Chatlog 2010-09-14

From SPARQL Working Group
Jump to: navigation, search

See original RRSAgent log and preview nicely formatted version.

Please justify/explain all edits to this page, in your "edit summary" text.

13:59:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:59:18 <RRSAgent> logging to
13:59:33 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
13:59:57 <kasei> Zakim, this is sparql
14:00:02 <AxelPolleres> trackbot, start meeting
14:00:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:00:05 <Zakim> ok, kasei; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM
14:00:06 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
14:00:07 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:00:07 <trackbot> Date: 14 September 2010
14:00:11 <Zakim> + +
14:00:15 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now
14:00:18 <AxelPolleres> chair: Axel Polleres
14:00:24 <kasei> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:00:26 <OlivierCorby> Zakim, aaaa is me
14:00:33 <Zakim> I notice SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has restarted
14:00:33 <AxelPolleres> agenda:
14:00:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see AxelPolleres, kasei, +
14:00:39 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby; got it
14:00:41 <Zakim> +??P18
14:01:00 <kasei> scribenick: kasei
14:01:00 <AxelPolleres> scribe: Greg Williams
14:01:07 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
14:01:07 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:01:09 <Zakim> +Ivan
14:01:12 <AndyS> zakim, ??P18 is me
14:01:12 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:01:26 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:01:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see AxelPolleres, kasei, OlivierCorby, AndyS, Ivan
14:01:37 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aabb
14:01:48 <MattPerry> zakim, aabb is me
14:02:09 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it
14:02:53 <Souri> Souri has joined #sparql
14:03:02 <kasei> topic: admin
14:03:10 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at
14:03:26 <kasei> AxelPolleres: minutes from last time?
14:03:40 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at
14:04:22 <Zakim> +??P42
14:04:22 <kasei> ... next meeting. Both chairs gone next week.
14:04:28 <Zakim> + +1.617.245.aacc
14:04:28 <kasei> ... need to find a chair.
14:04:30 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aadd
14:04:36 <Zakim> -??P42
14:04:37 <AlexPassant> Zakim, ??P42 is me
14:04:41 <kasei> ivan: sandro may be around, but I am not sure.
14:04:44 <MattPerry> I could scribe next time
14:04:46 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to clarify chairing next time
14:04:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-309 - Clarify chairing next time [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-09-21].
14:05:13 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:05:13 <kasei> topic: status of documents
14:05:39 <Zakim> I already had ??P42 as Guest P42 26632, AlexPassant
14:05:44 <kasei> AxelPolleres: which documents are ready for publication. what issues remain?
14:05:47 <ivan> q+
14:05:50 <kasei> ... want to assign reviewers.
14:05:55 <kasei> ... start with query document.
14:06:16 <LeeF> Reviews by end of this call? :-)
14:06:20 <kasei> ivan: good to know the times involved in reviewing
14:06:41 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
14:06:47 <ivan> ack ivan
14:06:49 <Zakim> +??P33
14:06:50 <LeeF> zakim, aacc is me
<kasei> subtopic: Query document
14:07:00 <kasei> AxelPolleres: Query document. Andy sent a list of which sections are ready for review.
14:07:06 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
14:07:09 <kasei> AndyS: sent list of sections that had changed from 1.0
14:07:22 <AndyS>
14:07:58 <ivan> q+
14:08:02 <kasei> AxelPolleres: which sections should we assign for review? Can we review some sections now?
14:08:25 <kasei> ... are there stable parts reviewable now?
14:08:39 <kasei> AndyS: thought we were aiming for working draft publication out. If so, then the whole document is reviewable.
14:08:43 <Zakim> + +44.186.528.aaee
14:08:52 <bglimm> Zakim, +44.186.528.aaee is me
14:08:52 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
14:09:13 <kasei> AxelPolleres: with query, we probably need another WD publication. will anything happen before we publish/review?
14:09:30 <ivan> ack ivan
14:09:44 <kasei> ivan: I thought we were talking about LC reviews.
