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Chatlog 2010-04-27
From SPARQL Working Group
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13:51:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql 13:51:37 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/27-sparql-irc 13:51:41 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql 13:51:51 <AxelPolleres> zakim, thi will be SPARQL 13:51:51 <Zakim> I don't understand 'thi will be SPARQL', AxelPolleres 13:52:00 <AxelPolleres> zakim, this will be sparql 13:52:00 <Zakim> ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes 13:56:28 <dcharbon2> dcharbon2 has joined #sparql 13:57:00 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql 13:57:31 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started 13:57:38 <Zakim> +??P1 13:57:41 <AndyS> zakim, ??P1 is me 13:57:41 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it 13:58:33 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby 13:58:39 <Zakim> +pgearon 13:58:41 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaaa 13:58:50 <MattPerry> zakim, aaaa is me 13:58:50 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it 13:59:27 <Zakim> +bglimm 14:00:04 <Zakim> + +1.310.729.aabb 14:00:15 <kasei> Zakim, aabb is me 14:00:15 <Zakim> +kasei; got it 14:00:25 <SteveH_> SteveH_ has joined #sparql 14:00:33 <Zakim> +dcharbon2 14:01:09 <Zakim> + +04312aacc 14:01:12 <Zakim> +[Garlik] 14:01:26 <SteveH_> Zakim, [Garlik] is temporarily SteveH 14:01:26 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it 14:01:27 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone? 14:01:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, OlivierCorby, pgearon, MattPerry, bglimm, kasei, dcharbon2, +04312aacc, SteveH 14:01:51 <AxelPolleres> Agenda... http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-04-27 14:01:51 <AxelPolleres> Regrets: Souripriya, LeeF 14:01:51 <AxelPolleres> chair: Axel Polleres 14:01:51 <AxelPolleres> scribe: Olivier Corby 14:02:15 <kasei> very loud typing 14:02:33 <Zakim> + +1.216.636.aadd 14:02:37 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me 14:02:37 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted 14:02:51 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aadd is Chime 14:02:51 <Zakim> +Chime; got it 14:03:17 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql 14:03:34 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin 14:03:39 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-20 14:03:56 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-20 14:04:43 <OlivierCorby> Next F2F location ? 14:05:18 <OlivierCorby> Colocate with TPAC in Lyon France ? 14:06:00 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me 14:06:00 <Zakim> sorry, chimezie, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 14:06:01 <bglimm> When is the TPAC in Lyon? 14:06:14 <AndyS> November 1-5 14:06:16 <SteveH_> I can't do those dates 14:06:26 <kasei> not impossible, but I suspect unlikely that I'd be able to make it. 14:06:27 <SteveH_> I can do 1-3 14:06:36 <chimezie> Zakim, who is on the phone? 14:06:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, OlivierCorby, pgearon, MattPerry, bglimm (muted), kasei, dcharbon2, +04312aacc, SteveH, Chime 14:06:39 <AxelPolleres> q? 14:06:44 <bglimm> Should be ok 14:06:47 <AndyS> ISWC is Nov 7-11 14:06:48 <chimezie> Zakim, Chime is me 14:06:48 <Zakim> +chimezie; got it 14:07:04 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/05/sparql-phase-II-charter.html 14:07:37 <SteveH_> I hope that we don't need a F2F by nov... 14:07:46 <AndyS> What is the timescale? LC, CR etc? 14:07:53 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me 14:07:53 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted 14:08:12 <OlivierCorby> Do we need a F2F before Nov ? 14:08:28 <bglimm> It probably depends on how many/what kind of comments we get during LC 14:08:33 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/05/sparql-phase-II-charter.html#milestones 14:09:49 <OlivierCorby> Last Call in June 14:10:04 <AndyS> Unlikely. 14:11:20 <OlivierCorby> Last Call without F2F ? 14:11:55 <AxelPolleres> we might be able to do without another f2f2, before LC is unlikely planningwise. 14:13:01 <AxelPolleres> andyS; we might just block some solid time rather than all needing to travel. 14:13:23 <AxelPolleres> ... specifical telecons and realistic deadlines. 14:13:45 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone? 14:13:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, OlivierCorby, pgearon, MattPerry, bglimm (muted), kasei, dcharbon2, +04312aacc, SteveH, chimezie (muted) 14:14:04 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: come up with a proposed re-schedule and suggestion on how to proceed until Rec 14:14:04 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - come 14:14:15 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to come up with a proposed re-schedule and suggestion on how to proceed until Rec 14:14:15 <trackbot> Created ACTION-226 - Come up with a proposed re-schedule and suggestion on how to proceed until Rec [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-05-04]. 