Chatlog 2012-08-14

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13:59:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:59:26 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/14-sparql-irc
13:59:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:59:28 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
13:59:30 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
13:59:30 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
13:59:31 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:59:31 <trackbot> Date: 14 August 2012
13:59:40 <AxelPolleres> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-08-14
13:59:51 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
13:59:58 <Zakim> +kasei
14:00:12 <Zakim> +??P7
14:00:15 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
14:00:18 <AndyS> zakim, ??P7 is me
14:00:18 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:00:26 <Zakim> +sandro
14:00:48 <Zakim> + +49.897.aaaa
14:00:58 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql
14:01:02 <Zakim> +pgearon
14:01:09 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aaaa might be me
14:01:09 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aaaa might be me', AxelPolleres
14:01:20 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aaaa is me
14:01:20 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres; got it
14:01:31 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:01:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, AndyS, sandro, AxelPolleres, pgearon
14:01:55 <AxelPolleres> scribe: sandro
14:02:59 <Zakim> +MattPerry
14:03:03 <Zakim> +chimezie
14:03:19 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:03:19 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
14:03:24 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-08-14
14:03:36 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin
14:03:46 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-08-07
14:04:20 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-08-07
14:05:02 <AxelPolleres> Mat can scribe next week
14:05:17 <sandro> s/Mat/Matt/
14:05:28 <sandro> topic: RDF Liaison
14:05:32 <sandro> axel: mail from Andy
14:05:34 <AxelPolleres> topic: RDF liasion
14:05:40 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JulSep/0112.html
14:05:42 <sandro> andy: I think the writeup is reasonably complete
14:06:08 <sandro> axel: Our main thing: we don't want to change anything at this point.
14:06:20 <AndyS> See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JulSep/0112.html
14:06:43 <sandro> andy: no formal proposals on the table yet
14:07:16 <sandro> AxelPolleres: From out side, we'd like it in line with Property Path syntax, but otherwise there's nothing for us to say/do
14:07:27 <sandro> AndyS: THe RDF WG isn't seeking comment at this stage.
14:07:43 <AxelPolleres> topic: Finish Protocol validator / test suite
14:07:54 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JulSep/0113.html
14:08:26 <cbuilara> cbuilara has joined #sparql
14:08:51 <Zakim> +??P9
14:08:55 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P9 is me
14:08:55 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
14:08:57 <AxelPolleres> https://github.com/kasei/sparql11-protocolvalidator
14:09:01 <sandro> kasei: I think only Lee and I have looked at these tests so far.
14:09:28 <cbuilara> I can do it
14:10:06 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: carlos to look over protocol test cases for completeness
14:10:06 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - carlos
14:10:48 <sandro> <kasei> http://kasei.us/2009/09/sparql/protocol_validator.cgi is the new url
14:10:48 <sandro> <kasei> so maybe something like http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/protocol_validator ?
14:11:22 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: cbuilara to look over protocol test cases for completeness
14:11:22 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - cbuilara
14:11:49 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to check action for carlos (cbuilara to look over protocol test cases for completeness)
14:11:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-668 - Check action for carlos (cbuilara to look over protocol test cases for completeness) [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-08-21].
14:12:12 <sandro> action: carlos to look over protocol test cases for completeness
14:12:12 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - carlos
14:12:19 <cbuilara> zakim, mute me
14:12:19 <Zakim> cbuilara should now be muted
14:12:32 <sandro> Oh, right -- Carlos isn't in the WG right now.
14:13:09 <sandro> kasei: Fuseki not that close to passing right now
14:13:13 <AxelPolleres> sandro, yeah sent you a mail on that... let's take this offline with carlos
14:13:35 <sandro> AxelPolleres, I send email to Carlos and cc'd you 25 minutes ago.
14:14:08 <sandro> AndyS: Updates should be okay.   If there's a published dataset, ... something ...  default graph URI.
14:14:21 <sandro> kasei: The protocol has ways you can rename graphs to be the defautl graph for matching
14:14:26 <sandro> AndyS: That stuff should work.
14:14:50 <sandro> kasei: I'll send you details and lets sort this out
14:14:54 <sandro> AndyS: okay.
14:15:23 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
14:15:23 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted
14:15:32 <AxelPolleres> topic: update implementations
14:15:40 <sandro> axel: Entailment Regimes?