14:09:50 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:09:50 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:09:54 <kasei> ... now I hear something different. what are we talking about?
14:10:21 <AxelPolleres>
14:10:29 <AxelPolleres>
14:10:56 <kasei> AxelPolleres: I understood in our meeting on Aug 24 that we suggested the way forward is to have editors put missing pieces in, go with one more round of WD
14:11:16 <kasei> ... we'll incorporate reviews from outside.
14:11:23 <kasei> ... try to get the documents out, and in parallel get LC ready.
14:11:29 <kasei> ... is that just my understanding?
14:11:58 <kasei> ivan: that's fine if it's the plan. If we are looking for LC reviewers, then this should happen only when the whole document is ready.
14:12:08 <kasei> ... reviewing just one part of a document should not happen.
14:13:01 <kasei> AxelPolleres: idea was to have missing pieces in [by now?], but that hasn't happened yet.
14:13:13 <kasei> ... could have WG reviewers for the parts that are done.
14:13:28 <kasei> ... want an indication of what parts are finished, what's unstable.
14:13:46 <kasei> ... the list AndyS sent around is what has changed, not what is ready.
14:13:57 <kasei> AndyS: indication to people what sections are relevant.
14:14:05 <kasei> AxelPolleres: can you provide a list of what's ready/stable?
14:15:00 <kasei> ... for going forward, we can assign reviewers to go over it in the next 1/2 weeks?
14:15:27 <kasei> AndyS: isn't clear to me if the reviews right now are for LC or just WD?
14:15:47 <kasei> AxelPolleres: can we get 2 people to review document in current state?
14:15:52 <kasei> I can
14:15:55 <MattPerry> I can too
14:16:08 <kasei> AxelPolleres: Greg and Matt will review.
14:16:39 <kasei> AxelPolleres: looking for having the documents ready to publish. we should also think about the date we want to publish.
14:16:53 <kasei> ... is one week possible?
14:16:59 <MattPerry> 2 week is better
14:17:03 <kasei> I can probably do 1, but 2 better.
14:17:12 <kasei> ... let's discuss in 2 weeks.
14:17:30 <kasei> ... we'll try for 2 weeks for all documents.
14:17:55 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: greg to review queryt for WD publication
14:17:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-310 - Review queryt for WD publication [on Gregory Williams - due 2010-09-21].
14:18:10 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: matt to review query for WD publication
14:18:10 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - matt
<kasei> subtopic: Update document
14:18:26 <kasei> AxelPolleres: Update document.
14:18:49 <kasei> AlexPassant: the formal model is not complete yet.
14:18:55 <kasei> ... review could start by Monday next week.
14:19:10 <kasei> ... formal model hasn't been reviewed yet. maybe 2 reviewers plus one just for the model.
14:19:34 <kasei> AxelPolleres: is the document ready from your point of view? are all issues fixed?
14:19:51 <kasei> AlexPassant: no, not yet. issues will be ready by Monday. will be able to say on monday if ready for LC or if more time is needed.
14:20:15 <kasei> AxelPolleres: we should have at least some reviews to get out a WD.
14:20:30 <kasei> ... AlexPassant can inform reviewers when it is ready for review.
14:20:48 <kasei> ... volunteers for reviewing update?
14:20:51 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to review update
14:20:51 <trackbot> Could not create new action (failed to parse response from server) - please contact sysreq with the details of what happened.
14:20:51 <trackbot> Could not create new action (unparseable data in server response: local variable 'd' referenced before assignment) - please contact sysreq with the details of what happened.
14:21:23 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: AndyS to review update formal model
14:21:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-312 - Review update formal model [on Andy Seaborne - due 2010-09-21].
14:21:36 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to review Update
14:21:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-313 - Review Update [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-09-21].
14:21:57 <AndyS> (assumes Alex has had time to add more formal model)
14:22:00 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: alex to inform andy/axel for review readyness
14:22:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-314 - Inform andy/axel for review readyness [on Alexandre Passant - due 2010-09-21].
