14:34:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
14:34:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/18-xhtml-irc
14:34:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:34:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2
14:34:48 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
14:34:49 <trackbot> Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference
14:34:49 <trackbot> Date: 18 November 2009
14:40:47 <Steven> Chair: Steven
14:41:18 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Nov/0005
14:41:26 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Nov/0005
14:41:36 <mgylling> mgylling has joined #xhtml
14:41:39 <Steven> Regrets: Alessio, Tina
14:42:06 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #xhtml
14:42:25 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
14:42:26 <Zakim> +ShaneM
14:43:09 <Zakim> +mgylling
14:43:10 <Zakim> -mgylling
14:43:10 <Zakim> +mgylling
14:46:20 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:46:20 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:46:21 <Zakim> +Steven
14:49:50 <Steven> Scribe: Steven
14:49:55 <Steven> Steven: News on Oasis?
14:49:58 <Steven> Markus: No
14:50:11 <Steven> Topic: Role module
14:50:31 <Steven> Steven: News?
14:50:44 <Steven> Markus: George and I attended a call last week with PF.
14:50:57 <oedipus> oedipus has joined #xhtml
14:51:05 <Steven> ... we need role for distribution context
14:51:19 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
14:51:53 <Steven> ... we're trying to figure out a role module into a state so that it is not locked to ARIA values
14:51:56 <oedipus> synopsis of discussion: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Nov/0007.html
14:52:08 <oedipus> q+ to say that GJR sent an update
14:52:13 <Steven> ... PF taking over the module wasn't discussed as I recall
14:52:25 <Steven> Gregory: I jest sent a note to the list.
14:52:31 <Steven> s/jest/just/
14:53:02 <Steven> ... raising that role is a PF responsibility
14:53:08 <Zakim> +MoZ
14:53:14 <Steven> ... we are considering moving it to PF
14:53:24 <Steven> Steven: No decision yet?
14:53:27 <Steven> Gregory: No
14:54:55 <Steven> Markus: SVG and SMIL3 use @role
14:55:14 <Steven> ... it's a generic mechanism that shouldn't be tied to accessibility
14:55:29 <Steven> Gregory: role has generic use cases
14:55:36 <Steven> Markus: Exactly
14:55:55 <Steven> ... and it would be a shame if HTML5 locked it to ARIA
14:56:10 <oedipus> ack me
14:56:10 <Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to say that GJR sent an update
14:56:24 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Nov/0007.html
14:56:28 <Steven> Markus: Gregory's route is the best one
14:56:40 <Steven> ... I would join PF to bring generic role forward in W3C
14:57:50 <Steven> Steven: Will a decision be taken this year?
14:57:55 <Steven> Gregory: I will push for it
14:58:04 <Steven> ... @role is ready
14:58:14 <Steven> ... small amount of work
14:58:28 <Steven> Shane: We already completed last call
15:01:10 <oedipus> q+ to say that for a non-modular language, there are a lot of HTML5 modules out there (canvas api, html5+rdfa, etc.)
15:01:39 <Steven> ... wrt generic values, we need a way to define new non-prefixed values in CURIEs
15:01:48 <Steven> ... we're discussing this in the RDFa TF
15:01:53 <oedipus> GJR needs to check on status of @profile in HTML5 -- was slated to be dropped, but 2 factions (accessibility and non-a11y) stronly support it
15:02:16 <oedipus> ack me
15:02:16 <Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to say that for a non-modular language, there are a lot of HTML5 modules out there (canvas api, html5+rdfa, etc.)
15:03:39 <Steven> Gregory: 01for a non-modular language, there are a lot of HTML5 modules out there (canvas api, html5+rdfa, etc.)
15:04:05 <Steven> Shane: APIs are different from syntax extensions
15:04:09 <oedipus> agreed
15:04:23 <Steven> ... HTML5+RDFa has not been agreed to be published yet
15:04:45 <Steven> ... the group doesn't agree that there is an extension mechanism
15:04:59 <Steven> Gregory: We need leadership from above, and we're not getting it
15:06:13 <oedipus> markus, did you discuss Liam Quinn's "imaginary namespaces"?
15:06:49 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/QA/2009/11/default_prefix_declaration.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=laconi
15:07:42 <oedipus> Liam's proposal: http://www.balisage.net/Proceedings/vol3/html/Quin01/BalisageVol3-Quin01.html
15:09:15 <Steven> Shane: The problem always boils down to javascript and cross site downloading
15:09:27 <Steven> ... browsers would have to support it
15:10:37 <Steven> Topic: PERs
15:11:29 <oedipus> rock'n'roll!
15:12:21 <oedipus> SP: asked to adjust wording on bits of replies, but main point from review, at transition call expect us to have shown that all the things that were changed  in normative values actually running -- need to review which are really different
15:12:29 <oedipus> SM: what PERs are we discussing?