14:14:42 <bglimm> there was a comment by Kjetil 14:14:49 <OlivierCorby> Comment handling: not tody 14:14:57 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone? 14:14:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, OlivierCorby, pgearon, MattPerry, bglimm (muted), kasei, dcharbon2, +04312aacc, SteveH, chimezie (muted) 14:15:01 <OlivierCorby> s/tody/today 14:15:13 <OlivierCorby> Liaisons 14:15:22 <OlivierCorby> RIF to PR 14:15:25 <AxelPolleres> RIF decided to move to PR 14:15:25 <AxelPolleres> summary: we have to decide re-schedule to LC and Rec, need for further f2f among chairs soon 14:15:51 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me 14:15:51 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted 14:16:04 <AxelPolleres> topic: actions from last time on rewordings 14:16:06 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0066.html 14:16:16 <AxelPolleres> q? 14:16:26 <bglimm> Each SPARQL extension MUST provide conditions, which guarantee 14:16:26 <bglimm> that the set of triples obtained by instantiating BGP with each 14:16:27 <bglimm> solution μ is uniquely specified up to RDF graph equivalence, and 14:16:27 <bglimm> SHOULD provide further conditions to prevent trivial infinite answers 14:16:27 <bglimm> as appropriate to the regime. 14:17:26 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Accept rewording for condition 4 for BGP extensions as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0066.html 14:17:52 <bglimm> +1 14:17:56 <AxelPolleres> +1 14:17:57 <chimezie> +1 14:18:00 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Accept rewording for condition 4 for BGP extensions as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0066.html 14:18:39 <AndyS> It's already done. 14:18:49 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me 14:18:49 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted 14:18:50 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/222 14:18:59 <bglimm> I already updated the entailment doc too to reflect the rewording 14:19:07 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-mobile 14:19:07 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made 14:19:09 <Zakim> +EricP 14:19:16 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me 14:19:16 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted 14:20:32 <chimezie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0067.html 14:21:26 <AxelPolleres> ISSUE-49: can this be closed wrt. rewording proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0067.html? 14:21:26 <trackbot> ISSUE-49 Is a graph an information resource notes added 14:23:11 <OlivierCorby> Question about URI with fragment 14:23:23 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: chime to clarify question about URIs with fragment ids 14:23:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-227 - Clarify question about URIs with fragment ids [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2010-05-04]. 14:24:31 <kasei> after reading that email, i'm still not sure which way we've resolved issue 49. 14:25:04 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: close issue-49 with rewording from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0067.html and ACTION-227 14:25:15 <kasei> q+ 14:27:13 <kasei> before we resolve issue 49, could we see a draft response to KjetilK's comment email? 14:25:04 <AxelPolleres> summary: ISSUE-49 remains open, should probably be closed upon ACTION-227 been completed. 14:27:16 <AxelPolleres> topic: federated query document 14:27:18 <kasei> (after ericP) 14:27:26 <AxelPolleres> q? 14:27:33 <kasei> q- 14:28:41 <AxelPolleres> ericP: explains rationale behind SERVICE keyword 14:28:47 <OlivierCorby> Integrate service into query syntax 14:30:20 <kasei> ericP, link? 14:30:52 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/fed/service.xml 14:31:25 <AndyS> 4.2 link is "#update" !!!! 14:32:24 <AxelPolleres> Eric: what about conformance, do we want all SPARQL implementations to support this? 14:33:09 <AxelPolleres> Axel: does this really raise the bar? 14:33:31 <OlivierCorby> q+ 14:34:32 <AxelPolleres> olivier: syntax has URI , could we also have variable? 14:34:36 <AndyS> Grammar has variable : VarOrIRIref 14:34:59 <AxelPolleres> ericP: might have use cases 14:35:24 <AxelPolleres> ... for asking all endpoints I know. 14:35:24 <kasei> I see grammar having just IRIref...? 14:35:52 <AxelPolleres> andy: we could assure that at point of evaluation the variable needs to be bound 14:35:59 <AxelPolleres> s/assure/require/ 14:36:42 <AxelPolleres> ericP: question is what interoperability we rerquire on behavior of that feature (variables for SERVICE) 14:36:57 <AxelPolleres> ... but raises the bar for implementers possibly. 