15:09:03 RRSAgent has joined #xproc 15:09:03 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-xproc-irc 15:09:04 Meeting: XML Processing Model WG 15:09:04 Date: 8 Oct 2009 15:09:04 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2009/10/08-agenda 15:09:04 Meeting: 155 15:09:04 Chair: Norm 15:09:06 Scribe: Norm 15:09:08 ScribeNick: Norm 15:09:12 Zakim, who's on the phone? 15:09:12 On the phone I see PGrosso, Vojtech, Ht (muted), alexmilowski, Norm 15:09:22 Present: Norm, Paul, Vojtech, Henry, Alex 15:10:02 Topic: Accept this agenda? 15:10:02 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2009/10/08-agenda 15:10:04 Accepted. 15:10:20 Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting? 15:10:20 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2009/09/17-minutes 15:10:20 Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting? 15:10:20 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2009/10/01-minutes 15:10:25 Accepted. 15:10:34 Topic: Next meeting: telcon 15 Oct 2009 15:10:41 Regrets: Mohamed 15:10:45 No regrets given. 15:11:23 Topic: Review of open issues 15:11:37 Henry gives regrets for 8 Oct 15:12:56 Topic: Review of open issues 15:12:58 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/11/cr-comments/ 15:13:29 Topic: 163: Output port may be connected to... 15:14:50 Vojtech: I wonder if err:XS0005 is clear in the case of compound steps. 15:16:14 Some discussion. 15:20:08 Norm: Unless there's a specific suggestion for how to improve the description of err:XS0005, I'm inclined to leave it. 15:20:11 No dissent heard. 15:20:27 Norm: I propose that that closes issue 163 15:20:31 Accepted. 15:21:01 Topic: Alternate CR draft, replacing "binding" with "connection" in relation to input/output ports 15:22:32 Norm explains what he did wrt replacing "binding" with "connection". 15:22:36 Vojtech: I think it's an improvement. 15:22:56 Henry: I'm in favor of the change without having looked at it. 15:23:16 Henry: It makes sense and I trust you to have gotten it nearly right, so I'm not fussed. 15:23:34 Norm: Is there anyone who wants more time? 15:23:38 None heard. 15:23:47 Norm: I propose that we adopt the alternate wording as the new status quo. 15:23:56 Accepted. 15:24:13 Vojtech: With this change, I think we should update the schemas and DTDs. 15:24:15 Norm: yes. 15:24:37 Henry: I'll fix the schemas 15:25:00 Norm: I'll fix the RELAX NG. 15:25:16 Topic: Issue 161: Concerns about forwards-compatible mode 15:25:19 Norm summarizes. 15:28:27 Henry: How likely is it that people are going to try to do this? 15:28:56 ...If it's something that's going to happen a lot is going to be compromised to allow something that isn't going to happen a lot then I'm opposed. 15:29:30 ...It seems to me that most of the benefit of what you just said would be to simply change the error from static to dynamic. 15:30:13 Norm: The wrinkle is you only get one declaration. 15:32:50 Vojtech: How would this influence the V1 pipelines. Suppose I have a V1 step and I simply use p:identity and I intentionally refer to an output port called foo. 15:32:58 Norm: That would still be an error. 15:37:34 Vojtech: If we decide to introduce some changes, this is something we can test. 15:38:08 Alex: Your saying it would be a dynamic error to evaluate a step that contains unknown children or attributes. 15:38:17 ...But your saying unknown inputs/outputs have a well-defined behavior. 15:41:09 Norm: Explains his rationale again, about the fact that there's only one declaratin. 15:41:36 Alex: That's a value judgement about how important the output is. In that case, it would be nice to know that the output was non-critical. 15:42:09 Henry: Add into the mix the fact that we have a story about what you're allowed to do without changing the name of the step. 15:42:49 ...I think Alex's observation is correct that someone may refactor the structure of a step so that the fundamental output is split across two ports. 15:43:25 ...The correct answer there is that we have to extend our notion of what amounts to a category of backwards compatible changes. 15:43:48 ...At the moment it only contains optional options, but we could extend it to include collateral inputs and outputs. 15:44:01 ...So if you're going to make a non-benign change, you must use a new step name. 15:44:29 Norm: Yes, I think that would help. 15:45:15 Henry: I think it's the usual story, Norm you should write up an editor's draft for us to review. 15:46:15 Norm: I'm tempted to delay publication of our interim CR draft by at least a week so that we can resolve this. 15:46:31 Alex: I'd prefer to resolve this first. 15:47:15 (sorry, I have to go. I have an appointment at 9am.) 15:47:25 -alexmilowski 15:47:50 Vojtech: There's the related question of what is the default version. 15:48:58 Norm: I think if you don't import a library, you get what the processor does. 15:52:04 More discussion about what to do with input/output ports 15:52:43 Norm: I'm happy to make it a dynamic error to attempt to read from the port in the V1 case, it just looks like more work. 15:53:50 ACTION: Norm to promote the alternate text draft to the status quo. 15:54:01 ACTION: Norm to produce an alternate draft with the proposed versioning changes. 15:54:05 Topic: Any other business? 15:54:20 Norm: I will be going to TPAC. 15:54:28 Norm: Welcome back Vojtech! 15:54:56 Adjourned. 15:54:59 RRSAgent, set logs world visible 15:55:00 -Ht 15:55:02 -PGrosso 15:55:02 -Vojtech 15:55:03 -Norm 15:55:04 XML_PMWG()11:00AM has ended 15:55:05 Attendees were Norm, Vojtech, Ht, PGrosso, alexmilowski 15:55:06 RRSAgent, draft minutes 15:55:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-xproc-minutes.html Norm 15:55:16 PGrosso has left #xproc 16:14:44 Norm -- I've updated xproc.{xsd,dtd} - - cvs update at your 16:14:47 convenience 16:31:48 thx 17:35:29 Zakim has left #xproc 17:51:22 alexmilowski has left #xproc 18:15:33 RRSAgent, bye 18:15:33 I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-xproc-actions.rdf : 18:15:33 ACTION: Norm to promote the alternate text draft to the status quo. [1] 18:15:33 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-xproc-irc#T15-53-50 18:15:33 ACTION: Norm to produce an alternate draft with the proposed versioning changes. [2] 18:15:33 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-xproc-irc#T15-54-01