14:15:46 <sandro> chimezie: I don't have an update on that
14:15:47 <AxelPolleres> s/update/entailment/
14:16:42 <AxelPolleres> sandro: mentioned this in SWCG meeting last week... Ian horrocks offered to ping potential implementers for DL regimes.
14:16:59 <AxelPolleres> we should ping thre RIF mailinglist...
14:17:06 <sandro> action: sandro ping RIF folks on ER
14:17:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-669 - Ping RIF folks on ER [on Sandro Hawke - due 2012-08-21].
14:17:17 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: sandro to ping RIF WG mailinglist on SPARQL/RIF implementations.
14:17:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-670 - Ping RIF WG mailinglist on SPARQL/RIF implementations. [on Sandro Hawke - due 2012-08-21].
14:17:31 <sandro> close aciton-5
14:17:38 <sandro> close action-5
14:17:38 <trackbot> ACTION-5 Add security issues to query by reference feature closed
14:17:43 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:17:43 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
14:17:49 <AxelPolleres> topic: comments
14:17:53 <sandro> close action-669
14:17:53 <trackbot> ACTION-669 Ping RIF folks on ER closed
14:18:08 <sandro> axel: starting with older comments
14:18:18 <AxelPolleres> comments http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments
14:18:35 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JulSep/0114.html
14:19:07 <sandro> James Leigh.   Sandro wanted to look into that....
14:19:40 <sandro> axel: Old one from Jeremy Carroll, re graph protocol, URI to IRI
14:19:48 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
14:19:48 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted
14:19:50 <sandro> axel: Paragraph gone, outdated.
14:19:59 <sandro> chimezie: I just need to ping Jeremy
14:20:24 <sandro> axel: kk-13
14:20:46 <sandro> axel: I think it's ready to send.
14:20:52 <sandro> chimezie: sent and ack'd.
14:20:59 <sandro> chimezie: I just updated the wiki now.
14:21:35 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:21:35 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
14:21:52 <sandro> axel: Long response draft to Dave Becket, outdated, short one should do.  I'll ping Steve
14:22:34 <sandro> andy: that one is sent
14:22:37 <sandro> axel: Ah right.
14:23:33 <sandro> axel: Comments on PP's from Nick Humphrey
14:24:02 <sandro> axel: Inform reply from Andy, er, Steve, saying this can be done with Aggregrate.    
14:24:15 <sandro> andy: Expept it says not a formal response.  :-)
14:24:32 <sandro> axel: I'll ping Nick on formal response status.
14:24:57 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to ping Nick on whether NH-5 needs a formal response
14:24:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-671 - Ping Nick on whether NH-5 needs a formal response [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-08-21].
14:25:00 <sandro> AndyS: He's just looking at PP syntax, not having read some bits elsewhere in the spec.
14:25:19 <sandro> AndyS: I'll do NH-4
14:26:13 <sandro> axel: Some comments on client semantics.  Maybe reply to them together
14:26:46 <AxelPolleres> BIND in combination with other graph patterns...
14:26:47 <sandro> andy: I looked.  They only consider part of the problem space.    Their case always has bind next to something else, not a BGP.    This needs some thought.
14:27:13 <AxelPolleres> looks like these queries need a subselect.
14:27:19 <sandro> andy: Perhaps a different form of query, using a subselect, would help.
14:27:44 <sandro> axel: Do we need to change something?
14:28:39 <sandro> andy: Holger's point could maybe be seen one way, Jeremy's made things a little more contrained.
14:31:20 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Aug/0011.html
14:31:39 <sandro> axel:  implies std behavior of default graph, which isnt how it works, I think
14:32:15 <sandro> axel: I'll try to find out what he wants
14:32:27 <sandro> andy: lets consider it as a couple of different parts
14:33:11 <sandro> andy: First part usual approach would be not using the word graph.      FROM DEFAULT, FROM <...>  .  In the past we've said if you want that, put your dg in with a name, too.
14:33:52 <sandro> andy: It's not a perfect solution, true
14:34:23 <sandro> andy: If you're using multipl FROMs you're asking for a kind of merge.   You can use GRAPH for that, although it's not pretty.
14:34:50 <AxelPolleres> you can use GRAPH for that, all above that would be Composite_Dataset (cf. posponed features)?
14:35:14 <sandro> AndyS: Greg, does your system offer a choice about what the dg is?
14:35:29 <sandro> kasei: No, I've never offered a union default
14:35:47 <sandro> AndyS: Last thing - year Compisite_Dataset feature.   I don't think it's trivial.
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