16:59:21 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #RDB2RDF
16:59:21 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/12/15-RDB2RDF-irc
16:59:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:59:23 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #RDB2RDF
16:59:25 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7322733
16:59:25 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute
16:59:26 <trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
16:59:26 <trackbot> Date: 15 December 2009
16:59:36 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #rdb2rdf
16:59:42 <mhausenblas> Chair: Michael
16:59:57 <soeren> soeren has joined #RDB2RDF
17:00:02 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2009Dec/0008.html
17:00:16 <jsequeda> jsequeda has joined #RDB2RDF
17:00:25 <Marcelo> Marcelo has joined #rdb2rdf
17:01:04 <Ashok> Do we have telcons on Dec 22 and 27 ?
17:01:15 <mhausenblas> no, Ashok ;)
17:01:22 <ericP> slackers
17:01:27 <MacTed> Zakim, this is 7322733
17:01:27 <Zakim> ok, MacTed; that matches SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM
17:01:31 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
17:01:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see Seema, +43.316.876.aaaa, +1.562.249.aabb, +039046188aacc, +39.046.188.aadd, Ashok_Malhotra, Souri, [IPcaller], EricP, OpenLink_Software
17:01:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see Marcelo, jsequeda, soeren, Ashok, Zakim, RRSAgent, angela_UNITN, whalb, Seema, Souri, HeikoStoermer, mhausenblas, MacTed, iv_an_ru, trackbot, ericP
17:01:46 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
17:01:48 <Ashok> Thanks, Michael!
17:01:48 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily MacTed
17:01:48 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
17:01:51 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
17:01:51 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
17:01:57 <soeren> zakim, [IPcaller] is soeren
17:01:57 <Zakim> +soeren; got it
17:02:01 <cygri> cygri has joined #rdb2rdf
17:02:03 <whalb> zakim, aaa is me
17:02:03 <Zakim> sorry, whalb, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
17:02:09 <mhausenblas> Zakim, cygri is with me
17:02:09 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
17:02:11 <whalb> zakim, aaaa is me
17:02:11 <Zakim> +whalb; got it
17:02:15 <mhausenblas> scribenick: cygri 
17:02:23 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes 
17:02:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/15-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:02:30 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, make logs public
17:02:40 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
17:02:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Seema, whalb, +1.562.249.aabb, +039046188aacc, +39.046.188.aadd, Ashok_Malhotra, Souri, soeren, EricP, MacTed (muted), mhausenblas
17:02:46 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, cygri
17:02:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see cygri, Marcelo, jsequeda, soeren, Ashok, Zakim, RRSAgent, angela_UNITN, whalb, Seema, Souri, HeikoStoermer, mhausenblas, MacTed, iv_an_ru, trackbot, ericP
17:03:19 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:03:21 <cygri> topic: Admin
17:03:30 <cygri> Topic: Admin
17:04:08 <MacTed> MacTed  = Ted Thibodeau
17:04:16 <MacTed> correct
17:04:46 <angela_UNITN> aacc is me
17:04:53 <MacTed> Zakim, aacc is angela_UNITN
17:04:53 <Zakim> +angela_UNITN; got it
17:04:54 <angela_UNITN> aadd is heiko
17:05:08 <MacTed> Zakim, aadd is HeikoStoermer
17:05:08 <Zakim> +HeikoStoermer; got it
17:05:13 <HeikoStoermer> right
17:05:33 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
17:05:46 <jsequeda> Zakim, aabb is jsequeda
17:05:46 <Zakim> +jsequeda; got it
17:05:49 <mhausenblas> present+ Orri
17:06:18 <cygri> PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of the 8 December 2009 telecon,
17:06:19 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-RDB2RDF-minutes.html
17:06:24 <whalb> +1
17:06:26 <Marcelo> +1
17:06:28 <cygri> +1
17:06:30 <soeren> +1
17:06:48 <cygri> RESOLVED: Accept the minutes of the 8 December 2009 telecon
17:06:52 <cygri> Use Case planning
17:06:55 <cygri> Topic: Use Case planning
17:07:14 <cygri> mhausenblas: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
17:07:23 <cygri> mhausenblas: invite ppl to add their use cases
17:08:12 <cygri> Ashok: format? HTML or only wiki?
17:08:52 <cygri> mhausenblas: initially collaborate on the wiki, then turn into proper WG Note with help of EricP
17:09:08 <cygri> Soeren: present use cases as database schemas?
17:09:48 <cygri> mhausenblas: rather keep it on user level, e.g., "we have a web shop..."
