Chatlog 2012-03-13

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13:55:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:55:45 <RRSAgent> logging to
13:55:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:55:47 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
13:55:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
13:55:49 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
13:55:50 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:55:50 <trackbot> Date: 13 March 2012
13:56:22 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
13:56:23 <Zakim> + +1.617.324.aaaa
13:56:28 <ericP> Zakim, aaaa is me
13:56:28 <Zakim> +ericP; got it
13:57:43 <Zakim> +Sandro
13:57:45 <Zakim> -Sandro
13:57:45 <Zakim> +Sandro
13:59:20 <Zakim> +??P5
13:59:20 <bglimm> bglimm has joined #sparql
13:59:26 <AndyS> zakim, ??P5 is I
13:59:26 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
13:59:41 <Zakim> + +1.206.708.aabb
13:59:52 <Zakim> +??P7
14:00:03 <Zakim> + +1.310.729.aacc
14:00:10 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P7 is me
14:00:10 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
14:00:16 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:00:16 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:01:16 <Zakim> +??P10
14:01:20 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
14:01:20 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P10 is me
14:01:20 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
14:01:39 <Zakim> - +1.310.729.aacc
14:01:58 <Zakim> + +1.310.729.aadd
14:02:01 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql
14:02:10 <Zakim> + +1.216.368.aaee
14:02:22 <Zakim> +pgearon
14:02:58 <chimezie> Zakim,  +1.216.368.aaee is me
14:02:58 <Zakim> +chimezie; got it
14:03:28 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:03:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see ericP, Sandro, AndyS, +1.206.708.aabb, bglimm (muted), SteveH, +1.310.729.aadd, chimezie, pgearon
14:03:41 <Zakim> +MattPerry
14:03:53 <chimezie> I can scribe i was up
14:04:06 <ericP> scribenick: chimezie
14:04:06 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:04:06 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
14:05:03 <AndyS> Minutes --
14:05:18 <AndyS> topic: admin
14:05:51 <ericP> +1
14:05:54 <AndyS> PROPOSE to approve minutes from last time
14:05:55 <bglimm> Zakim, who's talking?
14:05:57 <ericP> +1
14:06:00 <AndyS> APPROVED
14:05:54 <AndyS> RESOLVED: to approve minutes from last time
14:06:05 <Zakim> bglimm, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ericP (70%), AndyS (84%)
14:06:31 <AndyS> Next meeting - 20 March - timezone shift - in effect
14:07:05 <AndyS> Agenda -
14:07:39 <chimezie> AndyS: this will be a process-centric meeting
14:07:44 <chimezie> ... other items for agenda?
14:08:07 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
14:08:09 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted
14:08:12 <AndyS> topic: TSV/CSV results
14:08:25 <ericP> chimezie: will try to get a review in before tomorrow
14:08:54 <ericP> ... will let you know if it's possible by the end of today
14:08:59 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:08:59 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
14:09:24 <chimezie> AndyS: Eric chairs while AndyS discusses next agenda item
14:10:08 <chimezie> AndyS: property paths.  Have added descriptive sections (done).  Structural markers in formal definition have pending work.  Email from Axel and Birte.  Progressing
14:10:29 <chimezie> Eric: not taking conservative path
14:10:57 <chimezie> AndyS: outlined proposal is to have both DISTINCT path matching operator with new operators to distinguish between counting and non-counting form of arbitrary-length paths
14:11:26 <ericP> AndyS: everybody gets everything, modulo syntax foo
14:11:33 <chimezie> ... need to get back to Axel's comments regarding blank nodes
14:11:49 <chimezie> EricP: estimate on how much more difficult it is for implementations?
14:11:59 <chimezie> AndyS: another 1/2 implementation of property paths (shared alot).  
14:12:17 <chimezie> ... is more work
14:12:32 <ericP> q?
14:13:14 <chimezie> Sandro: next steps?
