Test-Chatlog 2009-03-03

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14:16:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
14:16:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-irc
14:16:25 <ericP> Zakim, space for 20 for 2 hours?
14:16:25 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, ericP.
14:16:56 <LeeF_> zakim, you're not alone
14:16:56 <Zakim> I don't understand 'you're not alone', LeeF_
14:17:11 <ericP> everyone's a critic
14:19:17 <dom> dom has joined #sparql
14:19:21 <LeeF_> Should I copy&paste introductions onto the wiki, or just link to public-rdf-dawg archives? leaning towards the latter, as the Internet is crowded as is
14:19:23 <dom> dom has left #sparql
14:19:37 <ericP> indeed
14:19:41 <ericP> instructions?
14:19:48 <LeeF_> instructions?
14:20:55 <ericP> Zakim, room for 20 for 2 hours?
14:20:55 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, ericP.
14:21:43 <ericP> Zakim, room for 20 for 120 minutes?
14:21:45 <Zakim> sorry, ericP; could not schedule an adhoc conference; passcode overlap; if you do not have a fixed code you may try again
14:21:55 <ericP> Zakim, this will be SPARQL
14:21:55 <Zakim> ok, ericP; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 39 minutes
14:22:00 <ericP> fine, whatever
14:22:22 <LeeF> lol
14:22:48 <LeeF> ericP, can you make sure we've got a tracker request in progress? i think sandro said he didn't see one in the DB
14:23:02 <ericP> trackbot, how's it hanging?
14:23:02 <trackbot> Sorry, ericP, I don't understand 'trackbot, how's it hanging?'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
14:24:49 <LeeF> trackbot, status
14:25:08 <LeeF> trackbot, you need remedial match classes
14:25:08 <trackbot> Sorry, LeeF, I don't understand 'trackbot, you need remedial match classes'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
14:25:17 <LeeF> s/match/math
14:26:28 <john-l> john-l has joined #sparql
14:27:53 <LeeF> ericP, I have no idea how to tell if trackbot is configured for us or what or where
14:34:24 <ericP> the sparql tracker setup is yet untested, but probably fine
14:34:44 <LeeF> does it have a URL somewhere in Web space?
14:35:01 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to see if the SPARQL tracker is setup correctly
14:35:01 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - LeeF
14:35:27 <LeeF> action -1
14:35:28 <trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
14:35:42 <LeeF> how does this thing learn about users?
14:37:17 <LeeF> trackbot, status?
14:38:49 <LeeF> zakim, tracker, RRSAgent, please fight to the death
14:38:49 <Zakim> I don't understand you, LeeF
14:39:23 <ericP> LeeF, i'm about to gather my compost and head to the 'tute
14:39:28 <ericP> try asking on #sysreq
14:39:38 <ericP> 'cause i have no idea how to use tracker
14:40:09 <LeeF> ericP, ack
14:43:02 <sandro> wow, that's a lot of users.   Heh....
14:44:23 <kasei> kasei has joined #sparql
14:44:54 <LeeF> sandro, are you able to illuminate me in how to find the sparql tracker & how to add users?
14:46:51 <LeeF> Scribe: ericP
14:46:54 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
14:47:07 <LeeF> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-03-03
14:47:11 <LeeF> Regrets:
14:47:27 <LeeF> agenda + admin
14:47:31 <LeeF> aegnda + logistics
14:47:35 <LeeF> agenda + liaisons
14:47:38 <sandro> Lee, I don't think tracker knows about sparql.    The systems team has to tell it to connect this IRC channel to group 35463, then it should just know who is who.
14:47:55 <LeeF> ok, thanks, I will mail them myseld
14:47:58 <LeeF> myself, even
14:48:00 <LeeF> agenda -2
14:48:04 <LeeF> agenda + logistics
14:48:08 <LeeF> agenda + liaisons
14:48:12 <LeeF> agenda + face to face
14:48:17 <LeeF> agenda + gathering use cases
14:48:22 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #sparql
14:51:22 <LeeF> zakim, code?
