16:01:33 RRSAgent has joined #RDB2RDF 16:01:33 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/10-RDB2RDF-irc 16:01:39 Zakim, this is rdb2rdf 16:01:41 ericP, I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be rdb2rdf". 16:01:46 Zakim, this will be rdb2rdf 16:01:46 ok, ericP; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 59 minutes 16:01:54 huh 16:02:44 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2009Nov/0008 suggests that it starts at 16:00Z 16:03:00 MacTed, when do you expect this telecon to start? 16:06:43 ahh, i see 1200 Eastern 16:38:19 jsequeda has joined #RDB2RDF 16:52:17 heya 16:52:25 good to see you around ericP 16:52:37 yes, it is 17:00 UTC 16:53:08 gonna be 5 mins late, i think 16:53:21 no worries ;) 16:53:26 i look forward to geeking with y'all! 16:53:46 yeah! and continue our great ISWC08 talk (and dance ;) 16:54:43 to bad both of you guys missed out on the ISWC09 talks and dance! 16:55:09 Ahmed has joined #RDB2RDF 16:55:25
  • li has joined #RDB2RDF 16:55:59 SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started 16:56:06 +??P0 16:56:10 trackbot, start conference 16:56:12 RRSAgent, make logs world 16:56:14 Zakim, this will be 7322733 16:56:14 ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes 16:56:15 Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference 16:56:15 Date: 10 November 2009 16:56:51 Chair: Ahmed 16:57:15 hhalpin has joined #rdb2rdf 16:58:40 whalb has joined #RDB2RDF 16:59:03 Ashok has joined #rdb2rdf 16:59:12 Zakim, who's here? 16:59:12 I notice SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has restarted 16:59:13 angela_UNITN has joined #rdb2rdf 16:59:13 On IRC I see Ashok, whalb, hhalpin, li, Ahmed, jsequeda, RRSAgent, Zakim, mdean, ericP, mhausenblas, MacTed, nunolopes, iv_an_ru, trackbot 16:59:16 On the phone I see ??P0, AndyS, metatomix, mhausenblas, +1.512.471.aaaa 16:59:42 + +43.316.876.aabb 16:59:46 Seema has joined #RDB2RDF 16:59:54 Zakim, aabb is whalb 16:59:54 +whalb; got it 17:00:05 +Kingsley_Idehen 17:00:13 batla has joined #rdb2rdf 17:00:19 Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software 17:00:19 +OpenLink_Software; got it 17:00:20 + +039046188aacc 17:00:29 good morning/afternoon everyone. 17:00:29 Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily MacTed 17:00:29 +MacTed; got it 17:00:35 Zakim, mute me 17:00:35 MacTed should now be muted 17:00:46 Zakim, who's here? 17:00:46 On the phone I see ??P0, AndyS, metatomix, mhausenblas, +1.512.471.aaaa, whalb, MacTed (muted), +039046188aacc 17:00:48 On IRC I see batla, Seema, angela_UNITN, Ashok, whalb, hhalpin, li, Ahmed, jsequeda, RRSAgent, Zakim, mdean, ericP, mhausenblas, MacTed, nunolopes, iv_an_ru, trackbot 17:00:49 +Seema 17:00:57 Zakim: nunolopes is with mhausenblas 17:01:13 i039046188aacc is angela 17:01:18 cygri has joined #rdb2rdf 17:01:34 batla has to step away for a couple of minutes - I am on phone and IRC. 17:01:40 Zakim aacc is angela_UNITN 17:01:42 +Ashok_Malhotra 17:02:08 Zakim, aaaa is jsequeda 17:02:09 +jsequeda; got it 17:02:15 Zakim, who's here? 17:02:15 On the phone I see ??P0, AndyS, metatomix, mhausenblas, jsequeda, whalb, MacTed (muted), +039046188aacc, Seema, Ashok_Malhotra 17:02:17 On IRC I see cygri, batla, Seema, angela_UNITN, Ashok, whalb, hhalpin, li, Ahmed, jsequeda, RRSAgent, Zakim, mdean, ericP, mhausenblas, MacTed, nunolopes, iv_an_ru, trackbot 17:02:28
