Chatlog 2012-04-24

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14:00:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
14:00:13 <RRSAgent> logging to
14:00:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:00:17 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
14:00:17 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now
14:00:18 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:00:18 <trackbot> Date: 24 April 2012
14:01:10 <sandro> zakim, this is 77277
14:01:10 <Zakim> ok, sandro; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM
14:01:15 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
14:01:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, Sandro, ??P9
14:01:21 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql
14:01:30 <Zakim> + +
14:01:37 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P9 is me
14:01:43 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
14:01:44 <Olivier_> zakim, aaaa is me
14:01:56 <Zakim> +Olivier_; got it
14:02:05 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:02:06 <Zakim> +??P15
14:02:09 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P15 is me
14:02:23 <Zakim> +MattPerry
14:02:24 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:02:26 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
14:03:17 <sandro> agenda:
14:03:33 <sandro>
14:03:42 <sandro> chair: sandro
14:03:49 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
14:03:49 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
14:04:17 <kasei> it's somewhat up to date
14:04:49 <sandro> scribe: Olivier_ 
14:05:35 <Zakim> +??P26
14:05:41 <Olivier_> test suites
14:05:41 <AndyS> zakim, ?P26 is me
14:05:41 <Zakim> sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named '?P26'
14:05:45 <Olivier_> comments
14:05:46 <AndyS> zakim, ??P26 is me
14:05:46 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:06:07 <sandro> Agenda+ publishing overview
14:06:12 <sandro> agenda+ Comments
14:06:19 <sandro> Agenda+ Test Suite
14:07:03 <kasei> dig up what?
14:07:26 <bglimm>
14:07:52 <kasei>
14:08:10 <sandro> proposed: approve minutes from last meeting
14:08:18 <kasei> +1
14:08:22 <AndyS> +1
14:08:24 <bglimm> +1
14:08:33 <sandro> resolved: approve minutes from last meeting
14:08:39 <sandro> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:08:39 <Zakim> agendum 1. "publishing overview" taken up [from sandro]
14:09:17 <Olivier_> overview ok but some references
14:09:24 <sandro> sandro: I think we're good to go except for the references
14:09:44 <kasei>
14:10:33 <Olivier_> link to using rdf 1.1
14:10:54 <sandro> 2009/sparql/using-with-rdf11
14:10:56 <Olivier_> link that we can redirect
14:11:05 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:11:05 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:11:58 <sandro> PROPOSAL: for "with RDF 1.1" will link to 2009/sparql/using-with-rdf1 and mark it AT RISK.
14:12:18 <sandro> PROPOSAL: for "with RDF 1.1" will link to 2009/sparql/using-with-rdf11 and mark it AT RISK.
14:12:25 <kasei> +1
14:12:28 <MattPerry> +1
14:12:30 <bglimm> +1
14:12:39 <sandro> RESOLVED: for "with RDF 1.1" will link to 2009/sparql/using-with-rdf11 and mark it AT RISK.
14:12:45 <sandro> @@@Shall this document also link to the test suite?
14:13:16 <Olivier_> link to readme.html ?
14:13:36 <sandro> 
14:13:57 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
14:13:57 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
14:14:23 <Olivier_> change the title to test case or test suite
14:15:00 <sandro> PROPOSED: Overview link to for Test Suite, and we try to get that page looking better soon.
14:15:11 <kasei> +1 so long as we know the readme still needs work to reflect the current state of the test suite.
14:15:11 <bglimm> +1
14:15:15 <Olivier_> +1
14:15:19 <cbuilara> +1
14:15:50 <sandro> RESOLVED: Overview link to for Test Suite, and we try to get that page looking better soon.
14:16:24 <sandro> ACTION: kasei put a visible box near the top of to highlight what's out of date and where else folks should look for now.
14:16:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-609 - Put a visible box near the top of to highlight what's out of date and where else folks should look for now. [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-05-01].
14:17:05 <bglimm>  CSV: @@@needs to be checked with final versions of CSV/TSV doc.
14:19:13 <sandro> noted we think CSV and TSV examples are okay.
14:19:31 <sandro> andy: TSV uses Turtle/SPARQL terms, so it uses the question marks, quotes, etc.
14:19:45 <sandro> andy: (unlike CSV)
14:20:07 <sandro> andy: we're not expecting CSV to go through a Turtle Parser, just a spreadsheet.
14:21:24 <Olivier_> It was published in november
14:22:17 <sandro> sandro: confiming overview is Rec Track
14:22:46 <Olivier_> @@@Need to declare references to non rec specs non-normative? 				
14:23:26 <sandro> sandro: lets just remove 
14:23:26 <sandro> @@@Need to declare references to non rec specs non-normative?
14:23:26 <sandro> 				
14:23:46 <sandro> hearing agreement
14:24:42 <Olivier_>  Turtle: @@@This reference needs to be fixed, once RDF 1.1 publishes a new Turtle Rec.
14:26:06 <sandro> FIX- Paul Gearon, Invited Expert
14:26:06 <sandro> FIX- Birte Glimm, Oxford University Computing Laboratory 
14:26:06 <sandro> FIX- * cbuilara I no longer belong to UPM, I finished my phd and I moved
14:26:37 <sandro> FIX- Turtle reference to TR/Turtle, and name it as Working Draft
14:27:07 <sandro> FIX- CVS History
14:27:40 <sandro> PROPOSED: Publish as Last Call Working Draft, after making the changes agreed upon so far this meeting.
