Chatlog 2010-01-05

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15:01:11 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
15:01:11 <RRSAgent> logging to
15:01:15 <AndyS> We do!
15:01:22 <AxelPolleres> trackbot, start meeting - 
15:01:23 <AxelPolleres> regrets: LeeF, PaulG
15:01:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:01:26 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
15:01:27 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
15:01:27 <trackbot> Date: 05 January 2010
15:01:30 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P4 is [Garlik]
15:01:35 <Zakim> +??P18
15:01:40 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now
15:01:42 <Zakim> I already had ??P4 as ??P4, SteveH
15:01:46 <SteveH> Zakim, [Garlik] has SteveH, LukeWM 
15:01:54 <Zakim> sorry, SteveH, I do not recognize a party named '[Garlik]'
15:01:54 <MattPerry> zakim, ??P4 is me
15:01:58 <Zakim> I already had ??P4 as ??P4, MattPerry
15:02:04 <Ivan Herman> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:02:05 <MattPerry> sorry
15:02:05 <SteveH> MattPerry, ??P4 is us
15:02:06 <Zakim> ok, Ivan Herman; the call is being made
15:02:15 <MattPerry> zakim, ??P18 is me
15:02:17 <SteveH> ...I think
15:02:20 <Zakim> I already had ??P18 as ??P18, MattPerry
15:02:42 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has changed the topic to:
15:02:45 <Souri> Souri has joined #sparql
15:02:48 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P4 is temporarily [Garlik]
15:02:52 <Zakim> I already had ??P4 as ??P4, SteveH
15:03:00 <SteveH> Zakim, P4 is [Garlik]
15:03:02 <Zakim> sorry, SteveH, I do not recognize a party named 'P4'
15:03:17 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
15:03:18 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I don't know what conference this is
15:03:22 <AxelPolleres> hmmm, I have some echo...
15:03:27 <sandro> zakim, this is sparql
15:03:32 <Zakim> ok, sandro; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM
15:03:32 <LukeWM> zakim, what's wrong with you?
15:03:34 <Zakim> +??P26
15:03:36 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, LukeWM.
15:03:38 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
15:03:38 <AlexPassant> Zakim: ??P26 is me
15:03:42 <AlexPassant> Zakim, ??P26 is me
15:03:44 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it
15:03:54 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:56 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Souri (29%), Axel (59%), Ivan Herman (11%)
15:04:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see dcharbon2, bglimm, kasei, AndyS, ??P18, Ivan Herman, Axel, Sandro, tkoivula, Souri, AlexPassant
15:04:04 <Zakim> +??P4
15:04:11 <sandro> What was wrong with Zakim was that no one had said "Zakim, this is sparql"
15:04:13 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P4 is [Garlik]
15:04:13 <Zakim> +[Garlik]; got it
15:04:19 <MattPerry> zakim, ??P18 is me
15:04:19 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it
15:04:40 <LukeWM> Zakim, Garlik has LukeWM, SteveH
15:04:40 <Zakim> +LukeWM, SteveH; got it
15:04:45 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see dcharbon2, bglimm, kasei, AndyS, MattPerry, Ivan Herman, Axel, Sandro, tkoivula, Souri, AlexPassant, [Garlik]
15:04:48 <Zakim> [Garlik] has LukeWM, SteveH
15:05:01 <AlexPassant> ok
15:05:12 <AxelPolleres> scribe: Alex Passant
15:05:24 <AxelPolleres> scribenick:AlexPassant
15:05:32 <AxelPolleres>
15:05:49 <AlexPassant> AxelPolleres: main goal is to check how far we are on the reviews
15:05:53 <AlexPassant> ... + discuss schedule 
15:05:58 <AlexPassant> topic: admin issues
15:06:03 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at
15:06:14 <AlexPassant> AxelPolleres: minutes approval - any objections ?
15:06:21 <AlexPassant> ... minutes approved
15:06:22 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at
15:06:30 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
15:06:38 <AlexPassant> ... next meeting next week
15:06:49 <chimezie> Zakim, passcode?
15:06:49 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), chimezie
15:06:50 <AlexPassant> ... dcharbon2 will scribe
15:07:09 <AlexPassant> ... updates on comments ?
15:07:09 <AxelPolleres> any updates?
15:07:19 <Zakim> +Chimezie_Ogbuji
15:07:26 <AlexPassant> ... no updated
15:07:29 <AxelPolleres> topic: liaisons
15:07:32 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
15:07:32 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
15:07:35 <AxelPolleres> no updates.
