18:18:51 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
18:18:51 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-aapi-irc
18:19:31 <Eliot_Graff> Eliot_Graff has joined #aapi
18:19:41 <wendy> wendy has joined #aapi
18:20:27 <wendy> aloha gregory!!
18:21:56 <oedipus> is there a telephonnic bridge for this slot?
18:26:55 <oedipus> FYI: html wg schedule for day 1: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tAbypWTudUfZZQMT2iSR6xg&output=html
18:27:04 <oedipus> being updated in real-time
18:31:55 <Laura> Laura has joined #aapi
18:33:04 <Laura> Hi
18:56:22 <myakura> myakura has joined #aapi
19:02:54 <silvia1> silvia1 has joined #aapi
19:03:14 <silvia1> what room is this meeting in?
19:03:43 <silvia1> (actual location in hotel - there are three of us wondering around)
19:05:01 <myakura> silvia1: 1243 in the north tower
19:05:25 <Eliot_Graff> Eliot_Graff has joined #aapi
19:05:48 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
19:05:59 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #aapi
19:06:04 <Eliot_Graff> I'll try to keep notes. Feel free to correct
19:06:19 <wendy> wendy has joined #aapi
19:06:32 <Eliot_Graff> setting up projection
19:06:36 <Eliot_Graff> intros
19:06:44 <Eliot_Graff> Cynthia Shelly, Microsoft
19:07:10 <Eliot_Graff> Steve Faulkner
19:07:31 <Eliot_Graff> Wendy Chisholm
19:07:39 <Eliot_Graff> Glenn Bookout
19:08:10 <Eliot_Graff> Matt, adobe
19:08:17 <Eliot_Graff> Sylvia Pfieffer
19:08:26 <Eliot_Graff> Msataka Yakurat
19:08:31 <Eliot_Graff> Eliot Graff
19:08:34 <Eliot_Graff> John Folio
19:08:44 <Eliot_Graff> Eric Carlson
19:08:45 <silvia> silvia has joined #aapi
19:08:51 <myakura> s/Yakurat/Yakura/
19:09:00 <myakura> s/Folio/Foliot/
19:09:14 <eric_carlson> eric_carlson has joined #aapi
19:09:15 <Eliot_Graff> Michael(tm) Smith
19:09:28 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
19:11:18 <Eliot_Graff> Janina Sajka
19:11:30 <Eliot_Graff> things to cover
19:11:37 <oedipus> zakim, what's the conference code?
19:11:37 <Zakim> sorry, oedipus, I don't know what conference this is
19:12:13 <Eliot_Graff> working on setting up a phone link
19:12:58 <Eliot_Graff> Things to cover: ARIA & HTML both have ways to define semantics of elements
19:13:15 <Eliot_Graff> ...oely related but created separately
19:13:33 <oedipus> zakim, who is here?