<kasei> subtopic: Entailment document
14:22:12 <kasei> AxelPolleres: Entailment document
14:22:15 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
14:22:20 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
14:22:28 <kasei> bglimm: the document is ready for review.
14:22:36 <ivan> q+
14:22:40 <kasei> ... want to add example for RDF-based semantics, but that's an informative section so doesn't require waiting.
14:23:07 <kasei> AxelPolleres: made progress with sandro on issues around RIF.
14:23:26 <kasei> ... progress, but will not have it in final shape for this round of WD.
14:23:42 <kasei> ... should mark these points in the document, and will have to review again before LC.
14:23:58 <kasei> ... can we assign reviewers for OWL and RDF parts?
14:24:19 <kasei> ... does Chime still have open issues in the document?
14:24:31 <kasei> ivan: still have to agree on URIs for the namespace document.
14:25:04 <kasei> ... one issue is rdf import. another is what URI to use for entailment.
14:25:15 <kasei> ... not sure where we are on that.
14:25:22 <ivan> q-
14:25:25 <kasei> ... everything leads to Chime.
14:26:00 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Birte to follow up with Chime on review readiness of entailment
14:26:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-315 - Follow up with Chime on review readiness of entailment [on Birte Glimm - due 2010-09-21].
14:26:23 <OlivierCorby> I can review 
14:26:28 <kasei> AxelPolleres: does it make sense to look for entailment reviewers, to be ready whenever issues are dealt with?
14:26:48 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Olivier to review entailment whenever he gets ok from Chime/Birte
14:26:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-316 - Review entailment whenever he gets ok from Chime/Birte [on Olivier Corby - due 2010-09-21].
14:26:57 <kasei> ... Olivier can review. Anybody else?
14:27:14 <kasei> ... Zakim can pick a victim.
14:28:00 <kasei> AxelPolleres: need reviewers from the WG.
14:28:03 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, pick a victim
14:28:03 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose AndyS
14:28:04 <kasei> ... we'll try Zakim.
14:28:29 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, pick a victim
14:28:29 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose bglimm
14:28:39 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, pick a victim
14:28:39 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose AndyS
14:29:07 <AndyS> Zakim, pick Axel
14:29:07 <Zakim> I don't understand 'pick Axel', AndyS
14:29:13 <kasei> (Zakim is being uncooperative.)
14:29:19 <kasei> AxelPolleres: LeeF, can you review?
14:29:34 <kasei> LeeF: yes, but don't feel qualified for some of it.
14:29:41 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Lee to review entailment
14:29:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-317 - Review entailment [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2010-09-21].
<kasei> subtopic: HTTP Update document
14:29:57 <kasei> AxelPolleres: HTTP Update
14:30:03 <kasei> ... Chime isn't around, so can't make a decision today.
<kasei> subtopic: Service Description document
14:30:07 <kasei> AxelPolleres: Service Description
14:30:24 <kasei> ... any volunteers?
14:30:24 <AlexPassant> I volunteer for SD
14:30:36 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: alex to review SD
14:30:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-318 - Review SD [on Alexandre Passant - due 2010-09-21].
14:31:43 <kasei> AxelPolleres: is it ready for review?
14:32:02 <bglimm> I can review
14:32:10 <kasei> kasei: yes, content is all reviewable. open issues for adding cross-links to other documents (e.g. protocol)
14:32:12 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: birte to review SD
14:32:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-319 - Review SD [on Birte Glimm - due 2010-09-21].
14:32:19 <kasei> AxelPolleres: Alex and Birte will review SD.
<kasei> subtopic: Protocol document
14:32:27 <kasei> AxelPolleres: Protocol document
14:32:33 <kasei> ... still have to figure out the status.
14:32:39 <LeeF> Uothing new, i think we shouldn't poublish it this time around
14:32:54 <kasei> ... will leave it out for this round.
14:32:58 <AxelPolleres> protocol to be left out for this round.
<kasei> subtopic: Test Suite
14:33:09 <kasei> AxelPolleres: Test Suite
14:33:27 <kasei> ... question about how we publish it.