14:51:22 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), LeeF
14:51:45 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
14:51:52 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum
14:52:00 <LeeF> zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is always me
14:52:00 <Zakim> I don't understand 'Lee_Feigenbaum is always me', LeeF
14:52:02 <LeeF> zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is me
14:52:02 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
14:54:26 <LeeF> Time zone fun. If the US starts daylight savings time but no one else does, and we fix around US time, then the meeting is (a) 1 hour earlier for everyone else, or (b) 1 hour later for everyone else?
14:54:41 <Zakim> +kasei
14:54:56 <LeeF> I'm going with (a)
14:55:40 <iv_an_ru> Hello LeeF, I think I'll split list of extensions tomorrow, not today. BTW is our wiki supposed to be visible for public or we do not "advertize" it?
14:55:40 <Zakim> +??P16
14:55:48 <AndyS> zakim, ??P16 is me
14:55:48 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:56:04 <ivan> ivan has joined #sparql
14:56:22 <LeeF> hi iv_an_ru, tomorrow's fine - our goal is to gather by next week 
14:56:34 <LeeF> And the wiki should indeed be public, we conduct our business in public 
14:56:35 <SteveH> SteveH has joined #sparql
14:57:06 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
14:57:10 <LeeF> agenda + wiki & communications are public
14:57:17 <ywang4> ywang4 has joined #sparql
14:57:27 <Zakim> +??P21
14:57:31 <Zakim> +??P26
14:57:37 <bijan> bijan has joined #sparql
14:57:41 <LukeWM> LukeWM has joined #sparql
14:57:49 <Zakim> + +1.216.445.aaaa
14:57:53 <terraces> terraces has joined #sparql
14:57:54 <Zakim> +iv_an_ru
14:57:56 <LeeF> zakim, bijan is P21
14:57:56 <Zakim> sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named 'bijan'
14:57:58 <LeeF> zakim, bijan is ??P21
14:57:58 <Zakim> sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named 'bijan'
14:58:01 <bijan> zakim, ??P21 is me
14:58:01 <Zakim> +bijan; got it
14:58:02 <LeeF> zakim, P21 is bijan
14:58:02 <Zakim> sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named 'P21'
14:58:13 <bijan> zakim, mute me
14:58:13 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
14:58:15 <Zakim> +??P29
14:58:26 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P29 is [Garlik]
14:58:26 <Zakim> +[Garlik]; got it
14:58:34 <Zakim> +Chimezie_Ogbuji
14:58:35 <iv_an_ru> wow, I've connected to the telcon from the first attempt :)
14:58:40 <Zakim> +??P31
14:58:47 <LeeF> zakim, aaaa is john-l
14:58:47 <Zakim> +john-l; got it
14:59:06 <Zakim> +??P19
14:59:11 <terraces> Zakim: 31 is  me
14:59:37 <LeeF> zakim, ??P31 is terraces
14:59:37 <Zakim> +terraces; got it
14:59:39 <terraces> Zakim, ??31 is me
14:59:39 <Zakim> sorry, terraces, I do not recognize a party named '??31'
14:59:44 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #sparql
14:59:51 <LeeF> zakim, ??P19 is AxelPolleres
14:59:51 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres; got it
14:59:54 <terraces> Zakim, ??P31 is me
14:59:54 <Zakim> I already had ??P31 as terraces, terraces
14:59:58 <LeeF> zakim, who's here?
14:59:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see LeeF, kasei (muted), AndyS, bijan (muted), ??P26, john-l, iv_an_ru, [Garlik], Chimezie_Ogbuji, terraces, AxelPolleres
14:59:59 <iv_an_ru> zakim, ?31 is terraces
15:00:03 <AxelPolleres> THanks, accifently called before logging to irc
15:00:06 <Zakim> sorry, iv_an_ru, I do not recognize a party named '?31'
15:00:16 <Zakim> +ivan.a
15:00:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see AxelPolleres, terraces, LukeWM, bijan, ywang4, chimezie, SteveH, ivan, AndyS, kasei, john-l, RRSAgent, Zakim, LeeF, AndyS_, iv_an_ru, trackbot, sandro, ericP
15:00:32 <ivan> zakim, ivan.a is ivan
15:00:43 <Zakim> +ivan; got it
15:01:27 <LeeF> zakim, who's here?