19:13:33 <Zakim>  has not yet started, oedipus
19:13:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see cyns, eric_carlson, silvia, wendy, Stevef, Zakim, Eliot_Graff, myakura, Laura, RRSAgent, oedipus, Hixie, mjs, MichaelC
19:13:41 <Eliot_Graff> HTML is not very well suited for making up UIs
19:13:47 <Eliot_Graff> "marking"
19:14:08 <Stevef> link to google doc of ARIA mapping  http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlVP5_A996c5dG9RSE9GMy1JaVlBQ2dIWDliczJHckE&hl=en_GB work in progress
19:14:10 <myakura> s/making/marking/
19:14:19 <Eliot_Graff> turned difs and spans but often doesn't work for users with assistive tech
19:14:29 <Eliot_Graff> ARIA fills some gaps
19:14:41 <Eliot_Graff> HTML5 fills some of those gaps, but in different ways
19:15:30 <Eliot_Graff> the goal here is to understand overlaps bet HTML and ARIA, hoew they relate
19:15:48 <Eliot_Graff> and specifically for HTML, when you apply ARIA, how do the changes take effect
19:16:17 <myakura> s/hoew/how/
19:16:36 <Eliot_Graff> spreadsheet shows overlaps and HTML implementations
19:17:04 <Eliot_Graff> this is taken from Ian's work, but not identical to Henri's work
19:17:15 <JF> JF has joined #aapi
19:17:15 <Eliot_Graff> 1st two columns are what's in HTML5
19:18:14 <cyns> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/rdf_model.png
19:18:21 <Stevef> link to google doc of ARIA mapping http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlVP5_A996c5dG9RSE9GMy1JaVlBQ2dIWDliczJHckE&hl=en_GB work in progress
19:18:30 <Eliot_Graff> this second link is the model for ARIA roles and how they relate
19:18:55 <Eliot_Graff> input types are similar to HTML mapping
19:19:22 <Eliot_Graff> HTML interractive section: defines a command
19:19:37 <Eliot_Graff> all of the elements that "do stuff"
19:19:46 <cyns> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#interactive-elements
19:20:20 <myakura> command def in html5: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/commands.html#commands
19:20:30 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> ARIA spec says ARIA always wins & HTML says don't put a bunch of roles
19:21:40 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> HTML maintains backward compatibility to non-ARIA browsers
19:21:57 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #aapi
19:22:07 <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
19:22:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-aapi-minutes.html MikeSmith
19:22:38 <glenn> glenn has joined #aapi
19:22:53 <Eliot_Graff> <SF> if you put a role of button on a link, it doesn't change anything but the AT knows it's a button
19:23:13 <Eliot_Graff> ...a hint to user to tell how to interact, doesn't impose any new behaviors
19:23:27 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> n event handler does change the behavior
19:23:40 <Eliot_Graff> ...ARIA patches that mismatch
19:24:16 <Eliot_Graff> ...a whole lot of DHTML is not accessible and ARIA's a fix
19:25:18 <Eliot_Graff> ...we want to avoid errors that someone repurposes an element
19:26:00 <Eliot_Graff> <SF> if people get a warning or type mismatch, they may take the ARIA off to get rid of the error. e don't want that.
19:26:04 <Hixie> the spec says that validators have to complain about the element, not the aria role, which should take care of that
19:26:16 <Eliot_Graff> Other topics other than what's on the spreadsheet?
19:26:24 <Eliot_Graff> doesn't seem to be
19:26:58 <Eliot_Graff> look at the spreadsheet: first column is the feature, second is the default role, third is accepted overrides
19:27:27 <Eliot_Graff> <CS>widget types and structure typs. a big dsemantic diff
19:27:54 <Eliot_Graff> ...in HTML content and UI are mixed
19:28:14 <Eliot_Graff> fire alarm is going off
19:28:20 <Stevef> ARIA roles added to the a element should be conforming in HTML5 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8000
19:29:17 <Eliot_Graff> <SF> link is to initial bug around the issue
19:29:44 <Eliot_Graff> Look at <a>. It defines a command; link is in the input roles.
19:29:52 <Eliot_Graff> it's overriden in the wild
19:30:06 <Eliot_Graff> button is like that
19:30:22 <Eliot_Graff> all of the things in HTML that define a command (bottom of sheet)
19:30:46 <Eliot_Graff> In the spreadsheet: should it be overriden? Where? Why?
19:32:50 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> we are trying to agree that there are groups of overrides: structures, widgets, (and commands as a subset of widget) is the proposal
19:33:10 <Eliot_Graff> ....HTML has navigational kinds of rols, too.
19:33:34 <Eliot_Graff> ....one other thing that the TF will do is to look at the sets and try to get them to match.
19:33:50 <Eliot_Graff> ...looking for input here if these groupings make sense; 
19:34:15 <Eliot_Graff> <WC> are there objections?
19:34:38 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> HTML elelments will throw an error if you put an ARIA role on them
19:34:49 <Hixie> it's not clear from the minutes what the goal of these groupings would be
19:36:03 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> Goal of groupings would allow more overrides than are in the spec, to support things that are currently done in the wild: like repurposing lists as menus; links as buttons
19:36:11 <Eliot_Graff> ...tables as tab panels, etc.
