IRC log of pf on 2009-10-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:59:42 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/09-pf-irc
14:59:44 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs member
14:59:44 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #pf
14:59:46 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
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ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML)11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:59:47 [trackbot]
Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
14:59:47 [trackbot]
Date: 09 October 2009
14:59:51 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make log public
15:00:01 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(HTML)11:00AM has now started
15:00:02 [Zakim]
+Cooper
15:00:56 [janina]
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15:01:11 [janina]
zakim, call janina
15:01:11 [Zakim]
ok, janina; the call is being made
15:01:12 [Zakim]
-Cooper
15:01:12 [Zakim]
+Cooper
15:01:13 [Zakim]
+Janina
15:01:40 [janina]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Cooper, Janina
15:02:04 [Zakim]
+??P0
15:03:21 [janina]
Meeting: PF/HTML_Caucus telecon
15:03:21 [janina]
Chair: Janina_Sajka
15:03:21 [janina]
agenda: this
15:03:21 [janina]
agenda+ identify scribe
15:03:21 [janina]
agenda+ Recent Developments: HTML WG Process; Joint TF Organization
15:03:21 [janina]
agenda+ WCAG HTML5 Comments: Next Steps
15:03:24 [janina]
agenda+ next and future meetings
15:03:26 [janina]
agenda+ be done
15:03:28 [janina]
15:03:49 [Laura]
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15:03:58 [Stevef]
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15:04:00 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly
15:04:01 [janina]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:01 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Cooper, Janina, Steve_Faulkner, Cynthia_Shelly
15:09:49 [janina]
http://www.w3.org/2009/09/25-pf-minutes.html
15:10:11 [cyns]
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15:10:37 [janina]
http://www.w3.org/2009/09/25-pf-minutes.html
15:16:39 [Zakim]
+Rich
15:17:04 [richardschwerdtfe]
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15:17:25 [Stevef]
Google Wave Preview Accessibility Review http://webaim.org/blog/google-wave-preview-accessibility-review/
15:22:24 [richardschwerdtfe]
agenda?
15:22:34 [MichaelC]
Grand list: http://www.w3.org/2009/08/html5-spec-review
15:23:17 [janina]
scribe: janina
15:23:32 [richardschwerdtfe]
scribe: Rich
15:23:46 [richardschwerdtfe]
Topic: WCAG HTML 5 comments
15:24:10 [richardschwerdtfe]
Janina: Michael has the list and will respond to Loretta
15:24:25 [richardschwerdtfe]
Janina: Should we enter defects in Bugzilla?
15:24:35 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: We should file them as formal PF comments
15:25:00 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: I don't know whether we need to file these in my name, Janina, or PF
15:25:14 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: We should have an accessibility keyword
15:25:26 [richardschwerdtfe]
Stevef: how are we going to sign off?
15:25:54 [richardschwerdtfe]
Janina: We need to file these as PF comments which will buy us time on the documents
15:26:06 [richardschwerdtfe]
Stevef: I want to discuss what came out of yesterday's meeting
15:26:20 [richardschwerdtfe]
Stevef: Rich and I attended the call
15:26:24 [MichaelC]
HTML Bugzilla: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=HTML%20WG
15:26:47 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: what should we use as the keyword - a11y or pfwg?
15:27:13 [richardschwerdtfe]
Janina: Both. a11y for things that are general accessibility issues
15:27:26 [richardschwerdtfe]
Janina: pfwg for general working group issues
15:28:04 [richardschwerdtfe]
Cynthia and Rich: we don't need to vet keywords through the working group
15:28:54 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: I will just create two keywords. a11y - accessibility issues. PFWG - Formal comments from the Protocols and Formats working group
15:29:56 [richardschwerdtfe]
Stevef: where is the key word?
15:30:06 [Stevef]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi
15:30:25 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: you go into there and go into htmlwg
15:30:37 [richardschwerdtfe]
Stevef: I am in htmlwg
15:30:51 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: it is like the third from the last text for the keyword button
15:31:03 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: perhaps you have different permsissions
15:31:17 [richardschwerdtfe]
Janina: who has the power to describe what keywords
15:31:46 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: we need to establish whether using keywords is the proper procedure
15:32:11 [richardschwerdtfe]
Agenda?
15:32:41 [richardschwerdtfe]
Topic: Recent Developments - HTML WG Process; Joint TF
15:33:10 [Zakim]
+Cooper
15:33:19 [Zakim]
-Cooper
15:33:31 [richardschwerdtfe]
Rich: who is coordinating?
