Chatlog 2011-08-02

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13:59:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:59:48 <RRSAgent> logging to
13:59:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:59:53 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
13:59:55 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
13:59:55 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
13:59:56 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL
13:59:56 <Zakim> ok, LeeF, I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM already started
13:59:56 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:59:59 <trackbot> Date: 02 August 2011
13:59:59 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
14:00:00 <Zakim> +kasei
14:00:03 <LeeF> Scribe: pgearon
14:00:06 <LeeF> Scribenick: pgearon
14:00:11 <bglimm> Zakim, passcode?
14:00:18 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, bglimm
14:00:26 <Zakim> +??P16
14:00:32 <AndyS> zakim, ??P16 is me
14:00:41 <cbuilara> cbuilara has joined #sparql
14:00:50 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:01:15 <Zakim> +??P11
14:01:18 <Zakim> +MattPerry
14:01:20 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P11 is me
14:01:42 <Zakim> +??P22
14:01:44 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
14:01:56 <Zakim> +LeeF
14:02:02 <Zakim> +pgearon
14:02:19 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:02:20 <Zakim> sorry, bglimm, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:02:26 <LeeF> zakim, ??P22 is bglimm
14:02:26 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
14:02:34 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:02:34 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:02:39 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:02:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, AndyS, cbuilara, MattPerry, bglimm (muted), LeeF, pgearon
14:02:54 <LeeF> Agenda:
14:03:02 <Zakim> +??P36
14:03:17 <LeeF> Regrets: OlivierCorby, chimezie, AxelPolleres
14:03:26 <alexpassant> alexpassant has joined #sparql
14:03:29 <SteveH> SteveH has joined #sparql
14:03:37 <SteveH> Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:03:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, AndyS, cbuilara, MattPerry, bglimm (muted), LeeF, pgearon, ??P36
14:03:53 <SteveH> Zakim, P36 is me
14:03:58 <Zakim> sorry, SteveH, I do not recognize a party named 'P36'
14:04:02 <Zakim> +alexpassant
14:04:04 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P36 is me
14:04:08 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
14:04:15 <LeeF> topic: Admin
14:04:21 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at
14:04:29 <SteveH> Zakim, SteveH is me
14:04:34 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
14:05:16 <pgearon> LeeF: Major resolutions were to publish 2 working drafts
14:05:28 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at
14:05:50 <bglimm> Yes
14:05:55 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
14:05:55 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
14:05:59 <LeeF> Next regular meeting: 2011-08-09 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Birte ) 
14:06:03 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:06:03 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:06:07 <pgearon> LeeF: bglimm scribenick for next week
14:06:48 <LeeF> Regrets for next meeting: Sandro, NickH, Paul
14:07:05 <LeeF> subtopic: RDF WG liason
14:07:27 <pgearon> LeeF: last week discussed official liaison with RDF working group
14:08:19 <AndyS> I'll do it
14:08:29 <pgearon> LeeF: allows us to update notices on how RDF 1.1 affects SPARQL 1.1
14:08:48 <LeeF> topic: publications
14:08:51 <AndyS> (don't let it stop anyone else)
14:09:20 <pgearon> LeeF: short name approved for CSVTSV document
14:09:33 <pgearon> LeeF: non boilerplate paragraph into the status section
14:10:06 <pgearon> AndyS: what does the boilerplate need to say?
14:10:38 <pgearon> LeeF: this publication describes how to serialize SPARQL results in comma separated/tab separated formats
14:11:14 <pgearon> AndyS: I'll do it
14:11:41 <pgearon> LeeF: go ahead to publish, Axel and I ought to be able to push that forward
14:11:45 <LeeF> close ACTION-499
14:11:45 <trackbot> ACTION-499 Inquire at W3C team on next possible pub date. closed
14:11:55 <AndyS> AndyS: Also did some editorial foo, no design change (its WD so I just did them).
14:12:29 <AndyS> ACTION AndyS to draft text for CSV/TSV status para
14:12:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-507 - Draft text for CSV/TSV status para [on Andy Seaborne - due 2011-08-09].
14:12:34 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to work with editors & team (Ivan) to publish  CSV/TSV and JSON results
14:12:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-508 - Work with editors & team (Ivan) to publish  CSV/TSV and JSON results [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-08-09].
