16:59:03 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #RDB2RDF
16:59:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/12/01-RDB2RDF-irc
16:59:05 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:59:05 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #RDB2RDF
16:59:07 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7322733
16:59:07 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute
16:59:08 <trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
16:59:08 <trackbot> Date: 01 December 2009
16:59:16 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:59:16 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has not yet started, hhalpin
16:59:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, soeren, angela_UNITN, jsequeda, mhausenblas, hhalpin, BenSzekely, LeeF, nunolopes, MacTed, ericP, trackbot, iv_an_ru
16:59:40 <soeren> scribe: soeren
16:59:46 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:59:46 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has not yet started, hhalpin
16:59:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, soeren, angela_UNITN, jsequeda, mhausenblas, hhalpin, BenSzekely, LeeF, nunolopes, MacTed, ericP, trackbot, iv_an_ru
17:00:01 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #rdb2rdf
17:00:10 <soeren> scribeNick: soeren
17:00:16 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:00:16 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has not yet started, hhalpin
17:00:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see Ashok, Zakim, RRSAgent, soeren, angela_UNITN, jsequeda, mhausenblas, hhalpin, BenSzekely, LeeF, nunolopes, MacTed, ericP, trackbot, iv_an_ru
17:00:29 <mhausenblas> Chair: Michael
17:00:37 <mMetatomix> mMetatomix has joined #RDB2RDF
17:00:44 <soeren> TOPIC: Admin
17:01:05 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's making noise?
17:01:05 <Zakim> sorry, hhalpin, I don't know what conference this is
17:01:12 <Seema> Seema has joined #rdb2rdf
17:01:13 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's making noise?
17:01:13 <Zakim> sorry, hhalpin, I don't know what conference this is
17:01:22 <hhalpin> Zakim, this is RDB2RDF.
17:01:22 <Zakim> ok, hhalpin; that matches SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM
17:01:23 <Zakim> + +1.650.846.aadd
17:01:23 <Marcelo> Marcelo has joined #rdb2rdf
17:01:29 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:01:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see hhalpin, [IPcaller], ??P15, +3539149aaaa, +1.512.471.aabb, +1.603.897.aacc, +1.650.846.aadd
17:01:43 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdb2rdf
17:01:50 <soeren> approval of minutes
17:01:51 <Ahmed> Ahmed has joined #RDB2RDF
17:01:59 <jsequeda> Zakim, aabb is me
17:01:59 <Zakim> +jsequeda; got it
17:02:10 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2009/11/17-RDB2RDF-minutes.html
17:02:16 <soeren> approval of the minutes from 17th of Nov
17:02:21 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaee
17:02:26 <soeren> any additions or changes?
17:02:32 <Zakim> +??P31
17:02:32 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: accept minutes
17:02:34 <hhalpin> +1
17:02:34 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office
17:02:34 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
17:02:35 <Zakim> +EricP
17:02:36 <Zakim> +??P30
17:03:06 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2009/11/24-RDB2RDF-minutes.html
17:03:15 <hhalpin> +1
17:03:18 <soeren> no objections
17:03:24 <nunolopes> Zakim, nunolopes is with mhausenblas
17:03:24 <Zakim> sorry, nunolopes, I do not recognize a party named 'mhausenblas'
17:03:37 <soeren> all minutes approved
17:04:22 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's making noise?
17:04:25 <Seema> Zakim, aaee is me
17:04:26 <Zakim> +Seema; got it
17:04:28 <soeren> eric suggests the addition of a discussion of the datatypes issue to the agenda
17:04:31 <Zakim> +??P34
17:04:40 <Zakim> hhalpin, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: hhalpin (8%), [IPcaller] (17%), +3539149aaaa (7%), +1.603.897.aaee (7%), ??P31 (97%)
17:04:48 <hhalpin> Zakim, mute P31
17:04:49 <Zakim> sorry, hhalpin, I do not know which phone connection belongs to P31
17:04:53 <Zakim> +Kingsley_Idehen
17:04:55 <Zakim> + +1.508.358.aaff
17:04:56 <hhalpin> Zakim, mute ??P31
17:05:03 <Zakim> ??P31 should now be muted
17:05:05 <MacTed> Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software
17:05:12 <Zakim> +??P32
17:05:14 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
17:05:17 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it
17:05:17 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
17:05:21 <soeren> any other additions to the agenda?
17:05:25 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
17:05:26 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
17:05:27 <Souri> The latest version (with minor changes) is at http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/images/4/43/RDB2RDF_Map_viaSQL_w3c_final.pdf
17:05:38 <soeren> start of the presentation
17:05:48 <soeren> TOPIC: presentation by oracle
17:05:59 <jsequeda> I apologize for slacking off on the DDL coverage http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Requirements/DDLCoverage Thanksgiving holiday! I'll get back to that this week!
