IRC log of rdfa on 2009-10-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:50:11 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #rdfa

14:50:11 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-irc

14:50:27 [manu]

scribe: manu

14:50:31 [manu]

Chair: Manu Sporny

14:50:37 [manu]

Present: Manu_Sporny

14:50:43 [manu]

zakim, this will be rdfa

14:50:43 [Zakim]

ok, manu; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes

14:51:03 [manu]

Meeting: RDF in XHTML Task Force

14:51:15 [manu]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Oct/0044.html

14:51:26 [manu]

Previous: http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html

14:51:59 [manu]

Regrets: Steven Pemberton

14:52:08 [manu]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:52:08 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html manu

14:52:12 [manu]

rrsagent, make log public

14:52:50 [manu]

s/Regrets: Steven Pemberton/Regrets: Steven_Pemberton

14:52:53 [manu]

s/Regrets: Steven Pemberton/Regrets: Steven_Pemberton/g

14:52:56 [manu]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:52:56 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html manu

14:56:41 [manu]

Topic: Action Items

14:59:55 [ShaneM]

ShaneM has joined #rdfa

15:00:56 [markbirbeck]

markbirbeck has joined #rdfa

15:01:10 [markbirbeck]

zakim, code?

15:01:14 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

15:01:21 [Zakim]

the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

15:01:24 [Zakim]

+McCarron

15:01:33 [ShaneM]

zakim, I am McCarron

15:01:44 [manu]

Present+ Shane_McCarron

15:01:47 [markbirbeck]

zakim, I am Spartacus

15:01:56 [Zakim]

+??P12

15:01:59 [Zakim]

ok, ShaneM, I now associate you with McCarron

15:01:59 [Zakim]

sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named 'Spartacus'

15:02:10 [Zakim]

+??P29

15:02:12 [markbirbeck]

zakim, I am ??

15:02:12 [Zakim]

sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named '??'

15:02:12 [manu]

zakim, I am ??P12

15:02:13 [ivan]

zakim, dial ivan-voip

15:02:13 [Zakim]

+manu; got it

15:02:13 [Zakim]

ok, ivan; the call is being made

15:02:15 [Zakim]

+Ivan

15:02:22 [markbirbeck]

zakim, I am ??

15:02:26 [Zakim]

+markbirbeck; got it

15:03:06 [Zakim]

+Ben_Adida

15:03:15 [benadida]

benadida has joined #rdfa

15:05:41 [manu]

ACTION: Manu change test suite to use Exclusive Canonical XMLLiteral tests [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action05]

15:05:43 [manu]

-- continues

15:05:59 [manu]

Ivan: I raised some questions on mailing list -- what's the view of future RDFa plans.

15:06:06 [manu]

Ivan: What do we want to do/publish?

15:06:32 [manu]

Ivan: I'd like to know the plan.

15:06:52 [manu]

ACTION: Manu speak with Andy Seaborne about SPARQL.org implementation re: c14n [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

15:07:15 [manu]

-- continues

15:09:26 [ShaneM]

harness at http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/

15:09:44 [ShaneM]

oh. no. not that one!

15:09:44 [manu]

Manu: bug with Jena, working with Andy Seaborne to figure out what's wrong

15:09:52 [manu]

http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/test-suite/

15:10:29 [manu]

Manu: That's the new test harness with XHTML1, HTML4, HTML5

15:10:46 [manu]

ACTION: Shane to re-draft XMLLiteral errata text [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]

15:10:49 [manu]

-- continues

15:10:57 [manu]

ACTION: Ben to update JS xmlns getter code on implementors' guide for xhtml mime type support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]

15:11:15 [manu]

-- continues

15:11:44 [manu]

Topic: Next steps for RDFa

15:11:55 [manu]

Mark: A couple of different things

15:12:07 [manu]

Mark: The basic question of prioritization...

15:12:19 [manu]

Mark: Javascript/DOM API, @profile, etc.

15:12:40 [manu]

Mark: What are our motivations?

15:12:52 [manu]

Mark: and where will this work be done?

15:13:19 [manu]

Mark: A bit of frustration because we don't know where we're putting the work.

15:13:33 [manu]

Mark: Hampering new ideas and innovation because we don't know where to put the work.

15:13:55 [manu]

Mark: Could we put a couple of new things into the HTML+RDFa draft without damaging anything?

