Chatlog 2010-01-26

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14:46:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
14:46:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/01/26-sparql-irc
14:47:00 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:47:00 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
14:47:02 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
14:47:02 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
14:47:03 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:47:03 <trackbot> Date: 26 January 2010
14:47:12 <ivanh> Chair: IvanH
14:47:31 <ivanH> Regrets: Lee, Axel, Alex
14:47:47 <bglimm> bglimm has joined #sparql
14:51:24 <tommik> tommik has joined #sparql
14:52:52 <tommik> yes i'm ready
14:53:06 <ivanH> thanks!
14:53:11 <ivanH> scribe: Tommi
14:53:16 <ivanH> scribenick: tommik
14:53:55 <ivanH> Regrets+ Souri
14:56:05 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
14:56:12 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:56:22 <AndyS> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:56:22 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:56:36 <ivanH> zakim, dial ivanH-voip
14:56:36 <Zakim> ok, ivanH; the call is being made
14:56:37 <Zakim> +IvanH
14:57:36 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql
14:57:37 <Zakim> +bglimm
14:57:44 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:57:44 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:57:52 <Zakim> +dcharbon2
14:58:13 <dcharbon2> Zakim, mute me
14:58:13 <Zakim> dcharbon2 should now be muted
14:58:55 <Zakim> +??P17
14:59:16 <ivanH> zakim, ??P17 is MattPerry
14:59:16 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it
14:59:37 <Zakim> +pgearon
15:00:12 <Zakim> +tommik
15:00:45 <ivanH> Topic: admin
15:00:47 <ivanH> -> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-01-12 last week's minutes
15:01:52 <AndyS> Next meeting - 2 Feb 2010
15:01:59 <bglimm> yes
15:02:03 <bglimm> I hear you
15:03:08 <Zakim> +??P30
15:03:12 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P30 is SteveH 
15:03:12 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
15:03:13 <ivanH> Topic: f2f meeting
15:03:38 <bglimm> I thought we had decided
15:03:42 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
15:03:42 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
15:03:45 <tommik> ivanH: where does meeting takes place in europe?
15:04:53 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/F2F3
15:05:02 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:05:18 <AndyS> I thought we'd decided on Oxford.
15:05:51 <SteveH> me too
15:06:21 <tommik> ???: will provide information about hotels etc. in website
15:06:28 <ivanH> s/???/Birte/
15:06:37 <ivanH> Topic: comments
15:06:45 <ivanH> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments
15:07:29 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:07:45 <sandro> (Sorry, another meeting ran late.)
15:08:30 <AndyS> Can chase ldodds for LD-1
15:08:57 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
15:08:57 <Zakim> bglimm was not muted, bglimm
15:09:26 <tommik> ivanH: kindly responses needed to be sent open questions
15:11:18 <ivanH> Topic: Test suite
15:13:01 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
15:13:01 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
15:15:43 <tommik> O
15:15:57 <tommik> I'm sorry not hearing very well
15:18:27 <SteveH> typing noise
15:18:53 <SteveH> who's typing?
15:19:01 <AndyS> 440 tests in the DAWG test suite 
15:19:06 <tommik> ivanH: it will take time to get tests
15:19:28 <tommik> ivanH: how many tests in current implementations?
15:19:30 <tommik> ???: none
15:19:39 <SteveH> ???=pgearon 
15:19:46 <tommik> s/???/pgearon/
15:19:47 <AndyS> 199 are syntax tests
15:19:48 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
15:19:48 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
15:20:13 <SteveH> Zakim, who's speaking
15:20:13 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's speaking', SteveH
15:20:16 <tommik> bglimm: one could convert some owl test cases
15:21:16 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
15:21:16 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
15:21:23 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/r2
15:21:41 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/README.html
15:21:57 <SteveH> Document Editor Lee Feigenbaum
15:22:23 <AndyS> Test available via CVS and HTTP: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data-r2/
15:22:29 <AndyS> + a download
15:22:51 <tommik> ivanH: are these done by hand or automatically?
15:23:13 <SteveH> can we take a moment to find out where the typing noise is coming from, it's making it hard to hear
15:23:21 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/impl-report-ql
15:23:33 <SteveH> before that
15:25:54 <pgearon> I'd like to note that the SPARQL 1 tests were not linked off the SPARQL Query pages
15:26:10 <pgearon> I only ever found them via Google searches
15:26:19 <AndyS> "SPARQL Query pages" = ??
15:28:15 <pgearon> The original tests have several result formats. Some of them are extensible, so I think it should be useable for the next round
15:28:15 <tommik> sandro: the workflow is irrelevant issue, big question is who does them
15:29:49 <AndyS> q+
15:30:34 <ivanH> ack AndyS 
15:30:34 <tommik> ivanH: to talk to eric and lee about this topic and find somebody who organizes this work
15:31:56 <tommik> ivanH: can andy post about the format to maillist
15:32:03 <tommik> andy: yes
15:32:16 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/README.html
15:32:22 <tommik> ivanH: a wikipage for pointers
15:32:57 <ivanH> Topic: publication 
15:33:12 <tommik> ivanH: not sure where we are now exactly
15:34:08 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/TestingQuery
15:34:54 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Category:Testing
15:35:44 <tommik> ???: many manual steps, coordination between axel and the editors
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15:36:13 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
15:37:04 <Zakim> + +1.937.775.aaaa
15:37:17 <Prateek> Zakim, +1.937.775.aaaa is Prateek
15:37:17 <Zakim> +Prateek; got it
15:37:56 <bglimm> Hm, it seems I better only use references to SPARQL 1.0 to not get broken links/fragments
15:39:42 <bglimm> I think you have to work on the gen.html file, right?