17:07:14 <soeren> slide3 describes the architecture
17:08:02 <soeren> architecture consists of a database and a client side
17:08:26 <soeren> mapping specification maps relational data into classes and instances
17:09:12 <ericP> q+ to ask about the SPARQL 2 SQL translator
17:09:26 <soeren> focus is on the client side
17:09:57 <soeren> SQL engine is not required
17:10:33 <soeren> if available the SQL language processor generates the RDF schema and RDF instance objects
17:11:05 <hhalpin> Just go to slide 7
17:11:10 <hhalpin> for those without animation
17:11:45 <Ahmed> Ahmed has joined #RDB2RDF
17:11:55 <soeren> SQL queries specify a transformation
17:12:22 <soeren> by using foreign and unique key constraints
17:12:40 <Ahmed> It seems lines are mutted.  
17:13:05 <soeren> approach supports comprehensive DBs with views and constraints as well as simple structured data
17:13:16 <hhalpin> Line 31 is muted due to excessive noise, not sure who it is...
17:13:22 <hhalpin> Zakim, unmute ??P31
17:13:22 <Zakim> ??P31 should no longer be muted
17:13:43 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:13:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/01-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:13:44 <ericP> q-
17:13:51 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:13:58 <soeren> if a strong DB is available additional language is not required
17:14:36 <soeren> soeren: what's meant with no-db
17:14:57 <soeren> refers only to the client side
17:16:08 <soeren> the no-db approach works on extracting RDF from JDBC results
17:17:17 <soeren> an example view is mapped to an RDF class by creating an instance for each row
17:18:05 <soeren> special columns can indicate class membership
17:18:46 <soeren> multiple types are possible by creating several rdf:type columns
17:18:55 <soeren> slide 13
17:20:01 <hhalpin> ?
17:21:10 <MacTed> +1 for page numbers *on* the slides going forward
17:21:27 <Zakim> - +1.508.358.aaff
17:21:28 <MacTed> his PDF viewer is "paper" a/k/a "hardcopy"
17:21:46 <MacTed> title only works when there's no content-change/redrawing
17:21:56 <soeren> PROPOSAL: by ahmed subsequent presentations should be formated right and contain page numbers
17:22:00 <MacTed> page numbers are *trivial* to add when building presentations
17:22:08 <MacTed> and save lots of trouble
17:22:50 <MacTed> well, nothing's easy in Slidy...  ;-)
17:23:26 <soeren> column aliases are used for mapping to RDF properties
17:23:52 <Zakim> + +1.508.358.aagg
17:24:46 <soeren> alter view and adding constraints allows to add unique keys
17:26:11 <hhalpin> wondering about "<xyz.com/emp/etype/rdf:type>"
17:26:36 <soeren> foreign keys are used for mapping to object properties
17:26:47 <Zakim> -jsequeda
17:27:10 <Zakim> +jsequeda
17:27:24 <soeren> view names correspond to class names
17:27:58 <soeren> orri: how to to create instances with data from multiple classes
17:28:08 <hhalpin> So, to summarize (I think!): name of views -> URIs for class, columns in view -> instance URIs, foreign keys -> dataType properties..
17:28:09 <soeren> s/classes/tables/
17:32:29 <soeren> orri: what about different types, how are subclass-superclass structures handled
17:34:24 <soeren> ??: is there some development environment
17:34:45 <soeren> for now just a proposal, no tools available
17:35:37 <soeren> the approach is very similar to Triplify
17:35:52 <soeren> SQL should not be reinvented inside the mapping language
17:36:39 <Zakim> -hhalpin
17:36:40 <soeren> its possible to create several rdf:type column aliases
17:36:53 <soeren> slide 23
17:37:41 <Zakim> + +31.31.208.aahh
17:37:44 <soeren> different type column aliases are modelled as supproperties of rdf:type
17:37:46 <hhalpin> Zakim, aah is hhalpin
17:37:46 <Zakim> sorry, hhalpin, I do not recognize a party named 'aah'
17:37:52 <hhalpin> Zakim, aahh is hhalpin
17:37:52 <Zakim> +hhalpin; got it
17:37:56 <soeren> slide 24
17:38:01 <Marcelo> I am also lost ...
17:39:13 <hhalpin> Everyone, re-download the slides if you are missing
17:39:19 <Marcelo> what is the title of the slide?
17:39:29 <MacTed>   	38&&
17:39:29 <MacTed>  $3
17:39:29 <hhalpin> the slides that says "SPARQL Query: Involving generic rdf:type"
17:39:32 <MacTed> ack.  sorry.
17:39:37 <hhalpin> On page 24.
