14:30:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
14:30:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-irc
14:30:55 <msporny> zakim, this will be rdfa
14:30:55 <Zakim> ok, msporny; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 30 minutes
14:31:11 <msporny> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Oct/0020.html
14:34:54 <msporny> scribenick: msporny
14:35:07 <msporny> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary
14:35:19 <msporny> Present: Manu_Sporny
14:35:23 <msporny> Regrets: Steven_Pemberton
14:36:53 <msporny> Meeting: RDF in XHTML Task Force
14:37:14 <msporny> Regrets+ Ben_Adida
14:37:59 <msporny> msporny has changed the topic to: RDFa
14:38:09 <msporny> msporny has changed the topic to: RDFa Task Force
14:38:51 <msporny> Topic: Action Items
14:38:58 <msporny> ACTION: ShaneM to craft errata about case insensitive reserved words. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]
14:39:00 <msporny> -- done
14:39:15 <msporny> ACTION: ShaneM to craft errata text about canonical XMLLiterals [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]
14:39:17 <msporny> -- done
14:39:26 <msporny> ACTION: Ben to update JS xmlns getter code on implementors' guide for xhtml mime type support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]
14:39:27 <msporny> -- continues
14:40:34 <manu> scribenick: manu
14:40:54 <manu> Chair: Manu_Sporny
14:41:35 <manu> rrsagent, make log public
14:41:39 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:41:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html manu
14:53:05 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #rdfa
15:00:39 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
15:00:47 <Zakim> +??P39
15:00:51 <manu> zakim, I am ??P39
15:00:51 <Zakim> +manu; got it
15:01:39 <Zakim> + +1.763.767.aaaa
15:01:53 <ShaneM> zakim, aaaa is ShaneM
15:01:53 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
15:02:19 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:02:19 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:02:21 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:05:21 <manu> Ivan: When does HTML+RDFa get published?
15:05:28 <manu> Manu: Today at some point...
15:06:31 <manu> Topic: RDFa Updates
15:06:37 <manu> Manu: Any updates from Mark?
15:06:59 <manu> Ivan: We have a book chapter on RDFa that we wrote.
15:07:34 <manu> Ivan: There is a book that Handler and Fentel and Dom?? which is published by Stringer
15:07:40 <manu> Ivan: Handbook for the Semantic Web
15:08:13 <manu> Ivan: Collects usual technologies and presents them.
15:08:26 <manu> Ivan: Still being heavily edited, published sometime late 2009
15:10:23 <manu> Manu: HTML+RDFa being published later today
15:10:53 <manu> Manu: @version and @profile are being fought in HTML WG
15:12:19 <manu> Ivan: @version and @profile are not mandatory
15:12:34 <manu> Manu: Right, but they're important for the default generation of XMLLiterals
15:12:47 <manu> Manu: We probably don't want to do it in RDFa 1.1
15:13:01 <manu> Ivan: That would be an incompatible change on RDFa 1.0
15:13:09 <manu> Shane: If there is no versioning mechanism, then we can't make the change.
15:15:58 <manu> Manu: @profile was obsoleted in HTML5, so that creates an issue for us
15:16:25 <manu> Manu: So we have an HTML5 EPB spec for addressing the @version and @profile issue.
15:17:10 <manu> Ivan: So we would be forced to not make backwards-incompatible changes.
15:17:33 <manu> Ivan: I also don't like that by default new lines and other formatting characters are saved.
15:20:00 <manu> Ivan: What about the xmlns: issue?
15:20:23 <manu> Manu: Microsoft seems to be backing it... but no proposal yet.
15:22:52 <markbirbeck> markbirbeck has joined #rdfa
15:23:20 <markbirbeck> Damn...forgot.
15:23:28 <markbirbeck> Or rather distracted. :(
15:23:31 <manu> Topic: Discuss and approve Shane's errata text
15:23:35 <markbirbeck> Are you guys still there...
15:23:39 <markbirbeck> Ok...dialling in.
15:23:44 <manu> Reserved word values and case-sensitivity
15:23:48 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?
15:23:48 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
15:23:52 <manu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Oct/0010.html
15:24:55 <Zakim> + +0208761aabb
15:25:00 <manu> Shane: New feedback from Philip Taylor
15:25:07 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am aabb
15:25:07 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it
15:25:16 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am very late
15:25:16 <Zakim> I don't understand 'i am very late', markbirbeck
15:25:44 <manu> ... on XMLLiteral issue.
