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18:05:38 <masinter> scribenick: masinter
18:05:40 <DanC> +1 approve http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/11/19-minutes
18:05:42 <masinter> date: 3 December 2009
18:05:55 <masinter> resolved: minutes of 19 November approved
18:06:03 <noah> topic: HTML 5 / IRIbis coordination
18:06:24 <noah> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Dec/0004.html
18:06:45 <noah> Email from Larry: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Nov/0005.html
18:07:13 <noah> From Maceij: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Dec/0004.html
18:07:19 <DanC> -> http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-html-wg-minutes.html#item06 5 Nov TAG/HTML WG discussion of URI/IRI/WebAddr, where we seemed to agree on optimistic-concurrency timing
18:07:33 <noah> NM: I read Maceij's note as somewhat encouraging on the content
18:07:50 <noah> LM: I did send a message with the missing component
18:08:34 <noah> NM: Larry, do you want us in the TAG to do anything about this now.
18:08:49 <Zakim> -Masinter
18:09:04 <masinter> will dial back in hit the wrong button on phone
18:09:08 <masinter> anyway, brb
18:10:05 <Zakim> +Masinter
18:10:21 <noah> LM: Well, the proposal I made doesn't quite address Roy Fielding's concern that the term "URL" is used differently in HTML 5 than in the pertinent standards. Still we do at least move to a situation where the difference is explained.
18:10:48 <masinter> I don't have anything I want the TAG to do
18:11:02 <noah> NM: OK
18:11:16 <noah> topic: F2F Agenda
18:11:17 <masinter> well, TAG members might want to follow the IRI evolution, but no action at this time
18:11:23 <noah> F2F agenda is at: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/12/08-agenda
18:11:56 <masinter> dc: review changes to agenda
18:12:11 <masinter> dc: TLR is available, moved BOF report earlier
18:12:15 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
18:12:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see Noah_Mendelsohn, jar, DanC, Masinter
18:14:00 <masinter> q+ to ask whether there's any additional prep work besides reading that would be useful
18:15:01 <DanC> I count 15 occurrences of "required reading"
18:15:29 <masinter> discussion of reading list and material
18:22:35 <masinter> discussion by DC of inviting Philippe and/or Ralph to observe and/or participate in TAG meeting
18:24:53 <DanC> q+
18:25:05 <DanC> ack next
18:25:06 <Zakim> masinter, you wanted to ask whether there's any additional prep work besides reading that would be useful
18:25:09 <masinter> q-
18:25:10 <DanC> ack danc
18:25:31 <masinter> dc: metadata as deployed, XMP, RDFa discussion....
18:25:52 <masinter> dc: Larry has an action to prepare a summary, not done
18:26:10 <noah> dc: any further thoughts on that?
18:26:13 <DanC> ACTION-337?
18:26:13 <trackbot> ACTION-337 -- Larry Masinter to frame the F2F agenda and preparation on metadata formats/representations -- due 2009-12-01 -- OPEN
18:26:13 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/337
18:26:18 <noah> LM: Yeah, I'm late on preparing.
18:26:34 <DanC> ACTION-337 due 8 Dec
18:26:34 <trackbot> ACTION-337 frame the F2F agenda and preparation on metadata formats/representations due date now 8 Dec
18:26:38 <noah> LM: I'll have something concise for the meeting.
18:27:10 <masinter> I'll send out some additional pointers but not "required reading"
18:28:31 <Zakim> DanC, you asked to be reminded at this time to solicit scribes before the break
18:29:38 <DanC> agenda + web apps security
18:29:59 <masinter> close discussion of f2f agenda
18:30:14 <DanC> Zakim, next item
18:30:14 <Zakim> agendum 1. "web apps security" taken up [from DanC]
18:30:27 <DanC> ACTION-323?
18:30:27 <trackbot> ACTION-323 -- Dan Connolly to as Thomas for a report form the security BOF -- due 2009-12-08 -- OPEN
18:30:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/323
18:30:34 <DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Dec/0025.html
18:30:58 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-security/2009Dec/0004.html singer on UI issues 
18:31:20 <DanC> agenda + webapps arch
18:31:38 <DanC> ... http://www.w3.org/Security/wiki/Trusted_User_Interface
18:32:14 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-security/2009Dec/0007.html reply from Zurko
18:32:27 <masinter> q+ to talk about IRI security issues and need for help
18:33:39 <noah> ack next
18:33:40 <Zakim> masinter, you wanted to talk about IRI security issues and need for help
18:34:09 <noah> LM: Spoofing issues have come up as an issue that's exacerbated when you go to Unicode IRIs as opposed to ASCII URIs
18:34:15 <DanC> indeed "IDN Spoofing " is noted in http://www.w3.org/Security/wiki/Trusted_User_Interface ; I wonder if these "additional concerns" that LMM mentions are ack'd there.