14:13:22 <chimezie> AndyS: I keep working writing the specification
14:13:45 <AndyS> Axel email -
14:13:47 <bglimm> q+
14:14:11 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
14:14:11 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
14:14:13 <ericP> ack next
14:14:27 <chimezie> Sandro: require another LC?
14:14:29 <chimezie> AndyS: yes
14:15:14 <chimezie> AndyS: no formal decision to do it yet.  If we address comments, it has to be another LC.  No strong desire to do nothing
14:15:46 <chimezie> ... willing to do heavy lifting
14:16:37 <chimezie> bglimm: Do we really want to do this counting / non-counting operator distinction *and* to do DISTINCT
14:16:58 <chimezie> ... in 2 section on operators and DISTINCT it is not clear if these are alternatives to each other or complementary
14:17:32 <chimezie> AndyS: * and + counting/non-counting versions (agreement on this)
14:18:01 <chimezie> ... if we go with DISTINCT, we wouldn't need these operators.  Useful to distinguish between applicable algorithms to use and syntax clarification
14:18:10 <chimezie> bglimm: going for both?
14:18:14 <chimezie> AndyS: yes, so far
14:18:21 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:18:21 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:18:41 <AndyS> q?
14:19:15 <chimezie> ericp: adds syntactic shorthand (doesn't change expressivity)?
14:19:23 <chimezie> AndyS: will change number of answers [..distortion..]
14:20:24 <bglimm> yes
14:20:48 <ericP> topic: Group schedule
14:20:51 <cbuilara_> cbuilara_ has joined #sparql
14:21:09 <AndyS>
14:21:13 <ericP> topic: Actions + Comments
14:21:26 <Zakim> + +5697565aaff
14:21:35 <cbuilara_> zakim, ??5697565aaff is me
14:21:35 <Zakim> sorry, cbuilara_, I do not recognize a party named '??5697565aaff'
14:21:41 <Zakim> - +5697565aaff
14:22:12 <chimezie> AndyS: outstanding comments: PP - 3-4 comments
14:23:15 <chimezie> ericp: have people to delegate comment answering to?
14:23:41 <Zakim> +??P27
14:23:47 <cbuilara_> zakim, ??P27 is me
14:23:47 <Zakim> +cbuilara_; got it
14:23:48 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
14:23:48 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted
14:23:54 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:23:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see ericP, Sandro, AndyS, +1.206.708.aabb, bglimm (muted), SteveH, +1.310.729.aadd, chimezie, pgearon, MattPerry, cbuilara_
14:24:12 <ericP> chimezie: one or two outstanding graph store comments from James Lee
14:25:04 <AndyS> Paul - PA-3 ??
14:25:53 <ericP> q?
14:26:21 <chimezie> greg: I'd like to talk about the Dave R. comment at some point
14:26:25 <ericP> zakim, aadd is Greg
14:26:25 <Zakim> +Greg; got it
14:26:42 <AndyS> Comment - DRD-1 :
14:26:50 <chimezie> Greg: a concern about syntax of PP interfering with future expansion of prefix name syntax
14:27:02 <ericP> ACTION: Sandro to response to James Lee's commment(s) on Graph Store Protocol, due in two weeks
14:27:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-603 - Response to James Lee's commment(s) on Graph Store Protocol, due in two weeks [on Sandro Hawke - due 2012-03-20].
14:27:09 <chimezie> ... I'm worried this opens pandoras box, but if we are in additional LC, we should at least discuss it
14:27:55 <chimezie> ... characters in prefix name has been growing.  PP syntax limits this. '/' can never be added to a prefix name, for example
14:28:15 <chimezie> ericp: is he aware backslash can be used for escaping?
14:28:28 <AndyS> Yes - in SPARQL - yes he's aware.
14:29:05 <ericP> q+ to describe the tension of SPARQL-Turtle compatibility vs. brevity
14:29:07 <chimezie> greg: brought up point regarding CURIEs.  worried about adding syntax like that to SPRQL
14:29:11 <chimezie> s/SPRQL/SPARQL
14:29:13 <ericP> ack aadd
14:29:47 <chimezie> ericp: concern is complexity of implementation or of user experience?