17:40:55 <soeren> the subproperties of rdf:type help the SPARQL2SQL processor to find the right table to query
17:41:55 <soeren> slide 26
17:42:21 <soeren> view names can contain namespace prefixes
17:42:34 <soeren> slide 27
17:43:01 <soeren> now, no DB features available at the client side
17:43:48 <soeren> we have to create a mapping between view names and SQL select queries
17:44:18 <soeren> slide 30
17:44:48 <soeren> constraint information is additionally specified
17:44:58 <soeren> slide 31
17:46:22 <soeren> mapping of columns to properties is done with a special data structure
17:46:42 <soeren> slide 32
17:47:29 <soeren> proposal for a syntax to map SQL selects to classes
17:48:05 <soeren> slide 33
17:48:34 <soeren> similar syntax for annotating result column
17:49:35 <hhalpin> Could be a chunk of code at the other end, correct? Just JDBC-compliant code...
17:50:23 <MacTed> started with a VIEW approach, more than with a DB approach...
17:51:17 <soeren> soeren: both (the no-DB and DB) approach could be easily merged, into one, where the DB version would be just simple SELECT * queries
17:52:36 <soeren> ??: approach appears to be similar to property tables
17:53:00 <soeren> relational data is not modeled as a triple view
17:53:27 <soeren> approach is very similar to triplify
17:53:52 <soeren> less similar to ultrawrap
17:55:38 <soeren> D2RQ does more i.e. reinventing SQL
17:56:17 <soeren> we should employ SQL to do relational transformations
17:57:02 <soeren> inverse properties are important
17:58:09 <soeren> range information can be derived
17:58:21 <soeren> from the result column datatypes
17:59:18 <soeren> slide 35
17:59:42 <soeren> summary: SQL query is opaque
18:00:27 <soeren> either views or SQL is mapped to instances
18:00:36 <ericP> jsequeda, care to linger to test something for me?
18:00:48 <jsequeda> ericP: yeah, no problem
18:00:50 <hhalpin> q+
18:01:19 <soeren> ahmed: what's the status of the work?
18:01:37 <soeren> prototype is not yet ready for the public, but working
18:01:49 <soeren> orri: did you do measurements?
18:02:08 <soeren> planned, but will take more time
18:02:23 <ericP> q+ to propose a page comparing/constrasting various approaches
18:02:37 <soeren> ahmed: how is efficient query optimization performed
18:02:40 <ericP> 1-
18:02:42 <ericP> q-
18:03:15 <soeren> optimization is performed by the SQL optimizer
18:03:25 <soeren> all the work is pushed down to the DB
18:04:24 <soeren> indexes can be used as hints
18:05:20 <soeren> dan: rumour at ISWC - Oracle has a product in this space
18:06:00 <soeren> oracle supports RDF data already since 3 releases
18:07:06 <mhausenblas> Topic: AOB
18:07:11 <mhausenblas> next week is http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Initial_Round_of_Presentations#SWObjects
18:07:22 <mhausenblas> ericP?
18:07:37 <Zakim> -??P31
18:07:41 <Zakim> - +1.650.846.aadd
18:07:45 <Zakim> -??P30
18:07:49 <Zakim> - +1.508.358.aagg
18:07:50 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:07:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/01-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
18:07:55 <mhausenblas> Zakim, list attendees
18:07:55 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been [IPcaller], hhalpin, +3539149aaaa, +1.512.471.aabb, +1.603.897.aacc, +1.650.846.aadd, jsequeda, +1.603.897.aaee, EricP, Seema,
18:07:59 <Zakim> ... +1.508.358.aaff, MacTed, +1.508.358.aagg, +31.31.208.aahh
18:08:03 <Zakim> -??P15
18:08:14 <Souri> aaee is Souri
18:08:22 <hhalpin> Zakim, aaee is Souri
18:08:22 <Zakim> sorry, hhalpin, I do not recognize a party named 'aaee'
18:08:29 <hhalpin> Zakim, aacc is Souri
18:08:29 <Zakim> +Souri; got it
18:08:43 <Souri> zakim, aacc is Souri
18:08:43 <Zakim> sorry, Souri, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
18:08:45 <hhalpin> Zakim, aaee is Seema
18:08:45 <Zakim> sorry, hhalpin, I do not recognize a party named 'aaee'
18:08:56 <Zakim> -??P34
18:08:58 <mhausenblas> bye Zakim
18:08:59 <Zakim> -Souri
18:09:00 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
18:09:02 <Zakim> -MacTed
18:09:02 <mhausenblas> Zakim, bye
18:09:02 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdb2rdf
18:09:03 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were [IPcaller], hhalpin, +3539149aaaa, +1.512.471.aabb, +1.603.897.aacc, +1.650.846.aadd, jsequeda, +1.603.897.aaee, EricP, Seema,
18:09:05 <Zakim> ... +1.508.358.aaff, MacTed, +1.508.358.aagg, +31.31.208.aahh, Souri
18:09:08 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, bye
18:09:08 <RRSAgent> I see no action items