12:42:31 RRSAgent has joined #prov-xg 12:42:31 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/06-prov-xg-irc 12:42:50 rrsagent, bookmark 12:42:50 See http://www.w3.org/2009/11/06-prov-xg-irc#T12-42-50 12:43:57 zakim, who is here? 12:43:57 sorry, paolo, I don't know what conference this is 12:43:58 On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, paolo, ivan, trackbot 12:44:17 zakim, this is xp-prov 12:44:17 sorry, paolo, I do not see a conference named 'xp-prov' in progress or scheduled at this time 12:44:54 paolo, this command can be given to zakim only maximally one hour before the start of the call 12:45:07 zakim thisis prov-xg 12:45:07 which is still further away... 12:45:18 zakim, this is prov-xg 12:45:18 sorry, paolo, I do not see a conference named 'prov-xg' in progress or scheduled at this time 12:45:50 zakim, bye 12:45:50 Zakim has left #prov-xg 12:45:55 rrsagent, bye 15:06:53 RRSAgent has joined #prov-xg 15:06:53 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/06-prov-xg-irc 15:07:39 zakim, list conferences 15:07:39 I see no active conferences 15:07:41 scheduled at this time are IA_TTWG()10:00AM, Team_(sparql-ent)13:51Z, WAI_EOWG()8:30AM, HTML_CG()10:00AM 15:16:09 zakim, this will be inc_provxg 15:16:09 ok, ivan; I see INC_PROVXG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 44 minutes 15:16:23 zakim, code? 15:16:23 the conference code is 98765 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), ivan 15:16:35 rrsagent, set log public 15:38:29 zakim, sho is here? 15:38:29 sorry, Paolo, I do not understand your question 15:39:09 zakim, who is here? 15:39:09 INC_PROVXG()11:00AM has not yet started, Paolo 15:39:10 On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Paolo, ivan, trackbot 15:39:41 Paolo has joined #prov-xg 15:49:11 olaf has joined #prov-xg 15:51:35 INC_PROVXG()11:00AM has now started 15:51:42 +??P0 15:51:45 YolandaG has joined #prov-xg 15:51:53 -??P0 15:51:55 INC_PROVXG()11:00AM has ended 15:51:55 Attendees were 15:52:14 zakim, this will be inc_provxg 15:52:14 ok, ivan; I see INC_PROVXG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes 15:53:09 INC_PROVXG()11:00AM has now started 15:53:16 +Jerry_Hobbs 15:53:20 zakim, dial ivan-voip 15:53:20 ok, ivan; the call is being made 15:53:21 -Jerry_Hobbs 15:53:21 +Jerry_Hobbs 15:53:22 +Ivan 15:53:35 Zakim, Jerry_Hobbs is really me 15:53:35 +YolandaG; got it 15:53:40 Meeting: prov-xg 15:53:51 Chair: Yolanda Gil 15:54:04 rsagent, please make record public 15:54:16 rrsagent, please make record public 15:55:04 jcheney has joined #prov-xg 15:55:34 +??P2 15:55:52 zakim, ??P2 is Paolo 15:55:52 +Paolo; got it 15:56:13 Zakim, jcheney is me 15:56:13 sorry, jcheney, I do not recognize a party named 'jcheney' 15:56:23 + +1.530.554.aaaa 15:56:52 zakim, who is noisy? 15:56:59 +??P3 15:57:03 ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.530.554.aaaa (48%), Paolo (81%) 15:57:12 q? 15:57:58 zakim, who is here? 15:57:58 On the phone I see YolandaG, Ivan, Paolo, +1.530.554.aaaa, ??P3 15:57:59 On IRC I see jcheney, YolandaG, olaf, Paolo, RRSAgent, Zakim, ivan, trackbot 15:58:07 zakim, mute me 15:58:07 Paolo should now be muted 15:58:09 pgroth has joined #prov-xg 15:58:19 smiles has joined #prov-xg 15:58:29 +??P4 15:58:49 zakim, who is here? 15:58:49 On the phone I see YolandaG, Ivan, Paolo (muted), +1.530.554.aaaa, ??P3, ??P4 15:58:51 On IRC I see smiles, pgroth, jcheney, YolandaG, olaf, Paolo, RRSAgent, Zakim, ivan, trackbot 15:59:05 ??P3 is pgroth 15:59:09 +??P7 15:59:16 Zakim, ??P3 is pgroth 15:59:16 +pgroth; got it 15:59:28 Zakim, jcheney is