  • this is li ma. I am making the call via skype and don't know my phone num displayed 17:02:28 cygri has left #rdb2rdf 17:02:38 +??P25 17:03:01 Souri has joined #rdb2rdf 17:03:03 Zakim, P25 is Orri 17:03:03 sorry, mhausenblas, I do not recognize a party named 'P25' 17:03:09 Zakim, ??P25 is Orri 17:03:09 +Orri; got it 17:03:27 Zakim, aacc is angela_UNITN 17:03:27 +angela_UNITN; got it 17:03:34 Zakim, who's here? 17:03:34 On the phone I see ??P0, AndyS, metatomix, mhausenblas, jsequeda, whalb, MacTed (muted), angela_UNITN, Seema, Ashok_Malhotra, Orri 17:03:36 On IRC I see Souri, batla, Seema, angela_UNITN, Ashok, whalb, hhalpin, li, Ahmed, jsequeda, RRSAgent, Zakim, mdean, ericP, mhausenblas, MacTed, nunolopes, iv_an_ru, trackbot 17:03:57 regrets+ Soeren 17:04:05 Zakim, nunolopes is with mhausenblas 17:04:05 +nunolopes; got it 17:04:27 cygri has joined #rdb2rdf 17:04:28 +??P28 17:04:33 regrets+ howard 17:04:50 Zakim, cygri is with mhausenblas 17:04:50 +cygri; got it 17:05:12 regrets+ Ben 17:05:19 + +0771788aadd 17:05:37 Zakim, aadd is Souri 17:05:37 +Souri; got it 17:05:41 -Orri 17:06:19 aadd? is hhalpin 17:06:25 Zakim, aadd? is hhalpin 17:06:25 sorry, hhalpin, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd?' 17:06:35 scribenick: mhausenblas 17:06:58 Topic: Admin 17:07:06 minutes from last meeting 17:07:07 trackbot, start meeting 17:07:09 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2009Nov/0007.html 17:07:10 RRSAgent, make logs world 17:07:12 Zakim, this will be 7322733 17:07:12 ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start 7 minutes ago 17:07:13 Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference 17:07:13 Date: 10 November 2009 17:08:35 scribenick: hhalpin 17:08:43 ashok: SQL is a very language 17:08:51 ... so what I wanted to at least think about 17:08:58 Zakim, please dail ericP-office 17:08:58 I don't understand 'please dail ericP-office', ericP 17:09:03 Zakim, please dial ericP-office 17:09:03 ok, ericP; the call is being made 17:09:06 ... to map all of SQL, whether we could do just a subset. 17:09:34 ... for example, we could map only SQL92 17:10:26 Ahmed: Do you mean certain SQL facilitites or data-types 17:10:42 Ashok: I am talking about certain extensions like facilities around data-types 17:10:53 Ahmed: Do you see us doing mapping SQL to SPARQL? 17:11:42 Ashok: We'll see that the low-level details like SPARQL to SQL mappings are places where different companies can compete. 17:13:16 Ahmed: relational algebra is SQL operations, not data-types 17:13:23 Ahmed: including projections, joins 17:13:28 Ashok: Yes, I agree. 17:13:44 Ahmed: Then how is SQL to SPARQL not included? 17:14:22 Ashok: What I was thinking about was mapping a SPARQL class to a SQL query 17:14:29 ... that would then have join etc. 17:14:29 q+ 17:14:54 ack Souri 17:15:12 Ahmed: I agree with Ashok, and we have to keep it simple, and maybe avoid complex types, focus on scalar types for now. 17:15:32 q+ 17:15:42 s/Ahmed: I agree/Souri: I agree 17:15:43 Souri: But all SQL operations are important so we need to go through SQL 17:15:52 Souri: Like Triplify in using SQL 17:16:40 ... so we can have RDF mapping where the fundamental aspects are the return of SELECT, not just say functions etc. 17:16:59 ... to summarize, we need to keep it simple, so let's support SQL operations in the mapping language. 17:17:19 Ahmed: In XG, we did not discuss SQL to SPARQL mappings 17:17:33 ... so doing this adds a new commitment of time 17:17:48 ... but I do not say that mapping to SQL operations is something we can live without 17:17:48 q+ 17:17:56 ... but we do have a specific timeframe 17:18:00 ... and we have to watch it. 17:18:03 +1 on watching timeframe 17:18:19 ack jsequeda 17:18:36 jsequeda: looking for clarification of language 17:18:48 ... just want to remind me about DDL, DML, and DQL. 17:19:00 Data Definition Language, Data Manipulation Language, Data Query Language. 