14:12:40 <pgearon> LeeF: next few weeks will have Sandro at home, so Ivan will be a contact until at least late August
14:12:43 <LeeF> topic: federated query 
14:13:01 <pgearon> LeeF: hoping to resolve to publish federated query today
14:13:31 <pgearon> LeeF: back and forth on the mailing list, so not sure if we're at the point of LC
14:14:09 <pgearon> AndyS: one open thing is 3rd example needs bindings clause added
14:14:24 <pgearon> AndyS: 3rd example in 2.4
14:15:13 <AndyS> { ?s a foaf:Person } ==>  { ?s a foaf:Person } BINDINGS (?s) { (:a) (:b) (:c) }
14:15:14 <pgearon> Carlos: applied what Andy said, but yet to apply comments from Greg
14:16:10 <AndyS> Currently, the 3rd q example has not BINDINGS clause (current CVS version)
14:16:32 <pgearon> kasei: a few things to consider, but haven't had a chance to look over the latest version, will do so soon
14:16:46 <LeeF> ACTION: Greg to review latest federated query document for Last Call readiness
14:16:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-509 - Review latest federated query document for Last Call readiness [on Gregory Williams - due 2011-08-09].
14:17:41 <LeeF> topic: other documents readiness
14:18:05 <pgearon> LeeF: small amount of progress on overview doc from Axel and protocol document from LeeF
14:18:45 <pgearon> LeeF: main thing left for protocol doc is update examples
14:19:06 <pgearon> LeeF:  also security and conformance bits to be cleaned up, plus references added
14:19:26 <pgearon> LeeF: Axel made some progress on overview document, but not sure what he's done
14:19:48 <pgearon> LeeF: not yet updates RDF 1.1 and SPARQL 1.1 wiki pages for result formats
14:20:36 <pgearon> LeeF: if AndyS wants to review, then that would be great
14:20:45 <pgearon> AndyS: no promises, but will see if I can
14:21:27 <pgearon> LeeF: want to talk at some point about CSV/TSV document. Maybe should leave to next week
14:21:30 <LeeF> topic: Comments
14:21:40 <LeeF>
14:21:55 <pgearon> LeeF: thank you AndyS for doing my least favorite thing in the world and updating this page
14:22:18 <pgearon> LeeF: go through the ones that are open, sorted by status....
14:22:23 <ericP> any known outstanding issues on federated query?
14:22:46 <LeeF>
14:22:46 <ericP> (and i mean really outstanding, not just pretty good)
14:23:19 <pgearon> LeeF: first comment from Jeen about built in functions that are approved
14:23:34 <SteveH> I think Jeen has a point about string functions
14:23:38 <SteveH> it's a little arbitrary
14:24:40 <pgearon> LeeF: do you want to discuss?
14:25:34 <pgearon> SteveH: thinks Jeen is right, but it's not worth another last call
14:25:51 <pgearon> AndyS: Jeen is half right, but he's missed one thing though
14:25:55 <AndyS> STRSTARTS and STRENDS
14:26:08 <pgearon> SteveH: Bryan Thompson comment a question rather than a comment
14:26:52 <pgearon> LeeF: Bryan is from BigData
14:27:00 <pgearon> AndyS: yes, and they use Sesame
14:27:19 <pgearon> LeeF: Andy, you think Bryan's conclusion is correct or not correct?
14:27:35 <pgearon> AndyS: it's an error, yes. It doesn't show up in results because error is unbound
14:27:43 <pgearon> LeeF: so group still appears?
14:27:46 <pgearon> AndyS: yes
14:28:05 <pgearon> AndyS: can't compare an error with unbound
14:28:39 <pgearon> AndyS: still have an error in test suite for errors and aggregates
14:29:03 <pgearon> AndyS: an action on SteveH for this
14:29:06 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
14:29:06 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
14:29:19 <AndyS> AndyS: SUM(?p) -> error ==> FILTER is error -> skipped.
14:29:37 <AndyS> s/AndyS: an action on SteveH for this/LeeF: an action on SteveH for this/ :-)
14:30:05 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:30:05 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:30:07 <pgearon> LeeF: assign MS-7 to bglimm
14:30:41 <pgearon> kasei: started addressing points to DB-6 in link on wiki
14:30:51 <pgearon> kasei: would appreciate feedback on draft
14:31:18 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to look at
14:31:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-510 - Look at [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-08-09].