15:01:31 <Zakim> + +656304aabb
15:01:35 <ywang4> I am
15:01:37 <ywang4> Yimin here
15:01:56 <LeeF> zakim, aabb is ywang4
15:01:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see LeeF, kasei (muted), AndyS, bijan (muted), ??P26, john-l, iv_an_ru, [Garlik], Chimezie_Ogbuji, terraces, AxelPolleres, ivan, +656304aabb
15:02:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see AxelPolleres, terraces, LukeWM, bijan, ywang4, chimezie, SteveH, ivan, AndyS, kasei, john-l, RRSAgent, Zakim, LeeF, AndyS_, iv_an_ru, trackbot, sandro, ericP
15:02:33 <Zakim> +ywang4; got it
15:02:34 <AxelPolleres> who's scribing?
15:03:23 <Zakim> -??P26
15:03:49 <AxelPolleres> scribe: AxelPolleres
15:04:11 <LeeF> -> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-03-03 agenda
15:04:12 <AxelPolleres> scribenick: AxelPolleres
15:05:06 <AxelPolleres> Lee: clarification... Wg is open only to W3C members, although we conduct work in public
15:05:33 <AxelPolleres> ... minutes, agenda, wiki are all public and encouraged to be shared.
15:05:59 <LeeF> team-sparql-chairs@w3.org
15:06:09 <AxelPolleres> ... if you want to keep something non-public, mail us (team/chairs)
15:06:19 <LeeF> topic: admin
15:06:31 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aacc
15:06:48 <LeeF> -> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-02-24 minutes from last week
15:06:56 <AxelPolleres> minutes from last time are on the web.
15:07:06 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: accept minutes from last week
15:07:07 <LeeF> zakim, aacc is Souri
15:07:07 <Zakim> +Souri; got it
15:07:12 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office
15:07:12 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
15:07:14 <Zakim> +EricP
15:07:19 <Zakim> +Ori
15:07:23 <bijan> I just look and they look ok
15:07:30 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: minutes from last week approved
15:07:40 <john-l> Zakim: mute me
15:07:44 <LeeF> scribenick: ericP
15:08:12 <AxelPolleres> scribe: Eric P.
15:08:13 <ericP> next meeting: 10am US time
15:08:48 <LeeF> zakim, who's speaking?
15:08:59 <Zakim> LeeF, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: LeeF (31%), AndyS (13%), Souri (38%)
15:09:01 <LeeF> 14:00 UTC next meeting
15:09:06 <ericP> lastlog trackbot
15:09:12 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, mute Souri
15:09:12 <Zakim> Souri should now be muted
15:09:33 <ericP> trackbot, start teleconf
15:09:33 <LeeF> topic: logistics
15:09:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:09:39 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be No Teleconference
15:09:39 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
15:09:40 <trackbot> Meeting: AC Meeting attendees group Teleconference
15:09:40 <trackbot> Date: 03 March 2009
15:09:56 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki
15:10:26 <LeeF> zakim, mute ericP
15:10:26 <Zakim> sorry, LeeF, I don't know what conference this is
15:10:32 <LeeF> zakim, this is SPARQL
15:10:32 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM
15:10:33 <dom> dom has joined #sparql
15:10:37 <LeeF> zakim, mute ericP
15:10:37 <Zakim> EricP should now be muted
15:10:51 <LeeF> -> p://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Meetings 
15:10:57 <LeeF> -> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Meetings 
15:11:15 <dom> RRSAgent, pointer?
15:11:15 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-irc#T15-11-15
15:11:37 <Zakim> +daveNewman
15:11:45 <LeeF> -> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Scribe_List scribe list
15:13:30 <trackbot> Getting data for channel #sparql at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track//api/users failed - alert sysreq of a possible bug
15:14:18 <ericP> LeeF: we have intros linked from the wiki
15:14:29 <LeeF> zakim, who's here?
