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13:55:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql 13:55:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/13-sparql-irc 13:55:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world 13:55:47 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql 13:55:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277 13:55:49 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes 13:55:50 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference 13:55:50 <trackbot> Date: 13 March 2012 13:56:22 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started 13:56:23 <Zakim> + +1.617.324.aaaa 13:56:28 <ericP> Zakim, aaaa is me 13:56:28 <Zakim> +ericP; got it 13:57:43 <Zakim> +Sandro 13:57:45 <Zakim> -Sandro 13:57:45 <Zakim> +Sandro 13:59:20 <Zakim> +??P5 13:59:20 <bglimm> bglimm has joined #sparql 13:59:26 <AndyS> zakim, ??P5 is I 13:59:26 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it 13:59:41 <Zakim> + +1.206.708.aabb 13:59:52 <Zakim> +??P7 14:00:03 <Zakim> + +1.310.729.aacc 14:00:10 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P7 is me 14:00:10 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it 14:00:16 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me 14:00:16 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted 14:01:16 <Zakim> +??P10 14:01:20 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql 14:01:20 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P10 is me 14:01:20 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it 14:01:39 <Zakim> - +1.310.729.aacc 14:01:58 <Zakim> + +1.310.729.aadd 14:02:01 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql 14:02:10 <Zakim> + +1.216.368.aaee 14:02:22 <Zakim> +pgearon 14:02:58 <chimezie> Zakim, +1.216.368.aaee is me 14:02:58 <Zakim> +chimezie; got it 14:03:28 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone? 14:03:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see ericP, Sandro, AndyS, +1.206.708.aabb, bglimm (muted), SteveH, +1.310.729.aadd, chimezie, pgearon 14:03:41 <Zakim> +MattPerry 14:03:53 <chimezie> I can scribe i was up 14:04:06 <ericP> scribenick: chimezie 14:04:06 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me 14:04:06 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted 14:05:03 <AndyS> Minutes -- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-03-06 14:05:18 <AndyS> topic: admin 14:05:51 <ericP> +1 14:05:54 <AndyS> PROPOSE to approve minutes from last time http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-03-06 14:05:55 <bglimm> Zakim, who's talking? 14:05:57 <ericP> +1 14:06:00 <AndyS> APPROVED 14:05:54 <AndyS> RESOLVED: to approve minutes from last time http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-03-06 14:06:05 <Zakim> bglimm, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ericP (70%), AndyS (84%) 14:06:31 <AndyS> Next meeting - 20 March - timezone shift - in effect 14:07:05 <AndyS> Agenda - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JanMar/0242.html 14:07:39 <chimezie> AndyS: this will be a process-centric meeting 14:07:44 <chimezie> ... other items for agenda? 14:08:07 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me 14:08:09 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted 14:08:12 <AndyS> topic: TSV/CSV results 14:08:25 <ericP> chimezie: will try to get a review in before tomorrow 14:08:54 <ericP> ... will let you know if it's possible by the end of today 14:08:59 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me 14:08:59 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted 14:09:24 <chimezie> AndyS: Eric chairs while AndyS discusses next agenda item 14:10:08 <chimezie> AndyS: property paths. Have added descriptive sections (done). Structural markers in formal definition have pending work. Email from Axel and Birte. Progressing 14:10:29 <chimezie> Eric: not taking conservative path 14:10:57 <chimezie> AndyS: outlined proposal is to have both DISTINCT path matching operator with new operators to distinguish between counting and non-counting form of arbitrary-length paths 14:11:26 <ericP> AndyS: everybody gets everything, modulo syntax foo 14:11:33 <chimezie> ... need to get back to Axel's comments regarding blank nodes 14:11:49 <chimezie> EricP: estimate on how much more difficult it is for implementations? 