IRC log of RDB2RDF on 2009-11-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:01:33 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #RDB2RDF
16:01:33 [RRSAgent]
logging to
16:01:39 [ericP]
Zakim, this is rdb2rdf
16:01:41 [Zakim]
ericP, I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be rdb2rdf".
16:01:46 [ericP]
Zakim, this will be rdb2rdf
16:01:46 [Zakim]
ok, ericP; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 59 minutes
16:01:54 [ericP]
16:02:44 [ericP] suggests that it starts at 16:00Z
16:03:00 [ericP]
MacTed, when do you expect this telecon to start?
16:06:43 [ericP]
ahh, i see 1200 Eastern
16:38:19 [jsequeda]
jsequeda has joined #RDB2RDF
16:52:17 [mhausenblas]
16:52:25 [mhausenblas]
good to see you around ericP
16:52:37 [mhausenblas]
yes, it is 17:00 UTC
16:53:08 [ericP]
gonna be 5 mins late, i think
16:53:21 [mhausenblas]
no worries ;)
16:53:26 [ericP]
i look forward to geeking with y'all!
16:53:46 [mhausenblas]
yeah! and continue our great ISWC08 talk (and dance ;)
16:54:43 [jsequeda]
to bad both of you guys missed out on the ISWC09 talks and dance!
16:55:09 [Ahmed]
Ahmed has joined #RDB2RDF
16:55:25 [li]
li has joined #RDB2RDF
16:55:59 [Zakim]
SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
16:56:06 [Zakim]
16:56:10 [mhausenblas]
trackbot, start conference
16:56:12 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
16:56:14 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 7322733
16:56:14 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
16:56:15 [trackbot]
Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
16:56:15 [trackbot]
Date: 10 November 2009
16:56:51 [mhausenblas]
Chair: Ahmed
16:57:15 [hhalpin]
hhalpin has joined #rdb2rdf
16:58:40 [whalb]
whalb has joined #RDB2RDF
16:59:03 [Ashok]
Ashok has joined #rdb2rdf
16:59:12 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, who's here?
16:59:12 [Zakim]
I notice SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has restarted
16:59:13 [angela_UNITN]
angela_UNITN has joined #rdb2rdf
16:59:13 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Ashok, whalb, hhalpin, li, Ahmed, jsequeda, RRSAgent, Zakim, mdean, ericP, mhausenblas, MacTed, nunolopes, iv_an_ru, trackbot
16:59:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P0, AndyS, metatomix, mhausenblas, +1.512.471.aaaa
16:59:42 [Zakim]
+ +43.316.876.aabb
16:59:46 [Seema]
Seema has joined #RDB2RDF
16:59:54 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aabb is whalb
16:59:54 [Zakim]
+whalb; got it
17:00:05 [Zakim]
17:00:13 [batla]
batla has joined #rdb2rdf
17:00:19 [MacTed]
Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software
17:00:19 [Zakim]
+OpenLink_Software; got it
17:00:20 [Zakim]
+ +039046188aacc
17:00:29 [batla]
good morning/afternoon everyone.
17:00:29 [MacTed]
Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily MacTed
17:00:29 [Zakim]
+MacTed; got it
17:00:35 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
17:00:35 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
17:00:46 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, who's here?
17:00:46 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P0, AndyS, metatomix, mhausenblas, +1.512.471.aaaa, whalb, MacTed (muted), +039046188aacc
17:00:48 [Zakim]
On IRC I see batla, Seema, angela_UNITN, Ashok, whalb, hhalpin, li, Ahmed, jsequeda, RRSAgent, Zakim, mdean, ericP, mhausenblas, MacTed, nunolopes, iv_an_ru, trackbot
17:00:49 [Zakim]
17:00:57 [nunolopes]
Zakim: nunolopes is with mhausenblas
17:01:13 [angela_UNITN]
i039046188aacc is angela
17:01:18 [cygri]
cygri has joined #rdb2rdf
17:01:34 [batla]
batla has to step away for a couple of minutes - I am on phone and IRC.
