Chatlog 2012-06-05

From SPARQL Working Group
Jump to: navigation, search

See original RRSAgent log and preview nicely formatted version.

Please justify/explain all edits to this page, in your "edit summary" text.

13:57:32 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:57:32 <RRSAgent> logging to
13:57:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:57:34 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
13:57:36 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
13:57:36 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:57:37 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:57:38 <trackbot> Date: 05 June 2012
13:58:25 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
13:58:32 <Zakim> +kasei
13:59:04 <Zakim> +pgearon
14:00:36 <AxelPolleres> agenda:
14:00:36 <AxelPolleres> regrets: Andy, Lee
14:01:14 <Zakim> + +49.897.aaaa - is perhaps AxelPolleres?
14:01:24 <Zakim> +Olivier
14:01:54 <AxelPolleres> zakim, aaaa is me
14:01:54 <Zakim> sorry, AxelPolleres, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
14:02:10 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:02:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, AxelPolleres?, Olivier
14:02:16 <Zakim> + +1.512.433.aabb
14:02:21 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, AxelPolleres? is me
14:02:21 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres; got it
14:02:33 <Zakim> +Sandro
14:04:08 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aabb is Arthur
14:04:08 <Zakim> +Arthur; got it
14:04:18 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone.
14:04:18 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', AxelPolleres
14:04:54 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:04:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, AxelPolleres, Olivier, Arthur, Sandro
14:05:43 <AxelPolleres> scribe: pgearon
14:05:46 <cbuilara> cbuilara has joined #sparql
14:05:49 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin
14:06:08 <Zakim> +??P24
14:06:14 <cbuilara> zakim, ??=24 is  me
14:06:14 <Zakim> sorry, cbuilara, I do not recognize a party named '??=24'
14:06:20 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P24 is me
14:06:20 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
14:06:25 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve minutes at
14:06:51 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approve minutes at
14:07:15 <AxelPolleres> next telco one week from now as usual
14:07:30 <AxelPolleres> topic: liaison
14:07:49 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: usual liaison with RDF WG not present. Anyone else from the group here?
14:07:56 <AxelPolleres> no news from related WGs
14:08:15 <AxelPolleres>
14:08:35 <AxelPolleres> topic: actions
14:08:36 <AxelPolleres>
14:09:18 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
14:09:53 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: looking at action-635
14:09:58 <AxelPolleres>  ACTION-635: see
14:09:58 <trackbot> ACTION-635 Draft text for GSP that replaces REST references with HTTP references and send summary/diff to the mailing list notes added
14:10:15 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-635
14:10:18 <Zakim> +Chimezie
14:10:45 <Arthur> Arthur has joined #SPARQL
14:10:56 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: I've closed 635, was that correct?
14:11:01 <pgearon> Chimezie: yes
14:12:03 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: sandro to look over changes in GSP by two weeks from now
14:12:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-636 - Look over changes in GSP by two weeks from now [on Sandro Hawke - due 2012-06-12].
14:12:29 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:12:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, AxelPolleres, Olivier, Arthur, Sandro, cbuilara, Chimezie
14:13:27 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: action-634 to be discussed when LeeF available
14:14:01 <kasei> hopefully self-explanatory:
14:14:37 <Arthur> Arthur has joined #sparql
14:14:43 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: other actions are to draft a response. Haven't been seen yet
14:14:55 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:14:55 <Zakim> Chimezie should now be muted
14:15:08 <kasei>
14:15:09 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: what about action-625?
14:15:19 <pgearon> kasei: that is done. Email sent
14:15:23 <AxelPolleres>  ACTION-625: see
14:15:23 <trackbot> ACTION-625 Look at changes to or adding new STRBEFORE/STRAFTER tests to reflect updated behavior of error case (empty string, no language tag) notes added
14:15:30 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-625
14:15:30 <trackbot> ACTION-625 Look at changes to or adding new STRBEFORE/STRAFTER tests to reflect updated behavior of error case (empty string, no language tag) closed
14:15:37 <pgearon> kasei: a bunch of those actions can be closed
14:16:40 <AxelPolleres> "strbefore01a and strafter01a are meant to replace the existing strbefore01 and strafter01 tests.
14:16:41 <AxelPolleres> strbefore02 and strafter02 are new."
14:17:10 <pgearon> kasei: AndyS ran these, but this is in private chat, so no record
14:17:15 <AxelPolleres> approve next time, get report for running them correctly by next time.
14:17:31 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: get record of 2 implementations for next time
14:17:51 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: action-621 can probably be closed as well
14:18:27 <AxelPolleres>
14:18:30 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
14:18:30 <Zakim> Chimezie should no longer be muted
14:18:31 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: was that reply for JL-3 sent?
14:19:01 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-621
14:19:01 <trackbot> ACTION-621 Contact Chime on when to talk about JL-3 closed
14:19:12 <pgearon> chimezie: was waiting on discussion on list
14:20:13 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:20:13 <Zakim> Chimezie should now be muted
14:20:23 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: action-620, I did contact Carlos
14:20:43 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-620
14:20:43 <trackbot> ACTION-620 Contact carlos to implement change from BINDINGS to VALUES in Fed-query for PR closed
14:21:10 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: action-618 also done
14:21:17 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-618
14:21:18 <trackbot> ACTION-618 Propose fix in definition of "in-scope" for BIND, cf. closed
14:21:43 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: action-617 on Sandro
14:21:53 <pgearon> Sandro: still haven't done that
14:24:12 <pgearon> did action-615, but asked AndyS about some confusing items which led to fixes in query document. Can post this with fixes today
14:24:14 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-578
14:24:14 <trackbot> ACTION-578 Talk with Lee about putting a test system in place to test endpoints for protocol and service description conformance closed
14:24:28 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-628
14:24:28 <trackbot> ACTION-628 Complete specification of protocol tests at closed
14:24:29 <pgearon> kasei: done a bunch of actions already and these can be closed
14:24:40 <Zakim> -Arthur
14:24:59 <AxelPolleres>  ACTION-630: first draft done