19:36:33 <Eliot_Graff> ...and to have fewer validation warnings for ARIA implementation. 
19:36:49 <Eliot_Graff> ...don't want a page to be less valid if you add ARIA.
19:37:07 <Eliot_Graff> ....if the warnings cause developers to remove ARIA, it would be a bad thing.
19:37:21 <Eliot_Graff> ....Seeing nods around the table
19:38:04 <Eliot_Graff> Looking for consensus around this approach
19:38:13 <Hixie> so the categories would be things that are conforming and correct, things that are wrong and not conforming, and what?
19:38:23 <mattmay> mattmay has joined #aapi
19:38:44 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> Grouping is about UI elements versus document elements
19:39:30 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> Example: if you take an HTML element and add compatible ARIA (in the same category) then that would be conformaing and correct
19:40:02 <Eliot_Graff> ...if you add ARIA that's not in the same category, the DOM would still do it, but there would be a conformance error (but the browser wouldn't care)
19:40:14 <MikeSmith> s/intros/Topic: Intros
19:40:36 <Eliot_Graff> ...if you took a link and made it a menu item, that would be OK, but if you made it a contentinfo, that would not be OK
19:41:11 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> let's look at the spreadsheet and examine specific cases
19:41:23 <Eliot_Graff> ...to see if they make sense
19:41:44 <MikeSmith> i/Things to cover:/Topic: ARIA and HTML, semantics and overrides
19:41:51 <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
19:41:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-aapi-minutes.html MikeSmith
19:42:17 <Eliot_Graff> <a> is a link and is a command. Command elements (in override column) 
19:42:42 <Eliot_Graff> <address> Steve thinks contentinfo is incorrect
19:42:56 <Eliot_Graff> contentinfo is a langmodel role
19:43:45 <Eliot_Graff> it can contain information, but you should only have one contentinfo role in a single document
19:44:21 <Eliot_Graff> if the address has a default role of conteninfo it can cause duplication
19:44:35 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> here's a place where ARIA shoul add a role
19:44:35 <MikeSmith> <prolix> contentinfo is broader than <addres>
19:44:35 <MikeSmith> <prolix> there isn't a 1-to-1 mapping between <address> in HTML5 and contentinfo in ARIA
19:45:00 <prolix> prolix has joined #aapi
19:45:09 <prolix> contentinfo is broader than <addres>
19:45:17 <prolix> there isn't a 1-to-1 mapping between <address> in HTML5 and contentinfo in ARIA
19:46:29 <Eliot_Graff> <SF> the danger is that there's --in theory--instances of repurposing of doc element into widget role is not conformant in HTML, but you can't check that conformance
19:47:05 <Eliot_Graff> ...you can change the way the user interacts, and it's OK, but when you stick an ARIA role on it, it CAN be checked. ARIA flags document conformance issues
19:47:31 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> Broader issue of late-bound attributes, modified via script
19:47:40 <Eliot_Graff> ..what can be done about that--if anything?
19:48:11 <Eliot_Graff> ....having things found in the validator seems incorrect and may cause them to take the ARIA off.
19:48:29 <prolix> list of ARIA roles in http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab/
19:49:03 <Eliot_Graff> <EC> it'll be difficult. the event handler will do different thingss, depending on use
19:49:23 <prolix> target should be trate by the UA as a suggestion -- a strong suggestion, but a suggestion by default, nevertheless
19:49:32 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> maybe checking if a handler has a role?
19:49:54 <Eliot_Graff> <SF> what point does scripted action cross into something that shouldn't be allowed
19:50:43 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> is the real underlying issue that people are putting event handlers on things that are not supposed to? Does it make sense that an address have  a click handler?
19:51:05 <Eliot_Graff> <SF> It will change the conformance rules considerable for some elements
19:51:20 <Eliot_Graff> Does MS have any thoughts?