14:33:43 <kasei> ... does it make sense to put the test suite in rec-track?
14:33:52 <kasei> ... or sufficient to have it as a note?
14:34:07 <kasei> ... will check our previous discussions.
14:34:19 <kasei> AndyS: I don't see how we can have feedback on implementations unless test suite is rec-track.
14:35:10 <kasei> AndyS: is this about the test case document, or the tests themselves?
14:35:20 <kasei> AxelPolleres: we have to check whether those we've dicussed are marked as approved.
14:35:34 <kasei> ... I would publish the whole document structure, but need a separate overview document.
14:35:41 <kasei> ... only have the readme document right now.
14:35:57 <kasei> ... doesn't make sense to publish this alone. maybe we should hold back.
14:36:14 <kasei> ... on the other hand, we're losing time if we don't do it now.
14:36:32 <kasei> ... I won't be able to work on it in the next 2 weeks.
14:36:44 <kasei> ... I can promise to do it in 3 weeks, then we revisit.
14:37:12 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to bring test suite in shape for FPWD within 3 weeks 
14:37:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-320 - Bring test suite in shape for FPWD within 3 weeks  [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-09-21].
<kasei> subtopic: Overview document
14:37:26 <kasei> AxelPolleres: Overview document
14:37:36 <kasei> ... can probably put it out as FPWD
14:37:42 <kasei> ... any opinions?
14:37:56 <kasei> link in the agenda doesn't work
14:38:01 <AndyS>
14:38:32 <AxelPolleres>
14:38:48 <kasei> maybe just for me
14:38:54 <kasei> q+
14:39:23 <ivan> ack kasei 
14:39:28 <LeeF> I don't think the overview document is ready to be published. 
14:39:53 <kasei> kasei: more comfortable if FPWD on overview if there was content in the major sections
14:40:04 <kasei> ivan: not intended for a rec document, right?
14:40:10 <kasei> ... timing is different than for other docs.
14:40:20 <kasei> ... no urgency to publish the overview right now.
14:40:56 <AndyS> Axel: Overview is not REC track, it's a NOTE
14:41:01 <AxelPolleres> no urgency for Overview document at the moment, if we publish as note, no hurry
14:41:06 <pgearon_> pgearon_ has joined #sparql
14:41:29 <kasei> AxelPolleres: that's it for the agenda. hoping next week we can discuss LET/BIND.
14:41:42 <AxelPolleres> q?
14:41:43 <kasei> ... any other issues?
14:41:51 <kasei> AndyS: are we actually having a meeting next week?
14:42:02 <kasei> AxelPolleres: who is not around next week?
14:42:03 <ivan> I am at risk
14:42:05 <AxelPolleres> regrets for next week?
14:42:32 <AndyS> I am around.  Seems to be only me.  Decisions, decisions.
14:42:53 <bglimm> I am
14:43:01 <kasei> AxelPolleres: hard to have a chair next week. ok to skip next week?
14:43:19 <AxelPolleres> ivan?, axel, lee, souri
14:43:25 <kasei> ivan: propose you wait for sandro to come back and ask him if he can chair.
14:43:38 <LeeF> Steve is still on holiday next week, right?
14:43:43 <LeeF> could be a very productive meeting :)
14:44:06 <kasei> AndyS: propose chairs send out email for next week so progress can be made even without a telecon.
14:44:35 <pgearon_> pgearon_ has left #sparql
14:45:21 <ivan> zakim, drop me
14:45:21 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
14:45:22 <Zakim> -Ivan
14:45:23 <Zakim> -LeeF
14:45:25 <Zakim> -??P33
14:45:26 <Zakim> - +1.603.897.aadd
14:45:27 <AxelPolleres> adjourned
14:45:27 <Zakim> -bglimm
14:45:28 <Zakim> -MattPerry
14:45:32 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby
14:45:38 <Zakim> -AndyS
14:46:04 <Zakim> -kasei
14:46:07 <AxelPolleres> axel: please try to get the promised reivews in in time, possibly earlier, such that we can decide to publish WDs in 2, latest 3 weeks.