15:12:35 <oedipus> SP: XHTML 1.1, Basic, and Print
15:13:00 <oedipus> SM: PER asked about most recently was M12n -- put others on hold because of M12n
15:13:13 <oedipus> SP: already sent a message about M12n and the other 3 PERs
15:13:32 <oedipus> SM: normative changes -- modularization changes some modules -- those changes will affect other markup languages
15:13:53 <oedipus> SP: will they change the way the other markup languages operate -- could say yes due to "lang" and "target"
15:14:04 <oedipus> SP: not sure what a sufficient demonstartion would be
15:14:23 <oedipus> SM: what tests? need to show content validates against schemas we publish
15:14:33 <oedipus> SM: fundamental question: what has changed?
15:15:01 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/ED-xhtml-modularization-20091007
15:15:32 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-xhtml-modularization-20081008
15:15:49 <oedipus> SP: can't find PER draft
15:15:58 <oedipus> SM: may not have one so could keep in draft space
15:16:05 <oedipus> SP: disposition of comments
15:16:36 <oedipus> SM: looking in spec -- draft that is up in TR space is the PER, just doesn't say so
15:16:48 <oedipus> SM: need to diff-mark again to ascertain changes
15:16:50 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/ED-xhtml-modularization-20091007/
15:17:21 <oedipus> i/SP: asked to adjust/scribenick: oedipus
15:17:44 <oedipus> SM: added datatype -- diff against last editor's draft, not last REC
15:17:56 <oedipus> SP: previous editor's draft:
15:18:37 <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/ED-xhtml-modularization-20090930/
15:18:38 <oedipus> SM: 2009-09-30 draft
15:19:14 <oedipus> SM: description of changes in "Status of Document" section
15:19:34 <oedipus> SP: name on FORM and IMG; USEMAP, etc.
15:19:56 <oedipus> SM: take a spin through document to ensure no other changes not described in status of document
15:20:16 <oedipus> SM: USEMAP not just on IMG -- should state in "Status" alos on INPUT and OBJECT
15:20:21 <oedipus> s/alos/also
15:21:29 <oedipus> ACTION: Shane - ensure that all changes to PER are described in the "Status of Document" section
15:21:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-103 - - ensure that all changes to PER are described in the "Status of Document" section [on Shane McCarron - due 2009-11-25].
15:21:54 <oedipus> SP: modules hard to test in traditional sense; if we publish it and show languages using modules correctly, should allay lingering fears
15:22:46 <oedipus> SP: drum a few tests together in preperation for re-submission
15:22:58 <oedipus> SM: where to put tests? 
15:23:10 <oedipus> SP: may need a mini-test suite to demonstrate
15:23:41 <oedipus> SM: XHTML 1.1, Basic and Print -- these module changes will effect all of those
15:23:44 <oedipus> SP: correct
15:24:19 <oedipus> SM: don't know what means to demonstrate them -- test document for each markup language that uses specific features; have to ensure still works in browser that block features
15:24:44 <oedipus> SP: XHTML Print: IMAGEMAP doesn't have any effect; FORMs don't have an effect; 
15:25:00 <oedipus> SP: no real normative affect on Print -- only real change is schemas
15:25:45 <oedipus> SP: for XHTML Basic, changes same as for 1.1 -- any test file for Basic can be done for 1.1 with only change of DOCTYPE in HEAD
15:26:26 <oedipus> ACTION: Steven - set up test document that can be used for XHTML Basic and XHTML 1.1 (same test file, different DOCTYPES)
15:26:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-104 - - set up test document that can be used for XHTML Basic and XHTML 1.1 (same test file, different DOCTYPES) [on Steven Pemberton - due 2009-11-25].
15:26:54 <oedipus> ACTION: Shane - adjust schema for XHTML Basic, 1.1, and Print
15:26:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-105 - - adjust schema for XHTML Basic, 1.1, and Print [on Shane McCarron - due 2009-11-25].
15:27:27 <oedipus> topic: XHTML2 Draft
15:27:37 <oedipus> SP: need to review action items logged against draft
15:27:48 <oedipus> SM: i need to produce a note which i haven't yet done
15:27:59 <oedipus> [ADJOURNED]
15:28:03 <Zakim> -mgylling
15:28:06 <Zakim> -ShaneM
15:28:08 <Zakim> -MoZ
15:28:17 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
15:28:18 <Zakim> -Steven
15:28:19 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
15:28:20 <Zakim> Attendees were ShaneM, mgylling, Steven, Gregory_Rosmaita, MoZ
15:28:38 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:28:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/18-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
15:50:21 <Steven> Gregory, Oedipus?
15:50:35 <Steven> Did you mean to send that message to XHTML2 or WAI PF?
17:39:38 <oedipus> oedipus has joined #xhtml
17:39:40 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/HTML_Task_Force