17:01:40 [mhausenblas]
Zakim aacc is angela_UNITN
17:01:42 [Zakim]
17:02:08 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aaaa is jsequeda
17:02:09 [Zakim]
+jsequeda; got it
17:02:15 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, who's here?
17:02:15 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P0, AndyS, metatomix, mhausenblas, jsequeda, whalb, MacTed (muted), +039046188aacc, Seema, Ashok_Malhotra
17:02:17 [Zakim]
On IRC I see cygri, batla, Seema, angela_UNITN, Ashok, whalb, hhalpin, li, Ahmed, jsequeda, RRSAgent, Zakim, mdean, ericP, mhausenblas, MacTed, nunolopes, iv_an_ru, trackbot
17:02:28 [li]
this is li ma. I am making the call via skype and don't know my phone num displayed
17:02:28 [cygri]
cygri has left #rdb2rdf
17:02:38 [Zakim]
17:03:01 [Souri]
Souri has joined #rdb2rdf
17:03:03 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, P25 is Orri
17:03:03 [Zakim]
sorry, mhausenblas, I do not recognize a party named 'P25'
17:03:09 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, ??P25 is Orri
17:03:09 [Zakim]
+Orri; got it
17:03:27 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aacc is angela_UNITN
17:03:27 [Zakim]
+angela_UNITN; got it
17:03:34 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, who's here?
17:03:34 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P0, AndyS, metatomix, mhausenblas, jsequeda, whalb, MacTed (muted), angela_UNITN, Seema, Ashok_Malhotra, Orri
17:03:36 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Souri, batla, Seema, angela_UNITN, Ashok, whalb, hhalpin, li, Ahmed, jsequeda, RRSAgent, Zakim, mdean, ericP, mhausenblas, MacTed, nunolopes, iv_an_ru, trackbot
17:03:57 [mhausenblas]
regrets+ Soeren
17:04:05 [nunolopes]
Zakim, nunolopes is with mhausenblas
17:04:05 [Zakim]
+nunolopes; got it
17:04:27 [cygri]
cygri has joined #rdb2rdf
17:04:28 [Zakim]
17:04:33 [mhausenblas]
regrets+ howard
17:04:50 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, cygri is with mhausenblas
17:04:50 [Zakim]
+cygri; got it
17:05:12 [mhausenblas]
regrets+ Ben
17:05:19 [Zakim]
+ +0771788aadd
17:05:37 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aadd is Souri
17:05:37 [Zakim]
+Souri; got it
17:05:41 [Zakim]
17:06:19 [hhalpin]
aadd? is hhalpin
17:06:25 [hhalpin]
Zakim, aadd? is hhalpin
17:06:25 [Zakim]
sorry, hhalpin, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd?'
17:06:35 [mhausenblas]
scribenick: mhausenblas
17:06:58 [mhausenblas]
Topic: Admin
17:07:06 [mhausenblas]
minutes from last meeting
17:07:07 [hhalpin]
trackbot, start meeting
17:07:09 [mhausenblas]
17:07:10 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
17:07:12 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 7322733
17:07:12 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start 7 minutes ago
17:07:13 [trackbot]
Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
17:07:13 [trackbot]
Date: 10 November 2009
17:08:35 [mhausenblas]
scribenick: hhalpin
17:08:43 [hhalpin]
ashok: SQL is a very language
17:08:51 [hhalpin]
... so what I wanted to at least think about
17:08:58 [ericP]
Zakim, please dail ericP-office
17:08:58 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'please dail ericP-office', ericP
17:09:03 [ericP]
Zakim, please dial ericP-office
17:09:03 [Zakim]
ok, ericP; the call is being made
17:09:06 [hhalpin]
... to map all of SQL, whether we could do just a subset.