18:34:24 <noah> LM: Many of the scripts that have different codes but look the same
18:35:11 <noah> LM: I'm hoping to avoid delays in moving IRI forward by getting some separate process for dealing with spoofing issues.
18:35:48 <noah> DC: Is the technical concern in the wiki similar to the concern you're discussing.
18:35:57 <noah> LM: Not sure, haven't looked at the wiki yet
18:36:32 <DanC> (sandro's WGs produce /TR/s from wiki pages by machine. i.e. the RIF WG and OWL WG)
18:36:47 <masinter> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-iri/2009Nov/ see "Phishing in IRIs" mail
18:36:51 <DanC> tx
18:37:18 <masinter> also see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-iri/2009Nov/0013.html which points to IAB presentation http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/slides/plenaryt-1.pdf
18:37:18 <masinter>  
18:37:41 <masinter> The IAB concern here leads me to believe that the IRI document will need to at least point to how the issues are addressed
18:38:55 <DanC> see http://www.w3.org/Security/wiki/Main_Page
18:39:07 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/Security/wiki/Main_Page#Community_specifications
18:40:54 <masinter> discussion of W3C & IETF concerns and membership of BOF etc.
18:41:16 <masinter> discussion about how to insure progress on these issues
18:43:55 <masinter> lm: I think this work is important and the TAG should be involved and we should ask tr for discussion about how we can be helpful.
18:44:48 <noah> +1 to what Larry is saying about security being a key driver/constraint on other architectural decisions.
18:45:15 <jar_> lm: security informs *all* architectural decisions.  we should track, at least
18:45:54 <masinter> dc: example: URIs should be opaque, but "same origin" means that lists.w3.org and w3.lists.org are very different.
18:46:18 <masinter> jar: tracking is important, but at what point does tracking become getting involved.
18:46:36 <masinter> discussion about extent of TAG involvement in security architecture issues
18:47:06 <DanC> I meant lists.w3.org vs w3.org/lists  
18:47:40 <masinter> jar: looking for criteria that would help us decide when to get involved
18:48:50 <masinter> dc: different criteria for when we get involved: we're "attention" brokers; TAG attention causes others to pay attention
18:48:53 <DanC> agenda?
18:49:11 <masinter> DC raises another item
18:49:14 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 2
18:49:14 <Zakim> agendum 2. "webapps arch" taken up [from DanC]
18:49:21 <DanC> my msg today: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Dec/0031.html
18:49:45 <masinter> topic: webapps arch
18:50:20 <masinter> dc: technical suggestion: look at WebIDL
18:50:51 <masinter> DOM specs have had IDL languages in them, only losely related to IDL
18:51:25 <masinter> dc: little details matter, though. (discussion about document.all)
18:51:45 <masinter> dc: probably 50 corner cases in the application of WebAPIs
18:52:18 <masinter> dc: behavior reversed engineered through Opera, Mozilla, IE, pointing to bugs with 50 page histories, etc.
18:52:47 <masinter> ... new mailing list created and discussion is active
18:53:13 <masinter> dc: one concrete deliverable is "binary data API"
18:53:37 <masinter> nm: data- attributes? putting binary data in the DOM? Interesting relationship to (missed)
18:53:50 <masinter> dc: did binary data go over the wire, like in XMLHTTPRequest ?
18:54:44 <DanC> I think "missed" was XOM, though I'm not sure.
18:54:53 <DanC> MTOM
18:55:19 <masinter> nm: the API you're going to see, make it possible to see binary data on either end, define text XML serialization, but allowed for other representations (e.g., in memory) could have a "on the wire" format (or in memory format) would allow delayed conversions or eliminate unnecessary ones.
18:55:41 <masinter> dc: also message in web applications architecture -- making Ajax callable from Google?
18:55:51 <DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Dec/0030.html
18:56:17 <masinter> adjourn
18:56:25 <masinter> resolved: adjourn
18:57:31 <Zakim> -jar
18:57:35 <Zakim> -Masinter
19:09:31 <Zakim> -Noah_Mendelsohn
19:09:33 <Zakim> -DanC
19:09:33 <Zakim> TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has ended
19:09:34 <Zakim> Attendees were Noah_Mendelsohn, +1.781.643.aaaa, jar, Masinter, DanC
19:12:20 <DanC> action-215?
19:12:20 <trackbot> ACTION-215 -- Larry Masinter to send minutes of 3 Dec TAG teleconference to www-tag for review -- due 2009-12-07 -- OPEN
19:12:20 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/215
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