Chatlog 2012-12-11

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14:59:49 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
14:59:49 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/12/11-sparql-irc
14:59:51 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:59:51 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
14:59:53 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
14:59:53 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:59:54 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:59:54 <trackbot> Date: 11 December 2012
15:00:08 <AxelPolleres> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-12-11
15:00:15 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-12-11
15:00:33 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
15:00:39 <Zakim> +??P5
15:00:41 <Zakim> +??P3
15:00:44 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P5 is me
15:00:44 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
15:00:45 <Zakim> +kasei
15:00:46 <cbuilara> zakim, mute me
15:00:46 <Zakim> cbuilara should now be muted
15:00:58 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P3 is me
15:00:58 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
15:01:03 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql
15:01:06 <Zakim> + +43.12.aaaa
15:01:21 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aaaa is me
15:01:22 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres; got it
15:01:38 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, sho is on the phone?
15:01:38 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, AxelPolleres.
15:01:44 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see bglimm, cbuilara (muted), kasei, AxelPolleres
15:01:56 <Zakim> +pgearon
15:02:00 <chimezie_> chimezie_ has joined #sparql
15:02:34 <Zakim> +chimezie_
15:02:35 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see bglimm, cbuilara (muted), kasei, AxelPolleres, pgearon, chimezie_
15:02:45 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aabb
15:02:49 <AxelPolleres> regrets: AndyS, Sandro
15:02:55 <chimezie_> Zakim, mute me
15:02:55 <Zakim> chimezie_ should now be muted
15:02:56 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see bglimm, cbuilara (muted), kasei, AxelPolleres, pgearon, chimezie_ (muted), +1.603.897.aabb
15:02:58 <MattPerry> zakim, aabb is me
15:02:59 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it
15:03:17 <Zakim> +LeeF
15:03:44 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin
15:04:03 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, pick a victim?
15:04:03 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, AxelPolleres.
15:04:04 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:04:07 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, pick a victim
15:04:07 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose pgearon
15:04:36 <cbuilara> I can do it
15:04:43 <AxelPolleres> scribe: carlos
15:04:54 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-12-04
15:05:04 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: approve minutes, objections?
15:05:15 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-12-04
15:05:38 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: any regrets for next week?
15:05:44 <AxelPolleres> regrets from me for next week
15:05:49 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: me
15:05:55 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: Sandro
15:06:11 <cbuilara> Sandro: regrets for me too
15:06:16 <AxelPolleres> topic: approval of test cases
15:06:29 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: enatilment
15:06:30 <AxelPolleres> Entailment (cf. ACTION-729, ACTION-716)
15:06:47 <bglimm> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0199.html
15:07:09 <bglimm> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0200.html
15:07:17 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: doesn't include RIF tests
15:07:31 <cbuilara> s/AxelPolleres/bglimm
15:07:44 <sandro> 199 is non rif, 200 is rif
15:08:07 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: all test cases discussed are passed by 2 implementations?
15:08:09 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve test cases as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0199.html
15:08:09 <cbuilara> bglimm: yes
15:08:16 <bglimm> +1
15:08:18 <AxelPolleres> +1
15:08:18 <chimezie_> +1
15:08:20 <sandro> +1
15:08:22 <cbuilara> +1
15:08:23 <MattPerry> +1
15:08:27 <LeeF> +1
15:08:28 <pgearon> +1
15:08:29 <kasei> +1
15:08:39 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approve test cases as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0199.html
15:09:04 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: birte to approve test cases as per resolution in this telco
15:09:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-730 - Approve test cases as per resolution in this telco [on Birte Glimm - due 2012-12-18].