17:19:08 So which are we talking about? 17:19:21 s/jsequeda/Dan 17:19:22 ack Souri 17:19:42 q? 17:20:05 Souri: We need to make sure every row of the view can be understood 17:20:05 q+ to say that i think e.g. HCLS expects of us 17:20:06 hhalpin: ok 17:20:25 ... so we can design queries based on the relational schema without looking at the queries. 17:20:35 ... so we'll need only a portion likely 17:21:07 q+ 17:21:42 Ahmed: So there's a difference between mapping the database schema and actually translating SQL to SPARQL (and vice versa) 17:22:12 ack ericP 17:22:12 ericP, you wanted to say that i think e.g. HCLS expects of us 17:22:18 mhausenblas: ericP is W3C staff on this group 17:22:31 EricP: I'm EricP, I'm on HCLS interest group 17:22:42 ... where I do mostly query mapping and modelling 17:22:52 ... the world I've seen would like enough of the query mappig 17:23:10 ... so they can do straight mappings, even a subset of SPARQL 17:23:25 ... if we define the semantics of the answers, but not the algorithm 17:23:38 ... then we can lean on the semantics of SQL and SPARQL 17:23:45 ... so all we apply is the semantics of the mappig 17:24:41 ACTION: mhausenblas to create an issue regarding SQL/SPARQL of our WG 17:24:41 Sorry, couldn't find user - mhausenblas 17:24:52 ACTION: mhausenb to create an issue regarding SQL/SPARQL of our WG 17:24:52 Created ACTION-13 - Create an issue regarding SQL/SPARQL of our WG [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-11-17]. 17:25:43 mhausenblas: I hesistate to wait too long 17:25:53 ... to start working on the use-cases 17:26:03 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/rdb2rdf/XGR-rdb2rdf-20090126/ 17:27:13 Ahmed: Not sure if we should commit. 17:27:36 Ahmed: the deadline may be a problem 17:28:28 Propose to accept minutes from last meeting http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2009Nov/0007.html minus the issues discussed today 17:28:34 ... proposed to accept minutes from meeting. 17:28:46 Ahmed: Any outstanding actions? 17:29:01 Action doe. 17:29:01 Sorry, bad ACTION syntax 17:29:06 Action done 17:29:06 Sorry, bad ACTION syntax 17:29:19 ACTION-12? 17:29:19 ACTION-12 -- Harry Halpin to inform li ma -- due 2009-11-05 -- OPEN 17:29:19 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/12 17:29:32 did inform li ma. 17:29:38 close ACTION-12 17:29:38 ACTION-12 Inform li ma closed 17:29:59 Ahmed: We want to make sure we have representation from OWL and RIF, and any other WGs? 17:30:06 mhausenblas: not as far as I know. 17:30:40 ACTION: mhausenb to create Wiki page for liaisons with OWL, RIF, etc. 17:30:40 Created ACTION-14 - Create Wiki page for liaisons with OWL, RIF, etc. [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-11-17]. 17:30:42 mhausenblas: can post any more liasons on the wiki. 17:30:51 http://richard.cyganiak.de/2009/11/d2rq-rdb2rdf-wg-slides.pdf 17:32:21 cygri: want to talk about the project, the mapping language, and the requirements of D2RQ. 17:33:16 ... a database to rdf mapping application 17:33:25 ... input is any JBDC driver and a number of output interfaces 17:33:28 ... linked data server 17:33:44 ... get a big rdf dump from database 17:33:50 ... that one can then load into a triple store 17:34:11 ... very easy 17:34:18 ... can get it working in a few minutes 17:34:23 ... do not modify database 17:34:28 ... we assume we have read-only access 17:34:34 ... we assume we cannot even create a view 17:34:42 ... not adding keys to database. 