14:29:58 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:29:58 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
14:30:15 <chimezie> greg: late in the game to play around w/ syntax (counting syntax notwithstanding)
14:30:31 <chimezie> ... shouldn't be huge implementation burden, however we should decide
14:30:38 <ericP> ack me
14:30:38 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to describe the tension of SPARQL-Turtle compatibility vs. brevity
14:31:09 <chimezie> ericp: xml namespace usecase was irritating
14:31:46 <chimezie> ... there was desire to add more characters in SPARQL / Turtle.  In the latter, there was tension around ?squatting on character?
14:32:24 <chimezie> ... solution: to use escape mechanism in local names but not property paths.  In Turtle, authors bear burden of escaping being on assertion language
14:32:27 <chimezie> s/latter/former
14:32:40 <chimezie> ericp:  IMO: this is good enough as it is now and meeting many usecases
14:33:26 <chimezie> AndyS: I agree with Eric.  Also, colon character is used in GSP.  Desire for prefix name to have colon in local name, but incompatible in turtle
14:33:30 <AndyS>  a:b:c:d is valid Turtle --  a:b   :c  :d . 
14:33:49 <ericP> nice!
14:34:40 <chimezie> AndyS: a matter or preference.  CURIEs overload square brackets.  Not sure it works out well.  
14:35:05 <chimezie> ... not sure if 2 ways for syntax is acceptable (need to right out rules twice)
14:36:15 <chimezie> ericp: no one tried to spec out a grammar.  
14:37:23 <chimezie> ericp: content to not require backslash escaping of colon
14:37:31 <chimezie> ... IRC example will require whitespace
14:39:56 <chimezie> ericP: refer to them as 'meta characters'
14:40:09 <chimezie> ... SPARQL local names (and Turtle) have not meta chars (one choice)
14:40:18 <chimezie> ... or escape in SPARQL but not in Turtle (or in both)
14:40:42 <chimezie> ... im inclined to do both
14:42:07 <chimezie> AndyS: take to email?
14:42:21 <chimezie> greg: brought up with RDF WG, we agreed to send to them
14:42:23 <chimezie> AndyS: yes
14:42:44 <chimezie> ... no response
14:44:05 <AndyS> RDF-WG email:
14:46:09 <pgearon> +q
14:46:38 <ericP> ack next
14:46:47 <ericP> ack aadd
14:46:51 <ericP> ack next
14:47:05 <chimezie> Paul: Peter Ansil question: DELETE / INSERT clauses
14:47:17 <chimezie> ... allow them to appear in either order
14:47:28 <AndyS> Peter Ansell
14:47:34 <chimezie> ... if not, clean up examples, but he has a point.  Any reason we can't have them interchangeable?
14:47:42 <chimezie> s/Ansil/Ansell
14:47:52 <chimezie> AndyS: DELETE is executed before INSERT and it makes a difference
14:48:13 <pgearon> q-
14:48:41 <chimezie> bye
14:48:44 <Zakim> -chimezie
14:48:44 <bglimm> bye
14:48:47 <Zakim> - +1.206.708.aabb
14:48:47 <cbuilara_> bye
14:48:47 <AndyS> ADJOURNED
14:48:50 <Zakim> -Sandro
14:48:52 <Zakim> -SteveH
14:48:54 <Zakim> -bglimm
14:48:56 <Zakim> -pgearon
14:49:05 <Zakim> -MattPerry
14:49:07 <Zakim> -cbuilara_
14:49:07 <Zakim> -Greg
14:52:10 <Zakim> -AndyS
14:52:12 <Zakim> -ericP
14:52:14 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
14:52:14 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.617.324.aaaa, ericP, Sandro, AndyS, +1.206.708.aabb, +1.310.729.aacc, bglimm, SteveH, +1.310.729.aadd, pgearon, chimezie, MattPerry, +5697565aaff, cbuilara_, Greg
14:53:58 <MacTed> MacTed has joined #sparql
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