15:09:18 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: RIF test cases
15:09:21 <chimezie_> Zakim, unmute me
15:09:21 <Zakim> chimezie_ should no longer be muted
15:09:37 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: 4 test cases that now pass
15:09:49 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: the non pass test cases are RIF02 and =5
15:09:58 <cbuilara> s/=5/05
15:10:15 <sandro> AxelPolleres, rif02 depends on rif-in-rdf which is not rec track, so we can't have it be normative.    (ER does not require it)
15:10:46 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: suggest to approve test cases in the RIF email
15:10:57 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve test cases as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0200.html
15:10:59 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0200.html
15:11:00 <sandro> +1
15:11:06 <pgearon> +1
15:11:06 <cbuilara> +1
15:11:07 <bglimm> +1
15:11:10 <MattPerry> +1
15:11:14 <chimezie_> +1
15:11:20 <kasei> +1
15:11:26 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approve test cases as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0200.html
15:12:07 <cbuilara> chimezie_: no hope for another implementation passing the tests
15:12:54 <chimezie_> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/IRI_from_RDF_Literal
15:13:02 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: is any of the other test cases testing RIF building
15:13:29 <cbuilara> chimezie_: the import RDF from RIF and building
15:13:42 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: no hope that we can go forward with these tests
15:14:04 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: go ahead with only those tests that we approved now to PR
15:14:30 <LeeF> I think it's a probably unreasonably high bar that SPARQL-RIF conformance is dependent on full RIF Core conformance -- I think it's helpful to keep those two things loosely coupled
15:14:41 <sandro> +1
15:14:45 <cbuilara> chimezie_: none of these missing tests have to do with the specification
15:14:49 <pgearon> I agree with Chimezie
15:14:56 <LeeF> yes
15:15:09 <LeeF> it seems reasonable to me to be able to say "I implement RIF-in-SPARQL conformantly; it supports most of RIF except for X and Y"
15:15:37 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: all approved test cases are passed by two implementation so we can proceed
15:15:40 <sandro> AxelPolleres: So it sounds like we've passed the exit criteria for the RIF Core part of ER
15:16:19 <cbuilara> pgearon: two more test cases need to be approved for Update to go for PR
15:17:00 <chimezie_> Zakim, mute me
15:17:00 <Zakim> chimezie_ should now be muted
15:17:11 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/#sparql11-update
15:18:40 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: are these tests passed by 2 implementations?
15:19:42 <pgearon> basic-update/manifest#insert-05
15:19:42 <pgearon> basic-update/manifest#insert-data-same-bnode
15:19:43 <AxelPolleres> basic-update/manifest#insert-data-same-bnode, basic-update/manifest#insert-where-same-bnode, basic-update/manifest#insert-where-same-bnode2, syntax-update-1/manifest#test_54
15:19:44 <pgearon> basic-update/manifest#insert-where-same-bnode
15:19:44 <pgearon> basic-update/manifest#insert-where-same-bnode2
15:19:45 <pgearon> syntax-update-1/manifest#test_54
15:20:31 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: in the implementation report these seem to be passed by more than 2 implementations
15:20:46 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: are these ready for approval or not?
15:20:54 <cbuilara> pgearon: personally I do not know
15:21:25 <cbuilara> kasei: all 4 that are listed in the implementation report are ready to approve, those that do not pass are already covered
15:21:34 <AxelPolleres> insert05 was replaced by insert05a
15:22:21 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: greg to comment out insert05 in manifest
15:22:21 <trackbot> Created ACTION-731 - Comment out insert05 in manifest [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-12-18].
15:22:37 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve test cases basic-update/manifest#insert-data-same-bnode, basic-update/manifest#insert-where-same-bnode, basic-update/manifest#insert-where-same-bnode2, syntax-update-1/manifest#test_54
15:22:52 <kasei> +1
15:23:03 <cbuilara> +1
15:23:06 <sandro> +1
15:23:06 <chimezie_> +1
15:23:07 <LeeF> +1
15:23:07 <bglimm> +1
15:23:10 <MattPerry> +1
15:23:11 <pgearon> +1
15:23:25 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approve test cases basic-update/manifest#insert-data-same-bnode, basic-update/manifest#insert-where-same-bnode, basic-update/manifest#insert-where-same-bnode2, syntax-update-1/manifest#test_54
15:23:57 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: Kasei to mark for approval those test cases
15:24:00 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: greg mark update testcases approved in this telco in the manifest
15:24:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-732 - Mark update testcases approved in this telco in the manifest [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-12-18].
15:24:41 <cbuilara> kasei: missing tests for approval
15:25:06 <bglimm> #get_of_put__empty_graph, #post__empty_graph_to_existing_graph, #put__empty_graph show up as unclassified in the impl. report
15:25:36 <chimezie_> Zakim, unmute me
15:25:36 <Zakim> chimezie_ should no longer be muted
15:25:46 <chimezie_> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-12-04#GSP
15:25:51 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-11-27#resolution_3
15:25:57 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: we have approved test cases here
15:26:23 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: which ones would be left?
15:26:56 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: can we approve them?
15:27:10 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: no second implementation available
15:27:30 <cbuilara> kasei: can we removed these unapproved tests from the manifest?
15:27:52 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: we can comment them out
15:28:06 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: chime to comment/rmeove  unapproved GSP test cases in themanifest
15:28:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-733 - Comment/rmeove  unapproved GSP test cases in themanifest [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2012-12-18].
15:28:13 <chimezie_> Zakim, mute me
15:28:13 <Zakim> chimezie_ should now be muted
15:28:20 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: anything more on test cases?