17:35:17 ... started by Chris Bizer in 2004 17:35:22 ... now maintained by Chris Becker 17:35:28 ... informed by D2R Map 17:35:31 ... now legacy 17:35:59 ... fairly active mailing list, 20 messages per month approx. 17:36:46 ... Hannover Uni. uses it to host DBLP 17:37:37 ... downloads took off when we offered the server 17:37:42 ... not just the Jena-based API 17:37:48 ... so that we could install and run something. 17:38:16 ... details about architecture 17:38:23 ... a normal database 17:38:36 ... provided by a mapping file 17:38:47 ... has two main ways of interfacing 17:38:54 ... jena interface 17:39:02 ... ability to create rdf dumps 17:39:07 ... on top of that there is a server 17:39:12 ... basically a java web application 17:39:30 ... linked data interface 17:39:44 ... for exploring and the like. 17:39:59 ... and a SPARQL endpoint. 17:40:51 cygri: we normally use one of the query interfaces to a virtual rdf graph 17:41:02 ... we do not materialize unless explciltly asked. 17:41:18 ... on top of data 17:41:27 ... we can allow different methods of accessing. 17:41:42 ... ranging in complexity, all on top of virtual rdf graph. 17:41:53 ... people tend to actually use SPARQL endpoints or create RDF dumps 17:42:07 ... data integration scenarios. 17:42:49 ... we would need a federated SPARQL engine. 17:43:15 ... so people often just dump and put into a triple-store 17:43:24 ... but people run it in batch every night or weekend. 17:43:50 ... mapping language 17:43:56 ... n3 based syntax 17:44:20 ... real world schemas are very messy 17:44:26 ... so we don't know if we have views 17:44:34 ... we made the mapping language very expressive 17:45:28 ... we have a script that autogenerates a mapping 17:45:37 ... just uses autogenerated properties and classes 17:45:44 ... but is a starting poit for cusotmizing 17:45:57 ... to provide exactly the output they want. 17:46:43 mapping process is quite important 17:46:48 1. define DB 17:46:51 2. define entiites 17:46:59 3. add properties (connect person to photo) 17:47:35 4. Link entities (here's the database, here's the JBDC deadline) 17:47:47 See examples in slides 17:48:16 slide 17: we have a classmpa that defines a URI pattern that defines a number of entities defined in the same way 17:48:33 cygri: the URI pattern 17:49:00 ... can instatiate actual URIs from data from the database 17:49:23 ... so in general, throughout the next slide 17:49:47 I think 17 to 18 17:50:19 ashok: you are using a column name, could you use a function? 17:50:31 cygri: you cannot in our URI patterns, you can only use column names 17:50:51 ... in other contexts, you could do the same thing that contains some value from the database 17:51:19 ... you can concatenate a certain string with output of some function, so you can get the same effect. 17:51:35 ... via using an arbitrary SQL expressio 17:51:51 cygri: back to slide 18 17:52:22 ... so we have conditions that the mapping applies whenever a certain SQL condition applies, such as a user not being deleted. 