me 15:59:28 sorry, jcheney, I do not recognize a party named 'jcheney' 15:59:31 + +049308385aabb 15:59:41 zakim, aaaa bertrand_lutaesc 15:59:41 I don't understand 'aaaa bertrand_lutaesc', ivan 15:59:47 Scribe: Paolo 15:59:55 zakim, aaaa is bertrand_lutaesc 15:59:55 +bertrand_lutaesc; got it 15:59:57 Scribenick: Paolo 16:00:02 zakim, who is here? 16:00:02 On the phone I see YolandaG, Ivan, Paolo (muted), bertrand_lutaesc, pgroth, ??P4, ??P7, +049308385aabb 16:00:04 On IRC I see smiles, pgroth, jcheney, YolandaG, olaf, Paolo, RRSAgent, Zakim, ivan, trackbot 16:00:05 +??P8 16:00:25 raphael has joined #prov-xg 16:00:30 zakim, aabb is chris_bizer 16:00:30 +chris_bizer; got it 16:00:51 zakim, who is here? 16:00:51 On the phone I see YolandaG, Ivan, Paolo (muted), bertrand_lutaesc, pgroth, ??P4, ??P7, chris_bizer, ??P8 16:00:54 On IRC I see raphael, smiles, pgroth, jcheney, YolandaG, olaf, Paolo, RRSAgent, Zakim, ivan, trackbot 16:00:56 + +0238059aacc 16:01:14 +Raphael 16:01:26 + +1.915.747.aadd 16:01:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/06-prov-xg-minutes.html raphael 16:01:32 zakim, ??P4 is jcheney 16:01:32 +jcheney; got it 16:01:34 + +49.308.937.aaee 16:01:35 Luc has joined #prov-xg 16:01:49 raphael are you minuting, or am I 16:02:00 zakim, who is here? 16:02:00 On the phone I see YolandaG, Ivan, Paolo (muted), bertrand_lutaesc, pgroth, jcheney, ??P7, chris_bizer, ??P8, +0238059aacc, Raphael, +1.915.747.aadd, +49.308.937.aaee 16:02:03 On IRC I see Luc, raphael, smiles, pgroth, jcheney, YolandaG, olaf, Paolo, RRSAgent, Zakim, ivan, trackbot 16:02:39 zakim, aaee is olaf 16:02:39 +olaf; got it 16:02:50 cool 16:02:50 zakim, aadd is paolo 16:02:50 +paolo; got it 16:03:00 zakim, who is here? 16:03:00 On the phone I see YolandaG, Ivan, Paolo (muted), bertrand_lutaesc, pgroth, jcheney, ??P7, chris_bizer, ??P8, +0238059aacc, Raphael, paolo, olaf 16:03:02 On IRC I see Luc, raphael, smiles, pgroth, jcheney, YolandaG, olaf, Paolo, RRSAgent, Zakim, ivan, trackbot 16:03:18 zakim, paolo is really paolo_silva 16:03:18 sorry, ivan, I do not recognize a party named 'paolo' 16:03:38 zakim, aac is Luc 16:03:38 sorry, Luc, I do not recognize a party named 'aac' 16:03:50 zakim, aacc is luc 16:03:50 +luc; got it 16:03:50 zakim, aacc is Luc 16:03:51 sorry, Luc, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc' 16:03:58 zakim, who is here? 16:03:58 On the phone I see YolandaG, Ivan, Paolo, bertrand_lutaesc, pgroth, jcheney, ??P7, chris_bizer, ??P8, luc, Raphael, paolo, olaf 16:04:00 On IRC I see Luc, raphael, smiles, pgroth, jcheney, YolandaG, olaf, Paolo, RRSAgent, Zakim, ivan, trackbot 16:04:29 zakim, who is here? 16:04:29 On the phone I see YolandaG, Ivan, Paolo (muted), bertrand_lutaesc, pgroth, jcheney, ??P7, chris_bizer, ??P8, luc, Raphael, paolo, olaf 16:04:31 On IRC I see Luc, raphael, smiles, pgroth, jcheney, YolandaG, olaf, Paolo, RRSAgent, Zakim, ivan, trackbot 16:04:36 zakim, ??p7 is smiles 16:04:36 +smiles; got it 16:04:41 zakim, who is here? 16:04:41 On the phone I see YolandaG, Ivan, Paolo (muted), bertrand_lutaesc, pgroth, jcheney, smiles, chris_bizer, ??P8, luc, Raphael, paolo, olaf 16:04:43 On IRC I see Luc, raphael, smiles, pgroth, jcheney, YolandaG, olaf, Paolo, RRSAgent, Zakim, ivan, trackbot 16:05:00 Aleksey has joined #prov-xg 16:05:36 zakim, ??P8 is andreas_peters 16:05:36 +andreas_peters; got it 16:05:39 + +1.518.276.aaff 16:05:49 zakim, aaff is deb 16:05:49 +deb; got it 16:05:58 Topic: welcome 16:06:09 zakim, I am Paolo_Missier 16:06:09 sorry, Paolo, I do not see a party named 'Paolo_Missier' 16:06:29 +andy 16:06:41 