15:14:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see LeeF, kasei (muted), AndyS, bijan (muted), john-l, iv_an_ru, [Garlik], Chimezie_Ogbuji, terraces, AxelPolleres, ivan, ywang4, Souri (muted), EricP (muted), Ori,
15:14:30 <ericP> ... encourage others to supply intros
15:14:33 <Zakim> ... daveNewman
15:14:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see dom, AxelPolleres, terraces, LukeWM, bijan, ywang4, chimezie, SteveH, ivan, AndyS, kasei, john-l, RRSAgent, Zakim, LeeF, AndyS_, iv_an_ru, trackbot, sandro, ericP
15:14:50 <ericP> john-l: chime and i missed last week
15:15:03 <dom> trackbot, start meeting
15:15:04 <ericP> ... 2nd rep for cleveland clinic (cleveburg OH)
15:15:23 <ericP> ... chime and i are working on an impl, hoping to push mods back into spec
15:15:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:15:32 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be No Teleconference
15:15:32 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
15:15:34 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
15:15:35 <ericP> chime: john-l and i work on a patient registry
15:15:36 <trackbot> Date: 03 March 2009
15:15:52 <ericP> ... we've done a hand full of improvements. expect they are useful in general
15:15:58 <ericP> ivan: ivan the elder
15:16:07 <ericP> ... W3C semweb activity lead
15:16:13 <ericP> ... 2nd contact
15:16:28 <ericP> yimin: working in lilly singapore
15:16:44 <ericP> ... working on data integration projects in lilly
15:16:58 <ericP> ... looking for insert/delete, stuff like that
15:17:11 <LeeF> zakim, unmute Souri
15:17:11 <Zakim> sorry, LeeF, I don't know what conference this is
15:17:16 <LeeF> zakim, this is SPARQL
15:17:16 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM
15:17:18 <ivan> zakim, mute me
15:17:18 <Zakim> ivan should now be muted
15:17:21 <LeeF> zakim, unmute Souri
15:17:21 <Zakim> Souri should no longer be muted
15:17:43 <ericP> souri: Souri Das, Oracle
15:18:27 <ericP> souri: was part of DAWG. passionate about it as i expect it to be useful for DI in general
15:18:52 <LeeF> topic: liaisons
15:19:13 <dom> dom has left #sparql
15:19:22 <ericP> LeeF, we might want a tracker intro under logistics
15:19:39 <LeeF> ericP, yes, i agree, but am not prepared to do it at the moment :)
15:19:44 <ericP> AxelPolleres: liasons are supposed to connect us with other groups touching our work
15:20:07 <ericP> ... need liasons with three W3C groups:
15:20:10 <bijan> XQuery?
15:20:11 <ericP> ... .. OWL
15:20:14 <ericP> ... .. RIF
15:20:19 <ericP> ... .. RdfRDB
15:20:21 <bijan> HCLS interest group
15:20:27 <ericP> ... any other suggestions?
15:20:31 <ivan> s/RdfRDB/RDB2RDF/
15:20:47 <ericP> ... would like liason status update at beginnings of meetings
15:21:03 <bijan> I think it's overkill to do it each telecon...generally, there's fewer occasions to mention
15:21:06 <bijan> q+
15:21:24 <souri2> souri2 has joined #sparql
15:21:25 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
15:21:25 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
15:21:43 <LeeF> ack bijan
15:21:56 <ericP> RESOLVED: Bijan appointed OWL liason
15:21:57 <iv_an_ru> Orri and I are in RDB2RDF
15:22:04 <ericP> q+ to say i have good contact with HCLS
15:22:14 <AxelPolleres> Bijan: additional liaison XQuery?
