IRC log of rdfa on 2009-10-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:30:47 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #rdfa

14:30:47 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-irc

14:30:55 [msporny]

zakim, this will be rdfa

14:30:55 [Zakim]

ok, msporny; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 30 minutes

14:31:11 [msporny]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Oct/0020.html

14:34:54 [msporny]

scribenick: msporny

14:35:07 [msporny]

Previous: http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary

14:35:19 [msporny]

Present: Manu_Sporny

14:35:23 [msporny]

Regrets: Steven_Pemberton

14:36:53 [msporny]

Meeting: RDF in XHTML Task Force

14:37:14 [msporny]

Regrets+ Ben_Adida

14:37:59 [msporny]

msporny has changed the topic to: RDFa

14:38:09 [msporny]

msporny has changed the topic to: RDFa Task Force

14:38:51 [msporny]

Topic: Action Items

14:38:58 [msporny]

ACTION: ShaneM to craft errata about case insensitive reserved words. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

14:39:00 [msporny]

-- done

14:39:15 [msporny]

ACTION: ShaneM to craft errata text about canonical XMLLiterals [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]

14:39:17 [msporny]

-- done

14:39:26 [msporny]

ACTION: Ben to update JS xmlns getter code on implementors' guide for xhtml mime type support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]

14:39:27 [msporny]

-- continues

14:40:34 [manu]

scribenick: manu

14:40:54 [manu]

Chair: Manu_Sporny

14:41:35 [manu]

rrsagent, make log public

14:41:39 [manu]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:41:39 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html manu

14:53:05 [ShaneM]

ShaneM has joined #rdfa

15:00:39 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

15:00:47 [Zakim]

+??P39

15:00:51 [manu]

zakim, I am ??P39

15:00:51 [Zakim]

+manu; got it

15:01:39 [Zakim]

+ +1.763.767.aaaa

15:01:53 [ShaneM]

zakim, aaaa is ShaneM

15:01:53 [Zakim]

+ShaneM; got it

15:02:19 [ivan]

zakim, dial ivan-voip

15:02:19 [Zakim]

ok, ivan; the call is being made

15:02:21 [Zakim]

+Ivan

15:05:21 [manu]

Ivan: When does HTML+RDFa get published?

15:05:28 [manu]

Manu: Today at some point...

15:06:31 [manu]

Topic: RDFa Updates

15:06:37 [manu]

Manu: Any updates from Mark?

15:06:59 [manu]

Ivan: We have a book chapter on RDFa that we wrote.

15:07:34 [manu]

Ivan: There is a book that Handler and Fentel and Dom?? which is published by Stringer

15:07:40 [manu]

Ivan: Handbook for the Semantic Web

15:08:13 [manu]

Ivan: Collects usual technologies and presents them.

15:08:26 [manu]

Ivan: Still being heavily edited, published sometime late 2009

15:10:23 [manu]

Manu: HTML+RDFa being published later today

15:10:53 [manu]

Manu: @version and @profile are being fought in HTML WG

15:12:19 [manu]

Ivan: @version and @profile are not mandatory

15:12:34 [manu]

Manu: Right, but they're important for the default generation of XMLLiterals

15:12:47 [manu]

Manu: We probably don't want to do it in RDFa 1.1

15:13:01 [manu]

Ivan: That would be an incompatible change on RDFa 1.0

15:13:09 [manu]

Shane: If there is no versioning mechanism, then we can't make the change.

15:15:58 [manu]

Manu: @profile was obsoleted in HTML5, so that creates an issue for us

15:16:25 [manu]

Manu: So we have an HTML5 EPB spec for addressing the @version and @profile issue.

15:17:10 [manu]

Ivan: So we would be forced to not make backwards-incompatible changes.

15:17:33 [manu]

Ivan: I also don't like that by default new lines and other formatting characters are saved.

15:20:00 [manu]

Ivan: What about the xmlns: issue?

15:20:23 [manu]

Manu: Microsoft seems to be backing it... but no proposal yet.

15:22:52 [markbirbeck]

markbirbeck has joined #rdfa

15:23:20 [markbirbeck]

Damn...forgot.

15:23:28 [markbirbeck]

Or rather distracted. :(

15:23:31 [manu]

Topic: Discuss and approve Shane's errata text

15:23:35 [markbirbeck]

Are you guys still there...

15:23:39 [markbirbeck]

Ok...dialling in.

15:23:44 [manu]

Reserved word values and case-sensitivity

15:23:48 [markbirbeck]

zakim, code?

15:23:48 [Zakim]

the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

15:23:52 [manu]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Oct/0010.html

15:24:55 [Zakim]

+ +0208761aabb

15:25:00 [manu]

Shane: New feedback from Philip Taylor

15:25:07 [markbirbeck]

zakim, i am aabb

15:25:07 [Zakim]

+markbirbeck; got it

15:25:16 [markbirbeck]

zakim, i am very late

15:25:16 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'i am very late', markbirbeck

15:25:44 [manu]

... on XMLLiteral issue.