14:11:59 <chimezie> AndyS: another 1/2 implementation of property paths (shared alot). 14:12:17 <chimezie> ... is more work 14:12:32 <ericP> q? 14:13:14 <chimezie> Sandro: next steps? 14:13:22 <chimezie> AndyS: I keep working writing the specification 14:13:45 <AndyS> Axel email - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JanMar/0242.html 14:13:47 <bglimm> q+ 14:14:11 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me 14:14:11 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted 14:14:13 <ericP> ack next 14:14:27 <chimezie> Sandro: require another LC? 14:14:29 <chimezie> AndyS: yes 14:15:14 <chimezie> AndyS: no formal decision to do it yet. If we address comments, it has to be another LC. No strong desire to do nothing 14:15:46 <chimezie> ... willing to do heavy lifting 14:16:37 <chimezie> bglimm: Do we really want to do this counting / non-counting operator distinction *and* to do DISTINCT 14:16:58 <chimezie> ... in 2 section on operators and DISTINCT it is not clear if these are alternatives to each other or complementary 14:17:32 <chimezie> AndyS: * and + counting/non-counting versions (agreement on this) 14:18:01 <chimezie> ... if we go with DISTINCT, we wouldn't need these operators. Useful to distinguish between applicable algorithms to use and syntax clarification 14:18:10 <chimezie> bglimm: going for both? 14:18:14 <chimezie> AndyS: yes, so far 14:18:21 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me 14:18:21 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted 14:18:41 <AndyS> q? 14:19:15 <chimezie> ericp: adds syntactic shorthand (doesn't change expressivity)? 14:19:23 <chimezie> AndyS: will change number of answers [..distortion..] 14:20:24 <bglimm> yes 14:20:48 <ericP> topic: Group schedule 14:20:51 <cbuilara_> cbuilara_ has joined #sparql 14:21:09 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments 14:21:13 <ericP> topic: Actions + Comments 14:21:26 <Zakim> + +5697565aaff 14:21:35 <cbuilara_> zakim, ??5697565aaff is me 14:21:35 <Zakim> sorry, cbuilara_, I do not recognize a party named '??5697565aaff' 14:21:41 <Zakim> - +5697565aaff 14:22:12 <chimezie> AndyS: outstanding comments: PP - 3-4 comments 14:23:15 <chimezie> ericp: have people to delegate comment answering to? 14:23:41 <Zakim> +??P27 14:23:47 <cbuilara_> zakim, ??P27 is me 14:23:47 <Zakim> +cbuilara_; got it 14:23:48 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me 14:23:48 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted 14:23:54 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone? 14:23:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see ericP, Sandro, AndyS, +1.206.708.aabb, bglimm (muted), SteveH, +1.310.729.aadd, chimezie, pgearon, MattPerry, cbuilara_ 14:24:12 <ericP> chimezie: one or two outstanding graph store comments from James Lee 14:25:04 <AndyS> Paul - PA-3 ?? 14:25:53 <ericP> q? 14:26:21 <chimezie> greg: I'd like to talk about the Dave R. comment at some point 14:26:25 <ericP> zakim, aadd is Greg 14:26:25 <Zakim> +Greg; got it 14:26:42 <AndyS> Comment - DRD-1 : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Feb/0026.html 14:26:50 <chimezie> Greg: a concern about syntax of PP interfering with future expansion of prefix name syntax 14:27:02 <ericP> ACTION: Sandro to response to James Lee's commment(s) on Graph Store Protocol, due in two weeks 14:27:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-603 - Response to James Lee's commment(s) on Graph Store Protocol, due in two weeks [on Sandro Hawke - due 2012-03-20]. 14:27:09 <chimezie> ... I'm worried this opens pandoras box, but if we are in additional LC, we should at least discuss it 14:27:55 <chimezie> ... characters in prefix name has been growing. PP syntax limits this. '/' can never be added to a prefix name, for example 14:28:15 <chimezie> ericp: is he aware backslash can be used for escaping? 