open (some unresponded really old ones) (5) we have to talk about test cases... thanks everybody!
16:13:44 [AxelPolleres]: rrsagent, make records public
16:21:39 [AndyS]: and (6) talk about an overview document.
16:35:01 [Zakim]: disconnecting the lone participant, LukeWM, in SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM
16:35:04 [Zakim]: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
16:35:05 [Zakim]: Attendees were OlivierCorby, AxelPolleres, dcharbon2, Souri, kasei, bglimm, pgearon, LukeWM, AndyS, Ivan, AlexPassant, chimezie, Orri, Prateek, Matt
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