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Chatlog 2011-02-15
From SPARQL Working Group
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14:56:32 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql 14:56:32 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/15-sparql-irc 14:56:38 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql 14:56:46 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, this will be SPARQL 14:56:46 <Zakim> ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes 14:56:50 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started 14:57:00 <AxelPolleres> trackbot, start meeting 14:57:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world 14:57:05 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes 14:57:06 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference 14:57:06 <trackbot> Date: 15 February 2011 14:57:39 <AxelPolleres> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-02-15 14:57:45 <ocorby> ocorby has joined #sparql 14:57:45 <AxelPolleres> Chair: Axel Polleres 14:58:01 <AxelPolleres> Regrets: Paul, NickH, Chime 14:59:16 <Zakim> I notice SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has restarted 15:01:50 <AndyS> Re "Service vs. Graphstore?" -- I believe this is sorted now - the doc has URLs that make it clear. 15:02:40 <AlexPassant> AlexPassant has joined #sparql 15:02:58 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql 15:03:16 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone? 15:03:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see cbuilara, kasei, AndyS, AxelPolleres, ocorby, NicoM, bglimm (muted) 15:03:24 <AxelPolleres> scribe: carlos 15:04:11 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-02-15 15:04:23 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin 15:04:28 <SteveH__> SteveH__ has joined #sparql 15:04:34 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-02-08 15:05:09 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-02-08 15:05:24 <SteveH__> SteveH__ has joined #sparql 15:05:29 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: look at comments page 15:05:36 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments 15:05:46 <Zakim> +AlexPassant 15:05:54 <SteveH__> SteveH__ has joined #sparql 15:05:56 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to update comments page 15:05:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-390 - Update comments page [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-02-22]. 15:06:23 <LeeF> I need Chime to look at my response for GR, but I'll ping him offline 15:06:23 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: Does anybody need confirmation for responses? 15:07:27 <AndyS> response for GK-1 in progress 15:07:47 <AndyS> scribe: cbuilara 15:08:02 <AndyS> Regrets for next week: AndyS 15:08:17 <AxelPolleres> topic: to last call 15:08:27 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_Last_Call 15:08:48 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: Andy, quick report on query 15:09:13 <cbuilara> AndyS: nothing to comment 15:09:31 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: status of section 11? 15:09:37 <AxelPolleres> steve? 15:09:54 <AxelPolleres> steveh any news on section 11? 15:10:01 <SteveH> AxelPolleres, sorry, I'm having comms problems, can't connect to london, and out voip system wont dial international numbers 15:10:09 <SteveH> will be on viaskype shortly 15:10:18 <AxelPolleres> let's take this to mail so. 15:10:23 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: Talk this by email 15:10:34 <AxelPolleres> let us know status updates on section 11 and schedule, if possible 15:10:59 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: Steve, report on section 11 15:11:30 <cbuilara> SteveH: I made change removing errors, section is complete 15:11:39 <cbuilara> SteveH: section is ready for review 15:13:14 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-03-26#resolution_2 15:13:52 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: we want to have a handle to the number of errors in the aggregate (in their semantics) 15:14:28 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: proposal, drop this requirement (handling of errors) 15:14:32 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0250.html 15:14:50 <AndyS> q+ 15:14:52 <LeeF> Does anyone remember if the # of errors supported a paricular use case? all i remember is that it seemed like a nice thing to do at the time 15:15:05 <AxelPolleres> proposal... 15:15:11 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Drop error counts in the semantics definition of aggregate functions, overriding http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-03-26#resolution_2 with the insight that it is not needed/special aggregates could define/implement error counts. 