19:51:31 <prolix> but are you superfreaked out?
19:51:47 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> Does it seem likely to be a deployment blocker?
19:51:51 <Eliot_Graff> <MS> Hmmmm
19:52:18 <wendy> wendy has joined #aapi
19:52:44 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> The new Accessability model from Microsoft has a concept of patterns
19:53:02 <Eliot_Graff> ...woorth exploring for ARIA2: this is both a heading and clickable
19:53:22 <Eliot_Graff> <MS> What exactly would change?
19:53:34 <prolix> structural elements, mainly
19:53:44 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> a lot of the document items would not be allowed to be overridden
19:54:50 <Eliot_Graff> <MS> This would be a warning?
19:55:03 <Eliot_Graff> ....Then it wouldn't require a schema change
19:55:27 <Eliot_Graff> <SP> The validator should offer hints to make valid pages
19:55:28 <prolix> very good idea
19:56:15 <Eliot_Graff> <MS> when Hixie made some things conforming but obsolete, we added warnings. If it's just changes the conformance checker, then it's doable
19:56:39 <Eliot_Graff> <MS> Validator by design is made to conform to the spec
19:56:50 <Eliot_Graff> Looking for Henri's input
19:57:37 <Eliot_Graff> <SF> The warning message should be agnostic: NOT "take off the ARIA"
19:57:44 <Eliot_Graff> Resolution?
19:58:44 <hsivonen> hsivonen has joined #aapi
19:59:36 <Eliot_Graff> Resolution: Event handlers on document elements with strong semantics would trigger validation warnings, as would ARIA roles on those same document elements. "Obsolete but conforming"
20:00:06 <MikeSmith> hsivonen, any thoughts on that?
20:00:07 <Eliot_Graff> work item: figure out what those elements are
20:00:13 <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
20:00:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-aapi-minutes.html MikeSmith
20:00:48 <silvia> also, it would be a good idea to make suggestions to the author of the web page on how to improve their markup: did you mean to use a <button> element instead?
20:01:04 <Eliot_Graff> Discussion: <area>
20:01:05 <prolix> prolix has joined #aapi
20:01:08 <hsivonen> MikeSmith: warning on event handler attributes on strong-semantic elements categorically may likely clash with legitimate cowpaths
20:01:23 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> What works for anchor should probably work for area
20:01:23 <hsivonen> s/MikeSmith:/MikeSmith,/
20:02:13 <Eliot_Graff> <SF> RE: <area> what about an image that has a group of buttons? 
20:02:22 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> Links and buttons are similar
20:03:28 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> We're trying to say that those cowpaths are bad practice
20:03:38 <MikeSmith> hsivonen: ↑
20:03:42 <prolix> cows are not only notoriously bad navigators, but are subject to the herd mentality...
20:03:44 <Eliot_Graff> ...we could say if you have onClick, you have to have ARIA role, too
20:03:57 <MikeSmith> s/hsivonen:/hsivonen,
20:04:39 <hsivonen> whining about onclick without a role might work
20:04:52 <hsivonen> hard to say without trying it 
20:05:21 <silvia> general agreement here in the room
20:05:26 <hsivonen> but e.g. <a> may have onclick and still behave like a link
20:05:31 <Eliot_Graff> <MS> the validator is still experiemental, so we're free to play around with it.
20:05:38 <hsivonen> so in that case, it would be pointless to whine about lack of role
20:06:09 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> the event handler is kind of a way to see if people are using semantically correct HTML
20:06:12 <MikeSmith> we have a test instance of the validator at qa-dev that we can play around with more freely
20:06:25 <hsivonen> in general, my gut feeling is that warning about event handler attributes isn't going to go down well with authors
20:06:28 <MikeSmith> s/qa-dev/qa-dev.w3.org/
20:07:17 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> a href="role:button" is probably OK, but a href role:paragraph is not
20:07:23 <hsivonen> the crucial question is: is there really a very strong correlation between event handler attributes and a legitimate need of explicit role
20:07:36 <prolix> http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab/
20:07:46 <cyns> onclick should be allowable on elements that "define a command" but not on those that don't
20:07:49 <hsivonen> that is, will a warning "hey, you need a role here, too" be more often right or wrong
20:08:59 <cyns> That will be more often right, I think.  By adding the event handler, you change the behavior, and implicitly changing the role
20:09:10 <Eliot_Graff> <SF> We're saying "you're using an ARIA role and you shouldn't be"
20:09:42 <Eliot_Graff> <SP> As an author, this is educating. I wouldn't be bothered.