15:22:20 <bijan> +1 to eric for liasing with HCLS
15:22:27 <ericP> RESOLVED: ericP appointed HCLS liason
15:22:31 <ivan> q+ can also liaise with OWL if bijan has a problem of timing, for example
15:22:46 <ericP> RESOLVED: orri appointed RDB2RDF liason
15:22:58 <ericP> RESOLVED: axel appointed RIF liason
15:23:29 <ericP> ack me
15:23:31 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to say i have good contact with HCLS
15:24:18 <AxelPolleres> Should we "advertise" to them? maybe someone was interested to join us, at least to follow?
15:24:21 <AndyS> XQuery arealos working on full text search
15:24:33 <LeeF> zakim, mute ericP
15:24:33 <Zakim> EricP should now be muted
15:24:40 <ericP> but i was locally muted
15:24:46 <AndyS> s/arealoo/are also/
15:24:49 <ericP> ericP: expect that we will need to touch XQuery if we import more XPath functions
15:24:51 <LeeF> topic: F2F
15:24:58 <AndyS> s/arealos/are also/
15:25:23 <ericP> LeeF: most folks have tougher travel restrictions than in the past
15:25:37 <iv_an_ru> we will need to touch XQuery if we extend XQuery with SPARQL :)
15:25:37 <ericP> ... don't expect to have our four meetings this year
15:25:56 <ericP> ... hope to have a f2f a couple months from now when we settle on our deliverables
15:27:24 <ericP> PROPOSED: host first f2f 5-6May in Cambridge, MA, USA -- (other telecon sites may be amendmants)
15:27:43 <bijan> tues are potentially bad
15:28:09 <AndyS> May 6,7 is preferrable to me as well.  Can make May 5 if necessary
15:28:25 <bijan> I can't do tues easily
15:28:53 <LeeF> zakim, unmute ericP
15:28:53 <Zakim> EricP should no longer be muted
15:29:26 <AxelPolleres> eric: rooms might be a problem 7-8
15:31:17 <bijan> 2 days
15:31:22 <chimezie> +1 2 days
15:31:24 <ywang4> 2 days should be fine
15:31:28 <SteveH> +1 2 days
15:31:30 <ivan> 2 days (it is hard to keep up work of that intensity for 3 days)
15:31:40 <souri2> May 6-7 is better for me. 2 days.
15:31:42 <AndyS> 2 days unless it is clear 3 is needed
15:31:52 <bijan> Can't do the 5th
15:31:58 <bijan> (most likely)
15:32:07 <AxelPolleres> no preference 
15:32:24 <ywang4> okay, i can try to adapt
15:33:04 <iv_an_ru> My US visa has expired so I'm probably missing the f2f.
15:33:14 <AxelPolleres> let's tentatively fix 6-7 shall we also set up a questionaire?
15:33:15 <SteveH> +q to ask about multi site
15:33:56 <ivan> no
15:34:00 <bijan> I think chairs decision is fine
15:34:14 <LeeF> ack SteveH
15:34:14 <Zakim> SteveH, you wanted to ask about multi site
15:34:19 <bijan> As long as it's announced far enough in advance...8 weeks
15:34:57 <AndyS> I can ask our comms people about a telecon link
15:35:07 <bijan> I can ask about access grid access
15:35:27 <LeeF> zakim, mute ericP
15:35:27 <Zakim> EricP should now be muted
15:35:56 <LeeF> Pick other (U.K. / Europe?) site in the next week or two, please send possibilities to mailing list
15:36:27 <ericP> PROPOSED: host first f2f 6-7May in Cambridge, MA, USA -- (other telecon sites may be amendmants)
15:36:39 <souri2> What will be the hours for F2F?