17:09:34 [hhalpin]
... for example, we could map only SQL92
17:10:26 [hhalpin]
Ahmed: Do you mean certain SQL facilitites or data-types
17:10:42 [hhalpin]
Ashok: I am talking about certain extensions like facilities around data-types
17:10:53 [hhalpin]
Ahmed: Do you see us doing mapping SQL to SPARQL?
17:11:42 [hhalpin]
Ashok: We'll see that the low-level details like SPARQL to SQL mappings are places where different companies can compete.
17:13:16 [hhalpin]
Ahmed: relational algebra is SQL operations, not data-types
17:13:23 [hhalpin]
Ahmed: including projections, joins
17:13:28 [hhalpin]
Ashok: Yes, I agree.
17:13:44 [hhalpin]
Ahmed: Then how is SQL to SPARQL not included?
17:14:22 [hhalpin]
Ashok: What I was thinking about was mapping a SPARQL class to a SQL query
17:14:29 [hhalpin]
... that would then have join etc.
17:14:29 [Souri]
17:14:54 [mhausenblas]
ack Souri
17:15:12 [hhalpin]
Ahmed: I agree with Ashok, and we have to keep it simple, and maybe avoid complex types, focus on scalar types for now.
17:15:32 [jsequeda]
17:15:42 [mhausenblas]
s/Ahmed: I agree/Souri: I agree
17:15:43 [hhalpin]
Souri: But all SQL operations are important so we need to go through SQL
17:15:52 [hhalpin]
Souri: Like Triplify in using SQL
17:16:40 [hhalpin]
... so we can have RDF mapping where the fundamental aspects are the return of SELECT, not just say functions etc.
17:16:59 [hhalpin]
... to summarize, we need to keep it simple, so let's support SQL operations in the mapping language.
17:17:19 [hhalpin]
Ahmed: In XG, we did not discuss SQL to SPARQL mappings
17:17:33 [hhalpin]
... so doing this adds a new commitment of time
17:17:48 [hhalpin]
... but I do not say that mapping to SQL operations is something we can live without
17:17:48 [Souri]
17:17:56 [hhalpin]
... but we do have a specific timeframe
17:18:00 [hhalpin]
... and we have to watch it.
17:18:03 [hhalpin]
+1 on watching timeframe
17:18:19 [mhausenblas]
ack jsequeda
17:18:36 [hhalpin]
jsequeda: looking for clarification of language
17:18:48 [hhalpin]
... just want to remind me about DDL, DML, and DQL.
17:19:00 [hhalpin]
Data Definition Language, Data Manipulation Language, Data Query Language.
17:19:08 [hhalpin]
So which are we talking about?
17:19:21 [hhalpin]
17:19:22 [mhausenblas]
ack Souri
17:19:42 [ericP]
17:20:05 [hhalpin]
Souri: We need to make sure every row of the view can be understood
17:20:05 [ericP]
q+ to say that i think e.g. HCLS expects of us
17:20:06 [jsequeda]
hhalpin: ok
17:20:25 [hhalpin]
... so we can design queries based on the relational schema without looking at the queries.
17:20:35 [hhalpin]
... so we'll need only a portion likely
17:21:07 [Souri]
17:21:42 [hhalpin]
Ahmed: So there's a difference between mapping the database schema and actually translating SQL to SPARQL (and vice versa)
17:22:12 [mhausenblas]
ack ericP
17:22:12 [Zakim]
ericP, you wanted to say that i think e.g. HCLS expects of us
17:22:18 [hhalpin]
mhausenblas: ericP is W3C staff on this group
17:22:31 [hhalpin]
EricP: I'm EricP, I'm on HCLS interest group
17:22:42 [hhalpin]
... where I do mostly query mapping and modelling
17:22:52 [hhalpin]
... the world I've seen would like enough of the query mappig
17:23:10 [hhalpin]
... so they can do straight mappings, even a subset of SPARQL
17:23:25 [hhalpin]
... if we define the semantics of the answers, but not the algorithm
17:23:38 [hhalpin]
... then we can lean on the semantics of SQL and SPARQL
17:23:45 [hhalpin]
... so all we apply is the semantics of the mappig
17:24:41 [mhausenblas]
ACTION: mhausenblas to create an issue regarding SQL/SPARQL of our WG
17:24:41 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - mhausenblas
17:24:52 [mhausenblas]
ACTION: mhausenb to create an issue regarding SQL/SPARQL of our WG
17:24:52 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-13 - Create an issue regarding SQL/SPARQL of our WG [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-11-17].