15:28:58 [manu]

Manu: So, we might need to defer talking about the XMLLiteral issue based on Philips feedback

15:29:11 [manu]

Ivan: Ivan is right, it should be Exclusive Canonical XML if we are going to do this

15:29:22 [manu]

Ivan: Yes, it's a mess right now, so I'll try to explain clearly.

15:29:44 [manu]

Ivan: It should be Exclusive Canonical XML if we are going to require this.

15:30:09 [manu]

... in my understanding, if RDFa Processors serialize the triples it will depend on which serialization they use

15:30:27 [manu]

... if they serialize into TURTLE, they have to use Exclusive XML Canonicalization.

15:30:39 [manu]

... if they serialize to RDF/XML, they don't have to.

15:30:59 [manu]

... we have to be careful in the examples and the primer, that they should be in Exclusive Canonical XML.

15:31:15 [manu]

... there are some tests today that are more permissive than they should be.

15:31:51 [manu]

... RDF/XML spec says that XML Literals must produce a canonical representation of that.

15:33:43 [manu]

Manu: Do you think RDFa should place this in the spec, to ensure downstream RDF tools don't have to worry about c14n.

15:34:01 [manu]

Ivan: I think it places a burden on impelmentations that only generate RDF/XML?

15:35:56 [markbirbeck]

s/impelmentations/implementations/

15:37:29 [manu]

Shane: It's necessary because the triples that we generate should be identical... if they aren't, it affects triple stores.

15:37:56 [manu]

Ivan: I think it's good advice to give, but don't think it should be a requirement...

15:40:14 [manu]

Manu: It causes a problem when RDFa Processors are used to generate RDF/XML which is then sent to SPARQL processors.

15:40:29 [manu]

Ivan: I think we need feedback from developers before we make this requirement.

15:41:06 [manu]

Mark: I agree with both of Ivan's point.

15:42:03 [manu]

s/point./points./

15:42:26 [manu]

Mark: At the very least, I think we should look at what this means for HTML+RDFa vs. XHTML+RDFa

15:43:53 [manu]

Mark: So, this might only apply to the XHTML version.

15:44:10 [manu]

Mark: So, we have to be very careful - because prefixes might not have come from xmlns:, they might have come from @token.

15:44:23 [manu]

s/So, we have to/We have to/

15:44:36 [manu]

Ivan: having something in the document that is advisory is a good idea.

15:46:02 [manu]

Manu: Would we feel okay with making this a recommendation, but not a requirement?

15:48:17 [manu]

Shane: I think it's Philips issue, primarily.

15:52:36 [manu]

Ivan: How much work would it require to Canonicalize XML in your implementation, Shane?

15:55:00 [manu]

Shane: I need to look at the new spec Philip sent out first.

15:55:09 [manu]

Manu: Ok, so we just need to change the RDFa Test Suite

15:55:27 [manu]

ACTION: Shane to re-draft XMLLiteral errata text

15:55:45 [manu]

ACTION: Manu change test suite to use Exclusive Canonical XMLLiteral tests

15:56:13 [manu]

ACTION: Manu speak with Andy Seaborne about SPARQL.org implementation re: c14n

15:56:43 [Zakim]

-ShaneM

15:56:44 [Zakim]

-manu

15:56:44 [Zakim]

-markbirbeck

15:56:46 [Zakim]

-Ivan

15:56:47 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

15:56:48 [Zakim]

Attendees were manu, +1.763.767.aaaa, ShaneM, Ivan, +0208761aabb, markbirbeck

15:57:25 [manu]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:57:25 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html manu

15:57:33 [manu]

Present+ Mark_Birbeck

15:57:39 [manu]

Present+ Ivan_Herman

15:57:48 [manu]

Present+ Shane_McCarron

15:57:54 [manu]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html manu

16:51:56 [manu]

s/Ivan is right/Philip is right/

17:30:21 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #rdfa

18:12:45 [manu]

rrsagent, bye

18:12:45 [RRSAgent]

I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-actions.rdf :

18:12:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ShaneM to craft errata about case insensitive reserved words. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action03] [1]

18:12:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-irc#T14-38-58

18:12:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ShaneM to craft errata text about canonical XMLLiterals [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] [2]

18:12:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-irc#T14-39-15

18:12:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to update JS xmlns getter code on implementors' guide for xhtml mime type support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] [3]

18:12:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-irc#T14-39-26

18:12:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Shane to re-draft XMLLiteral errata text [4]

18:12:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-irc#T15-55-27

18:12:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Manu change test suite to use Exclusive Canonical XMLLiteral tests [5]

18:12:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-irc#T15-55-45

18:12:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Manu speak with Andy Seaborne about SPARQL.org implementation re: c14n [6]

18:12:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-irc#T15-56-13