15:07:47 <AlexPassant> topic: Document reviews
15:08:03 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
15:08:03 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
15:08:13 <AlexPassant> AxelPolleres: schedule: publish in 2 weeks max
15:08:18 <AlexPassant> ... few reviews missing
15:08:31 <AlexPassant> ... kindly ask reviewers to review in the next few days
15:08:39 <AlexPassant> ... so that we can decide on publishing next week
15:09:01 <AxelPolleres>
15:09:04 <AlexPassant> ... first: query document
15:09:18 <AlexPassant> ... several reviews from bglimm, Souri, AxelPolleres and MattPerry 
15:09:24 <AlexPassant> ... andy to summarize
15:09:36 <AlexPassant> AndyS: nothing outstanding on the query side
15:09:47 <AlexPassant> ... if so, please remind
15:10:48 <AlexPassant> Souri: sent another e-mail with minor question
15:11:02 <AlexPassant> ... not a critical one
15:11:34 <AlexPassant> ... reviewers should check if their comments have been addressed
15:11:39 <bglimm> fine with me
15:11:48 <AlexPassant> ... will not give separate actions to reviewers
15:12:13 <AxelPolleres> q?
15:12:14 <AlexPassant> ... everyone is free to make some comments, but please keep the schedule in mind
15:12:37 <AlexPassant> ... next doc: Update
15:12:45 <AxelPolleres>
15:12:51 <AlexPassant> ... Paul sent regrets, difficult to discuss it today
15:12:59 <AlexPassant> ... quick look through the reviews sent so far
15:13:19 <AlexPassant> AndyS: comments not addressed so far
15:13:30 <AlexPassant> AxelPolleres: postpone discussion until Paul is back
15:13:34 <Souri> Please replace 20100126 with 2010126 in
15:14:09 <Souri> sorry the other way
15:14:17 <AlexPassant> ... next: protocol
15:14:18 <AxelPolleres>
15:14:45 <AlexPassant> dcharbon2: short update - hoping to get some feedback
15:15:27 <AlexPassant> ... mail not yet in the archives
15:15:29 <AxelPolleres> i can't see your mail in the archives:
15:15:32 <AlexPassant> ... sent about 1h ago
15:16:57 <AlexPassant> dcharbon2: should we update to WSDL2.0 
15:17:29 <sandro> 3 messages from dcharbon approved
15:18:21 <AxelPolleres> q?
15:19:07 <AlexPassant> AxelPolleres: did we agree on getting only HTTP POST for the update
15:19:15 <AlexPassant> AndyS: cannot do update with a GET by HTTP design
15:19:42 <AxelPolleres> probably POST is the only reasonable way to do it.
15:20:02 <AxelPolleres> ... true.
15:20:23 <AlexPassant> dcharbon2: graphs do exit / vs do not exist when updating data
15:20:32 <SteveH> under what circumstances are those errors?
15:20:37 <AlexPassant> ... query gramatically correct but error when running it - suggestion to add a new error 
15:20:40 <SteveH> don't we have an open issue about this?
15:20:56 <AndyS> q+
15:21:04 <AlexPassant> ... ... should we have something more generic (e.g. semantic execution fault)
15:21:11 <AlexPassant> AndyS: how this maps down to HTTP 
15:21:22 <AlexPassant> ... caring about the corresponding HTTP code
15:22:11 <AxelPolleres> 5xx codes reflect that something went wrong.
15:22:20 <SteveH> yes, 500 soundsw wrong to me
15:22:27 <AlexPassant> dcharbon2: last question on the update doc
15:22:42 <AlexPassant> ... protocol could be conformat by implementing only a subset of the interface
15:22:51 <AlexPassant> ... seems not to be the case with WSDL
15:23:17 <AndyS> ack me
15:24:34 <AlexPassant> ... have to implement one or both to be compliant ?
15:26:05 <AxelPolleres> todo for dcharbon2: WSDL and types update, and pointers from the overview doc.
15:26:32 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: dcharbon2 send mail about readiness for review by tonight
15:26:32 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - dcharbon2
15:26:32 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. dcharbon2, dnewman2)
15:26:50 <AlexPassant> AxelPolleres: reviewers needed for protocol
15:27:09 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: dcharbon2 send mail about readiness for review by tonight
15:27:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-173 - Send mail about readiness for review by tonight [on David Charboneau - due 2010-01-12].
15:27:29 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to review protocol changes
15:27:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-174 - Review protocol changes [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-01-12].
15:27:39 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, pick a victim
15:27:39 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose [Garlik]
15:28:27 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Luke to review protocol changes
15:28:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-175 - Review protocol changes [on Luke Wilson-Mawer - due 2010-01-12].