14:28:28 <AndyS> Yes - in SPARQL - yes he's aware. 14:29:05 <ericP> q+ to describe the tension of SPARQL-Turtle compatibility vs. brevity 14:29:07 <chimezie> greg: brought up point regarding CURIEs. worried about adding syntax like that to SPRQL 14:29:11 <chimezie> s/SPRQL/SPARQL 14:29:13 <ericP> ack aadd 14:29:47 <chimezie> ericp: concern is complexity of implementation or of user experience? 14:29:58 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me 14:29:58 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted 14:30:15 <chimezie> greg: late in the game to play around w/ syntax (counting syntax notwithstanding) 14:30:31 <chimezie> ... shouldn't be huge implementation burden, however we should decide 14:30:38 <ericP> ack me 14:30:38 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to describe the tension of SPARQL-Turtle compatibility vs. brevity 14:31:09 <chimezie> ericp: xml namespace usecase was irritating 14:31:46 <chimezie> ... there was desire to add more characters in SPARQL / Turtle. In the latter, there was tension around ?squatting on character? 14:32:24 <chimezie> ... solution: to use escape mechanism in local names but not property paths. In Turtle, authors bear burden of escaping being on assertion language 14:32:27 <chimezie> s/latter/former 14:32:40 <chimezie> ericp: IMO: this is good enough as it is now and meeting many usecases 14:33:26 <chimezie> AndyS: I agree with Eric. Also, colon character is used in GSP. Desire for prefix name to have colon in local name, but incompatible in turtle 14:33:30 <AndyS> a:b:c:d is valid Turtle -- a:b :c :d . 14:33:49 <ericP> nice! 14:34:40 <chimezie> AndyS: a matter or preference. CURIEs overload square brackets. Not sure it works out well. 14:35:05 <chimezie> ... not sure if 2 ways for syntax is acceptable (need to right out rules twice) 14:36:15 <chimezie> ericp: no one tried to spec out a grammar. 14:37:23 <chimezie> ericp: content to not require backslash escaping of colon 14:37:31 <chimezie> ... IRC example will require whitespace 14:39:56 <chimezie> ericP: refer to them as 'meta characters' 14:40:09 <chimezie> ... SPARQL local names (and Turtle) have not meta chars (one choice) 14:40:18 <chimezie> ... or escape in SPARQL but not in Turtle (or in both) 14:40:42 <chimezie> ... im inclined to do both 14:42:07 <chimezie> AndyS: take to email? 14:42:21 <chimezie> greg: brought up with RDF WG, we agreed to send to them 14:42:23 <chimezie> AndyS: yes 14:42:44 <chimezie> ... no response 14:44:05 <AndyS> RDF-WG email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Feb/0103.html 14:46:09 <pgearon> +q 14:46:38 <ericP> ack next 14:46:47 <ericP> ack aadd 14:46:51 <ericP> ack next 14:47:05 <chimezie> Paul: Peter Ansil question: DELETE / INSERT clauses 14:47:17 <chimezie> ... allow them to appear in either order 14:47:28 <AndyS> Peter Ansell 14:47:34 <chimezie> ... if not, clean up examples, but he has a point. Any reason we can't have them interchangeable? 14:47:42 <chimezie> s/Ansil/Ansell 14:47:52 <chimezie> AndyS: DELETE is executed before INSERT and it makes a difference 14:48:13 <pgearon> q- 14:48:41 <chimezie> bye 14:48:44 <Zakim> -chimezie 14:48:44 <bglimm> bye 14:48:47 <Zakim> - +1.206.708.aabb 14:48:47 <cbuilara_> bye 14:48:47 <AndyS> ADJOURNED 14:48:50 <Zakim> -Sandro 14:48:52 <Zakim> -SteveH 14:48:54 <Zakim> -bglimm 14:48:56 <Zakim> -pgearon 14:49:05 <Zakim> -MattPerry 14:49:07 <Zakim> -cbuilara_ 14:49:07 <Zakim> -Greg 14:52:10 <Zakim> -AndyS 14:52:12 <Zakim> -ericP 14:52:14 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended 14:52:14 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.617.324.aaaa, ericP, Sandro, AndyS, +1.206.708.aabb, +1.310.729.aacc, bglimm, SteveH, +1.310.729.aadd, pgearon, chimezie, MattPerry, +5697565aaff, cbuilara_, Greg 14:53:58 <MacTed> MacTed has joined #sparql 16:55:11 <Zakim> Zakim has left #sparql # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. DO NOT EDIT THIS LINE OR BELOW. SRCLINESUSED=00000190