17:10:05 <cygri> or "combine crm system with web shop"
17:10:34 <cygri> for now, it's structured brainstorming
17:11:05 <cygri> number of use cases we're aiming at?
17:11:22 <cygri> EricP: a size that we can manage
17:11:32 <cygri> Topic: Presentation - Okkam/ENS
17:11:50 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/images/c/cf/Okkam.pdf
17:12:03 <cygri> Heiko Störmer is presenting
17:12:35 <cygri> work is part of OKKAM, EU project
17:12:49 <cygri> ENS -- Entity Naming System
17:12:59 <mhausenblas> s/Heiko Störmer/Heiko Stoermer
17:13:05 <cygri> thanks mhausenblas!
17:13:06 <cygri> slide 2
17:13:14 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:13:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/15-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:14:27 <cygri> slide 3
17:14:43 <cygri> ENS provides services for re-use of identifiers
17:14:58 <cygri> several public services
17:15:33 <cygri> ID search, ID creation, ID management (alternative IDs), create+update profiles of entities
17:15:57 <cygri> scalable architecture
17:16:14 <cygri> access through SOAP services, REST is coming
17:16:23 <cygri> web frontends
17:16:59 <cygri> slide 4
17:17:10 <cygri> benefits from using ENS
17:18:08 <cygri> heiko: easily retrieve all data attached to the same ID
17:18:13 <cygri> thx ericP!
17:18:50 <cygri> ... maintain metadata about entities
17:19:10 <cygri> ... profile updates based on popularity
17:19:33 <cygri> ... application in business intelligence
17:19:39 <cygri> ... integrate data across systems
17:20:03 <cygri> ... potentially get links to stuff outside on the web for free
17:20:25 <cygri> ... e.g. other people talking about your product (SAP use case)
17:20:27 <cygri> slide 5
17:20:38 <cygri> heiko: architecture
17:20:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/15-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:20:58 <cygri> ... storage
17:21:13 <cygri> ... lifecycle, e.g. ageing, merging, splitting of IDs
17:21:22 <cygri> ... entity matching (queries)
17:21:48 <cygri> ... access management: no mining queries ("give me all XYZ")
17:21:52 <cygri> ... access APIs
17:21:54 <cygri> slide 6
17:21:59 <cygri> heiko: scalability
17:22:24 <cygri> ... storage has distributed index, and distributed entity store, both clustered
17:22:37 <cygri> ... replication+sharding
17:22:42 <LeeF> LeeF has joined #rdb2rdf
17:22:47 <cygri> ... solr
17:23:12 <cygri> ... ENS Core does life cycle etc, also clustered
17:23:24 <cygri> slide 7
17:23:47 <cygri> heiko: currently also working on offline processing
17:23:58 <cygri> ... batch processing, deduplication, data quality assessment etc
17:24:03 <hhalpin> hhalpin has joined #rdb2rdf
17:24:12 <cygri> slide 8
17:24:28 <cygri> heiko: under development for 2 years, version 2 coming
17:24:51 <cygri> ... now at 7.5M records, system scales to 50M
17:25:12 <cygri> ... want to be at 50M records and capability of 500M at project end 06/2010
17:25:15 <cygri> slide 9
17:25:23 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Ben_Szekely
17:25:41 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Nuno
17:25:54 <cygri> heiko: entity repository = ID + attached entity description
17:25:59 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Ahmed
17:26:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/15-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:26:21 <cygri> slide 10
17:26:29 <cygri> heiko: challenges
17:26:41 <cygri> ... no defined fixed schema, just vocabularies
17:26:57 <cygri> ... we don't define vocabularies
17:27:05 <cygri> ... users specify name-value pairs
17:27:19 <cygri> ... matching afterwards is difficult
17:27:50 <cygri> ... users can use whatever vocab they want, "professor" instead of "person", we must deal with that
17:27:53 <cygri> slide 11
17:28:18 <cygri> heiko: internal representation: XML documents with name-value pairs describing the entities
17:28:23 <cygri> ... and alternative identifiers
17:28:40 <cygri> ... can be interpreted as linked data style sameAs
17:28:43 <cygri> ... e.g. dbpedia URI
17:29:03 <cygri> ... API call for retrieving the canonical OKKAM ID for an alternative identifier
17:29:10 <cygri> slide 12
17:29:21 <cygri> heiko: current content of the repo
17:29:29 <cygri> ... wikipedia, geonames, manually created
17:29:35 <cygri> ... total 7.5M entities
17:29:47 <cygri> ... currently adding DBLP
17:30:14 <cygri> ... no restriction w.r.t. types of entites, we can manage everything
17:30:16 <cygri> slide 13
17:30:51 <cygri> heiko: entity ID search