14:27:44 <sandro> +1
14:27:54 <kasei> +1
14:27:59 <AndyS> +1
14:28:00 <bglimm> +1
14:28:02 <Olivier_> +1
14:28:06 <cbuilara> +1
14:28:06 <MattPerry> +1
14:28:19 <sandro> RESOLVED: Publish as Last Call Working Draft, after making the changes agreed upon so far this meeting.
14:28:51 <sandro> ACTION: sandro make the discussed changes
14:28:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-610 - Make the discussed changes [on Sandro Hawke - due 2012-05-01].
14:29:14 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
14:29:14 <Zakim> bglimm was not muted, bglimm
14:29:17 <sandro> action: birte to make sure Sandro made the changes correctly
14:29:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-611 - Make sure Sandro made the changes correctly [on Birte Glimm - due 2012-05-01].
14:30:40 <kasei> q+
14:30:43 <sandro> Looking at -- " the SPARQL Query Results XML Format (please, particularly note that the SPARQL 1.1 WG has made some minor Errata to this specification),"  and noting there are no Errata listed.
14:30:51 <sandro> ack kasei 
14:31:12 <sandro> kasei: This started as my ACTION-504.  I made the changes but never committed them.
14:32:54 <sandro> action-503?
14:32:54 <trackbot> ACTION-503 -- Axel Polleres to contaxt sandro on whether we're allowed to change xsl in place in the course of errata -- due 2011-08-02 -- OPEN
14:32:54 <trackbot>
14:34:03 <sandro> action-504
14:34:05 <sandro> action-504?
14:34:05 <trackbot> ACTION-504 -- Gregory Williams to incorporate into -- due 2011-08-02 -- OPEN
14:34:05 <trackbot>
14:37:21 <AndyS> My copy says:
14:37:22 <AndyS> > -    <xsl:for-each select="//res:head/res:variable">
14:37:22 <AndyS> > +    <xsl:for-each select="/res:sparql/res:head/res:variable">
14:38:24 <Olivier_>  remove: @@@ this is a placeholder at the moment; note that also the version number for RDF 1.1 might need to be changed!
14:38:56 <sandro> Yes, Olivier_ that's part of 'fixing turtle'.
14:41:46 <sandro> sandro: Let's publsh the Errata Greg has now, labeled with 'PROPOSED' for now.
14:42:09 <sandro> ACTION: kasei check in his version of XML Errata, with [PROPOSED] on each one
14:42:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-612 - Check in his version of XML Errata, with [PROPOSED] on each one [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-05-01].
14:44:25 <sandro> sandro: Let's keep Carlos' old affil since it was the W3C member
14:44:46 <sandro> zakim, take up next agendum
14:44:46 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Comments" taken up [from sandro]
14:44:56 <AndyS>
14:46:56 <sandro> AndyS:We can now respond go DRD-1, saying this is what Turtle and SPARQL are doing, it's a compromise.   I'll take that one.
14:47:09 <sandro> AndyS: other ppath ones.    Come back to BINDINGS.
14:47:44 <sandro> DBeckett-4 ?
14:47:54 <sandro> kasei: I think the work is done, I'll draft a response.
14:49:05 <sandro> DB-21 for Paul or Axel, who are not here
14:49:09 <sandro> DB-22 same.
14:49:16 <sandro> SA-3 on bindings
14:49:59 <sandro> WW-1 on path expressions.    Andy to draft response
14:50:40 <sandro> birte to take SA-3
14:53:02 <sandro> andy: In the WW-1 response I'd like to say a little on how there are choicepoints
14:53:46 <sandro> subtopic: BINDINGS
14:54:11 <sandro> andy: I'd propose we work through whether we can put bindings inside ANY group.    So it's more data.     So it's a syntax change.
14:54:11 <Olivier_> bindings inside any group ?
14:54:41 <sandro> bglimm: It'll also change the algebra.   The processing order will be different
14:55:08 <AndyS> SELECT * { ?s ?p ?o BINDING(...) } 
14:55:12 <sandro> AndyS: But bindings are defined to be something you draw into what you're working on at the time.   A Single BIND operation which adds a column in can be argued to be a join.
14:55:35 <swh> swh has joined #sparql
14:56:23 <sandro> AndyS: So, where we have FILTER we'd also allow BINDING.  And it means, Do th basic graph pattern, do the bind, join with any BINDING table.  Still JOIN semantics rather than SUBSTITUTION.  Which incidentally means you can write it as SUBSITUTION.  It ends up doing the same.  Most engines do something very similar. 
14:56:43 <sandro> ... It generalized from binding at the end of the query to something you join at any point.
14:56:56 <sandro> ... which will make Eric's heart sing, since he's been on about this for a while.  :-)
14:57:39 <sandro> ... Given we have 3 outstanding comments on this, we should at least draft this.   It's small spec changes, just moving a little of when you process it.
14:58:02 <kasei> sounds good
14:58:59 <sandro> sandro: I'm just worried about running out of Andy-time
14:59:53 <sandro> AndyS: agreed, time is a concern
15:00:04 <sandro> bglimm: Yes, but we have three comments, and this would address them.
15:01:44 <sandro> sandro: Sounds like Andy should go ahead, as long as he's personally motivated.
15:01:54 <sandro> AndyS: I at least want to go down the initial stages.
15:02:09 <sandro> ADJOURN
15:02:14 <Zakim> -bglimm
15:02:17 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:02:18 <Zakim> -MattPerry
15:02:19 <MattPerry> bye
15:02:21 <Zakim> -Olivier_
15:02:22 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:02:29 <Zakim> -cbuilara
15:02:34 <Zakim> -kasei
15:02:37 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
15:02:39 <Zakim> Attendees were kasei, Sandro, +, bglimm, Olivier_, MattPerry, cbuilara, AndyS