15:36:41 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/F2F1
15:36:49 <AxelPolleres> q+
15:36:56 <ericP> q+ to mention video room availability
15:37:52 <LeeF> ack ericP
15:37:54 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to mention video room availability
15:37:59 <LeeF> ack AxelPolleres
15:38:16 <ivan> q+
15:38:23 <bijan> Manchester has a room
15:38:35 <bijan> HP has one...I've seen it :)
15:39:10 <ivan> ack ivan
15:40:41 <LeeF> zakim, mute ericP
15:40:41 <Zakim> EricP should now be muted
15:41:02 <LeeF> topic: use cases
15:41:24 <iv_an_ru> use case 1: TPC-H
15:41:36 <iv_an_ru> (we pass it in SPARQL :)
15:41:39 <ericP> LeeF: 1st phase: define what features we want to work on
15:41:56 <ericP> ... we're bound to 18 months, including spec, tests, impl report
15:42:13 <ericP> ... likely a very small set. need to settle on them in the next month
15:42:25 <bijan> q+
15:42:38 <AxelPolleres> Please indicate your availability for F2F1 on the wiki page: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/F2F1 
15:42:53 <ericP> ... we're blurring the line between use case and feature
15:43:15 <ericP> ... e.g. "peform aggregate functions", "query over arbitrary length tasks"
15:43:46 <AndyS> q+ to ask about outside contributions
15:43:51 <ericP> ... we're not aiming for higher-level use cases, à la "Bob runs a stereo store..."
15:44:16 <ericP> ... looking for examples, implementations
15:44:27 <LeeF> ack bijan
15:44:29 <iv_an_ru> use case 2: a graph with Gantt chart, personal calendars and some trivial validation.
15:44:29 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
15:44:29 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
15:44:34 <ericP> ... need a champions who will speak in depth about the feature
15:44:52 <ericP> bijan: would we do one req, or stagger them?
15:45:10 <ivan> q+
15:45:22 <bijan> zakim, mute me
15:45:22 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
15:45:36 <ericP> LeeF: should we write todo list or a priority list?
15:45:38 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
15:45:38 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
15:45:47 <ericP> bijan: i like getting things done
15:46:02 <ericP> ... but there's value publicity of a slew of things
15:46:09 <ericP> ... but if we can get stuff out
15:46:11 <ericP> q+
15:46:13 <AxelPolleres> q+
15:46:16 <bijan> zakim, mute me
15:46:16 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
15:46:48 <ericP> AndyS: knocking off some easy ones would get the community engaged
15:46:52 <bijan> +1 to AndyS
15:46:59 <LeeF> ack ivan
15:47:03 <SteveH> +1 to AndyS
15:47:04 <ericP> ... i like to work on one thing at a time, and do i properly
15:47:16 <ericP> ivan: short charter, and rec process takes time and energy
15:47:26 <AndyS> s/do i /do it /
15:47:30 <ericP> ... publishing several things in a staggered way could backfire
15:47:42 <bijan> q+ to answer
15:47:51 <ericP> ... bijan, is the idea to pub sparql1,1, 1,2, 1.3?
15:47:52 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
15:47:52 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
15:48:05 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/01/sparql-charter.html#deliverables
15:48:09 <iv_an_ru> +q
15:48:12 <ericP> bijan, was wondering if we could modularize parts into specs.
15:48:24 <bijan> zakim, mute me
15:48:24 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
15:48:26 <ericP> ... e.g. separate owl semantics spec
15:48:59 <Zakim> +Souri_Das
15:49:01 <Zakim> -Souri
15:49:01 <LeeF> ack ericP
15:49:11 <bijan> The HTML5 spec indicates the stability levels of different *sections* of the spec...which might be good for implementors
15:49:13 <ericP> LeeF: modularizing sounds great, if we can modularize ourselves
15:49:17 <AndyS> +1 to modularization (if it does not cause rework just for modulrity)
15:49:26 <LeeF> ack bijan
15:49:27 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to answer
15:49:32 <LeeF> zakim, mute bijan
15:49:33 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
15:49:35 <bijan> zakim, mute me
15:49:35 <Zakim> bijan was already muted, bijan
15:50:38 <LeeF> ack AxelPolleres
15:50:44 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
15:50:44 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-irc#T15-50-44
15:50:47 <ericP> ericP: could modularize sections, do tests and impl reports, and package as a spec when we get near the end
15:51:10 <ericP> AxelPolleres: use cases should identify which spec they affect (e.g. protocol, xml results format)
15:51:25 <ericP> ... we've listed deliverables in the charter. we're not bound to that?