15:14:21 [manu]

Mark: Should we try to address HTML+RDFa issues?

15:14:38 [ShaneM]

q+ to discuss publication issues

15:14:47 [manu]

ack ShaneM

15:15:06 [manu]

Shane: Read through the thread - I think that there are some procedural issues...

15:15:25 [manu]

Shane: From a publication perspective, we wanted existing REC to remain relevant as a base spec.

15:15:45 [manu]

Shane: Possible to introduce things in HTML+RDFa level, we don't want XHTML+RDFa to get out of step with HTML version

15:15:58 [manu]

Shane: Don't know if we can do radical changes to CURIE processing.

15:16:21 [manu]

Ivan: Procedural issues - putting on my admin hat...

15:16:37 [manu]

Ivan: WG charter stops at end of the year, for the time being we don't know what would replace it.

15:16:46 [manu]

Ivan: We have discussed an IG or a WG for RDFa.

15:17:07 [manu]

Ivan: There are two major stumbling blocks to address with RDFa WG..

15:17:34 [manu]

Ivan: If the work this group would do is exclusively HTML... then there will be push-back to make this group as purely under HTML WG.

15:18:30 [manu]

Ivan: Other stumbling block is that this TF is mostly Invited Experts... will be difficult for W3C management to accept a WG filled with mostly Invited Experts.

15:18:52 [manu]

Ivan: We could issue edited REC of RDFa - where we try to fold in all the errata.

15:19:18 [manu]

Ivan: I don't think that this group will have the time to do much more than that.

15:19:30 [manu]

Ben: Who should we submit this feedback to?

15:20:14 [manu]

Ben: A bit concerned about the difficulty in creating a WG for technology that has been clearly adopted by Google/Yahoo.

15:20:28 [manu]

Ben: How do we ensure that W3C is reflecting actual usage.

15:20:53 [manu]

Ivan: You should raise that point as an AC rep.

15:21:18 [manu]

Ivan: We should try to see which W3C members would be interested in joining the RDFa WG.

15:21:55 [manu]

Ivan: Yahoo! is back as a member now, so I would hope that Peter might want to join.

15:22:15 [manu]

Ivan: Who else?

15:22:50 [manu]

Ivan: I won't be at TPAC, unfortunately - Thomas Roessler will be there, so he will talk with Raman and Peter, maybe.

15:23:07 [manu]

Ivan: If we have enough momentum, we can come up with a charter for an RDFa WG.

15:24:43 [manu]

Manu: Why don't we commit to going forward with an RDFa WG.

15:25:13 [manu]

Ivan: We need at least one more member to be interested.

15:25:53 [manu]

Ivan: We have to be careful in the charter - we are not doing this as HTML - work items must be included that are not HTML-specific.

15:26:06 [manu]

Ivan: The RDFa attribute set can be used in non-HTML/XML dialects as well.

15:26:16 [manu]

Ivan: Perhaps, RDFa Core 1.1 should be a charter item.

15:27:39 [manu]

ACTION: Ben, Ivan and Manu to draft an RDFa WG and move that initiative forward.

15:27:56 [manu]

ACTION: Ivan to talk with Peter Mika at ISWC2009 about RDFa WG.

15:28:14 [manu]

ACTION: Ben to finish authoring RDFa WG charter.

15:28:47 [manu]

ACTION: Manu to try and find other interested parties in RDFa WG.

15:29:04 [manu]

Ivan: We should mark up the RDFa WG charter in HTML

15:30:05 [manu]

Mark: quick suggestions for new members of RDFa WG - Linked Data community

15:30:12 [manu]

Mark: OpenLink - Virtuoso

15:31:06 [manu]

Mark: Gov2 stuff - maybe they would be interested in joining.

15:32:07 [manu]

Topic: Discuss and approve Shane's errata text

15:32:20 [manu]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Oct/0010.html

15:33:13 [ivan]

q+

15:34:23 [manu]

Manu: Any objections to approving this erratum?

15:35:01 [manu]

Ivan: What does the current XHTML spec say about attribute values?

15:35:11 [manu]

Shane: It defers to HTM4, which is case insensitive.

15:35:15 [manu]

Ivan: Ah, yes.

15:35:33 [manu]

Manu: Any objections?