17:25:43 [hhalpin]
mhausenblas: I hesistate to wait too long
17:25:53 [hhalpin]
... to start working on the use-cases
17:26:03 [mhausenblas]
17:27:13 [hhalpin]
Ahmed: Not sure if we should commit.
17:27:36 [hhalpin]
Ahmed: the deadline may be a problem
17:28:28 [mhausenblas]
Propose to accept minutes from last meeting minus the issues discussed today
17:28:34 [hhalpin]
... proposed to accept minutes from meeting.
17:28:46 [hhalpin]
Ahmed: Any outstanding actions?
17:29:01 [hhalpin]
Action doe.
17:29:01 [trackbot]
Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
17:29:06 [hhalpin]
Action done
17:29:06 [trackbot]
Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
17:29:19 [mhausenblas]
17:29:19 [trackbot]
ACTION-12 -- Harry Halpin to inform li ma -- due 2009-11-05 -- OPEN
17:29:19 [trackbot]
17:29:32 [hhalpin]
did inform li ma.
17:29:38 [mhausenblas]
close ACTION-12
17:29:38 [trackbot]
ACTION-12 Inform li ma closed
17:29:59 [hhalpin]
Ahmed: We want to make sure we have representation from OWL and RIF, and any other WGs?
17:30:06 [hhalpin]
mhausenblas: not as far as I know.
17:30:40 [mhausenblas]
ACTION: mhausenb to create Wiki page for liaisons with OWL, RIF, etc.
17:30:40 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-14 - Create Wiki page for liaisons with OWL, RIF, etc. [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-11-17].
17:30:42 [hhalpin]
mhausenblas: can post any more liasons on the wiki.
17:30:51 [mhausenblas]
17:32:21 [hhalpin]
cygri: want to talk about the project, the mapping language, and the requirements of D2RQ.
17:33:16 [hhalpin]
... a database to rdf mapping application
17:33:25 [hhalpin]
... input is any JBDC driver and a number of output interfaces
17:33:28 [hhalpin]
... linked data server
17:33:44 [hhalpin]
... get a big rdf dump from database
17:33:50 [hhalpin]
... that one can then load into a triple store
17:34:11 [hhalpin]
... very easy
17:34:18 [hhalpin]
... can get it working in a few minutes
17:34:23 [hhalpin]
... do not modify database
17:34:28 [hhalpin]
... we assume we have read-only access
17:34:34 [hhalpin]
... we assume we cannot even create a view
17:34:42 [hhalpin]
... not adding keys to database.
17:35:17 [hhalpin]
... started by Chris Bizer in 2004
17:35:22 [hhalpin]
... now maintained by Chris Becker
17:35:28 [hhalpin]
... informed by D2R Map
17:35:31 [hhalpin]
... now legacy
17:35:59 [hhalpin]
... fairly active mailing list, 20 messages per month approx.
17:36:46 [hhalpin]
... Hannover Uni. uses it to host DBLP
17:37:37 [hhalpin]
... downloads took off when we offered the server
17:37:42 [hhalpin]
... not just the Jena-based API
17:37:48 [hhalpin]
... so that we could install and run something.
17:38:16 [hhalpin]
... details about architecture
17:38:23 [hhalpin]
... a normal database
17:38:36 [hhalpin]
... provided by a mapping file
17:38:47 [hhalpin]
... has two main ways of interfacing
17:38:54 [hhalpin]
... jena interface
17:39:02 [hhalpin]
... ability to create rdf dumps
17:39:07 [hhalpin]
... on top of that there is a server
17:39:12 [hhalpin]
... basically a java web application
17:39:30 [hhalpin]
... linked data interface
17:39:44 [hhalpin]
... for exploring and the like.