15:28:47 <AxelPolleres>
15:28:49 <AlexPassant> ... next document: Service Description
15:30:03 <AlexPassant> kasei: before publication, would like to add a link to entailement profiles URIs
15:30:11 <AlexPassant> ... get the RDF published for the vocab as well
15:30:24 <AlexPassant> ... will check with Ivan / Sandro about the RDF
15:30:26 <Ivan Herman> q+
15:30:37 <AlexPassant> ... commited comments yesterday on future things (not for that draft)
15:30:53 <AlexPassant> ... just a few things to address before publishing
15:31:15 <AlexPassant> Ivan Herman: happy to publish the RDF
15:31:23 <AlexPassant> ... discussed RDFa version in the email
15:31:37 <AlexPassant> ... can be postpone to a later stage
15:31:44 <AlexPassant> kasei: happy with RDF/XML at the moment
15:31:53 <AlexPassant> +1 on kasei
15:31:57 <AxelPolleres> +1 RDF/XML for the first version RDFa as an option for future 
15:32:51 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: greg to ensure RDF Schema gets published in time
15:32:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-176 - Ensure RDF Schema gets published in time [on Gregory Williams - due 2010-01-12].
15:33:13 <AlexPassant> kasei: addressed the issues sent by reviewers
15:34:26 <AxelPolleres>
15:34:36 <AlexPassant> AxelPolleres: next doc - RDF Update
15:34:41 <AlexPassant> ... reviews missing
15:34:42 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
15:34:42 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted
15:35:02 <AlexPassant> chimezie: standing review is AndyS' one
15:35:08 <AlexPassant> ... issues look straightforward
15:35:15 <AlexPassant> ... it not, email correspondance will help
15:35:23 <AxelPolleres>
15:35:40 <AlexPassant> AndyS: issue around graph naming is problematic
15:36:36 <AlexPassant> chimezie: need some interface to specify different URIs to update / delete a graph
15:36:56 <AlexPassant> ... several suggestions (query parameters)
15:37:04 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:37:06 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:37:06 <AlexPassant> ... specify the semantics of the interface should address the problem
15:37:18 <AlexPassant> ... can be addressed in the next round
15:38:24 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to ping all editor's to reply to unresponded reviews.
15:38:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-177 - Ping all editor's to reply to unresponded reviews. [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-01-12].
15:38:28 <AlexPassant> ... can address most of the original comments / suggestions
15:38:48 <AlexPassant> ... could produce a version that incorporate the comments by the next telecon
15:39:00 <AlexPassant> AxelPolleres: should have the other reviews by then
15:39:08 <AlexPassant> ... discuss the last reviews next time
15:39:18 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
15:39:18 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
15:39:24 <AlexPassant> ... next doc : property path document
15:39:25 <AxelPolleres>
15:39:38 <LeeF> LeeF has joined #sparql
15:39:40 <AlexPassant> ... 2 open reviews
15:40:28 <AlexPassant> AndyS: lots of comments (longer period of time)
15:40:33 <AlexPassant> ... now processed all of them
15:40:39 <Ivan Herman> I am fine
15:40:40 <AlexPassant> ... if something is missing, please remind
15:41:16 <Ivan Herman> I have checked and I am happy
15:41:20 <AlexPassant> AxelPolleres: reviewers should check if the comments have been addressed
15:41:27 <Ivan Herman> q+
15:41:30 <AlexPassant> ... then decision on publication on next TC
15:43:37 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Matt to start an email thread about fregments of propertypaths that could be dealt with in SWL
15:43:37 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Matt
15:43:41 <AndyS>
15:44:06 <AxelPolleres> q?
15:44:34 <AlexPassant> Ivan Herman: we may want to do a formal vote on the publishing to go on the request for the shortname
15:45:20 <AlexPassant> sandro: WG resolves the publishing, then do the short name decision
15:45:24 <chimezie> i have to leave right now, unfortunately
15:45:30 <Zakim> -Chimezie_Ogbuji
15:45:32 <AndyS> "sparql11-property-paths" is the natural short name, I think.
15:45:47 <AxelPolleres> strawpoll on the name? sparql11-property-paths
15:45:51 <AlexPassant> AxelPolleres: strawpoll on the shortname ?
15:45:54 <SteveH> q+
15:45:59 <AlexPassant> ... anyone opposed on sparql11-property-paths ?
15:46:01 <Ivan Herman> ack Ivan Herman
15:46:11 <Ivan Herman> q+
15:46:15 <AxelPolleres> q?
15:46:19 <LukeWM> Isn't it just a feature of query?
15:46:47 <AlexPassant> sandro: is the sparql11 prefix in any shortname
15:46:50 <AlexPassant> AxelPolleres: yes
15:47:15 <Ivan Herman> q-
15:47:18 <kasei> I was wondering the same thing as LukeWM.
15:47:27 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: short name for property paths FPWD will be sparql11-property-paths
15:47:32 <SteveH> q?
15:47:51 <AndyS> Luke, if time (;-) but I think it needs a name to publish this round separately as well.
15:48:02 <AlexPassant> SteveH: will it be a standalone doc or part of the query doc in the last call ?
15:48:15 <LukeWM> Ah, I see, so it can be merged across at the very end if required.
15:48:23 <AlexPassant> AxelPolleres: can we include it later in the rec ?