17:31:03 <cygri> ... user submits key-value pairs as query
17:31:14 <cygri> ... query must be matched against profiles
17:31:25 <cygri> ... result is canonical identifier
17:31:40 <cygri> ... skip slide 14
17:31:42 <cygri> slide 15
17:31:59 <cygri> heiko: 2 phase process in search
17:32:19 <cygri> ... 1. entity search, 2. refined entity matching
17:32:36 <cygri> ... entity search is for recall, pull out everything that is relevant, that's fast
17:32:55 <cygri> ... refined matching then to increase precision, can be more expensive
17:33:06 <cygri> ... return match or no match
17:33:19 <cygri> slide 16
17:33:24 <cygri> heiko: bridging to database integration
17:33:44 <cygri> ... expose two DBs as two knowledge bases (graph)
17:34:04 <cygri> ... typical approach for integration: owl:sameAs between records in diff DBs
17:34:07 <cygri> slide 17
17:34:24 <cygri> heiko: owl:sameAs has strong semantics, you forget where the data came from
17:34:58 <cygri> ... (slide 18) better: use same ID everywhere
17:35:08 <cygri> ... OKKAM ID as "mediator" in the middle
17:35:19 <cygri> ... without undesirable consequences of sameAs
17:35:21 <cygri> slide 19
17:36:45 <Zakim> + +44.131.208.aaee
17:36:46 <cygri> heiko: you can give local identifiers and then connect them to OKKAM ID
17:36:58 <cygri> ... then you can merge based on the ID, with desired semantic rules
17:37:00 <cygri> slide 20
17:37:29 <cygri> heiko: a database alignment project with okkam
17:37:45 <cygri> ... client has bunch of databases
17:37:52 <cygri> ... want unified view
17:38:00 <cygri> ... convert them all to RDF
17:38:09 <cygri> ... use ENS to align 
17:38:44 <cygri> ... so entities are linked without having to merge the graphs
17:38:55 <hhalpin> Zakim, aaee is hhalpin (sorry about disconnect!)
17:38:55 <Zakim> I don't understand you, hhalpin
17:39:19 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaee is hhalpin 
17:39:19 <Zakim> +hhalpin; got it
17:39:42 <cygri> slide 22
17:40:19 <cygri> heiko: in RDB you have PKs, so unique ID is often a number
17:40:24 <cygri> ... in RDF you need a URI
17:40:38 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:40:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/15-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:40:59 <cygri> ... ENS is the thing that can enable stepping from the RDF world to the RDF world
17:41:18 <cygri> ... afterwards, coreference is syntactically evident
17:41:42 <cygri> ... so okkam provides mapping between local ID and global OKKAM ID
17:41:59 <cygri> ... DERI has sig.ma application
17:42:22 <cygri> ... you can give it an okkam ID and it will give view on all data out there that uses the ID
17:42:27 <Souri> +q
17:42:35 <cygri> Q&A
17:43:08 <cygri> ericP: similar to Shared Names project? Concept Wiki?
17:43:25 <cygri> heiko: they do life science IDs, we do all domains
17:43:43 <cygri> ... they are vertical app
17:44:10 <cygri> ericP: different proteins are sometimes the same, sometimes not considered the same
17:44:25 <cygri> ... predicated similarity?
17:45:05 <cygri> heiko: frequently raised point... up until which is X the same when you start replacing all its parts?
17:45:11 <cygri> ... we don't deal with that kind of semantics
17:45:23 <Ashok> q+
17:45:37 <cygri> ... what's the same or not is in your knowledge base
17:46:29 <cygri> ... if you describe things differently from me, if we need insulation, we will have two different entites
17:47:24 <cygri> ericP: when I do SPARQL queries, should engine be aware of OKKAM?
17:47:50 <cygri> heiko: no SPARQL interface yet
17:48:11 <mhausenblas> ack Souri
17:49:22 <cygri> Souri: q related to goal of this WG... how do you do mapping in the DBs?
17:50:12 <cygri> heiko: that's up to mapping infrastructure. we just provide a URI. ENS is not a mapping layer between DB and RDF. ENS is ID management
17:50:16 <Zakim> -soeren
17:50:30 <jsequeda> q+
17:50:55 <cygri> Souri: do you hand an ID to the user, "build your DB using this"? or does user give all hist IDs to the ENS?
17:51:55 <cygri> heiko: can do two things. first, whenever I create an entity, ENS assigns it an ID. when someone else wants to talk about same entity, ID is already there in the ENS
17:52:37 <cygri> ... second, we already have distributed data. you give data to the ENS, it gives you an ID (existing or newly created). repeat for different data sources, you get same ID
17:52:59 <mhausenblas> ack Ashok
17:53:24 <cygri> Ashok: are okkam IDs URIs? what's the structure of the URI?