17:52:38 ... instead of a URI pattern 17:52:42 ... we use bnode ID column 17:53:53 ... we also have on slide 21 some syntactic sugar 17:53:57 ... for declaring types of rdf entities 17:54:15 ... slide 22 we show we can use property bridges 17:54:20 ... to attach properties to the entities 17:55:41 ... we again use a URI pattern to generating specific types. We can generate data-type literals,etc., but a different set of URIs patterns 17:56:17 ... on slide 24, I am showing that we can use the SQL expression to concat a hash 17:57:49 ... we can explain that a certain photo made by a user on slide 25 17:58:26 ... the slide is correct, we are attaching a property to a photo 17:58:41 ... we are attaching a particular URI to a particular perso 17:59:03 ... we want to make sure the photo has the right user ID as part of their URI. 17:59:30 [[ 17:59:31 map:People a d2rq:ClassMap; 17:59:31 d2rq:uriPattern “http://.../people/@@User.ID@@” 17:59:32 ]] 18:00:49 [[ 18:00:53 rcygri: slide 27, instead of repeating URI patter 18:00:55 map:photo a d2rq:PropertyBridge; d2rq:belongsToClassMap map:Photos; d2rq:property foaf:made; d2rq:join “User.ID = Photo.UserID”; d2rq:refersToClassMap map:People . 18:00:59 ]] 18:01:09 ... we simply map the URIs pattern 18:01:21 ... so by refering to the class maps 18:01:36 ... we will not expose a triple 18:02:25 ... we allow self-joins re "alias" costruct 18:02:55 Ahmed: You are primarily mapping the schema 18:03:20 rcygri: we do have a SPARQL engine 18:03:54 q+ to ask if a rule language with SQL bodies and SPARQL graph pattern heads would express d2r 18:03:58 ... that can try to do the translations to a virtual graph 18:04:30 rcygri: Turtle-syntax not a w3c standard 18:04:39 ... we used Turtle because it is fairly human writable 18:04:45 ... SPARQL was not around 18:04:55 SPARQL felt free to use turtle for examples in the query specification and the test cases 18:05:15 s/SPARQL/the DAWG (SPARQL) Working Group/ 18:05:44 ... you need to take the SQL apart, and we would like to avoid doing that 18:05:49 ... differences between database languages 18:05:56 s/languages/vendors 18:06:16 rcygri: would like to discuss SQL query to RDF template 18:06:23 ... to RDF graph + SQL fragment issue 18:07:57 ... we would like to support and have frequet requests for character separated lists and dynamic properties 18:08:32 Dynamic properties seems like a way to express :nonSale $price vs. :sale $price 18:09:13 ... a transformation table would also be useful to have proper URIs based on type-codes. 18:09:36 ... the main issue is table and column names 18:10:25 ... general functions beyond the standards 18:10:33 ... would be a great thing to support 18:10:56 ... on implementation side we have a lot to support. 18:11:10 ... but some things vary between databases 18:12:30 q? 18:12:32 q- 18:13:18 q+ to ask if a rule language with SQL algebra bodies and SPARQL algebra heads would express d2r 18:13:18 ... no dynamic mapping file 18:14:49 mhausenblas: Could we continue this discussion mailing list? 18:15:06 hhalpin: we are still on the phone 18:15:07 Meeting Adjourned. 18:15:13 trackbot, end meeting 18:15:13 Zakim, list attendees 18:15:13 sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is 18:15:14 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 18:15:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/10-RDB2RDF-minutes.html trackbot 18:15:15 RRSAgent, bye 18:15:15 I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/10-RDB2RDF-actions.rdf : 18:15:15 ACTION: mhausenblas to create an issue regarding SQL/SPARQL of our WG [1] 18:15:15 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/10-RDB2RDF-irc#T17-24-41 18:15:15 ACTION: mhausenb to create an issue regarding SQL/SPARQL of our WG [2] 18:15:15 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/10-RDB2RDF-irc#T17-24-52 18:15:15 ACTION: mhausenb to create Wiki page for liaisons with OWL, RIF, etc. [3] 18:15:15 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/10-RDB2RDF-irc#T17-30-40 18:15:27 just wait a sec