14:25:06 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-630
14:25:13 <trackbot> ACTION-630 Complete implementation of validator pending completion of ACTION-628 notes added
14:25:14 <trackbot> ACTION-630 Complete implementation of validator pending completion of ACTION-628 closed
14:25:20 <kasei> SD validator docs:
14:25:32 <AxelPolleres>  ACTION-632: documented at
14:25:32 <trackbot> ACTION-632 Document what the service description validator tests notes added
14:25:39 <bglimm> bglimm has joined #sparql
14:25:47 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-632
14:25:47 <trackbot> ACTION-632 Document what the service description validator tests closed
14:26:13 <Zakim> +??P4
14:26:23 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P4 is me
14:26:23 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
14:26:28 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:26:28 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:27:15 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-590
14:27:15 <trackbot> ACTION-590 Confirm removal of test cases move05 and copy05 per email closed
14:29:26 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-585
14:29:27 <trackbot> ACTION-585 Suggest some fixing of the wording regarding COPY/MOVE equivalent operations (reagrding atomicity and remarking that some are no-op) and about failure on empty graphs closed
14:30:30 <AxelPolleres> topic:
14:32:49 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
14:32:49 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
14:32:54 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: want to talk about entailment
14:33:05 <pgearon> topic: entailment
14:33:14 <AxelPolleres>
14:33:22 <AxelPolleres> no changes since last call...
14:33:26 <pgearon> bglimm: no reviewers assigned, but no changes since last call
14:33:54 <pgearon> bglimm: no acknowledgment from Michael Schneider
14:34:06 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: ping Michael, but should be OK otherwise
14:34:37 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
14:34:37 <Zakim> Chimezie should no longer be muted
14:34:50 <pgearon> bglimm: Michael Schneider wants to implement all, Talis to do some, Jeff Pan to do some....
14:35:19 <pgearon> sandro: should we tell them our deadline? Or ask them what their timeframe is?
14:35:29 <pgearon> bglimm: maybe was can ask them
14:35:57 <pgearon> sandro: we should let them know our timeframe is short
14:36:27 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: we need some response, because this is the area where we have the least idea of what's going on
14:36:52 <pgearon> bglimm: chimezie and I are the ones in the group doing this work
14:37:08 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: birte to reach out to Entailment implementers about status/schedule of their implementations, tell them that we plan within a month
14:37:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-637 - Reach out to Entailment implementers about status/schedule of their implementations, tell them that we plan within a month [on Birte Glimm - due 2012-06-12].
14:37:12 <pgearon> bglimm: I don't have time for implementing right now
14:37:22 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:37:22 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:37:30 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: let implementors know that we need something within a month, if they're going to do it
14:37:32 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
14:37:32 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
14:37:54 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: only have template on PR page, so adding comment would be good
14:37:55 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:37:55 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:38:02 <pgearon> bglimm: will do that now
14:38:04 <AxelPolleres> subtopic: federated query
14:38:18 <pgearon> cbuilara: only one comment last week
14:38:43 <pgearon> cbuilara: 2 tests. Tried to finish everything for To_PR
14:39:04 <AxelPolleres>
14:39:51 <pgearon> cbuilara: only change was on BINDINGS changed to VALUES
14:40:11 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:40:11 <Zakim> Chimezie should now be muted
14:40:25 <pgearon> subtopic: results formats
14:40:53 <AxelPolleres> nothing new
14:40:57 <AxelPolleres> topic: comments
14:40:59 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: unless someone has more on To_PR page we can move to something new
14:41:21 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: on comments list. Comment by TBL?
14:41:35 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: not sure if we're expected to react and how
14:41:42 <AxelPolleres>
14:42:22 <sandro> sandro: I read that as being primarily to the RDF WG.
14:42:24 <pgearon> sandro: this is really for the RDF WG, since it's about Turtle comments. It's relevant to us, but the RDF WG is the lead
14:42:56 <pgearon> sandro: we can formally say that we're not planning on adding multi-line comments
14:43:38 <pgearon> sandro: TBL was responding to someone else asking for these comments, so this would not be refuting TBL
14:43:58 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: will you send this quick response please
14:44:56 <AxelPolleres>
14:45:10 <AxelPolleres>
14:46:34 <pgearon> kasei: SD offers a way to say that you dereference URLs
14:47:02 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: send an email explaining, and say that this is an informal response, do you require a formal one?
14:47:09 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: greg to informally reply on pointing to SD and asking whether formal response is needed.
14:47:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-638 - Informally reply on pointing to SD and asking whether formal response is needed. [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-06-12].
14:49:38 <AxelPolleres> topic: interplay of aggregates
14:49:38 <AxelPolleres>
14:50:21 <pgearon> pgearon: q to kasei - is there a way to use SD to describe only dereferencing a URL if there is no existing graph with that name? This is Mulgara's behavior
14:50:58 <pgearon> kasei: not really. This sounds like dereferencing, but with more specificity. Looking to see how the community uses these descriptions to see which direction to take it in future
14:51:02 <AxelPolleres> SELECT  AVG(?x * MAX (?y) )
14:51:19 <AxelPolleres> SELECT (max(?x) As ?M) (avg(?M+1) AS ?A)
14:51:28 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: question was if this should be allowed or not
14:51:43 <pgearon> +q
14:52:02 <AxelPolleres> ack pgearon
14:52:14 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: want quick opinions today
14:52:51 <AxelPolleres> paul: andy reported that disallowing would be ok, as subqueries allow it 
14:53:11 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: does anyone want to allow this?
14:53:23 <kasei> it should be disallowed.
14:53:27 <bglimm> I think it makes the algebra unnecessarily complicated
14:53:31 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: is there consensus to disallow?
14:53:55 <AxelPolleres> strawpoll: Disallow nested aggregates (given the understanding that it can be done in subqueries if needed)
14:53:39 <bglimm> +1 to disallow
14:53:44 <pgearon> +1 to disallow
14:53:52 <chimezie> +0 not sufficiently swapped in to conversation