zakim, nick Paolo is Paolo_Missier 16:06:41 sorry, Paolo, I do not see a party named 'Paolo_Missier' 16:07:05 Yolanda asks whether any item is missing from the agenda sent in the invitation email 16:07:29 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-prov/2009Nov/0004.html agenda call 16:07:34 Yolanda invites Ivan to talk about the goals of his group 16:07:54 Deborah has joined #prov-xg 16:08:03 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-prov/2009Nov/0004.html 16:08:22 s/his/this 16:08:35 Ivan: semWeb recognizes a need for provenance as part of their own work 16:09:00 ... this is why the xg group was proposed on their side 16:09:36 http://www.dagstuhl.de/en/program/calendar/semhp/?semnr=09271 was the workshop we were in when we got serious about proposing this incubator group 16:09:40 ... input expected: any area that is mature enough to justify a W3C WG 16:10:16 ... XG to WG is a normal progression, doe not always happen but it would be natural 16:10:41 ... after 1 year we may also conclude that nothing is ready to be pushed for stdization 16:10:59 Yolanda opens the floor for questions 16:11:07 to Ivan 16:11:12 q+ 16:11:18 ack jcheney 16:11:29 ssahoo2 has joined #prov-xg 16:11:43 q+ chris 16:11:55 q+ 16:12:13 Yolanda had a chat with TBL including about this XG 16:12:20 so this is gaining visibility 16:12:45 Topic: Round of short introductions 16:13:21 q? 16:13:21 ack chris 16:13:23 +??P26 16:13:50 help 16:14:39 q+ 16:14:55 sorry, i was just ryingn to get the list of commands ... still learning ;-) 16:15:08 zakim, ??P26 is ssahoo2 16:15:09 +ssahoo2; got it 16:15:20 ack olaf 16:15:24 Chris Bizer introducing him ... from Free University of Berlin, very active in the Linked Data / SemWeb field 16:15:25 q+ 16:15:56 Olaf: working on a model for provenance of linked data 16:16:11 extending tools for LD publishing to be provenance-aware 16:16:16 ack Paolo 16:17:45 ack jcheney 16:18:20 J Cheney: uni of Edinburgh, data provenance (Buneman's group) 16:18:35 interest in curated DBs in biology 16:19:53 Paulo Pinheiro da Silva 16:20:21 Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: 8 eight years working in provenance with Deb 16:20:31 inferenceWeb 16:20:49 CyberShare: spread the use of SW tech -- esp in 16:20:55 Earth science and env science 16:21:29 Last week, I said I would make my survey available. It can be found at http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/18176/. Any feedback appreciated! Thanks 16:21:35 Andrea: 16:21:46 luc can I add a link to the use case page? 16:22:16 provenance: vocabularies over OPM: main app is trust for linked data 16:22:24 yes, go ahead! thanks 16:22:50 Bertram / UC Davis: provenance for scientific workflows (Kepler) 16:23:06 ...efficient storage and query of fine-grained provenance 16:23:15 ... foundational models of provenance 16:23:30 ... contributed to the prov challenges 16:24:05 Topic: Group wiki site 16:24:28 Paulo has joined #prov-xg 16:24:33 Paul Groth: wiki ready to use and structured. 16:24:59 ... areas: use cases, surveys, technologies, and events 16:25:26 ... also deliverables, and minutes and confcall-related pages 16:25:44 -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Main_Page wiki URI 16:25:58 naive question sorry - is the wiki linked from http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/ 16:26:14 no it's not 16:26:18 Deb no... 16:26:57 Yolanda proposes to make a distinction b/w proposals from the group vs "things we agree to pursue" 16:27:07 Deborah, Yolanda has writing right on the page located at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/ and could/should? add a link to the wiki 16:27:12 -ssahoo2 16:27:18 ... eg use cases should be proposed, then analyzed, then agreed upon 16:27:33 q+ 16:27:51 action: Pal to add a section and adequate structure for that 16:27:51 Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel 16:27:58 sorry that was Paul 16:28:07 Deb, it is now:-) 16:28:22 q+ 16:29:01 Luc proposes to add presentations as well 16:30:00 +1 16:30:20 Paolo proposes to create a repository of bibliography references 16:30:22 +??P26 16:30:27 ... with appropriate tagging 16:30:33 +q 16:30:41 -paolo 16:31:08 ack Paolo 16:31:40 -??P26 16:31:47 q+ 16:31:50 q- 16:31:57 Yolanda agrees on the idea 16:32:06 Action: paolo to curate the repository 16:32:06 Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel 16:32:51 sorry Paolo we don't have a trackbot yet but i have requested it recently 16:33:20 q- 16:33:35 Paul: proposes to use the wiki area on papers for that 16:33:50 Topic: Proposal for a template for use cases 16:34:15 Yolanda; so that means we cannot log actions formally? that's fine 16:34:22 oh, ok 16:34:42 q+ 16:34:58 yolanda asking about specific areas for use cases, communities we don't cover 16:35:07 ... eg people from Creative Commons 16:35:31 ... they have reqs that may be useful to include 16:35:56 ... similarly for Dublin Core people, who are not currently represented 16:36:14 ack ssahoo2 16:36:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/06-prov-xg-minutes.html raphael 16:36:43 Satya: their own use cases on provenance in microarray apps should be ready soon 16:37:02 paolo - this is from the W3C HCLS BioRDF task force 16:37:12 q+ 16:37:17 q- 16:37:19 good job yolanda and ivan :-) 16:37:29 ack paolo 16:37:56 q+ 16:38:27 +??P26 16:38:39 Paolo: is there a process to advertise this group? 16:38:45 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/anews SW Activity blog 16:38:58 Ivan: no formal process but eg we can use the W3C activity blog 16:39:22 ivan, isn't it already on the blog? 16:39:30 ... question is who is taking responsibility 16:39:44 -> http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2009/09/23/incubator_group_on_provenance_started_at original announcement 16:40:00 ... Ivan made an announcemt on the blog, and 16:40:08 ...is keen to do it again 16:40:11 ivan, typically how big are these working groups 16:40:11 ? 16:40:27 or incubator groups 16:40:38 Yolanda: goal is to reach out to specific communities, rather than sending out blanket invitations 16:40:43 JimMy has joined #prov-xg 16:40:56 Topic: Proposal for a template for use cases 16:41:18 Simon Miles: template is ready, people have been using it 16:41:29 ... rationale is to keep it simple and essential 16:42:22 ... specific field to explain what a current practice is and how it may be replaced by a SW approach 16:43:04 Yolanda: propose to highlight who the users are in the use case 16:43:24 ... and highlight unanticipated uses of provenance 16:43:45 ... which makes provenance useful in un-anticipated ways 16:44:09 ... would like to have very explicitly "un-anticipated users" 16:44:38 +q 16:44:40 Simon: template will have a separate section to that effect 16:44:44 ack iva 16:44:49 ack pgroth 16:45:07 +q 16:45:16 Chris (?): also add existing work done on the use case? 16:45:42 ... add a section to link to relevant work on that case 16:46:05 Action: Simon to amend the current template 16:46:05 Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel 16:46:20 q? 16:46:40 ack pgroth 16:47:05 ack q 16:47:07 Paul Groth: what's the timescale for settling on a template 