14:37:12 <kasei> q+ to note that if SERVICE isn't required of 1.1 implementation, we should have a service description feature URI for it. 14:37:31 <AxelPolleres> ack OlivierCorby 14:38:09 <AxelPolleres> ack kasei 14:38:09 <Zakim> kasei, you wanted to note that if SERVICE isn't required of 1.1 implementation, we should have a service description feature URI for it. 14:39:40 <AxelPolleres> axel: let's publish it with the next round, similar to property paths, as separate doc, requesting for comments. 14:40:22 <SteveH_> lots of background noise 14:41:03 <kasei> i like the variable idea, but it fills me with The Fear 14:41:29 <SteveH_> +1 to kasei 14:41:32 <AxelPolleres> axel: Option 1 : no variables, Option 2 is any variables,� Option 3 bound only variables 14:41:54 <SteveH_> what does "bound only" mean? 14:41:55 <AndyS> +1 to option 1 14:41:56 <dcharbon2> Option 1 - could relax later if needed/desired 14:41:58 <MattPerry> +1 for no variables 14:41:59 <AndyS> opps 14:42:01 <SteveH_> leaning to no variables though 14:42:02 <AndyS> +1 to option 2 14:42:04 <pgearon> +1 no variables 14:42:12 <chimezie> +0 14:42:19 <bglimm> 0 (no clear understanding of the implications) 14:42:23 <kasei> +1 to option 1 (leave variables as an extentions people can implement) 14:42:25 <OlivierCorby> 2 or 3 14:42:31 <AxelPolleres> +1 to Option 1 (with Option 3 sounding interesting, but not sure about doable in time) 14:43:06 <AndyS> opt 3 is meaningless in the current doc BTW join(A,B) == join(B,A) 14:45:21 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: ericP to put in an editor's note discussing bound only variables 14:45:21 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - ericP 14:45:42 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: eric to put in an editor's note discussing bound only variables 14:45:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-228 - Put in an editor's note discussing bound only variables [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2010-05-04]. 14:46:47 <AxelPolleres> summary: in principle we want to publish fed queries as separate doc in the next round. 14:46:57 <AxelPolleres> q? 14:47:07 <ericP> caio all! 14:47:17 <OlivierCorby> topic : Publication 14:47:18 <Zakim> -EricP 14:47:28 <AxelPolleres> topic: next publications 14:48:25 <AxelPolleres> query? 14:48:33 <AxelPolleres> q? 14:49:03 <AxelPolleres> ack aacc 14:49:05 <SteveH_> q= 14:49:10 <SteveH_> queue= 14:49:19 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aacc is me 14:49:19 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres; got it 14:49:27 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me 14:49:27 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted 14:50:58 <AxelPolleres> andy to resenc summary to the list. 14:51:02 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0085.html 14:51:44 <AxelPolleres> query seems to progress well enough to warrant another publication 14:51:53 <AxelPolleres> update? 14:52:35 <AndyS> syntax? 14:52:56 <AxelPolleres> paul: changes can be in the doc by the end of the week. 14:53:33 <AxelPolleres> ... which would include all the F2F discussed changes. 14:54:15 <AxelPolleres> andy: update syntax needs to be pinned down. 14:55:32 <AxelPolleres> paul please reply to the list with a summary 14:55:48 <AxelPolleres> entailment? 14:57:10 <AxelPolleres> changes in the conditions and for LC we'd need to fix whether we want Datatype only entailment (currently a note), basically ready for review 14:58:49 <AxelPolleres> greg: chasing sandro for fixing final issue before ready to review. 14:58:56 <kasei> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0082.html 14:59:03 <AxelPolleres> that was service description. 14:59:38 <AxelPolleres> http-update 14:59:57 <AxelPolleres> ISSUE-20, ISSUE-49 need to be addressed. 15:00:48 <AxelPolleres> ISSUE-20 is closed by f2f3 15:00:56 <AxelPolleres> so the note can be removed. 15:01:22 <bglimm> Should I remove the closed issues from the related issues section of the document? 15:01:29 <AxelPolleres> propertypaths? 15:02:03 <AxelPolleres> currently a placeholder pointing to the document. will be included time allowed for next publication round. 15:02:43 <Zakim> -SteveH 15:02:46 <MattPerry> bye 15:02:50 <AxelPolleres> adjourned. 15:02:50 <Zakim> -dcharbon2 15:02:53 <Zakim> -AndyS 15:02:55 <Zakim> -bglimm 15:02:57 <Zakim> -chimezie 15:02:58 <Zakim> -kasei 15:02:58 <Zakim> -MattPerry 15:02:59 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby 15:02:59 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres 15:03:04 <Zakim> -pgearon 15:03:06 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended 15:03:08 <Zakim> Attendees were AndyS, OlivierCorby, pgearon, +1.603.897.aaaa, MattPerry, bglimm, +1.310.729.aabb, kasei, dcharbon2, +04312aacc, SteveH, +1.216.636.aadd, chimezie, EricP, 15:03:11 <Zakim> ... AxelPolleres 15:03:30 <OlivierCorby> OlivierCorby has left #sparql 15:03:32 <AxelPolleres> summary: all editors to resend their status summary to the list, please try to get to reviewable status by next week. 15:03:36 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. DO NOT EDIT THIS LINE OR BELOW. SRCLINESUSED=00000222