15:34:54 [richardschwerdtfe]
Rich: we could have either Cynthia or I represent the HTML side
15:35:48 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: I would prefer that some non-accessibility person for HTML
15:36:39 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: I have 3 concerns with the process
15:37:38 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: I am concerned that there is too much power in the editors hand in the process for sign off
15:38:16 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: I am concerned about the procedure. If the commenter is not satisfied then you can escalate to the group.
15:38:33 [Laura]
HTML Working Group Decision Policy
15:38:39 [Laura]
http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html
15:39:45 [richardschwerdtfe]
Cynthia: everyone here has a day job so we cannot write accessibility proposals on the existing 100 or so bugs this month
15:40:06 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: I think having the loop hole is problematic
15:40:17 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: there is not consensus on the proposals
15:40:50 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: you could have a situation as to where the editor and commenter are satisfied but nothing else is
15:41:06 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: It could be very lite weight
15:41:15 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: I prefer that it be more active on the survey
15:41:59 [richardschwerdtfe]
Rich: you did not raise the issues on the process on the call. Can we still raise the issue?
15:42:12 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: Yes, through the back channel.
15:42:50 [Zakim]
+Tim_Boland
15:43:20 [Tim]
Tim has joined #pf
15:45:10 [richardschwerdtfe]
Rich and Cynthia: need to split up duties with chair and/or editor
15:45:41 [richardschwerdtfe]
SteveF: there are 70 or so points of change now. and 40 or so need bugs submitted
15:45:59 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: this can't be submitted as one bug
15:46:39 [richardschwerdtfe]
Cynthia: no. Maciej thought this was best submitted in indivdual bugs where possible
15:47:28 [richardschwerdtfe]
Cynthia: should we referred by extension or inclusion?
15:47:48 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: We don't need an extension but we should refer to the aria spec.
15:48:04 [richardschwerdtfe]
Cynthia: how do we do a second version of ARIA.
15:48:35 [richardschwerdtfe]
Cynthia: I think we should do a second version of ARIA.
15:50:35 [richardschwerdtfe]
Rich: we will need a separate spec. for ARIA that is referenced and we need to address the individual elements where equivalent aria semantics are available
15:50:49 [richardschwerdtfe]
Cynthia: politics should be addressed when the TF is up and running
15:53:05 [richardschwerdtfe]
Cynthia: Rich could you come if someone covered your hotel
15:53:16 [richardschwerdtfe]
Rich: will see. I have a november 4 commitment
15:54:46 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: I belive the HTML chairs are relying on people to volunteer
15:54:53 [richardschwerdtfe]
s/belive/believe/
15:55:20 [richardschwerdtfe]
Cynthia: Laura volunteered but said she did not have a lot of time to participate
15:55:34 [richardschwerdtfe]
SteveF: Bruce Lawson might be interested
15:55:46 [richardschwerdtfe]
SteveF: I will contact Bruce
15:55:54 [richardschwerdtfe]
Janina: Please do
15:56:36 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: Mike Smith and I need to connect
15:56:49 [richardschwerdtfe]
Janina: main thing is get this to happen
15:58:17 [richardschwerdtfe]
Janina: I don't think we can have a meeting until we decide on the chairs
15:58:35 [richardschwerdtfe]
Janina: can try to decide for next Friday
15:58:45 [richardschwerdtfe]
Michael: don't think that is possible
15:59:56 [richardschwerdtfe]
SteveF: I know Bruce. we should get a reasonable response.
16:00:50 [Stevef]
sam ruby's SVG open keynote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd7ILwrFwQY
16:00:53 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
16:00:54 [Zakim]
-Rich
16:01:03 [Zakim]
-Cooper
16:01:11 [Zakim]
-Janina
16:01:39 [Zakim]
-Steve_Faulkner
16:01:41 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
16:01:41 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(HTML)11:00AM has ended
16:01:42 [Zakim]
Attendees were Cooper, Janina, Steve_Faulkner, Cynthia_Shelly, Rich, Tim_Boland
16:02:17 [janina]
zakim, bye
16:02:17 [Zakim]
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16:02:27 [janina]
rrsagent, make log public
16:02:34 [janina]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:02:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/09-pf-minutes.html janina
16:03:32 [richardschwerdtfe]
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