16:47:26 Yolanda: see next topic. Also, people seem to be ok with it 16:47:56 ...section on limitations: would like to be described in terms of technical challenges 16:48:03 ...involved in addressing the use case 16:48:50 ... in general, categorization of challenges: understanding why is provenance hard is one of the aims of the group 16:49:49 Simon: some limitations may be more social than technological 16:50:14 Yolanda: let's move forward with this template 16:50:22 Topic: Discussion on high level timeline for the group 16:50:49 Yolanda: group will expire in 09/2010 16:51:20 ...when do we think we can stop with use case collection? 16:51:31 ...when do we start working on a roadmap? 16:51:40 ... and on the state of the art on provenance 16:51:51 ... soliciting questions on this 16:51:58 q+ 16:52:07 ack luc 16:52:25 Luc: Q: what are the additional major milestones for the XG? 16:52:44 Yolanda: 3 top level items: 1) set of use cases 16:53:07 ... 2) a roadmap for how the community should move forward 16:53:14 ... 3) SOTA report 16:53:14 q+ 16:53:28 ... 2) may lead to a WG proposal to W3C 16:53:46 ack ivan 16:54:14 Ivan: use cases should be timeboxed -- 2 months? 16:54:35 ... (end of 2009) 16:55:31 ... early next year: start with technology overviews 16:55:48 ... 2-3 people who volunteer to edit a SOTA overview 16:56:06 q+ 16:56:17 ack paolo 16:57:12 Paolo: avoid waterfall model 16:58:10 Yolanda: report should be informed by use cases, that's why they come first 16:58:53 Yolanda: propose to work on roadmap doc over the summer 16:59:03 q+ 16:59:07 Action: circulate proposed timeline 16:59:07 Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel 16:59:22 Topic: Planning for next meeting, agenda and scribe 17:00:25 I jus want to emphasize that Paolo did a wonderful job 17:00:50 -YolandaG 17:00:52 -chris_bizer 17:00:53 -smiles 17:00:54 -??P26 17:00:54 -andy 17:00:55 -Raphael 17:00:55 -Ivan 17:00:56 zakim, list attendees 17:00:58 -luc 17:00:59 -jcheney 17:01:01 -deb 17:01:04 -andreas_peters 17:01:05 -olaf 17:01:05 pgroth has left #prov-xg 17:01:07 As of this point the attendees have been Ivan, YolandaG, Paolo, +1.530.554.aaaa, pgroth, +049308385aabb, bertrand_lutaesc, chris_bizer, +0238059aacc, Raphael, +1.915.747.aadd, 17:01:10 ... jcheney, +49.308.937.aaee, olaf, luc, smiles, andreas_peters, +1.518.276.aaff, deb, andy, ssahoo2 17:01:12 -bertrand_lutaesc 17:01:14 -pgroth 17:01:24 rrsagent, please draft minutes 17:01:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/06-prov-xg-minutes.html Paolo 17:03:49 -Paolo 17:03:50 INC_PROVXG()11:00AM has ended 17:03:51 Attendees were Ivan, YolandaG, Paolo, +1.530.554.aaaa, pgroth, +049308385aabb, bertrand_lutaesc, chris_bizer, +0238059aacc, Raphael, +1.915.747.aadd, jcheney, +49.308.937.aaee, 17:03:54 ... olaf, luc, smiles, andreas_peters, +1.518.276.aaff, deb, andy, ssahoo2 17:04:31 zakim, bye 17:04:31 Zakim has left #prov-xg 17:04:37 RRSAgent, bye 17:04:37 I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/06-prov-xg-actions.rdf : 17:04:37 ACTION: Pal to add a section and adequate structure for that [1] 17:04:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/06-prov-xg-irc#T16-27-51 17:04:37 ACTION: paolo to curate the repository [2] 17:04:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/06-prov-xg-irc#T16-32-06 17:04:37 ACTION: Simon to amend the current template [3] 17:04:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/06-prov-xg-irc#T16-46-05 17:04:37 ACTION: circulate proposed timeline [4] 17:04:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/06-prov-xg-irc#T16-59-07