15:15:25 <AxelPolleres> Andy: proposal doesn't cover all 15:16:42 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Aggregates are not passed a dedicated count of errors, but instead are passed a multiset of values that includes errors as well 15:17:17 <AndyS> ^h^h^ 15:17:32 <SteveH> seconded 15:17:44 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: hppy with LeeF proposal 15:17:51 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Aggregates are not passed a dedicated count of errors, but instead are passed a multiset of values that includes errors as well, overriding http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-03-26#resolution_2 15:18:00 <SteveH> seconded 15:18:01 <LeeF> seconded 15:18:04 <LeeF> thirded 15:18:10 <NicoM> +1 15:18:13 <bglimm> +1 15:18:17 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Aggregates are not passed a dedicated count of errors, but instead are passed a multiset of values that includes errors as well, overriding http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-03-26#resolution_2 15:18:39 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: Anything more Steve? 15:19:10 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_Last_Call 15:19:39 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: section 11 is also ready for review 15:20:27 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: section 18 keep updating for when the document is ready for review 15:21:12 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: matt to review Query, particularly Section 18 15:21:26 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: matthew to review Query, particularly Section 18 15:21:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-391 - Review Query, particularly Section 18 [on Matthew Perry - due 2011-02-22]. 15:22:21 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Lee to review query 15:22:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-392 - Review query [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-02-22]. 15:22:34 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to review query 15:22:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-393 - Review query [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-02-22]. 15:22:47 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: Update document 15:22:52 <AxelPolleres> subtopic: update 15:23:08 <LeeF> I just sent an email about it. 15:23:14 <LeeF> I'm not inclined to re-open that issue. 15:23:32 <cbuilara> ocorby: blank nodes comment, still waiting for feedback, formal model -> issue with xml, it will be online 15:23:58 <cbuilara> ocorby: formal model will be ready for review 15:24:10 <cbuilara> ocorby: waiting for comments 15:24:12 <AlexPassant> s/ocorby/AlexPassant 15:26:09 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: wait for what Paul can do in the document before going to last call 15:26:19 <AxelPolleres> if anybody has concrete proposal, please mail/respond! 15:26:20 <cbuilara> AxellPolleres: people can still make proposals 15:26:38 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: protocol, any progress there? 15:26:46 <LeeF> (As I understand it, Paul is Ok with making the change in the document, he just wanted to ask about the resolution.) 15:27:24 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: Topic: Service desription 15:28:17 <cbuilara> kasei: modelling currently has services as distinct from the URL which access an endpoint 15:28:44 <cbuilara> kasei: the issue is whether the service should actually be the endpoint url 15:28:57 <SteveH> q+ 15:29:03 <cbuilara> kasei: Andy had a good summary email 15:29:27 <AndyS> "Service" and "Service endpoint" 15:30:04 <cbuilara> kasei: any comments? 15:30:36 <LeeF> (silence) 15:30:58 <LeeF> ack AndyS 15:31:01 <LeeF> ack SteveH 15:32:12 <kasei> q+ 15:32:52 <LeeF> ack kasei 15:32:56 <cbuilara> kasei: dropping the URL would make me happy, but I'm comfortable with ANdy's description 15:33:18 <LeeF> (sounds good to me) 15:33:44 <cbuilara> kasei: favor not dropping the URL as long as it meets the conformance test 15:34:12 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: any objections? 15:34:57 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me 15:34:57 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted 15:34:58 <cbuilara> topic: Entailment 15:35:09 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: Any news? 15:35:10 <LeeF> I haven't heard anything from Clark & Parsia 15:35:36 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: briefing the reviewers, email on the test cases 15:35:37 <MattPerry> I'm pretty sure Zhe's review is finished 15:35:40 <bglimm> Yes 15:35:46 <bglimm> I think my mic is not working 15:35:48 <bglimm> Yes 15:35:55 <bglimm> I am fine with that, will check the email 15:36:03 <MattPerry> ok 15:36:11 <cbuilara> Topic: Fed query 15:36:19 <bglimm> I haven't heard back from Zhe, but I think I addressed it 15:36:40 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me 15:36:40 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted 15:37:28 <cbuilara> cbuilara: fix all these by end of February 15:37:32 <AxelPolleres> carlos: will finish including comments by end of the months 15:38:16 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: if you need any comment Carlos, bring it up at the list 15:38:19 <cbuilara> zakim, mute me 15:38:19 <Zakim> cbuilara should now be muted 15:38:32 <AxelPolleres> q? 15:38:35 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: any more comment? 