20:09:59 <Eliot_Graff> <WC> UW has something like this
20:10:45 <Eliot_Graff> <WC> How are organizations like Facebook going to feel about adding all this?
20:11:15 <hsivonen> cyns, you can also be retaining the semantics (e.g. link is still conceptually a link) but overriding the UA implementation of the semantic with JS
20:11:21 <hsivonen> lots of sites do that with links
20:11:30 <hsivonen> they don't change to being buttons
20:12:19 <cyns> true.  I wouldn't warn for onlcick on a link, but I would warn for onclick on an <h2> or an <address> and other things that have strong document semnatics, but aren't usually clickable.
20:12:32 <cyns> but not on a div or span
20:13:03 <Eliot_Graff> <SF> I have an issue with having all these warnings.
20:13:28 <Eliot_Graff> ....poeple want to check to see if this piece of code will wrk properly, but the don't want to be told about bad/good practice
20:13:51 <Eliot_Graff> <SF> We need to keep the warnings to a minimum
20:13:56 <prolix> amen, cyns
20:14:07 <Eliot_Graff> <SF> we shouldn't be warning for the most part about roles
20:14:18 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> What are the role of warnings?
20:14:36 <Eliot_Graff> Should we have best practive evaluators and thereby reduce the number of warnings we issue
20:15:14 <Eliot_Graff> <MS> the philosophy behind the validator is informaing you about something you don't know already. It's not to let you know about stuff you're already doing and are aware of it.
20:15:33 <Eliot_Graff> ...you don't want it to be annoying
20:15:58 <Eliot_Graff> <SF> I'd want to know if I've used the right role and associated attributes
20:16:25 <Eliot_Graff> ....have I spelled ARIAPressedState correcltly? I don't want to be told I can't do it.
20:16:51 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> Do we want to warn of changing strong semantic elements or not?
20:17:16 <Eliot_Graff> <EC> Can we even do that?
20:17:55 <hsivonen> should <h2> have role=button if onclick collapses the section?
20:18:00 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> That's really the wuestino. How loud to we want the validator?
20:18:00 <prolix> as noisy as the author wants stroke needs
20:18:34 <Eliot_Graff> <EC> To the extant that we're certain that adding and event handler changes the semantic behavior
20:18:52 <Eliot_Graff> Is this a policy question that bigger than this group?
20:19:04 <Eliot_Graff> What's the consensus about the noisiness of the validator?
20:19:17 <Eliot_Graff> Does this go back to diff validators focus on diff things?
20:20:16 <Eliot_Graff> <MS> you want some level of interoperability among conformance checkers. They'll start using the one that gives them the least noise.
20:20:27 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> There are some that are accessibility
20:20:56 <Eliot_Graff> ....maybe these are something an accessibility evaluation tool would look for rather than an HTML validator
20:22:09 <Eliot_Graff> ....we can put this stuff in the spec, we can be loosey goosey
20:22:42 <prolix> separate equals not equal
20:22:43 <Eliot_Graff> <MS> Do we want to raise awareness around more naive authors? Then we don't want them to have to use a special tool. It should be in the spec
20:23:13 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> Many authors are not aware that adding event handlers to these elements is a bad practice
20:23:25 <Eliot_Graff> <SF> Is this a bad practice used?
20:23:44 <Eliot_Graff> <MS> I don't know, but we can deploy this and tell them
20:24:05 <prolix> it just isn't done!