15:40:33 <dcharbon2> yes
15:40:41 <dcharbon2> yes
15:41:12 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
15:41:12 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
15:42:43 <sandro> Broken fragments:
15:42:43 <sandro>     * http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/gen.html#sec-cvsLog-meat (line 96)
15:43:18 <tommik> ivanH: editors will do what they can for these
15:43:54 <bglimm> I'll check the entailment doc now
15:45:35 <pgearon> I've done it. I'm just checking to see which are false positives
15:46:23 <tommik> sandro: not sure whether publication takes place tomorrow
15:47:26 <bglimm> Do I have to fix: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/gen.html#sec-cvsLog-meat?
15:48:47 <AndyS> Some of the query broken links are in the CVS log.
15:48:56 <ivanH> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:48:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/26-sparql-minutes.html ivan
15:49:10 <AndyS> ADJOURNED
15:49:14 <Zakim> -MattPerry
15:49:24 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:49:26 <Zakim> -IvanH
15:49:30 <Zakim> -Prateek
15:49:32 <Zakim> -bglimm
15:49:38 <Zakim> -pgearon
15:49:42 <Zakim> -tommik
15:51:04 <Zakim> -dcharbon2
15:52:58 <dcharbon2> Ivan, looking at some of the broken links for Protocol - I wonder if they should be fixed or not. For example, this link is broken: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/#grammar and the fix, I guess, would be http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/rq25.xml#grammar
15:53:48 <dcharbon2> however, shouldn't http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/ be the same as http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/rq25.xml?
15:54:09 <bglimm> I have the same problem, but I thought I just point to the old SPARQL spec for now because rq25.xml will be renamed
15:54:30 <sandro> when in doubt, don't change anything.
15:54:42 <sandro> ... since we don't know what the scripts do.
15:54:54 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:54:58 <Zakim> -SteveH
15:54:59 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
15:55:00 <Zakim> Attendees were AndyS, Ivan, bglimm, dcharbon2, MattPerry, pgearon, tommik, SteveH, [IPcaller], Sandro, Prateek
15:56:01 <bglimm> Well, the problem is, how can I reference the SPARQL 1.1 query spec that is published in this round because in the current document is only the new stuff, whereas in this round the draft is merged with the old spec and Axel  suggested that I refer to the 1.1 spec throughout
15:56:54 <sandro> Sorry, I have no idea.   E-mail Axel, cc the group.
15:57:22 <sandro> (this is all stuff I solved for RIF and OWL, using my own publication tools, but SPARQL chose not to use them.)
15:58:33 <AndyS> What is the W3C normal way of doing this?  We were informed that the xmlspec route was the common practice in W3C.  What did RIF and OWL use?
15:59:15 <sandro> They used something I wrote, which involved keeping the documents on a wiki.     I understand some folks prefer not to do that, which I can understand.
16:00:54 <sandro> I'm afraid I don't know how folks maintain links between documents using xmlspec.
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16:44:08 <AndyS> Should we move to using the wiki?  I have no experience of either process.
16:47:53 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #sparql
16:48:14 <AxelPolleres> hi all
16:48:24 <bglimm> In the beginning the wiki was apparently painful because it was very slow. 
16:48:27 <AxelPolleres> (was caught in univ meetings)
16:48:53 <AxelPolleres> did sandro raise the editorial issues/broken links in tha call?
16:48:53 <bglimm> After a server update it seemed to have worked much better, but not all OWL people I know liked it. 
16:48:57 <bglimm> yes
16:49:26 <bglimm> Managing common bib entries and such was very nice with the wiki Boris said. 
16:50:00 <bglimm> Axel, I've send an email about which links I fixed, but I don't know what to do with the links to SPARQL Query 1.1
16:50:39 <AndyS> I've done what I can.
16:50:50 <AxelPolleres> ok. will check now. thanks all
16:52:24 <pgearon> bglimm, I've gone with links back to Query 1.0 for the time being. Once the anchors appear again I'll update the links to Query 1.1
16:53:45 <bglimm> Ok, I could do the same. Axel, do you want m to go back to Query 1.0 links?
16:57:06 <AxelPolleres> yeah, maybe that's the easiest for now, if it's just for the links.
16:57:29 <AxelPolleres> you work all directly on the transformed html files, yes?
16:58:20 <AxelPolleres> (I added some boilerplate text which wasn't yet there in the XML versions... we should port that to the XML for the next versions. 
16:58:22 <AxelPolleres> )
16:59:04 <AndyS> I edited the XML version - rq25.xml.
17:06:56 <bglimm> I work on the gen.html, but try to also do the changes on the xml version, so that I don't have to fix the next generated file all over again.
17:16:49 <bglimm> I tried to run xmlproc on my xml file to generate test.html, but once I upload test.html I get a "you don't have sufficient rights to view this file" error, when I want to see it in the browser or validate it. I didn't want to just overwrite gen.html, so I then decided to just edit gen.html directly
17:18:25 <bglimm> Axel, I now only have http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-sparql11-entailment-20100126/ not found (that is from the W3C header and points to the then published spec) and  http://www.websemanticsjournal.org is still unavailable. I could remove the link from the references to get that fixed.
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17:53:59 <AxelPolleres> hmmm, I find this a bit overpicky by the checker... to be honest. I mean, it complains about  403 from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiset
17:59:27 <AxelPolleres> I whatever, I just removed the link. maybe just do the same, Birte. THe http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-sparql11-entailment-20100126/ can of course stay, that will be fixed.
18:03:15 <bglimm> Ok, I removed that link. Now I only have the broken link to the published spec itself, which is ok as you say
18:06:03 <AxelPolleres> yup.
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