20:49:55 RRSAgent has joined #au 20:49:55 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/09-au-irc 20:50:07 Zakim, this will be AUWG 20:50:07 ok, Jan; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start 50 minutes ago 20:50:19 Meeting: WAI AU 20:50:38 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009OctDec/0029.html 20:54:23 jeanne has joined #au 20:59:56 WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started 21:00:03 +Jeanne 21:00:27 zakim, code? 21:00:27 the conference code is 2894 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Jan 21:00:35 +??P2 21:00:52 +??P4 21:00:55 zakim, ??P2 is really Jan 21:00:55 +Jan; got it 21:01:18 +Greg_Pisocky 21:01:20 -??P4 21:02:30 +??P4 21:02:44 zakim, ??P4 is really Jutta 21:02:44 +Jutta; got it 21:02:48 Greg has joined #au 21:05:11 +AnnM 21:05:13 AnnM has joined #au 21:08:03 Chair: Jutta Treviranus 21:10:51 Topic: Organizing reviews 21:11:32 AM: Tweeted...lots of people re-tweeted 21:11:58 JT: ADIO still looking for items for newsletter 21:12:17 JT: 6 emails from people sayig tehy wil review 21:12:37 Topic: Reviews 21:13:16 JR: Hope to have proposed changes in a draft for next week. 21:13:19 Topic: Drawing issue for A.3.1.5 Keyboard 21:13:38 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009OctDec/0031.html 21:15:37 + +1.301.963.aaaa 21:19:38 JR: Starts explaining http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009OctDec/0031.html 21:20:20 JT: Comments that even when mouse control is available, users can do much more with keyboard control which allows macros etc 21:20:45 GP: Keyboard plus mouse AT is fine....but keyboard access alone is not reasonable 21:20:58 TB: What about keyboard + AT 21:21:04 GP: THat's what I'm advocating 21:21:34 JT: we are talking aobut diff between functional possibility and functional equivalence 21:23:26 JR: Any objections to the items proposed in A.3.1.2 21:24:30 A.3.1.2 Drawing Keyboard Access (Minimum): The following *drawing 21:24:32 functionality* (if present) is operable through a keyboard interface 21:24:34 (Level A): 21:24:35 (a) inserting new drawing objects; and 21:24:37 (b) selecting drawing objects; and 21:24:38 (c) moving drawing objects; and 21:24:40 (d) modifying the overall size of drawing objects; and 21:24:42 (e) rotating drawing objects; and 21:24:43 (f) adding/editing text for drawing objects 21:24:45 Note: It is possible to implement keyboard access directly (e.g., 21:24:46 keyboard-driven manipulation of drawing objects) or indirectly (e.g., 21:24:48 keyboard editing of drawing object property values). 21:25:02 *Drawing functionality:* 21:25:04 Authoring tool functionality that involves adding or modifying graphical 21:25:06 representations of content (e.g., rotating a shape in a vector graphic 21:25:07 editor, using a freehand “airbrushing ” tool in a raster graphic editor, 21:25:09 resizing a div element in a WYSIWYG webpage editor, adding freehand 21:25:10 waveforms to a visual representation of audio content in an audio 21:25:12 editor). *Drawing objects* are graphical representations of content that 21:25:14 remain independently selectable, in contrast to graphical 21:25:15 representations that do not remain selectable (e.g., when drawing 21:25:17 actions are made directly to a single raster graphic). 21:27:27 - +1.301.963.aaaa 21:27:39 GP: Thinking about "movement" 21:28:11 JRL: Thinking about nudging up, down, left, right 21:28:35 GP: Seems to work for that use-case 21:29:59 JR: Mentions : A.3.1.4 Drawing Keyboard Access (Intermediate): Any drawing 21:30:01 functionality of the authoring tool is operable through a keyboard 21:30:02 interface, except where the input depends on the path of the author's 21:30:04 movement and not just the endpoints. 21:30:06 Note: It is possible to implement keyboard access directly (e.g., 21:30:08 keyboard-driven manipulation of drawing objects) or indirectly (e.g., 21:30:10 keyboard editing of drawing object property values). 21:30:11 JR: And...A.3.1.6 Drawing Keyboard Access (Enhanced): Any drawing functionality of 21:30:13 the authoring tool is operable through a keyboard interface. (Level AAA) 21:30:15 Note: It is possible to implement keyboard access directly (e.g., 21:30:17 keyboard-driven manipulation of drawing objects) or indirectly (e.g., 21:30:18 keyboard editing of drawing object property values). 21:30:22 GP: I guess for AAA that's fine. 21:31:06 JS: THis is a totally different direction...I'm thinking.... 21:31:58 JS: I think the only exceptions should be for advanced pointing functions...like pressure 21:32:24 JT: And direction relations to speed etc? 21:32:25 there should be an exception for advanced pointing functions that don't map to a keyboard, like pressure tablets. 21:35:55 JR: Just concerned if we have a very small exceptiion it will dissuade tools that are quite good but not completely there 21:36:29 JT: Maybe we can reiterate that we are not looking for functional equivelence we are looking for keyboard hooks to make use possible. 21:37:27 GP: In illustrator...can draw rectangle using keyboard...but using keyboard don;t have as many options for precise placement 21:37:34 GP: Is that good enough? 21:38:37 JT: Other thing is that a lot of the alternative input systems that exist in this space are using keyboard functions rather than pointers....e.g. when using gestures...hook in to keyboard rather than the mouse 21:39:11 GP: Endpoints are fine...but definition of path is a problem 21:39:45 GP: And to be fair...people doing high-lvel graphics are using tablets and styluses 21:40:05 GP: So these people are already using alternative input devices 21:40:29 JT: And if you look at how these hook in, they are sending bit by bit info 21:41:21 GP: So I guess I'm saying I don't want us to come up with a defn of accessibility that relegates these tools as being defined as deficient 21:42:32 JT: We have programmatic contol wording already.... 21:42:53 GP: Just trying to make point that functional equivalence is not possible in some cases 21:43:31 GP: Will come up with comments on the proposal 21:44:03 Action GP: Comment on Drawing Keyboard Access proposal by Nov 16 21:44:03 Created ACTION-194 - Comment on Drawing Keyboard Access proposal by Nov 16 [on Greg Pisocky - due 2009-11-16]. 21:45:06 AnnM has left #au 21:45:06 -Jan 21:45:07 -AnnM 21:45:08 -Jutta 21:45:09 -Jeanne 21:45:11 -Greg_Pisocky 21:45:11 WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has ended 21:45:12 Attendees were Jeanne, Jan, Greg_Pisocky, Jutta, AnnM, +1.301.963.aaaa 21:45:31 RRSAgent, make minutes 21:45:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/09-au-minutes.html Jan 21:45:37 RRSAgent, set logs public 21:45:43 Zakim, bye 21:45:43 Zakim has left #au 21:45:48 RRSAgent, bye 21:45:48 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/09-au-actions.rdf : 21:45:48 ACTION: GP to Comment on Drawing Keyboard Access proposal by Nov 16 [1] 21:45:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/09-au-irc#T21-44-03