14:31:19 <pgearon> kasei: a lot of what I have is a set of notes to be filled in, rather than an actual response
14:32:01 <pgearon> kasei: biggest changes that could come from this could be renaming of properties
14:32:14 <pgearon> LeeF: renaming like this would be a substantive change
14:32:32 <LeeF>
14:33:22 <pgearon> pgearon: will work on it this week, but won't be doing anything for the coming week due to vacation
14:33:47 <pgearon> LeeF: reminds AndyS that he has a pending comment from David DB-4
14:34:32 <pgearon> LeeF: wiki weirdness with SA-1
14:34:50 <pgearon> LeeF: looking at SC-3 first
14:35:15 <pgearon> LeeF: got acknowledgement that he's not thrilled, but won't object to the design
14:35:48 <pgearon> LeeF: SA-1 is a comment about performance problem with XSL style sheet incorporated into result format
14:36:34 <pgearon> LeeF: 2 options. Incorporate Stephen's patch and update, or say, thanks but not going to touch this right now
14:36:46 <pgearon> LeeF: anyone interested in verifying the patch?
14:37:11 <pgearon> AndyS: heard about patch before. Believe it makes a difference, with some caveats that my knowledge of XSLT is limitted
14:37:38 <pgearon> LeeF: don't want to go through a bunch of process for this
14:37:53 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to ask team (Ivan) about whether the patch in can be applied without any W3C process
14:37:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-511 - Ask team (Ivan) about whether the patch in can be applied without any W3C process [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-08-09].
14:38:49 <pgearon> LeeF: NL-1 about limitations of CONSTRUCT WHERE, I'll be taking care of this comment
14:39:03 <pgearon> LeeF: JB-6 Jeen's comment on aggregates
14:39:26 <pgearon> SteveH: don't think draft has been sent, looking
14:39:30 <LeeF>
14:39:36 <LeeF>
14:39:50 <pgearon> LeeF: SteveH has a full response
14:40:11 <AndyS> "We will add" => is this recorded anywhere?
14:40:54 <pgearon> SteveH: recalls had 1 response and said I'd send if no one else commented, but didn't follow up due to no one responding
14:41:59 <pgearon> LeeF: KK-14 assigned to kasei
14:42:08 <pgearon> kasei: done, just need to write the response
14:42:24 <pgearon> LeeF: KR-1, are you waiting for someone to comment on this?
14:42:34 <pgearon> kasei: just did it last night
14:42:43 <pgearon> LeeF: happy with KR-1, so send
14:42:58 <pgearon> LeeF: AL-1, needs chimezie
14:43:17 <LeeF>
14:43:39 <pgearon> LeeF: IH-1 from Ivan
14:43:47 <SteveH> q+
14:43:50 <pgearon> AndyS: done the change, but haven't written the response
14:44:48 <LeeF> ack SteveH
14:45:00 <pgearon> AndyS: real problem with Ivan's comment is that we don't reference OWL semantics at all in the query doc
14:45:45 <LeeF> ACTION: Steve to add text clarifying that functions/operators that return errors may be extended a la
14:45:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-512 - Add text clarifying that functions/operators that return errors may be extended a la [on Steve Harris - due 2011-08-09].
14:46:00 <pgearon> SteveH: going back to earlier comment, can't find specific text. Will work on that
14:47:08 <pgearon> LeeF: not prepared to do anything significant on test cases right now. Need to do it, but other stuff is more significant right now
14:47:16 <LeeF> topic: ACTION bookkeeping
14:47:23 <kasei> ACTION-484 is the part of KK-14 that I've done
14:47:24 <pgearon> LeeF: quickly, does anyone know of open actions on them that are complete that we can close?
14:47:28 <LeeF>
14:48:42 <LeeF> close ACTION-484
14:48:42 <trackbot> ACTION-484 Look at Kjetil's test case and incorporate it into the SPARQL WG test suite and email the group about it closed
14:48:53 <alexpassant> I've 54 and 72 still pending review - need to be closed
14:49:27 <alexpassant> neither am I :)
14:49:46 <pgearon> LeeF: pending review actions are probably all completed. Will check
14:50:00 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to review and close the pending review actions (
14:50:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-513 - Review and close the pending review actions ( [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-08-09].
14:50:56 <Zakim> -LeeF
14:50:57 <bglimm> bye
14:50:57 <Zakim> -kasei
14:50:58 <Zakim> -SteveH
14:50:59 <Zakim> -cbuilara
14:51:01 <Zakim> -pgearon
14:51:02 <Zakim> -alexpassant
14:51:02 <MattPerry> bye
14:51:03 <Zakim> -AndyS
14:51:03 <Zakim> -bglimm
14:51:12 <Zakim> -MattPerry
14:51:13 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
14:51:15 <Zakim> Attendees were kasei, AndyS, MattPerry, cbuilara, LeeF, pgearon, bglimm, alexpassant, SteveH