15:48:30 <AlexPassant> Ivan Herman: correct
15:48:54 <AxelPolleres> q?
15:49:03 <SteveH> q-
15:49:20 <AlexPassant> sandro: different window for disclosure but shall not be a problem
15:49:33 <SteveH> if it's going to be rolled into query11 it doesn't matter does it?
15:49:38 <SteveH> which was why I asked
15:50:10 <AlexPassant> AxelPolleres: 2 options sparql11-paths / sparql11-property-paths
15:50:29 <AndyS> For incorporation, only prob I see is one of balance - the pp doc is relatively long for the size of feature compared to rest of feature set.
15:50:34 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
15:50:50 <SteveH> AndyS, I don't see that being a big issue, myself
15:50:59 <AxelPolleres> strawpoll on "property-" ?
15:51:05 <Ivan Herman> +1 for property
15:51:06 <AxelPolleres> 0
15:51:07 <LukeWM> 0
15:51:07 <SteveH> +1
15:51:11 <kasei> 0
15:51:14 <tommik> 0
15:51:14 <bglimm> +1 for property
15:51:17 <AndyS> +1 to property
15:51:23 <AxelPolleres> sandro: -1 to property
15:51:29 <AlexPassant> +1
15:51:36 <Zakim> +??P26
15:51:43 <AlexPassant> Zakim, ??P26 is me
15:51:43 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it
15:51:44 <LeeF> +1 to property-path
15:51:49 <Ivan Herman> +1 for plural
15:51:49 <AndyS> SteveH, agree - merely the bigg*est* issue I could think of.
15:51:51 <AndyS> +1 to plural
15:51:51 <SteveH> +1 to plural
15:51:56 <AlexPassant> +1 for plural
15:52:00 <bglimm> +1 for paths (plural)
15:52:03 <kasei> +1 for plural
15:52:04 <AxelPolleres> strawpoll: plural yes/no? (paths)
15:52:05 <SteveH> AndyS, ah, I see
15:52:07 <LukeWM> +1 for plural
15:52:11 <Souri> 0
15:52:12 <LeeF> 0
15:52:12 <AxelPolleres> sandro: 0
15:52:12 <MattPerry> +0
15:52:13 <tommik> 0
15:52:14 <AxelPolleres> 0
15:52:16 <dcharbon2> 0
15:52:44 <AlexPassant> AxelPolleres: property-paths seems to be the consensus
15:52:51 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: short name for property paths FPWD will be sparql11-property-paths
15:52:57 <Ivan Herman> +1
15:53:08 <AndyS> Seconded
15:53:13 <bglimm> +1
15:53:38 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: short name for property paths FPWD will be sparql11-property-paths
15:53:59 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
15:53:59 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
15:54:01 <AlexPassant> AxelPolleres: nothing more to add on property path ?
15:54:09 <AlexPassant> ... one document open: entailment
15:54:09 <AxelPolleres>
15:54:19 <AlexPassant> bglimm: currently working through ivan's comment
15:54:28 <AlexPassant> ... should be finished today so that ivan can have another look
15:55:31 <AxelPolleres> will try to look through OWL until tomorrow then.
15:55:43 <AlexPassant> ... updated OWL direct semantics with changes that ivan suggested
15:55:57 <AndyS> q+
15:56:35 <AlexPassant> AndyS: trying to respond to every comment, what are the general expectations for comments 
15:56:50 <AlexPassant> ... for the internal reviews
15:57:02 <AlexPassant> ... so that nothing gets lost
15:57:33 <Ivan Herman> q+
15:57:37 <AndyS> ack me
15:58:08 <AlexPassant> Ivan Herman: public comments coming in on the ML
15:58:11 <AxelPolleres>
15:58:25 <AlexPassant> AxelPolleres: should check the comments list if that's up to date + new comments coming
15:58:36 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to check comments archives and add new comments if necessary
15:58:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-178 - Check comments archives and add new comments if necessary [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-01-12].
15:58:53 <AlexPassant> AxelPolleres: anybody can edit the page and pick-up open comments
15:58:57 <AndyS> Are there any glaring late responses currently?
15:59:08 <AlexPassant> ... should go through the comments next week if time permits
16:00:06 <AlexPassant> ... meeting ajourned
16:00:10 <bglimm> bye
16:00:13 <Zakim> -Souri
16:00:14 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:00:15 <Zakim> -bglimm
16:00:16 <Zakim> -dcharbon2
16:00:16 <Zakim> -Ivan Herman
16:00:18 <Zakim> -tkoivula
16:00:19 <AxelPolleres> Alex, will you do the minutes magic?
16:00:20 <Zakim> -[Garlik]
16:00:22 <Zakim> -kasei
16:00:22 <Zakim> -MattPerry
16:00:32 <AlexPassant> yep, will try to recall how to do it