15:51:42 <ericP> LeeF: nope. our deliverables will fall out from our use cases
15:52:04 <SteveH> q+ to ask about terminology
15:52:16 <LeeF> ack iv_an_ru
15:52:57 <ericP> iv_an_ru: not sure the final doc should be a single spec, e.g. SPARQL1.1
15:53:09 <ericP> ... they [features] are more useful when used together
15:53:24 <ericP> ... when i need business intelligence, i need it on everything
15:53:29 <ivan> +1 to iv_an_ru
15:53:34 <ericP> LeeF: don't expect us to break up core parts
15:54:07 <LeeF> q?
15:54:13 <LeeF> ack SteveH
15:54:13 <Zakim> SteveH, you wanted to ask about terminology
15:54:13 <bijan> The spec shouldn't have everything it but neither should it be the minimal publishable unit
15:54:17 <ericP> ... don't want to lose interop if all these features are on their own specs
15:54:21 <bijan> Rightsizing!
15:55:01 <ericP> SteveH: do we want use cases?
15:55:09 <bijan> New features + rationale?
15:55:14 <ericP> ... am nagged by calling features "use cases"
15:55:14 <iv_an_ru> yes!
15:55:20 <AxelPolleres> q+
15:55:31 <ericP> ... just want to call them what they are
15:55:32 <chimezie> then perhaps we should be a little more explicit in the request for what we want (usecase v.s. feature request)
15:55:32 <bijan> (The OWL document is called "new features and rationales"
15:55:42 <ericP> LeeF: agreed. would like to dive straight into features
15:56:11 <ericP> SteveH: when we prioritize, we'll talk about use cases, regardless of whether we write them down
15:56:36 <AndyS> While features are natural/obvious this is OK but if one comes along which the WG as a whole finds unobvious, we need to back off to use cases.
15:56:49 <LeeF> +1 to AndyS_
15:56:53 <SteveH> +1
15:56:53 <ericP> AxelPolleres: template rationale: thought the features we want to add should be driven by practical examples
15:57:07 <iv_an_ru> use cases should be written down at least in our wiki, if not in final docs, because they demonstrate how features "interoperate".
15:57:14 <bijan> Use cases doesn't exhaust...e.g., implementability are also considerations
15:57:17 <ericP> ... had in mind to merge use cases in the 2nd phase
15:57:28 <ericP> ... good feature requests often have a use case around them
15:57:57 <iv_an_ru> Let's think that everything is implementable :)
15:58:01 <bijan> So, new feature: "Awesome feature"; rationale: "here's the intuition", "here's the implementation considerations", "here's some use cases"
15:58:10 <ericP> ... if you a system with .e.g aggregates, add you syntax to that feature
15:58:58 <bijan> Are we all registered in the wiki? If not what do we do?
15:59:21 <SteveH> +1 to calling the features and having a usecase subsection
15:59:27 <ericP> LeeF: let's call them features (tweak the template), add a section for use cases under each feature, and have example syntaxes for the feature
15:59:44 <LukeWM>  +1 to that too
15:59:49 <ywang4> will go offline shortly, have fun :)
15:59:59 <ericP> APPROVED: rename "use cases" to "features"
16:00:10 <Zakim> -Chimezie_Ogbuji
16:00:14 <bijan> Did I miss the in
16:00:18 <ywang4> ywang4 has left #sparql
16:00:25 <bijan> structiosn for getting on the wiki?
16:00:33 <Zakim> -john-l
16:00:53 <bijan> Oh. Ewwwww
16:00:57 <LeeF> I'll send a bunch about this in email
16:01:09 <Zakim> -ywang4
16:02:12 <LeeF> ack AndyS
16:02:12 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask about outside contributions
16:02:26 <AxelPolleres> q-
16:02:52 <ericP> AndyS: what about folks who are not in the group, but plan to join
16:02:58 <ericP> ... ?