17:39:59 [hhalpin]
... and a SPARQL endpoint.
17:40:51 [hhalpin]
cygri: we normally use one of the query interfaces to a virtual rdf graph
17:41:02 [hhalpin]
... we do not materialize unless explciltly asked.
17:41:18 [hhalpin]
... on top of data
17:41:27 [hhalpin]
... we can allow different methods of accessing.
17:41:42 [hhalpin]
... ranging in complexity, all on top of virtual rdf graph.
17:41:53 [hhalpin]
... people tend to actually use SPARQL endpoints or create RDF dumps
17:42:07 [hhalpin]
... data integration scenarios.
17:42:49 [hhalpin]
... we would need a federated SPARQL engine.
17:43:15 [hhalpin]
... so people often just dump and put into a triple-store
17:43:24 [hhalpin]
... but people run it in batch every night or weekend.
17:43:50 [hhalpin]
... mapping language
17:43:56 [hhalpin]
... n3 based syntax
17:44:20 [hhalpin]
... real world schemas are very messy
17:44:26 [hhalpin]
... so we don't know if we have views
17:44:34 [hhalpin]
... we made the mapping language very expressive
17:45:28 [hhalpin]
... we have a script that autogenerates a mapping
17:45:37 [hhalpin]
... just uses autogenerated properties and classes
17:45:44 [hhalpin]
... but is a starting poit for cusotmizing
17:45:57 [hhalpin]
... to provide exactly the output they want.
17:46:43 [hhalpin]
mapping process is quite important
17:46:48 [hhalpin]
1. define DB
17:46:51 [hhalpin]
2. define entiites
17:46:59 [hhalpin]
3. add properties (connect person to photo)
17:47:35 [hhalpin]
4. Link entities (here's the database, here's the JBDC deadline)
17:47:47 [hhalpin]
See examples in slides
17:48:16 [hhalpin]
slide 17: we have a classmpa that defines a URI pattern that defines a number of entities defined in the same way
17:48:33 [hhalpin]
cygri: the URI pattern
17:49:00 [hhalpin]
... can instatiate actual URIs from data from the database
17:49:23 [hhalpin]
... so in general, throughout the next slide
17:49:47 [hhalpin]
I think 17 to 18
17:50:19 [hhalpin]
ashok: you are using a column name, could you use a function?
17:50:31 [hhalpin]
cygri: you cannot in our URI patterns, you can only use column names
17:50:51 [hhalpin]
... in other contexts, you could do the same thing that contains some value from the database
17:51:19 [hhalpin]
... you can concatenate a certain string with output of some function, so you can get the same effect.
17:51:35 [hhalpin]
... via using an arbitrary SQL expressio
17:51:51 [hhalpin]
cygri: back to slide 18
17:52:22 [hhalpin]
... so we have conditions that the mapping applies whenever a certain SQL condition applies, such as a user not being deleted.
17:52:38 [hhalpin]
... instead of a URI pattern
17:52:42 [hhalpin]
... we use bnode ID column
17:53:53 [hhalpin]
... we also have on slide 21 some syntactic sugar
17:53:57 [hhalpin]
... for declaring types of rdf entities
17:54:15 [hhalpin]
... slide 22 we show we can use property bridges
17:54:20 [hhalpin]
... to attach properties to the entities
17:55:41 [hhalpin]
... we again use a URI pattern to generating specific types. We can generate data-type literals,etc., but a different set of URIs patterns
17:56:17 [hhalpin]
... on slide 24, I am showing that we can use the SQL expression to concat a hash
17:57:49 [hhalpin]
... we can explain that a certain photo made by a user on slide 25
17:58:26 [hhalpin]
... the slide is correct, we are attaching a property to a photo
17:58:41 [hhalpin]
... we are attaching a particular URI to a particular perso
17:59:03 [hhalpin]
... we want to make sure the photo has the right user ID as part of their URI.