15:28:33 <AxelPolleres> q?
15:28:46 <cbuilara> pgearon: test 54 passes on Fuseki
15:29:06 <cbuilara> pgearon: syntax test 54
15:30:09 <cbuilara> pgearon: that test is supposed to fail
15:30:23 <cbuilara> pgearon: it won't pass
15:30:54 <AxelPolleres> www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/
15:30:55 <LeeF> Seems ok to me
15:30:56 <cbuilara> kasei: we have 4 implementations doing the right thing, 1 that there isn't
15:31:32 <AxelPolleres> syntax-update-1/manifest#test_54
15:31:56 <LeeF> What's the issue here? :)
15:33:02 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
15:33:02 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
15:33:11 <AxelPolleres> topic: publications
15:33:21 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
15:33:21 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
15:33:43 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/ (SPARQL1.1 Graph Store HTTP Protocol) as PR
15:33:46 <chimezie_> Zakim, unmute me
15:33:46 <Zakim> chimezie_ should no longer be muted
15:33:52 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: vote for Graph Store protocol to go for PR
15:33:53 <sandro> +1 (W3C)
15:33:53 <AxelPolleres> q?
15:33:54 <chimezie_> +q
15:34:09 <chimezie_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2012Dec/0048.html
15:34:27 <cbuilara> chimezie_: David Wood email about requirements of LD protocol and GS Protocol
15:35:10 <cbuilara> chimezie_: personal email
15:35:44 <LeeF> sandro, do you know anything about this?
15:35:45 <LeeF> ah
15:35:54 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: I do not see the point on dicussing that
15:36:27 <cbuilara> Sandro: we talked about that one year ago, there is no harm in proceeding
15:36:34 <LeeF> Let me see if I can reach David W on IRC in the next 5 minutes while we pursue othe rbusiness
15:36:38 <AxelPolleres> +1 in no harm on proceeding with GSP.
15:36:43 <bglimm> +1 (Ulm)
15:36:53 <chimezie_> +1 (IE)
15:36:54 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: the proposal stands
15:36:55 <AxelPolleres> +1 (siemens)
15:36:58 <cbuilara> +1
15:37:00 <MattPerry> +1 (Oracle)
15:37:02 <pgearon> +1
15:37:09 <Zakim> -LeeF
15:37:23 <kasei> +1
15:37:27 <sandro> waiting for Lee
15:37:31 <Zakim> +LeeF
15:38:03 <sandro> holding for Lee to try to reach David Wood
15:38:22 <AxelPolleres> we hold with 8 +1 votes, no objection.
15:38:42 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/protocol-1.1/ (SPARQL1.1 Protocol) as PR modulo completion of ACTION-725
15:38:47 <sandro> action-725?
15:38:48 <trackbot> ACTION-725 -- Gregory Williams to answer to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Nov/0010.html and implement requested editorial fix. -- due 2012-12-11 -- OPEN
15:38:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/725
15:39:24 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: comments on protocol we discussed last time, getting reply
15:39:31 <kasei> reply is here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Dec/0002.html
15:39:52 <cbuilara> kasei: that was an editorial comment
15:40:03 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: what about the other comments?
15:40:26 <LeeF> That comment is irrelevant
15:40:28 <LeeF> I did write a response
15:40:36 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-725
15:40:36 <trackbot> ACTION-725 Answer to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Nov/0010.html and implement requested editorial fix. closed
15:40:41 <cbuilara> kasei: PH1 is not applicable to this protocol (had to do with WSDL i.e. Portocol 1.0)
15:40:48 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/protocol-1.1/ (SPARQL1.1 Protocol) as PR
15:40:51 <sandro> +1
15:40:53 <kasei> s/PH1/TH-1/
15:40:54 <cbuilara> +1
15:40:55 <AxelPolleres> +1 (siemens)
15:40:55 <kasei> +1
15:40:56 <bglimm> +1 (UUlm)
15:41:00 <MattPerry> +1 (Oracle)
15:41:01 <chimezie_> +1 (IE)
15:41:19 <chimezie_> Zakim, mute me
15:41:19 <Zakim> chimezie_ should now be muted
15:41:29 <pgearon> +1 (revelytix)
15:42:05 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/protocol-1.1/ (SPARQL1.1 Protocol) as PR
15:42:15 <AxelPolleres> no objections, no abstentions
15:42:27 <LeeF> Not yet.