15:28:58 <manu> Manu: So, we might need to defer talking about the XMLLiteral issue based on Philips feedback
15:29:11 <manu> Ivan: Ivan is right, it should be Exclusive Canonical XML if we are going to do this
15:29:22 <manu> Ivan: Yes, it's a mess right now, so I'll try to explain clearly.
15:29:44 <manu> Ivan: It should be Exclusive Canonical XML if we are going to require this.
15:30:09 <manu> ... in my understanding, if RDFa Processors serialize the triples it will depend on which serialization they use
15:30:27 <manu> ... if they serialize into TURTLE, they have to use Exclusive XML Canonicalization.
15:30:39 <manu> ... if they serialize to RDF/XML, they don't have to.
15:30:59 <manu> ... we have to be careful in the examples and the primer, that they should be in Exclusive Canonical XML.
15:31:15 <manu> ... there are some tests today that are more permissive than they should be.
15:31:51 <manu> ... RDF/XML spec says that XML Literals must produce a canonical representation of that.
15:33:43 <manu> Manu: Do you think RDFa should place this in the spec, to ensure downstream RDF tools don't have to worry about c14n.
15:34:01 <manu> Ivan: I think it places a burden on impelmentations that only generate RDF/XML?
15:35:56 <markbirbeck> s/impelmentations/implementations/
15:37:29 <manu> Shane: It's necessary because the triples that we generate should be identical... if they aren't, it affects triple stores.
15:37:56 <manu> Ivan: I think it's good advice to give, but don't think it should be a requirement...
15:40:14 <manu> Manu: It causes a problem when RDFa Processors are used to generate RDF/XML which is then sent to SPARQL processors.
15:40:29 <manu> Ivan: I think we need feedback from developers before we make this requirement.
15:41:06 <manu> Mark: I agree with both of Ivan's point.
15:42:03 <manu> s/point./points./
15:42:26 <manu> Mark: At the very least, I think we should look at what this means for HTML+RDFa vs. XHTML+RDFa
15:43:53 <manu> Mark: So, this might only apply to the XHTML version.
15:44:10 <manu> Mark: So, we have to be very careful - because prefixes might not have come from xmlns:, they might have come from @token.
15:44:23 <manu> s/So, we have to/We have to/
15:44:36 <manu> Ivan: having something in the document that is advisory is a good idea.
15:46:02 <manu> Manu: Would we feel okay with making this a recommendation, but not a requirement?
15:48:17 <manu> Shane: I think it's Philips issue, primarily.
15:52:36 <manu> Ivan: How much work would it require to Canonicalize XML in your implementation, Shane?
15:55:00 <manu> Shane: I need to look at the new spec Philip sent out first.
15:55:09 <manu> Manu: Ok, so we just need to change the RDFa Test Suite
15:55:27 <manu> ACTION: Shane to re-draft XMLLiteral errata text
15:55:45 <manu> ACTION: Manu change test suite to use Exclusive Canonical XMLLiteral tests
15:56:13 <manu> ACTION: Manu speak with Andy Seaborne about SPARQL.org implementation re: c14n
15:56:43 <Zakim> -ShaneM
15:56:44 <Zakim> -manu
15:56:44 <Zakim> -markbirbeck
15:56:46 <Zakim> -Ivan
15:56:47 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
15:56:48 <Zakim> Attendees were manu, +1.763.767.aaaa, ShaneM, Ivan, +0208761aabb, markbirbeck
15:57:25 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:57:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html manu
15:57:33 <manu> Present+ Mark_Birbeck
15:57:39 <manu> Present+ Ivan_Herman
15:57:48 <manu> Present+ Shane_McCarron
15:57:54 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:57:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html manu
16:51:56 <manu> s/Ivan is right/Philip is right/
17:30:21 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdfa
18:12:45 <manu> rrsagent, bye
18:12:45 <RRSAgent> I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-actions.rdf :
18:12:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ShaneM to craft errata about case insensitive reserved words. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action03] [1]
18:12:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-irc#T14-38-58
18:12:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ShaneM to craft errata text about canonical XMLLiterals [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] [2]
18:12:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-irc#T14-39-15
18:12:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to update JS xmlns getter code on implementors' guide for xhtml mime type support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] [3]
18:12:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-irc#T14-39-26
18:12:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane to re-draft XMLLiteral errata text [4]
18:12:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-irc#T15-55-27
18:12:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu change test suite to use Exclusive Canonical XMLLiteral tests [5]
18:12:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-irc#T15-55-45
18:12:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu speak with Andy Seaborne about SPARQL.org implementation re: c14n [6]
18:12:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-irc#T15-56-13