15:38:52 <AxelPolleres> Axel: JSON still needs maybe editing power to include comments 15:39:30 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: not much progress 15:39:37 <AxelPolleres> ... Overview doc not much progress 15:40:01 <AxelPolleres> topic: test status 15:40:22 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: not much mail about that topic 15:40:43 <AndyS> PP changes 15:40:45 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: is anything more test cases can be conformed? 15:42:19 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Matthew to look over PP test cases and check whether they still apply, change if necessary 15:42:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-394 - Look over PP test cases and check whether they still apply, change if necessary [on Matthew Perry - due 2011-02-22]. 15:42:42 <bglimm> Yes, sorted. I just reply to your email 15:43:25 <cbuilara> topic: Issue status 15:43:37 <AxelPolleres> topic: ORDER in GROUP_CONCAT 15:44:07 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: we have decided that we won't have an order parameter for GROUP_CONCAT 15:44:10 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-10-26#line0100 15:44:54 <AndyS> As this has come up, maybe it's quicker to do it than deal with comments 15:45:01 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: we don't think we can do it in a reasonable time, moved to postponed issues, opinions? 15:45:18 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: can we do it? 15:46:10 <cbuilara> AndyS: I was suggesting that the order by affect the group concat itself 15:46:32 <SteveH> q+ 15:46:48 <cbuilara> SteveH: it is probably too much work at this stage 15:47:06 <cbuilara> SteveH: not just the order by applies to all aggregates 15:48:50 <AndyS> """Sample(M) = v, where v in Flatten(M)""" 15:49:46 <kasei> yes 15:49:51 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: go ahead, Steve, if you have time edit it, if not, move to postponed issues 15:49:57 <SteveH> I won't have time to edit it 15:50:11 <LeeF> Probably 15:50:31 <AxelPolleres> propose to raise an ISSUE now and just see whether we can have time to address it before LC 15:50:45 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: is that ok? 15:50:47 <AxelPolleres> objections? 15:50:53 <AndyS> abstain 15:51:11 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: go ahead with it 15:51:45 <AxelPolleres> ISSUE: Should there be an ORDER BY for aggregates, particularly GROUP_CONCAT 15:51:45 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-66 - Should there be an ORDER BY for aggregates, particularly GROUP_CONCAT ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/66/edit . 15:52:22 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: issues list 15:52:50 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: sparql update issue addressed? anything ongoing? 15:52:54 <Zakim> -LeeF 15:53:26 <AlexPassant> there's section "A Security Considerations (Informative)" on the new doc 15:53:28 <trackbot> ISSUE-19 Security issues on SPARQL/UPdate notes added 15:53:58 <kasei> i think 33 can be closed because we're not doing wsdl anymore 15:54:39 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: do we still have to discuss all the http errors? I will talk to Lee on that issue 15:54:53 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to get in touch with lee on ISSUE-33 (on the mailinglist) 15:54:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-395 - Get in touch with lee on ISSUE-33 (on the mailinglist) [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-02-22]. 15:54:58 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: on the mailing list 15:55:21 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: protocols should remain open 15:56:19 <NicoM> action 356 on SD review can be closed 15:56:19 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 356 15:56:24 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-384 15:56:24 <trackbot> ACTION-384 Review fed query closed 15:56:33 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-385 15:56:33 <trackbot> ACTION-385 Review fed query closed 15:56:56 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: any other issue for the day? 15:57:03 <SteveH> bye all 15:57:05 <AxelPolleres> adjourned 15:57:41 <SteveH> AxelPolleres, sorry I couldn't scribe, phone system here is failing 15:57:47 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public 15:57:56 <AxelPolleres> Steveh, ok to scribe next week? 15:59:23 <AxelPolleres> thanks all! 15:59:24 <SteveH> SteveH has joined #sparql 15:59:25 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres 15:59:26 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended 15:59:28 <Zakim> Attendees were cbuilara, kasei, AxelPolleres, +34.92.38.aaaa, AndyS, ocorby, +49.911.973.4.aabb, NicoM, bglimm, MattPerry, +1.617.553.aacc, LeeF, AlexPassant, SteveH 15:59:52 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has left #sparql # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. 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