15:35:35 [manu]

Ivan: +1

15:35:44 [ShaneM]

+1

15:35:46 [markbirbeck]

+1

15:35:47 [benadida]

+1

15:36:18 [manu]

RESOLUTION: Include erratum on case insensitivity for attribute values: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Oct/0010.html

15:37:28 [manu]

Topic: Test Cases

15:37:30 [manu]

http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/test-suite/

15:38:49 [manu]

Manu: TC 134

15:39:21 [manu]

Manu: This is affected by the resolution we just made... upper-case attribute values for things like rel="NEXT" should generate a triple.

15:39:25 [manu]

Ivan: Looks okay to me

15:39:30 [manu]

Manu: +1

15:39:57 [manu]

Shane: +1

15:40:03 [benadida]

+1

15:40:24 [manu]

Mark: We might want to change the URL to something that makes more sense like, http://example.org/next

15:40:40 [ShaneM]

Looks good to me

15:40:47 [manu]

RESOLUTION: TC 134 approved

15:42:08 [manu]

Manu: Moving on to TC 140

15:43:07 [manu]

Manu: Do all of us agree that this markup shouldn't generate a triple

15:43:35 [manu]

Manu: This should be a negative test and should have documentation stating that it is negative.

15:48:36 [manu]

Mark: Should we make this use BOUND?

15:48:40 [manu]

Mark: or NOT BOUND?

15:50:25 [manu]

Manu: Rather not change the way we do negative tests right now, could change it in the future.

15:50:35 [ShaneM]

+1

15:50:35 [ivan]

+1

15:50:37 [manu]

Manu: Any objections to passing TC 140?

15:50:40 [markbirbeck]

+1

15:50:40 [manu]

Manu: +1

15:50:43 [benadida]

+1

15:50:50 [manu]

RESOLUTION: TC 140 approved

15:51:58 [manu]

Manu: TC 142

15:53:01 [manu]

Shane: This is a bit pathological, but that's fine...

15:53:21 [manu]

Mark: If you wanted to make statements about XML, this would be fine.

15:56:09 [manu]

Mark: Can you have an element that has <xml:test>... in RDF/XML?

15:56:25 [markbirbeck]

?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>

15:56:25 [markbirbeck]

<rdf:RDF

15:56:26 [markbirbeck]

xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"

15:56:26 [markbirbeck]

xmlns:rdfs="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#"

15:56:26 [markbirbeck]

xmlns:xhv="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab#"

15:56:27 [markbirbeck]

xmlns:xml="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace"

15:56:27 [markbirbeck]

>

15:56:29 [markbirbeck]

<rdf:Description rdf:about="http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/test-suite/test-cases/xhtml1/0142.xhtml">

15:56:32 [markbirbeck]

<xml:test>Test</xml:test>

15:56:33 [markbirbeck]

</rdf:Description>

15:56:36 [markbirbeck]

</rdf:RDF>

15:57:04 [manu]

Ivan: Strictly speaking, this is illegal...

15:57:17 [manu]

Shane: I think it's reserved, not illegal.

15:58:06 [manu]

ACTION: Shane to look at XML spec and see if xml: is illegal in RDF/XML re: TC 142

15:58:58 [manu]

Ivan: regrets for next week

15:59:22 [Zakim]

-McCarron

15:59:23 [Zakim]

-markbirbeck

15:59:23 [Zakim]

-manu

15:59:23 [Zakim]

-Ben_Adida

15:59:23 [Zakim]

-Ivan

15:59:25 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

15:59:26 [Zakim]

Attendees were McCarron, manu, Ivan, markbirbeck, Ben_Adida

15:59:45 [manu]

Ivan: I will be at ISWC - let me know if you guys have any ideas on who to talk with about RDFa.

15:59:53 [manu]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:59:53 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html manu

16:00:01 [manu]

zakim, bye

16:00:01 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #rdfa

16:49:58 [manu]

rrsagent, actions

16:49:58 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'actions', manu. Try /msg RRSAgent help

16:50:01 [manu]

rrsagent, actions?

16:50:01 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'actions'

16:50:12 [manu]

rrsagent, stop logging

16:50:12 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop logging', manu. Try /msg RRSAgent help

16:50:31 [manu]

rrsagent, silence

16:55:22 [manu]

Present+ Ben_Adida, Mark_Birbeck, Ivan_Herman, Shane_McCarron

16:55:30 [manu]

s/Include erratum/Include XHTML\+RDFa erratum/g

16:55:33 [manu]

rrsagent, draft minutes

16:55:33 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html manu