20:24:17 <Eliot_Graff> <MS> If it's disallowed in 10 years, we can have another discussion about being more serious.
20:24:46 <Eliot_Graff> <JS> There's a path toward deprecation that we can follow
20:25:19 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> They should be using the right tag in the first place
20:25:33 <Eliot_Graff> <JS> This tells them that this works but is not good
20:25:40 <MikeSmith> s/can deploy this/could deploy this experimentally
20:25:44 <Eliot_Graff> ....maybe in HTML6 it'll change
20:26:15 <MikeSmith> hsivonen, talking about your h2 role=button question now
20:28:48 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> Want to explore multiple roles in ARIA2, not in ARIA1
20:29:59 <Eliot_Graff> <SF> could you having something like and ARIA-action attribute?
20:30:36 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> MSA has a default action, too
20:32:24 <Eliot_Graff> <CS> we hae a good question to bring to the larger group: Do we want changing of element handler and role semantics via attributes to be deprecated?
20:32:51 <prolix> thanks, all
20:33:18 <prolix> will the afternoon meeting e held in this IRC channel?
20:33:31 <Eliot_Graff> rssagent make minutes
20:33:54 <Eliot_Graff> rssagent, make minutes
20:33:59 <prolix> put a comma after it
20:34:12 <prolix> rrsagend, make minutes
20:34:24 <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
20:34:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-aapi-minutes.html MikeSmith
20:34:35 <Eliot_Graff> :)
20:36:34 <hsivonen> hsivonen has left #aapi
20:37:02 <prolix> thanks, eliot_graff for scribing!
20:41:17 <mjs> mjs has joined #aapi
20:52:35 <MikeSmith> s/<CS>/CS: /g
20:52:55 <MikeSmith> s/CS:  /CS: /g
20:53:01 <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
20:53:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-aapi-minutes.html MikeSmith
20:54:04 <MikeSmith> s/<SF>/SF: /g
20:54:10 <MikeSmith> s/<MS>/MS: /g
20:54:22 <MikeSmith> s/<JS>/JS: /g
20:55:11 <MikeSmith> s/<WC>/WC: /g
21:02:41 <oedipus> meeting: ARIA/HTML5 breakout session, Santa Clara, California
21:02:47 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
21:02:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-aapi-minutes.html oedipus
21:24:51 <eric_carlson> eric_carlson has joined #aapi
21:32:39 <silvia> silvia has joined #aapi
21:37:42 <myakura> myakura has joined #aapi
21:38:47 <myakura> do we continue to use this channel for the canvas-a11y session?
21:39:54 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
21:41:20 <MikeSmith> myakura, yeah, let's
21:42:23 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has changed the topic to: canvas accessibility discussion
21:50:51 <Philip> Philip has joined #aapi
21:54:46 <silvia> silvia has joined #aapi
21:55:18 <JF> JF has joined #aapi
21:57:36 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #aapi
21:59:08 <MikeSmith> Stevef, are you back in suite 1234?
21:59:43 <Eliot_Graff> Eliot_Graff has joined #aapi
21:59:44 <Stevef> you mean suite 1243, no not yet will be soon
22:02:57 <silvia> silvia has joined #aapi
22:02:59 <prolix> by the way to those scribing, if you don't take precautionary measures, the date will rollover at midnight UTC and create a new minutes file
22:03:44 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #aapi
22:04:39 <myakura> it seems we are moving to #html-wg2 for canvas-a11y discussion
22:05:23 <prolix> thanks, myakura
22:09:24 <mjs> mjs has joined #aapi
22:10:31 <eric_carlson> eric_carlson has joined #aapi
22:36:47 <davidb> davidb has joined #aapi
22:36:56 <silvia> silvia has joined #aapi
22:48:39 <Laura> Laura has joined #aapi
23:01:16 <kford> kford has joined #aapi
23:07:21 <JF> JF has left #aapi
23:37:24 <eric_carlson> eric_carlson has joined #aapi