14:53:57 <Olivier> 0
14:54:01 <cbuilara> 0
14:54:09 <AxelPolleres> +1
14:54:10 <kasei> +1 to disallow
14:54:20 <pgearon> I think it makes algebra more complicated without benefit. No legitimate use cases were presented in the conversation
14:55:05 <AxelPolleres> olivier: no strong position, no objection either
14:55:27 <pgearon> Also, it was pointed out that subqueries make it clearer what is being requested. Sub-aggregates in the select clause are much less clear
14:55:47 <AxelPolleres> I tend to agree on that point, paul.
14:55:47 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: any other business?
14:55:50 <AxelPolleres> AOB?
14:56:00 <AxelPolleres> adjourned
14:56:02 <Zakim> -Chimezie
14:56:11 <Zakim> -Sandro
14:56:12 <Zakim> -Olivier
14:56:13 <Zakim> -bglimm
14:56:15 <Zakim> -cbuilara
14:56:18 <Zakim> -pgearon
14:56:19 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public
14:56:22 <Zakim> -kasei
14:56:41 <AxelPolleres> paul thanks for scribing, will you do common-scribe minutes?
14:56:52 <AxelPolleres> bye all
14:56:58 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
14:57:00 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
14:57:00 <Zakim> Attendees were kasei, pgearon, +49.897.aaaa, Olivier, +1.512.433.aabb, AxelPolleres, Sandro, Arthur, cbuilara, Chimezie, bglimm
14:57:04 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has left #sparql
15:04:08 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #sparql
16:52:56 <Zakim> Zakim has left #sparql