15:42:50 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/ (SPARQL1.1 Entailment Regimes) as PR (removing AT RISK for any entailment regimes where we reach the exist criterion by christmas, and leaving the other AT RISK entailment regimes as "informative")
15:43:13 <pgearon> +q
15:43:27 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/ (SPARQL1.1 Entailment Regimes) as PR (removing AT RISK for any entailment regimes marked in the CR version)
15:43:42 <chimezie_> earlier
15:43:49 <sandro> queue=pgearon
15:43:52 <AxelPolleres> ack chimezie_
15:43:59 <sandro> +1 (W3C)
15:44:03 <kasei> +1
15:44:05 <bglimm> +1 (UUlm)
15:44:07 <pgearon> +1 (revelytix)
15:44:07 <cbuilara> +1
15:44:08 <AxelPolleres> +1 (siemens)
15:44:08 <MattPerry> +1 (Oracle)
15:44:08 <chimezie_> +1 (IE) ��
15:44:26 <LeeF> +1
15:44:42 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/ (SPARQL1.1 Entailment Regimes) as PR (removing AT RISK for any entailment regimes marked in the CR version)
15:44:53 <AxelPolleres> no objections, no abstentions
15:45:49 <pgearon> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Dec/0001.html
15:46:15 <cbuilara> pgearon: wondering if we have to response a formal response to comments by D Wood
15:46:18 <LeeF> +1 to greg
15:46:33 <pgearon> s/D Wood/L Dodds/
15:46:42 <cbuilara> s/D Wood/L Doods
15:46:42 <AxelPolleres> greg was about to write a response to get this closed by next week
15:47:14 <LeeF> Nothing new, let's move ahead
15:48:35 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: we are up to date on the comments page
15:48:39 <AxelPolleres> comments page looks up-to-date to me.
15:48:47 <LeeF> Nothing from David, so let's move ahead
15:48:59 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/ (SPARQL1.1 Graph Store HTTP Protocol) as PR
15:49:00 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: back to earlier proposal of GSP to P>R
15:49:09 <cbuilara> s/P>R/PR/
15:49:13 <bglimm> +1 (UUlm)
15:49:16 <chimezie_> +1 (IE)
15:49:21 <sandro> +1 (W3C)
15:49:21 <cbuilara> +1
15:49:26 <MattPerry> +1 (Oracle)
15:49:28 <AxelPolleres> we had 8 +1 already before, if I counted correctly
15:49:28 <pgearon> +1 (revelytix)
15:49:35 <AxelPolleres> +1 (Siemens)
15:49:37 <chimezie_> s/personal email/WG email
15:49:41 <LeeF> +1
15:49:51 <kasei> +1 (RPI)
15:50:05 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/ (SPARQL1.1 Graph Store HTTP Protocol) as PR
15:50:15 <sandro> congratulations all!!!!
15:50:19 <chimezie_> yay
15:50:37 <LeeF> way to go, everyone
15:50:41 <chimezie_>  I muted my loud celebration :)
15:51:43 <chimezie_> Zakim, unmute me
15:51:43 <Zakim> chimezie_ was not muted, chimezie_
15:51:55 <cbuilara> bglimm: do we have to do something with the documents?
15:52:00 <cbuilara> Sandro: remove at risk
15:52:06 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: birte to take out AT RISK notes from entailment
15:52:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-734 - Take out AT RISK notes from entailment [on Birte Glimm - due 2012-12-18].
15:53:05 <cbuilara> LeeF: I'm impressed for the people in the group, their quality, strong group of engaging, hard work
15:53:14 <sandro> +1  so many capable and engaged people making this happen!   thanks all!
15:53:25 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: I cannot add much to that, greetings
15:53:46 <sandro> +1 thanks to Lee and Axel!
15:53:59 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: anything more to do in the process side?
15:54:02 <kasei> yes, thanks Lee and Axel
15:54:07 <pgearon> +1 thanks Lee and Axel
15:54:29 <cbuilara> Sandro: procedurally the group does not have anything to do
15:54:51 <Zakim> -chimezie_
15:54:51 <pgearon> bye all
15:54:53 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:54:55 <cbuilara> bye and merry Christmas!
15:54:56 <AxelPolleres> everybody a big thanks again!!!
15:54:58 <Zakim> -pgearon
15:55:00 <MattPerry> bye
15:55:05 <Zakim> -kasei
15:55:05 <chimezie_> Take care ppl
15:55:06 <Zakim> -MattPerry
15:55:09 <Zakim> -LeeF
15:55:10 <Zakim> -cbuilara
15:55:21 <AxelPolleres> next week's meeting cancelled.
15:56:37 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
15:57:13 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, make records public
15:57:13 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make records public', AxelPolleres
15:57:26 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public
15:59:15 <kasei> we ended with only 46 open actions :)
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