16:03:08 <ivan> q+
16:03:09 <ericP> LeeF: would like folks to send to public-rdf-dawg-comments
16:03:35 <LeeF> ack ivan
16:03:39 <bijan> +1 to open solicitation
16:03:40 <SteveH> risks a lot of work sorting out duplicates 
16:03:44 <ericP> AndyS: danger of opening floodgate
16:03:46 <SteveH> but still +1
16:03:50 <bijan> We can always say "no" :)
16:03:59 <LeeF> I'll take the responsibility for sorting out dupes :-)
16:04:10 <AxelPolleres> q+
16:04:25 <bijan> No specification without championiation!
16:04:27 <iv_an_ru> We can invite people to read the wiki before (re)submitting proposals :)
16:04:39 <LeeF> iv_an_ru +1
16:04:53 <AxelPolleres> heavy echo
16:05:04 <Zakim> -EricP
16:05:08 <Zakim> -bijan
16:05:10 <bijan> ta ta
16:05:18 <AxelPolleres> scribenick: AxelPolleres
16:05:48 <AxelPolleres> Ivan: we  can allow input from those who intend to join.
16:05:52 <ericP> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:05:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-minutes.html ericP
16:05:57 <ericP> RRSAgent, please make log world-visible
16:06:14 <AxelPolleres> Lee: Will sned an email on the list to gather as many features as we can by next week.
16:06:19 <iv_an_ru> Even more, implementation providers may announce in their support mailing lists that they collect wishes for SPARQL 2.0 and act as proxies.
16:06:38 <AndyS> SPARQL 1.1 please.  Not 2.0.  It's incremental!
16:06:44 <AxelPolleres> ... Is it appropriate to list that on the blog as well.
16:06:46 <SteveH> +1 to SPARQL 1.1
16:06:48 <AxelPolleres> Ivan: sure.
16:07:03 <iv_an_ru> ok, SPARQL 1.1
16:07:18 <AxelPolleres> Ivan: Next week will be messy, since meeting is one hour earlier!!!
16:07:38 <SteveH> bye
16:07:40 <AxelPolleres> meeting adjourned
16:07:41 <Zakim> -Ori
16:07:43 <Zakim> -daveNewman
16:07:44 <Zakim> -[Garlik]
16:07:44 <Zakim> -ivan
16:07:44 <Zakim> -LeeF
16:07:46 <Zakim> -iv_an_ru
16:07:49 <Zakim> -kasei
16:07:51 <Zakim> -Souri_Das
16:07:53 <Zakim> -terraces
16:07:59 <AxelPolleres> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:07:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-minutes.html AxelPolleres
16:08:22 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:08:30 <AxelPolleres> RRSAgent, list attendees
16:08:30 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'list attendees', AxelPolleres.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:08:38 <LeeF> AxelPolleres, do you want to try to follow the scribe instructions, or would you like me to?
16:08:38 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, list attendees
16:08:38 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been LeeF, kasei, AndyS, +1.216.445.aaaa, iv_an_ru, bijan, [Garlik], Chimezie_Ogbuji, john-l, terraces, AxelPolleres, ivan, +656304aabb, ywang4,
16:08:42 <Zakim> ... +1.603.897.aacc, Souri, EricP, Ori, daveNewman, Souri_Das
16:08:43 <AxelPolleres> RRSAgent, list attendees
16:08:43 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'list attendees', AxelPolleres.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:08:45 <AxelPolleres> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:08:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-minutes.html AxelPolleres
16:08:57 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
16:08:59 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
16:09:01 <Zakim> Attendees were LeeF, kasei, AndyS, +1.216.445.aaaa, iv_an_ru, bijan, [Garlik], Chimezie_Ogbuji, john-l, terraces, AxelPolleres, ivan, +656304aabb, ywang4, +1.603.897.aacc, Souri,
16:09:03 <Zakim> ... EricP, Ori, daveNewman, Souri_Das
16:11:12 <LukeWM_> LukeWM_ has joined #sparql
16:11:23 <SteveH> SteveH has joined #sparql
16:12:05 <LeeF> ok, I'm on the minutes, plus sending variety of emails to people
16:12:13 <LeeF> but not for a few hours :D
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