17:59:30 [ericP]
17:59:31 [ericP]
map:People a d2rq:ClassMap;
17:59:31 [ericP]
d2rq:uriPattern “http://.../people/@@User.ID@@”
17:59:32 [ericP]
18:00:49 [ericP]
18:00:53 [hhalpin]
rcygri: slide 27, instead of repeating URI patter
18:00:55 [ericP]
map:photo a d2rq:PropertyBridge; d2rq:belongsToClassMap map:Photos; d2rq:property foaf:made; d2rq:join “User.ID = Photo.UserID”; d2rq:refersToClassMap map:People .
18:00:59 [ericP]
18:01:09 [hhalpin]
... we simply map the URIs pattern
18:01:21 [hhalpin]
... so by refering to the class maps
18:01:36 [hhalpin]
... we will not expose a triple
18:02:25 [hhalpin]
... we allow self-joins re "alias" costruct
18:02:55 [hhalpin]
Ahmed: You are primarily mapping the schema
18:03:20 [hhalpin]
rcygri: we do have a SPARQL engine
18:03:54 [ericP]
q+ to ask if a rule language with SQL bodies and SPARQL graph pattern heads would express d2r
18:03:58 [hhalpin]
... that can try to do the translations to a virtual graph
18:04:30 [hhalpin]
rcygri: Turtle-syntax not a w3c standard
18:04:39 [hhalpin]
... we used Turtle because it is fairly human writable
18:04:45 [hhalpin]
... SPARQL was not around
18:04:55 [ericP]
SPARQL felt free to use turtle for examples in the query specification and the test cases
18:05:15 [ericP]
s/SPARQL/the DAWG (SPARQL) Working Group/
18:05:44 [hhalpin]
... you need to take the SQL apart, and we would like to avoid doing that
18:05:49 [hhalpin]
... differences between database languages
18:05:56 [hhalpin]
18:06:16 [hhalpin]
rcygri: would like to discuss SQL query to RDF template
18:06:23 [hhalpin]
... to RDF graph + SQL fragment issue
18:07:57 [hhalpin]
... we would like to support and have frequet requests for character separated lists and dynamic properties
18:08:32 [ericP]
Dynamic properties seems like a way to express <item8> :nonSale $price vs. <item8> :sale $price
18:09:13 [hhalpin]
... a transformation table would also be useful to have proper URIs based on type-codes.
18:09:36 [hhalpin]
... the main issue is table and column names
18:10:25 [hhalpin]
... general functions beyond the standards
18:10:33 [hhalpin]
... would be a great thing to support
18:10:56 [hhalpin]
... on implementation side we have a lot to support.
18:11:10 [hhalpin]
... but some things vary between databases
18:12:30 [ericP]
18:12:32 [ericP]
18:13:18 [ericP]
q+ to ask if a rule language with SQL algebra bodies and SPARQL algebra heads would express d2r
18:13:18 [hhalpin]
... no dynamic mapping file
18:14:49 [hhalpin]
mhausenblas: Could we continue this discussion mailing list?
18:15:06 [jsequeda]
hhalpin: we are still on the phone
18:15:07 [hhalpin]
Meeting Adjourned.
18:15:13 [hhalpin]
trackbot, end meeting
18:15:13 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
18:15:13 [Zakim]
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
18:15:14 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:15:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
18:15:15 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
18:15:15 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in :
18:15:15 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: mhausenblas to create an issue regarding SQL/SPARQL of our WG [1]
18:15:15 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
18:15:15 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: mhausenb to create an issue regarding SQL/SPARQL of our WG [2]
18:15:15 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
18:15:15 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: mhausenb to create Wiki page for liaisons with OWL, RIF, etc. [3]
18:15:15 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
18:15:27 [hhalpin]
just wait a sec