17:53:33 <cygri> heiko: yes, they are URIs
17:53:42 <HeikoStoermer> http://www.okkam.org/entity/ok5f23a5ce-a683-4c4d-ae73-b78cdc17aec1
17:53:50 <cygri> heiko: that's an okkam ID
17:54:21 <cygri> ... it's a UUID
17:54:31 <mhausenblas> ack jsequeda 
17:54:48 <angela_UNITN> you can aggragate data by okkamID using sig.ma for example
17:54:49 <angela_UNITN> http://sig.ma/search?q=http://www.okkam.org/entity/ok5f23a5ce-a683-4c4d-ae73-b78cdc17aec1
17:55:34 <cygri> jsequeda: let's say i have legacy DB about companies with PKs. so I would map my PKs to okkam IDs?
17:55:56 <cygri> heiko: yes you want to have the okkam ID somewhere in your data, because then it's stable
17:56:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/15-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:56:23 <mhausenblas> Zakim, list attendees 
17:56:23 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Seema, +43.316.876.aaaa, +1.562.249.aabb, +039046188aacc, +39.046.188.aadd, Ashok_Malhotra, Souri, EricP, mhausenblas, MacTed, soeren,
17:56:26 <cygri> ... either do it entity by entity, or use batch processor where you send the data to the ENS
17:56:27 <Zakim> ... cygri, whalb, [IPcaller], angela_UNITN, HeikoStoermer, jsequeda, +44.131.208.aaee, hhalpin
17:56:35 <cygri> ... privacy issues of course
17:57:05 <cygri> jsequeda: how much disambiguation do you do? how tell apart oracle the company and oracle the DB?
17:57:24 <cygri> heiko: if you just have a string, we can do nothing for you. need more info in your record
17:57:52 <cygri> ... sometimes can fall back on global popularity. IBM the company vs IBM the band
17:58:49 <cygri> ... in practice, today: build a slightly more elaborate description of your entity; do it one by one; send query to ENS
17:59:19 <cygri> ... real examples from use case partners have sufficient detail
17:59:48 <cygri> ... structure of query: simplest is bag of words; more complex is key value pairs; easy to pull that from a DB and that helps us a great deal
18:00:15 <cygri> mhausenblas: further questions on the mailing list
18:00:18 <cygri> Topic: AOB
18:00:32 <ericP> +1
18:00:35 <cygri> mhausenblas: no telecon on december 22nd and 29th
18:00:41 <Marcelo> +1
18:00:49 <cygri> PROPOSAL: reconvene jan 5th
18:00:57 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/ScribeList
18:01:09 <cygri> next scribe is Souri
18:02:02 <cygri> microsoft patent ... apparently does not come from SQL Server team but perhaps Live Search
18:03:41 <jsequeda> Email on the New York Semantic Web mailing list
18:03:42 <jsequeda> Actually its not a patent yet, just an application.  The USPTO is looking at ways to improve discovery of prior art, and has a pilot program where you can participate in the examination process.  So if you know of prior art, post it here:
18:03:46 <jsequeda> http://www.peertopatent.org/
18:04:58 <MacTed> there is a date that "prior art" must exist before, associated with the patent ... but I forget whether that's the "submission date" or something else
18:06:17 <Souri> Oracle has a paper in VLDB 2005
18:06:43 <Zakim> -MacTed
18:06:45 <mhausenblas> [adjourned]
18:06:50 <Zakim> -Souri
18:06:51 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
18:06:52 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
18:06:53 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
18:06:53 <Zakim> -EricP
18:06:54 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
18:06:54 <Zakim> -Seema
18:06:55 <Zakim> -whalb
18:06:56 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:06:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/15-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
18:06:59 <Zakim> -jsequeda
18:07:00 <Zakim> -angela_UNITN
18:07:10 <Zakim> -hhalpin
18:07:12 <Zakim> -HeikoStoermer
18:07:13 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has ended
18:07:15 <Zakim> Attendees were Seema, +43.316.876.aaaa, +1.562.249.aabb, +039046188aacc, +39.046.188.aadd, Ashok_Malhotra, Souri, EricP, mhausenblas, MacTed, soeren, cygri, whalb, [IPcaller],
18:07:17 <Zakim> ... angela_UNITN, HeikoStoermer, jsequeda, +44.131.208.aaee, hhalpin
18:08:33 <mhausenblas> Zakim, bye
18:08:33 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdb2rdf
18:08:39 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, bye 
18:08:39 <RRSAgent> I see no action items